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Comments
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Can one unintentionally intentionally misinterpret?Foghorn said:
No. I do it.JohnInCarolina said:
Does that include yourself?Foghorn said:
1) Thank you for noticing. Writing medical research manuscripts and textbooks forces one to be precise in language.SciAggie said:
I am completely impressed by the amount of underlying thought that went into this comment. It was also clearly written.Foghorn said:When cooking brisket on the Big Green Egg, in order to cook it optimally it is important to block the rising heat really really well - on multiple levels - so that no heat rises onto the meat. The heat has to go up the sides of the egg around the meat to the dome. This makes the dome air hotter than the air below the brisket. Once this is accomplished, you can cook the brisket with the FAT SIDE UP - the way it is meant to be cooked.
2) I merged what I have learned here with the Harvard brisket cooker project to come up with my thoughts on this.
https://www.wired.com/2015/07/high-tech-bbq/#:~:text=The Harvard BBQ team spent,he is of his students.
3) To my knowledge, not a single egghead has ever adopted this view or technique even though I have mentioned it dozens of times here.
I guess I still have some work to do on my writing clarity - especially for those who intend to intentionally misinterpret.I would rather light a candle than curse your darkness.
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Foghorn said:
1) Thank you for noticing. Writing medical research manuscripts and textbooks forces one to be precise in language.SciAggie said:
I am completely impressed by the amount of underlying thought that went into this comment. It was also clearly written.Foghorn said:When cooking brisket on the Big Green Egg, in order to cook it optimally it is important to block the rising heat really really well - on multiple levels - so that no heat rises onto the meat. The heat has to go up the sides of the egg around the meat to the dome. This makes the dome air hotter than the air below the brisket. Once this is accomplished, you can cook the brisket with the FAT SIDE UP - the way it is meant to be cooked.
2) I merged what I have learned here with the Harvard brisket cooker project to come up with my thoughts on this.
https://www.wired.com/2015/07/high-tech-bbq/#:~:text=The Harvard BBQ team spent,he is of his students.
3) To my knowledge, not a single egghead has ever adopted this view or technique even though I have mentioned it dozens of times here.fill a wok with sand and cook the brisket over it, i used a tankend for high temp broiling. you can actually hover a blue ball of flame over the food at high temps. have not tried it at low temps but see it working. the round bottom redirects the heat up and outward
fukahwee maineyou can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it -
"Dumplings are just noodles that have already eaten" - Jon Kung
Ogden, UT, USA
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Here is the setup for when I am only cooking one brisket and I am maximally blocking heat. Sometimes I just use one layer of foil. Note that some of these pictures were taken after a cook so I apologize for the dirty foil.JohnInCarolina said:
LOL. I think the lack of precision is what did you in on that one, not the clarity.Foghorn said:
No. I do it.JohnInCarolina said:
Does that include yourself?Foghorn said:
1) Thank you for noticing. Writing medical research manuscripts and textbooks forces one to be precise in language.SciAggie said:
I am completely impressed by the amount of underlying thought that went into this comment. It was also clearly written.Foghorn said:When cooking brisket on the Big Green Egg, in order to cook it optimally it is important to block the rising heat really really well - on multiple levels - so that no heat rises onto the meat. The heat has to go up the sides of the egg around the meat to the dome. This makes the dome air hotter than the air below the brisket. Once this is accomplished, you can cook the brisket with the FAT SIDE UP - the way it is meant to be cooked.
2) I merged what I have learned here with the Harvard brisket cooker project to come up with my thoughts on this.
https://www.wired.com/2015/07/high-tech-bbq/#:~:text=The Harvard BBQ team spent,he is of his students.
3) To my knowledge, not a single egghead has ever adopted this view or technique even though I have mentioned it dozens of times here.
I guess I still have some work to do on my writing clarity - especially for those who intend to intentionally misinterpret.
I am actually genuinely curious however as to what your setup looked like for this, and that's why I asked. Well, in addition to wanting to poke the bear.
