CIDRAP Podcast on reopening schools this fall

Botch

I haven't seen or read a single thing about how the school situation has been dealt with in countries like Germany, S. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.  Has anyone here?  

JohnInCarolina

Botch said:

I haven't seen or read a single thing about how the school situation has been dealt with in countries like Germany, S. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.  Has anyone here?  

Their case loads are far far smaller than ours.  It’s a completely different picture in terms of the realistic options they have.  So they have largely been able to re-open schools, albeit with a wide array of precautions that we don’t even seem to be contemplating.

stlcharcoal

caliking said:

 

Which is also why its not as easy as telling school staff to just suck it up. If they quit as teachers (not likely), good luck finding replacements. If they get sick, school will be disrupted to varying degrees because of quarantine, contact tracing, etc. 

My whole point before was not "screw the teachers" or anything like some may have taken it. It's just what going to happen to anybody eventually that doesn't want to go back to work.

I pay five figures a year for my kids to go to private school, and I will not continue to pay that to home school them.  It's private--not union, not government controlled, not taxpayer funded, and I pay a lot of money for that freedom (over and above what I pay to the school district that my house, building, trucks, etc all sit in with my real estate and personal property taxes.) 

Why should I continue to pay that $$ to get a morning email that has some worksheets to print out and a some YouTube/Scholastic hyperlinks to have them watch.......it's 30 minutes tops (vs. 7 hrs) and it's someone else's work teaching them for FREE.  So if I and other parents start pulling our kids, there's not going to be any money for these schools to pay the teachers.  Three other private school in STL closed their doors for good already.

They have a service to provide; if they're not providing it, I'm not paying for that service (because I have to do it or pay someone else).....thus that service provider cannot afford to pay those employees.

My buddy has a restaurant that reopened in the last few weeks for curbside delivery.  They all have to wear face shields, gloves, stay apart from each other, etc, yet some employees wanted to stay home because they were uncomfortable.  They had to let them go.  It's not like they could get unemployment to stay home, and they can't just pay them to stay home--they're barely scraping by as it is.  Sucks because he lost some good people, but it's that, or go out of business for good.

No different here, and I don't want jack up the price of charcoal to pay a full time nanny/tutor for four kids on top of a private school that they haven't been to in nearly six months.  We've been getting by this long, and those boys have been boxing the online orders along with other jobs in the warehouse every afternoon.  We do worksheets every morning, but at some point they need some real schooling again.  Hopefully that starts as planned in three weeks.

Lit

alaskanassasin said:

Lit said:

ColbyLang said:

caliking said:

ColbyLang said:

My money on all of the kids in our private school system home by Oct 1 for continued distance learning. One teacher or student will contract the virus and they’ll shut it all down.

it’s unfortunate because while I know what I “taught” my son for 4.5 months, I know I didn’t get my money’s worth!!

I think schools will try some kind of containment strategy, i.e. if a teacher or student tests positive, that section/class will stay at home for X days and then return. 

For whatever reasons, daycares have skirted this burning question/issue about staying open. They’re similar to schools. Caliprince hasn’t been to his since March, but its been open the whole time, except for 1 week. 

Are daycares contributing to the spread of COVID in TX? Maybe. Current data has not demonstrated that (yet), but that could change. 

My 5 and 3 year olds just reopened for the summer session. Temp check upon arrival and throughout the day. Static group all day, no shared recess or even multiple groups of kids on playground on same day. 

Private school has a very detailed plan on reopening under phase 2, if we don’t backslide here in Louisiana. These kids need to go back to school. The sanity of mothers and fathers everywhere depend on it!

Its funny people are using temperature as a gauge. I'm fairly sure my household has it right now and the highest my temp ever got was 99.5. Neither of my children have gotten over 100 and that was only for the first day or so we are all at 98.6 range now. I still have a cough, headache, and back pain between my shoulder blades that is going on 8 days now but zero temp. My son is bad enough he has had to use a nebulizer the last 2 nights in the middle of the night and his oxygen was down to 93 at one point and no fever at all. If you look online there are many reports of just a mild fever or no fever at all.

