CIDRAP Podcast on reopening schools this fall

JohnInCarolina

RockyTopDW said:

 I’m doing my part and wearing a mask, but tend to think this is being sensationalized by the media.  

The world over?  You tend to think that the media in the US are in cahoots with those in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, and Asia?

caliking

RockyTopDW said:

I can’t help but think that after the election, whatever the result, the Covid hysteria will die down.  I fear the economic results more than the results of the virus.  We can’t sustain the current plan of indefinitely closing down businesses. I’m doing my part and wearing a mask, but tend to think this is being sensationalized by the media.  

Well, that's easy then. Have the election this week, and let's get it all over with. I, for one, will be much relieved. 

RockyTopDW

The death count is 150,000.  The population of this country is a little over 320 million. There is debate that the death count is inaccurate.  Multiple sources online have stated that someone with Covid that dies of non-Covid reasons is still considered a Covid death.  I hope this isn’t true.  If it is, how can realistic data be attained?  If it is accurate & true, we have less than .001% chance of dying.  It’s easy to say someone else should shut down their business to stop the spread, when you’re not directly affected. The repercussions of that are far riskier than the virus. 

Legume

Well, shoot.  People debate of the earth is flat or astronauts really landed on the moon too.

Cut the number in half.  Cut it in half again.  Take whatever discount you want off, it’s still too high.

You see, this is the problem, we argue about it and it gets worse.  We split hairs and we can’t take a coordinated and disciplined approach.  If we had been able to do that back in, say March, April, even May.  We wouldn’t be listening to vague arguments about the repercussions being much riskier.  At some point we have to take our medicine, suck it up. The economy is likely already going to be f’d for a while, at least here in the US.

Legume

And consider this, if it’s really not that big of a deal, it’s all overblown by the media, why are some people so focused on blaming this on China?

JohnInCarolina

RockyTopDW said:

The death count is 150,000.  The population of this country is a little over 320 million. There is debate that the death count is inaccurate.  Multiple sources online have stated that someone with Covid that dies of non-Covid reasons is still considered a Covid death.  

Multiple sources online?  Who are we talking about here, exactly?  Is this something you saw on Facebook or like GatewayPundit?

JohnInCarolina

If anything, we have likely grossly undercounted the deaths from the pandemic.  

dmourati

I'll share my family's view on reopening schools and how we are thinking about it in the hopes it will bring this thread more on topic.

We both work and have a 4yo son who has been home with us since early March.

His preschool is open and has been for most of July.

He's scheduled to attend another preschool beginning in August but they are closed and remaining closed for the foreseeable future. We're meeting with them in a town hall format later this week.

What has made this situation tenable for us has been a policy at my work that allows me to work part time and to continue with full pay. That is extremely generous of my employer and will forever hold them in my highest esteem.

My wife's firm is similarly generous but not quite so formalized about their policy.

We each work ~5 hours per day and take shifts with our 4yo. I take the morning shift, we eat lunch together as a family, and my wife watches him in the afternoon.

It has been a really wonderful experience to spend this much time with him.  We've been hiking, biking, and staying socially distanced. He wears a mask as best he can and we have gotten into a sort of routine that seems sustainable.

Looming in our minds now are the educational challenges. At first, we were focused solely on health and isolation. As this has worn on, we have adapted and learned. We feel ill-equipped to teach a young child and and worried about the long term effects of social isolation and lack of structured education and play.

Still, on balance, our plan is to continue on at home. If there are other parents in a similar situation, I'd love to hear how you have been thinking about balancing work with shelter in place and involuntary home schooling. We are trying many things but as yet have no real handle on what we will do for the coming months for our son's education and learning.

JohnInCarolina

By the way, you don’t calculate risk of death by taking the percentage of the *total population* who have died.  You need to use the number of people *infected* in the denominator.  

caliking

RockyTopDW said:

The death count is 150,000.  The population of this country is a little over 320 million. There is debate that the death count is inaccurate.  Multiple sources online have stated that someone with Covid that dies of non-Covid reasons is still considered a Covid death.  I hope this isn’t true.  If it is, how can realistic data be attained?  If it is accurate & true, we have less than .001% chance of dying.  It’s easy to say someone else should shut down their business to stop the spread, when you’re not directly affected. The repercussions of that are far riskier than the virus. 

Source(s)? 

The death count is indeed inaccurate. It’s underreported, i.e more have died of COVID than has been reported. E.g. deaths occurring at home are often missed in county/state numbers. 

But, you’re right that you have an infinitesimal risk of dying. Feel free to test that out, and get back to us. 

I assume you won’t  expect any healthcare, etc. if you or yours fall ill? Since the COVID business is a hoax, right? 

nolaegghead

Some good observations here.  Also there is some evidence of tin foil hat wearing fools.

Canugghead

What's the big deal, I'm a shopaholic and visit big box stores 5 days a week, 7 hours at a time 

Legume

nolaegghead said:

Some good observations here.  Also there is some evidence of tin foil hat wearing fools.

All I could find is aluminium.

pgprescott

nolaegghead said:

Some good observations here.  Also there is some evidence of tin foil hat wearing fools.

Me thinks you should go back and muddle around with a bunch of your friends in your shop or on your fishing boat or wherever during an outbreak, all the while scolding others online in a drunken stupor about their behavior because you are scared for your spouse that works in the medical community. 