Platesetter:
Then foil (on some foil balls to create an air gap):
Then the grate:
Then some more foil on the grate:
Then the grate where the brisket will actually be cooked:
XXL BGE, Karebecue, Klose BYC, Chargiller Akorn Kamado, Weber Smokey Mountain, Grand Turbo gasser, Weber Smoky Joe, and the wheelbarrow that my grandfather used to cook steaks from his cattle
San Antonio, TX
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@Foghorn - thanks. Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?"I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
"The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." - Deep Throat -
Steve Raichlen should be in the BBQ Hall of Fame!
Oh wait... he already is (inducted in 2015, as was Ed Fisher).
Nevermind.
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk -
@Foghorn - I remember when that article first appeared. Hard to believe it has been 5 years. Whatever process works for you is all that matters.Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. Life is too short for light/lite beer! Seems I'm livin in a transitional period. CHEETO (aka Agent Orange) makes Nixon look like a saint.
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There's no such thing as bad lump, just bad cooks.
______________________________________________I love lamp.. -
I have not. However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...JohnInCarolina said:@Foghorn - thanks. Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?
If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.XXL BGE, Karebecue, Klose BYC, Chargiller Akorn Kamado, Weber Smokey Mountain, Grand Turbo gasser, Weber Smoky Joe, and the wheelbarrow that my grandfather used to cook steaks from his cattle
San Antonio, TX
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Would there be any method for comparing smoke quality high in the dome versus just above the first platesetter? That could be a contributing factor to flavor for sure.Foghorn said:
I have not. However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...JohnInCarolina said:@Foghorn - thanks. Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?
If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
Pickle Rankings by Superiority
- Clausen
- Wickles
- Vlasic
- Mt. Olive
- Great Value
- Some Paula Dean recipe your sister-in-law attempted from memory
- That time I accidentally canned zucchini
- Grillo's
South of Nashville - BGE XL - Alfresco 42" ALXE - Alfresco Versa Burner - Sunbeam Microwave -
I agree. I am a little skeptical that this arrangement is able to *maintain* all that large of a delta over a sustained period of time, but I'd put more stock in it if I saw some data that indicated otherwise.Foghorn said:
I have not. However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...JohnInCarolina said:@Foghorn - thanks. Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?
If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information."I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
"The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." - Deep Throat -
you forgot the best pickle: Pickle Rick
______________________________________________I love lamp.. -
My kids just refer to him as “Prick” for short.nolaegghead said:you forgot the best pickle: Pickle Rick"I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
"The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand." - Deep Throat -
And CongratulationsHeavyG said:Steve Raichlen should be in the BBQ Hall of Fame!
Oh wait... he already is (inducted in 2015, as was Ed Fisher).
Nevermind.Visalia, Ca @lkapigian -
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I'm not really looking to maintain a large - or any - real delta per se. I'm really just trying to ensure that no heat is directly - or nearly directly - rising onto the bottom of the meat. As long as I don't need to put the fat down to protect the meat from the heat then I'm going with the fat side up. My guess is that there may be a 10 - 20 degree difference between what the center of the underside (cooler) of the brisket sees compared to what the top (warmer) of the brisket sees - but even if there is no difference I'm still going with the fat up. I might even do it if the underside is 5 degrees warmer - as long as it's not going to burn.JohnInCarolina said:
I agree. I am a little skeptical that this arrangement is able to *maintain* all that large of a delta over a sustained period of time, but I'd put more stock in it if I saw some data that indicated otherwise.Foghorn said:
I have not. However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...JohnInCarolina said:@Foghorn - thanks. Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?
If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.XXL BGE, Karebecue, Klose BYC, Chargiller Akorn Kamado, Weber Smokey Mountain, Grand Turbo gasser, Weber Smoky Joe, and the wheelbarrow that my grandfather used to cook steaks from his cattle
San Antonio, TX
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That's a good question that I wouldn't even know how to answer - except maybe by cooking 2 briskets simultaneously on the 2 different levels. Hmmm...SciAggie said:
Would there be any method for comparing smoke quality high in the dome versus just above the first platesetter? That could be a contributing factor to flavor for sure.Foghorn said:
I have not. However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...JohnInCarolina said:@Foghorn - thanks. Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?