July 25

Cooked a couple st louis. Like 70/30 dominator sweet rib rub and bad byrons. Drank some beers with my neighbor.

glad we are not neighbors 

Do you know something the CDC doesnt? I thought i was being pretty responsible quarantining several days longer than the CDC recommends even with a negative test in our household. I am also glad you are not my neighbor.

EggNorth

I just read a local article where they interviewed kids on on-line learning.  One said they learned absolutely nothing because as they are doing the work, the answers are being texted so they just copy it.

My fist thought was, turn off the phone.  But then realized that it’s more harm than any virus to remove a phone from a young person, so then I agreed,  they learn nothing at home.

Best to get the schools to open and let the teachers deal with the phone, not that can do much about it there either.

lousubcap

Here's a link to episode 17 on reopening schools:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/podcasts-webinars/episode-17  

pgprescott

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

what about the millions of kids that have been in daycare facilities for months now as they have been deemed essential? Should they all go home? Just want them to be safe of course. How have they not all been in ICU by now? Something just doesn’t add up but I can’t put my finger on it. Huh? 

In the podcast Osterholm actually talks about how the little kids haven't been the engine of infection we'd normally expect during say a typical influenza season.  Did you listen to it?

It wasn’t a serious question John. The serious question is why one would expect school environment to be any different? Does the virus spread from child to adult? Did he point out that the mortality for children is FAR greater with normal influenza? Have the daycare workers been rushed to the ICU? Fear is powerful. Are all the teachers currently quarantined at home? Have they all been diligent in their protocols? If not, why are they not All sick already? What is the actual number of cases in US? Not just the ones confirmed by testing. I’m just very glad my kids are through school. We are totally screwing them. 

JohnInCarolina

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

what about the millions of kids that have been in daycare facilities for months now as they have been deemed essential? Should they all go home? Just want them to be safe of course. How have they not all been in ICU by now? Something just doesn’t add up but I can’t put my finger on it. Huh? 

In the podcast Osterholm actually talks about how the little kids haven't been the engine of infection we'd normally expect during say a typical influenza season.  Did you listen to it?

It wasn’t a serious question John. The serious question is why one would expect school environment to be any different? Does the virus spread from child to adult? Did he point out that the mortality for children is FAR greater with normal influenza? Have the daycare workers been rushed to the ICU? Fear is powerful. Are all the teachers currently quarantined at home? Have they all been diligent in their protocols? If not, why are they not All sick already? What is the actual number of cases in US? Not just the ones confirmed by testing. I’m just very glad my kids are through school. We are totally screwing them. 

Well, I would suggest maybe giving the podcast a listen.  

alaskanassasin

Do what you want @lit. According to your post your household was rocking fevers, low oxygen, coughs, back pains, headaches and 4 days later your drinking beers with your neighbor.  Just a observation.

Gulfcoastguy

caliking said:

This is an emotionally, politically, and economically charged issue. 

I'm not that worried about the kids. Non-FaceBook sourced data suggests that infection, transmission, morbidity, mortality are far far lower in kids, especially younger than 10yo. Higher in 10-19yo, but still way lower than in the age groups higher than that. 

I am concerned about the teachers and staff though. They're adults, and much more likely to be infected, transmit it, get sick, die from it than the kids. Per the CIDRAP podcasts, almost 50% (can't recall exactly) or more of school teachers are >40yo. If for nothing else, their safety needs to be considered because there aint no school happening if there isn't any staff to make it happen. 

Which is also why its not as easy as telling school staff to just suck it up. If they quit as teachers (not likely), good luck finding replacements. If they get sick, school will be disrupted to varying degrees because of quarantine, contact tracing, etc. 

But, yes, daycares may have shown that its not all doom and gloom. Scads of daycares have been open through all of this, and their kids and staff seem to have done pretty well. If we could cut through all of the crap re: drinking bleach, hydroxychloroquine, people's medical conditions and rights that preclude wearing a mask, etc. maybe the govt will think its useful to study why/how COVID didn't blow up in daycares. 

