Share Your Unpopular Barbecue Opinion

Ozzie_Isaac

Foghorn said:

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JohnInCarolina said:

Foghorn said:

SciAggie said:

Foghorn said:

When cooking brisket on the Big Green Egg, in order to cook it optimally it is important to block the rising heat really really well - on multiple levels - so that no heat rises onto the meat.  The heat has to go up the sides of the egg around the meat to the dome.  This makes the dome air hotter than the air below the brisket.  Once this is accomplished, you can cook the brisket with the FAT SIDE UP - the way it is meant to be cooked.

I am completely impressed by the amount of underlying thought that went into this comment. It was also clearly written. 

1) Thank you for noticing.  Writing medical research manuscripts and textbooks forces one to be precise in language.

2) I merged what I have learned here with the Harvard brisket cooker project to come up with my thoughts on this.
https://www.wired.com/2015/07/high-tech-bbq/#:~:text=The Harvard BBQ team spent,he is of his students.

3) To my knowledge, not a single egghead has ever adopted this view or technique even though I have mentioned it dozens of times here.

Does that include yourself?

No. I do it.

I guess I still have some work to do on my writing clarity - especially for those who intend to intentionally misinterpret.

Can one unintentionally intentionally misinterpret?

fishlessman

Foghorn said:

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SciAggie said:

Foghorn said:

When cooking brisket on the Big Green Egg, in order to cook it optimally it is important to block the rising heat really really well - on multiple levels - so that no heat rises onto the meat.  The heat has to go up the sides of the egg around the meat to the dome.  This makes the dome air hotter than the air below the brisket.  Once this is accomplished, you can cook the brisket with the FAT SIDE UP - the way it is meant to be cooked.

I am completely impressed by the amount of underlying thought that went into this comment. It was also clearly written. 

1) Thank you for noticing.  Writing medical research manuscripts and textbooks forces one to be precise in language.

2) I merged what I have learned here with the Harvard brisket cooker project to come up with my thoughts on this.
https://www.wired.com/2015/07/high-tech-bbq/#:~:text=The Harvard BBQ team spent,he is of his students.

3) To my knowledge, not a single egghead has ever adopted this view or technique even though I have mentioned it dozens of times here.

fill a wok with sand and cook the brisket over it, i used a tankend for high temp broiling.  you can actually hover a blue ball of flame over the food at high temps.  have not tried it at low temps but see it working. the round bottom redirects the heat up and outward

Botch

frazzdaddy said:

I'mn confused

Um, I don't think anyone disagrees with that.    

Foghorn

JohnInCarolina said:

show previous quotes

Foghorn said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Foghorn said:

SciAggie said:

Foghorn said:

When cooking brisket on the Big Green Egg, in order to cook it optimally it is important to block the rising heat really really well - on multiple levels - so that no heat rises onto the meat.  The heat has to go up the sides of the egg around the meat to the dome.  This makes the dome air hotter than the air below the brisket.  Once this is accomplished, you can cook the brisket with the FAT SIDE UP - the way it is meant to be cooked.

I am completely impressed by the amount of underlying thought that went into this comment. It was also clearly written. 

1) Thank you for noticing.  Writing medical research manuscripts and textbooks forces one to be precise in language.

2) I merged what I have learned here with the Harvard brisket cooker project to come up with my thoughts on this.
https://www.wired.com/2015/07/high-tech-bbq/#:~:text=The Harvard BBQ team spent,he is of his students.

3) To my knowledge, not a single egghead has ever adopted this view or technique even though I have mentioned it dozens of times here.

Does that include yourself?

No. I do it.

I guess I still have some work to do on my writing clarity - especially for those who intend to intentionally misinterpret.

LOL.  I think the lack of precision is what did you in on that one, not the clarity.

I am actually genuinely curious however as to what your setup looked like for this, and that's why I asked.  Well, in addition to wanting to poke the bear.  

Here is the setup for when I am only cooking one brisket and I am maximally blocking heat.  Sometimes I just use one layer of foil.  Note that some of these pictures were taken after a cook so I apologize for the dirty foil.


Platesetter:





Then foil (on some foil balls to create an air gap):



Then the grate:



Then some more foil on the grate:



Then the grate where the brisket will actually be cooked:

JohnInCarolina

@Foghorn - thanks.  Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?

HeavyG

Steve Raichlen should be in the BBQ Hall of Fame!



Oh wait... he already is (inducted in 2015, as was Ed Fisher).

Nevermind.

lousubcap

@Foghorn - I remember when that article first appeared.  Hard to believe it has been 5 years.  Whatever process works for you is all that matters.  

nolaegghead

There's no such thing as bad lump, just bad cooks.

Foghorn

JohnInCarolina said:

@Foghorn - thanks.  Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?

I have not.  However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...

If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.

SciAggie

Foghorn said:

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JohnInCarolina said:

@Foghorn - thanks.  Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?

I have not.  However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...

If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.

Would there be any method for comparing smoke quality high in the dome versus just above the first platesetter? That could be a contributing factor to flavor for sure. 

SonVolt

Pickle Rankings by Superiority 

1. Clausen
2. Wickles
3. Vlasic
4. Mt. Olive
5. Great Value
6. Some Paula Dean recipe your sister-in-law attempted from memory 
7. That time I accidentally canned zucchini 
8. Grillo's

JohnInCarolina

Foghorn said:

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JohnInCarolina said:

@Foghorn - thanks.  Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?