If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.XXL BGE, Karebecue, Klose BYC, Chargiller Akorn Kamado, Weber Smokey Mountain, Grand Turbo gasser, Weber Smoky Joe, and the wheelbarrow that my grandfather used to cook steaks from his cattle
San Antonio, TX
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This might be @nolaegghead wheelhouse but here's a thought: I think liquid smoke is made by allowing water to absorb smoke and then reducing the water. What if you had two containers of water at each level and allow them to absorb smoke. Then maybe equal volumes could be compared for particle concentration? Would that give any linear comparison to flavor? Would less dense particles be more concentrated in the upper container causing a different flavor profile?Foghorn said:
That's a good question that I wouldn't even know how to answer - except maybe by cooking 2 briskets simultaneously on the 2 different levels. Hmmm...SciAggie said:
Would there be any method for comparing smoke quality high in the dome versus just above the first platesetter? That could be a contributing factor to flavor for sure.Foghorn said:
I have not. However, my son and I were talking about how I need to get a grate thermometer...JohnInCarolina said:@Foghorn - thanks. Have you placed a probe on the top layer of foil to check about what kind of a delta in temp you're able to obtain between the air underneath the brisket vs the dome?
If I'm going to be this stubborn about this issue I should probably have that information.
Hmmmm. We need a mass spectrometer....Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
@Foghorn Would you be willing to explain your preference for fat side up if the meat is exposed to a uniform heat source? You don't need the fat to insulate the meat in this situation. Is it a flavor preference? It seems the bark would suffer with fat side up.
I love this place and what I'm able to learn here.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
Kamado cookers are never the best option for cooking anything
Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX -
Who is Steve Raichlen? And I didn’t know there was an actual BBQ hallHeavyG said:Steve Raichlen should be in the BBQ Hall of Fame!
Oh wait... he already is (inducted in 2015, as was Ed Fisher).
Nevermind.
of fame......Rockwall, Tx LBGE, Minimax, 22" Blackstone, Pizza Party Bollore. Cast Iron Hoarder.
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Reminds me of this story:The Cen-Tex Smoker said:Kamado cookers are never the best option for cooking anything
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html
I would rather light a candle than curse your darkness.
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Interesting read. Thanks for that!Ozzie_Isaac said:
Reminds me of this story:The Cen-Tex Smoker said:Kamado cookers are never the best option for cooking anything
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html
Even ordered the book.“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk -
It is fascinating for sure, and when I first learned the story I was very surprised. I have not read the book the excerpt is from, but have read other articles and books that reference the studies.HeavyG said:
Interesting read. Thanks for that!Ozzie_Isaac said:
Reminds me of this story:The Cen-Tex Smoker said:Kamado cookers are never the best option for cooking anything
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html
Even ordered the book.I would rather light a candle than curse your darkness.
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I inject brisket."Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
@SciAggie, I just like fat side up. I've never really done a comparison cook.
I know this:
- there's no data to support fat side up when it has been studied
- Aaron Franklin said he would cook fat side down on a kamado - but he cooks fat side up on his offset and he cooks the best brisket I've tasted.
- After touring his pits with his manager and learning this I took it as a challenge to create an environment in the egg whereby the top of the brisket would see at least as much heat as the bottom.
- This happened about the time that the Harvard project made the news which suggested I could incorporate some of their principles into my process.
- Since that time my brisket game improved significantly such that on 75% of my brisket cooks I'd put my results up there with any brisket I've ever tasted.
I don't know if having the fat up is actually important in the process - but I don't want to mess with success.XXL BGE, Karebecue, Klose BYC, Chargiller Akorn Kamado, Weber Smokey Mountain, Grand Turbo gasser, Weber Smoky Joe, and the wheelbarrow that my grandfather used to cook steaks from his cattle
San Antonio, TX
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And that ^^^^^^ is the only thing that matters brother horn.Foghorn said:- Since that time my brisket game improved significantly such that on 75% of my brisket cooks I'd put my results up there with any brisket I've ever tasted.
Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.
Status- Standing by.
The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. -
I cut the fat cap off of my pork butts before I cook them. You don't need it to "melt" into the pork while it cooks.Orlando
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@Foghorn Hard to argue with that. Thanks. I can fully appreciate the “don’t mess with what works” philosophy as well.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon
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