Well I can’t be sure why. In February both my niece and her husband were pretty sick but got over whatever it was. So maybe she was immune at that point? Anyhow except for a week the preschool that she and my sister run has been open and none of her other teachers have been diagnosed with Covid. I do know that for security purposes no adult who doesn’t work there comes into the building. Teachers pick the students up at the vehicles in the circular drive and reverse the process in the evening. They are also pretty fanatic about cleaning the building and teaching the kids when and how to wash up. They have thermometers and if a kid has a fever they can’t stay. Since the majority of the kids parents are medical workers the kids have to have someplace to stay, to learn, and to eat. They are inspected frequently by the State licensing agency and the health department. The same is going to apply to school age children. There are many non wealthy single parents. Kids under 12 can’t legally be left in supervised and at 12 can be left for only 4 hours. Anyhow for context their preschool has over 100 students.

pgprescott

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

what about the millions of kids that have been in daycare facilities for months now as they have been deemed essential? Should they all go home? Just want them to be safe of course. How have they not all been in ICU by now? Something just doesn’t add up but I can’t put my finger on it. Huh? 

In the podcast Osterholm actually talks about how the little kids haven't been the engine of infection we'd normally expect during say a typical influenza season.  Did you listen to it?

It wasn’t a serious question John. The serious question is why one would expect school environment to be any different? Does the virus spread from child to adult? Did he point out that the mortality for children is FAR greater with normal influenza? Have the daycare workers been rushed to the ICU? Fear is powerful. Are all the teachers currently quarantined at home? Have they all been diligent in their protocols? If not, why are they not All sick already? What is the actual number of cases in US? Not just the ones confirmed by testing. I’m just very glad my kids are through school. We are totally screwing them. 

Well, I would suggest maybe giving the podcast a listen.  

Nah. Drivel. 

Lit

alaskanassasin said:

Do what you want @lit. According to your post your household was rocking fevers, low oxygen, coughs, back pains, headaches and 4 days later your drinking beers with your neighbor.  Just a observation.

4 days is pretty long considering 10 days is the total length from symptom start to being able to go back out in public. Also there was almost no fever if you read my original post and it only lasted like a day so we had been without fevers for 10 days or so. And i mentioned in my post it had already been 8 days so a simple google tells you I was days past the CDC recommendation on how long to quarantine. 

caliking

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

what about the millions of kids that have been in daycare facilities for months now as they have been deemed essential? Should they all go home? Just want them to be safe of course. How have they not all been in ICU by now? Something just doesn’t add up but I can’t put my finger on it. Huh? 

In the podcast Osterholm actually talks about how the little kids haven't been the engine of infection we'd normally expect during say a typical influenza season.  Did you listen to it?

It wasn’t a serious question John. The serious question is why one would expect school environment to be any different? Does the virus spread from child to adult? Did he point out that the mortality for children is FAR greater with normal influenza? Have the daycare workers been rushed to the ICU? Fear is powerful. Are all the teachers currently quarantined at home? Have they all been diligent in their protocols? If not, why are they not All sick already? What is the actual number of cases in US? Not just the ones confirmed by testing. I’m just very glad my kids are through school. We are totally screwing them. 

Well, I would suggest maybe giving the podcast a listen.  

Nah. Drivel. 

simple minds?

JohnInCarolina

Lit said:

alaskanassasin said:

Do what you want @lit. According to your post your household was rocking fevers, low oxygen, coughs, back pains, headaches and 4 days later your drinking beers with your neighbor.  Just a observation.

4 days is pretty long considering 10 days is the total length from symptom start to being able to go back out in public. Also there was almost no fever if you read my original post and it only lasted like a day so we had been without fevers for 10 days or so. And i mentioned in my post it had already been 8 days so a simple google tells you I was days past the CDC recommendation on how long to quarantine. 

Did you tell your neighbor that you'd been sick and were fairly certain that your family had the covid?  