I have not.  However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...

If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.

I agree.  I am a little skeptical that this arrangement is able to *maintain* all that large of a delta over a sustained period of time, but I'd put more stock in it if I saw some data that indicated otherwise.  

nolaegghead

you forgot the best pickle:  Pickle Rick

JohnInCarolina

nolaegghead said:

you forgot the best pickle:  Pickle Rick

My kids just refer to him as “Prick” for short.  

lkapigian

HeavyG said:

Steve Raichlen should be in the BBQ Hall of Fame!



Oh wait... he already is (inducted in 2015, as was Ed Fisher).

Nevermind.

And Congratulations

Acn

This used to be a much friendlier place.

Foghorn

JohnInCarolina said:

show previous quotes

Foghorn said:

JohnInCarolina said:

@Foghorn - thanks.  Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?

I have not.  However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...

If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.

I agree.  I am a little skeptical that this arrangement is able to *maintain* all that large of a delta over a sustained period of time, but I'd put more stock in it if I saw some data that indicated otherwise.  

I'm not really looking to maintain a large - or any - real delta per se.  I'm really just trying to ensure that no heat is directly - or nearly directly - rising onto the bottom of the meat.  As long as I don't need to put the fat down to protect the meat from the heat then I'm going with the fat side up.  My guess is that there may be a 10 - 20 degree difference between what the center of the underside (cooler) of the brisket sees compared to what the top (warmer) of the brisket sees - but even if there is no difference I'm still going with the fat up.  I might even do it if the underside is 5 degrees warmer - as long as it's not going to burn.  

Foghorn

SciAggie said:

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Foghorn said:

JohnInCarolina said:

@Foghorn - thanks.  Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?

I have not.  However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...

If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.

Would there be any method for comparing smoke quality high in the dome versus just above the first platesetter? That could be a contributing factor to flavor for sure. 

That's a good question that I wouldn't even know how to answer - except maybe by cooking 2 briskets simultaneously on the 2 different levels.  Hmmm...

SciAggie

Foghorn said:

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SciAggie said:

Foghorn said:

JohnInCarolina said:

@Foghorn - thanks.  Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?

I have not.  However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...

If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.

Would there be any method for comparing smoke quality high in the dome versus just above the first platesetter? That could be a contributing factor to flavor for sure. 

That's a good question that I wouldn't even know how to answer - except maybe by cooking 2 briskets simultaneously on the 2 different levels.  Hmmm...

This might be @nolaegghead wheelhouse but here's a thought: I think liquid smoke is made by allowing water to absorb smoke and then reducing the water. What if you had two containers of water at each level and allow them to absorb smoke. Then maybe equal volumes could be compared for particle concentration? Would that give any linear comparison to flavor? Would less dense particles be more concentrated in the upper container causing a different flavor profile?
Hmmmm. We need a mass spectrometer....

SciAggie

@Foghorn Would you be willing to explain your preference for fat side up if the meat is exposed to a uniform heat source? You don't need the fat to insulate the meat in this situation. Is it a flavor preference? It seems the bark would suffer with fat side up.
I love this place and what I'm able to learn here.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Kamado cookers are never the best option for cooking anything

TEXASBGE2018

HeavyG said:

Steve Raichlen should be in the BBQ Hall of Fame!



Oh wait... he already is (inducted in 2015, as was Ed Fisher).

Nevermind.

Who is Steve Raichlen? And I didn’t know there was an actual BBQ hall
of fame......

Ozzie_Isaac

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Kamado cookers are never the best option for cooking anything

Reminds me of this story:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html

HeavyG

Ozzie_Isaac said:

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The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Kamado cookers are never the best option for cooking anything

Reminds me of this story:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html

Interesting read. Thanks for that!

Even ordered the book.

Ozzie_Isaac

HeavyG said:

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Ozzie_Isaac said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Kamado cookers are never the best option for cooking anything

Reminds me of this story:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html

Interesting read. Thanks for that!

Even ordered the book.

It is fascinating for sure, and when I first learned the story I was very surprised.  I have not read the book the excerpt is from, but have read other articles and books that reference the studies.

YukonRon

I inject brisket.

Foghorn

@SciAggie, I just like fat side up.  I've never really done a comparison cook. 

I know this:

- there's no data to support fat side up when it has been studied
- Aaron Franklin said he would cook fat side down on a kamado - but he cooks fat side up on his offset and he cooks the best brisket I've tasted.
- After touring his pits with his manager and learning this I took it as a challenge to create an environment in the egg whereby the top of the brisket would see at least as much heat as the bottom.
- This happened about the time that the Harvard project made the news which suggested I could incorporate some of their principles into my process.
- Since that time my brisket game improved significantly such that on 75% of my brisket cooks I'd put my results up there with any brisket I've ever tasted.

I don't know if having the fat up is actually important in the process - but I don't want to mess with success.

SGH

Foghorn said:

- Since that time my brisket game improved significantly such that on 75% of my brisket cooks I'd put my results up there with any brisket I've ever tasted.

And that ^^^^^^ is the only thing that matters brother horn. 

AB1234

I cut the fat cap off of my pork butts before I cook them.  You don't need it to "melt" into the pork while it cooks.

SciAggie

@Foghorn Hard to argue with that. Thanks. I can fully appreciate the “don’t mess with what works” philosophy as well.