Lit

JohnInCarolina said:

Lit said:

alaskanassasin said:

Do what you want @lit. According to your post your household was rocking fevers, low oxygen, coughs, back pains, headaches and 4 days later your drinking beers with your neighbor.  Just a observation.

4 days is pretty long considering 10 days is the total length from symptom start to being able to go back out in public. Also there was almost no fever if you read my original post and it only lasted like a day so we had been without fevers for 10 days or so. And i mentioned in my post it had already been 8 days so a simple google tells you I was days past the CDC recommendation on how long to quarantine. 

Did you tell your neighbor that you'd been sick and were fairly certain that your family had the covid?  

Yes our children play all the time so they had been almost 2 weeks without playing. He also knows my son who had the worst symptoms tested negative. My symptoms started on a Monday and testing results take so long to get back unless you are showing issues that i decided to just quarantine until the next Friday which is 12 plus days which is what I did. 

caliking

@stlcharcoal my previous post wasn't directed at you in particular (which is why I didn't tag you, or quote yours), as I've heard others express similar thoughts.

I wholeheartedly agree that kids need to be back in school. For educational, social, developmental, and other reasons. All that will be moot , if school staff are not considered in the equation. Compromise the staff, and it will impact all aspects of schooling.

And its obvious that teaching and education are not like other businesses. As are healthcare, police, fire, and other public services. Private education is not a public service. That's a choice that parents make. If you're not happy about that service being provided, then you have options to exercise.  

FWIW, caliprince will go back to school, and the school folks are trying to make that happen. They are being as diligent as they can re: keeping the best interests of students, teachers, parents in mind.  I'm both humbled, and appreciative,  that they are. 

caliking

Botch said:

I haven't seen or read a single thing about how the school situation has been dealt with in countries like Germany, S. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.  Has anyone here?  

I heard on NPR about a plan at a German school(s), to open and test students weekly.This was 1-2 months ago.  It was a study supported by private and govt funding. Sounded far too sensible to ever work or be considered here. 

pgprescott

caliking said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

what about the millions of kids that have been in daycare facilities for months now as they have been deemed essential? Should they all go home? Just want them to be safe of course. How have they not all been in ICU by now? Something just doesn’t add up but I can’t put my finger on it. Huh? 

In the podcast Osterholm actually talks about how the little kids haven't been the engine of infection we'd normally expect during say a typical influenza season.  Did you listen to it?

It wasn’t a serious question John. The serious question is why one would expect school environment to be any different? Does the virus spread from child to adult? Did he point out that the mortality for children is FAR greater with normal influenza? Have the daycare workers been rushed to the ICU? Fear is powerful. Are all the teachers currently quarantined at home? Have they all been diligent in their protocols? If not, why are they not All sick already? What is the actual number of cases in US? Not just the ones confirmed by testing. I’m just very glad my kids are through school. We are totally screwing them. 

Well, I would suggest maybe giving the podcast a listen.  

Nah. Drivel. 

simple minds?

Go ahead and address the questions. All you guys do is fear monger and cherry pick. 

Do the children infect the adults?

 Is there a single documented case? 

Has there been serious outbreaks at the child care facilities that are all over the place and far less regulated? 

it’s real easy to throw out a general statement like “compromise the staff” which is meaningless and vague. Intentionally so in believe. These people have been “compromised” for six months now. 

It’s sad. The damage done by the fear mongering is monumental. It’s infuriating and I’m not even affected by it at all. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be in the muck. 

Wish you and your family all the best. It says all I need to hear that you personally are sending your child to his school. End of story. 

ColbyLang

caliking said:

Botch said:

I haven't seen or read a single thing about how the school situation has been dealt with in countries like Germany, S. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.  Has anyone here?  

I heard on NPR about a plan at a German school(s), to open and test students weekly.This was 1-2 months ago.  It was a study supported by private and govt funding. Sounded far too sensible to ever work or be considered here. 

I’m all for it, my son goes to private school. My health insurance will cover the majority of it. What kind of return are we getting on these tests? Rapids? They have a pretty poor success rate. 3-5 day results in a lab?? There has to be an improved test option for this to work here. 

Im with @stlcharcoal, and probably many others on here that pay for private education. I paid the last 4 months of last year and didn’t get my money’s worth. I am not a teacher. I own a wholesale bakery. I can school some kids on that, but not day to day educational needs. 

pgprescott

@stlcharcoal is on to something. All we need to do is cut off the public funding of those doing nothing for six months such as judges, DMV, administrators, dept. heads etc and there will be solutions galore. Why are we paying real estate taxes for services not rendered?

ColbyLang

pgprescott said:

@stlcharcoal is on to something. All we need to do is cut off the public funding of those doing nothing for six months such as judges, DMV, administrators, dept. heads etc and there will be solutions galore. Why are we paying real estate taxes for services not rendered?

Their answer will be the same as it is now; there’s a pandemic. 

My son’s private catholic school got PPP. They sent home a long letter in April about how we had to keep paying tuition in order to keep paying the teachers. So, what did they do with my money???

pgprescott

ColbyLang said:

pgprescott said:

@stlcharcoal is on to something. All we need to do is cut off the public funding of those doing nothing for six months such as judges, DMV, administrators, dept. heads etc and there will be solutions galore. Why are we paying real estate taxes for services not rendered?

Their answer will be the same as it is now; there’s a pandemic. 

My son’s private catholic school got PPP. They sent home a long letter in April about how we had to keep paying tuition in order to keep paying the teachers. So, what did they do with my money???

I also wonder if opinions would change if they were one of the many who’s livelihood has been taken by full force of the government. Again, I have been very lucky and did not apply for any PPP or have we been negatively affected in any substantial manner, but there are plenty who have been wronged. It’s criminal for these governors to treat rural areas with the same standard as crowded metropolitan areas. Shameful. 

nolaegghead

https://www.macon.com/news/coronavirus/article244158667.html

caliking

pgprescott said:

caliking said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

what about the millions of kids that have been in daycare facilities for months now as they have been deemed essential? Should they all go home? Just want them to be safe of course. How have they not all been in ICU by now? Something just doesn’t add up but I can’t put my finger on it. Huh? 

In the podcast Osterholm actually talks about how the little kids haven't been the engine of infection we'd normally expect during say a typical influenza season.  Did you listen to it?

It wasn’t a serious question John. The serious question is why one would expect school environment to be any different? Does the virus spread from child to adult? Did he point out that the mortality for children is FAR greater with normal influenza? Have the daycare workers been rushed to the ICU? Fear is powerful. Are all the teachers currently quarantined at home? Have they all been diligent in their protocols? If not, why are they not All sick already? What is the actual number of cases in US? Not just the ones confirmed by testing. I’m just very glad my kids are through school. We are totally screwing them. 

Well, I would suggest maybe giving the podcast a listen.  

Nah. Drivel. 

simple minds?

Go ahead and address the questions. All you guys do is fear monger and cherry pick. 

Do the children infect the adults?

 Is there a single documented case? 

Has there been serious outbreaks at the child care facilities that are all over the place and far less regulated? 

it’s real easy to throw out a general statement like “compromise the staff” which is meaningless and vague. Intentionally so in believe. These people have been “compromised” for six months now. 

It’s sad. The damage done by the fear mongering is monumental. It’s infuriating and I’m not even affected by it at all. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be in the muck. 

Wish you and your family all the best. It says all I need to hear that you personally are sending your child to his school. End of story. 

You exemplify why we continue to stumble about trying to get a handle on this. 

My choice to send my kid to school, is based on critical review of available data. I've seen a few memes and FB posts purporting to be that, but a little voice told me look beyond those sources. It may have been nola, but I dunno. 

ColbyLang

pgprescott said:

ColbyLang said:

pgprescott said:

@stlcharcoal is on to something. All we need to do is cut off the public funding of those doing nothing for six months such as judges, DMV, administrators, dept. heads etc and there will be solutions galore. Why are we paying real estate taxes for services not rendered?

Their answer will be the same as it is now; there’s a pandemic. 

My son’s private catholic school got PPP. They sent home a long letter in April about how we had to keep paying tuition in order to keep paying the teachers. So, what did they do with my money???

I also wonder if opinions would change if they were one of the many who’s livelihood has been taken by full force of the government. Again, I have been very lucky and did not apply for any PPP or have we been negatively affected in any substantial manner, but there are plenty who have been wronged. It’s criminal for these governors to treat rural areas with the same standard as crowded metropolitan areas. Shameful. 

My bakery was deemed essential. We are in every sense of the word, a factory. Our business was down 48% in April and nearly 80% in May. Restaurants are my customers. We’re still down, but open. We used the PPP and didn’t lay-off or furlough anyone. We cut our personal salaries back to help offset the costs. We haven’t been wronged, but plenty of my customers have, both locally and regionally

JohnInCarolina

The animosity in this country that gets directed towards public school teachers, principals, school superintendents, etc., is not something I think I'll ever be able to understand.  

pgprescott

JohnInCarolina said:

The animosity in this country that gets directed towards public school teachers, principals, school superintendents, etc., is not something I think I'll ever be able to understand.  

I’m not sure what you are talking about? I’ve heard of animosity towards the teachers unions, but not generally individuals. There are always exceptions. 

 I do feel we need to stop have a two tiered system of economics. Private sector gets treated one way and public another. Just treat everyone the same and we will be able to work together toward COMMON interests. 

pgprescott

caliking said:

pgprescott said:

caliking said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

what about the millions of kids that have been in daycare facilities for months now as they have been deemed essential? Should they all go home? Just want them to be safe of course. How have they not all been in ICU by now? Something just doesn’t add up but I can’t put my finger on it. Huh? 

In the podcast Osterholm actually talks about how the little kids haven't been the engine of infection we'd normally expect during say a typical influenza season.  Did you listen to it?

It wasn’t a serious question John. The serious question is why one would expect school environment to be any different? Does the virus spread from child to adult? Did he point out that the mortality for children is FAR greater with normal influenza? Have the daycare workers been rushed to the ICU? Fear is powerful. Are all the teachers currently quarantined at home? Have they all been diligent in their protocols? If not, why are they not All sick already? What is the actual number of cases in US? Not just the ones confirmed by testing. I’m just very glad my kids are through school. We are totally screwing them. 

Well, I would suggest maybe giving the podcast a listen.  

Nah. Drivel. 

simple minds?

Go ahead and address the questions. All you guys do is fear monger and cherry pick. 

Do the children infect the adults?

 Is there a single documented case? 

Has there been serious outbreaks at the child care facilities that are all over the place and far less regulated? 

it’s real easy to throw out a general statement like “compromise the staff” which is meaningless and vague. Intentionally so in believe. These people have been “compromised” for six months now. 

It’s sad. The damage done by the fear mongering is monumental. It’s infuriating and I’m not even affected by it at all. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be in the muck. 

Wish you and your family all the best. It says all I need to hear that you personally are sending your child to his school. End of story. 

You exemplify why we continue to stumble about trying to get a handle on this. 

My choice to send my kid to school, is based on critical review of available data. I've seen a few memes and FB posts purporting to be that, but a little voice told me look beyond those sources. It may have been nola, but I dunno. 

Typical. Nothing. 

Well, I accept your critical review and think we all should follow your carefully considered example. I just hope your decision doesn’t put the staff at risk. I’d hate to have you compromise the staff by sending your child to school. I’m sure you agree, you said as much earlier.  

YukonRon

Maybe, just maybe I am looking at the schooling issue in the wrong light.

Around here, we close school for the protection of our children, educators and staff to predictions of bad weather.

However, with a deadly virus, 150,000 lives lost thus far, we decide to experiment with the lives of our children, educators and staff.

Infections are spreading exponentially. Anyone want to predict what is going to happen?

JohnInCarolina

Interesting that Canada is expecting to open their schools in the fall.  Of course, their daily case counts and death totals are a fraction of ours.  I wonder what they got so right that we got so wrong?