Oh wait, you already have done that. Who’s the fools?

pgprescott

Canugghead said:

What's the big deal, I'm a shopaholic and visit big box stores 5 days a week, 7 hours at a time 

How long does it take to catch the virus? 

pgprescott

JohnInCarolina said:

By the way, you don’t calculate risk of death by taking the percentage of the *total population* who have died.  You need to use the number of people *infected* in the denominator.  

Telll me again just how many have been infected? Is it ten million more than the official count? Is it 100 million more than the official count? Is it an accurate count? I noticed that none of the usual suspects answers any of the questions posed with the exception of where Johns kids go to school, but rather they just call you stupid. Well done. 

Btw. You got it right, they basically count the total population that have died. We had one die of a heart attack and he was counted. Sad thing is he was never treated the day before due to COVID hysteria and diagnosis bias. But he tested positive as the results came back. 

JohnInCarolina

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

By the way, you don’t calculate risk of death by taking the percentage of the *total population* who have died.  You need to use the number of people *infected* in the denominator.  

Telll me again just how many have been infected? Is it ten million more than the official count? Is it 100 million more than the official count? Is it an accurate count? I noticed that none of the usual suspects answers any of the questions posed with the exception of where Johns kids go to school, but rather they just call you stupid. Well done. 

Tell me again why anyone here should engage you in good faith?  You didn’t come in here to discuss the podcast - you dismissed it as drivel, without even listening to it!  You’re just in here throwing rocks, and the sad thing is you have no idea how much you’re embarrassing yourself in the process.

Good day, sir.

Legume

I think Pete said he had Covid a few months back but never got tested.  Not sure how to count that.

pgprescott

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

By the way, you don’t calculate risk of death by taking the percentage of the *total population* who have died.  You need to use the number of people *infected* in the denominator.  

Telll me again just how many have been infected? Is it ten million more than the official count? Is it 100 million more than the official count? Is it an accurate count? I noticed that none of the usual suspects answers any of the questions posed with the exception of where Johns kids go to school, but rather they just call you stupid. Well done. 

Tell me again why anyone here should engage you in good faith?  You didn’t come in here to discuss the podcast - you dismissed it as drivel, without even listening to it!  You’re just in here throwing rocks, and the sad thing is you have no idea how much you’re embarrassing yourself in the process.

Good day, sir.

You once again don’t answer any tough questions because either the answers embarrass you or you realize they don’t fit your perspective. That’s all.

 I continue to be impressed by the certainty with which the experts have and continue to be catastrophically wrong though. equally impressed at the willingness for people to follow the advice of said experts without any simple critical thought. 

Good day to you also, Sir!!😂

FarmingPhD

caliking said:

RockyTopDW said:

The death count is 150,000.  The population of this country is a little over 320 million. There is debate that the death count is inaccurate.  Multiple sources online have stated that someone with Covid that dies of non-Covid reasons is still considered a Covid death.  I hope this isn’t true.  If it is, how can realistic data be attained?  If it is accurate & true, we have less than .001% chance of dying.  It’s easy to say someone else should shut down their business to stop the spread, when you’re not directly affected. The repercussions of that are far riskier than the virus. 

Source(s)? 

The death count is indeed inaccurate. It’s underreported, i.e more have died of COVID than has been reported. E.g. deaths occurring at home are often missed in county/state numbers. 

But, you’re right that you have an infinitesimal risk of dying. Feel free to test that out, and get back to us. 

I assume you won’t  expect any healthcare, etc. if you or yours fall ill? Since the COVID business is a hoax, right? 

Ok - a lot of respect for you caliking- but you can’t call BS on some one asking for a source and then make a claim on deaths without a source of your own.  Maybe you got one.

I agree the numbers are messed up, So let’s be honest with each other and say none of Us knows the answer.   

I think we can all agree that this is a bad situation with no one right answer, as many have stated. Individual situations need different approaches, not even going to call them solutions because I don’t personally think there is a solution as I typically think a solution is a ~perfect answer.

I think I’m going to order Olsterholm’s book Deadliest Enemy this week and see if I can get read over the next month.

JohnInCarolina

FarmingPhD said:

caliking said:

RockyTopDW said:

The death count is 150,000.  The population of this country is a little over 320 million. There is debate that the death count is inaccurate.  Multiple sources online have stated that someone with Covid that dies of non-Covid reasons is still considered a Covid death.  I hope this isn’t true.  If it is, how can realistic data be attained?  If it is accurate & true, we have less than .001% chance of dying.  It’s easy to say someone else should shut down their business to stop the spread, when you’re not directly affected. The repercussions of that are far riskier than the virus. 

Source(s)? 

The death count is indeed inaccurate. It’s underreported, i.e more have died of COVID than has been reported. E.g. deaths occurring at home are often missed in county/state numbers. 

But, you’re right that you have an infinitesimal risk of dying. Feel free to test that out, and get back to us. 

I assume you won’t  expect any healthcare, etc. if you or yours fall ill? Since the COVID business is a hoax, right? 

Ok - a lot of respect for you caliking- but you can’t call BS on some one asking for a source and then make a claim on deaths without a source of your own.  Maybe you got one.

I agree the numbers are messed up, So let’s be honest with each other and say none of Us knows the answer.   

I think we can all agree that this is a bad situation with no one right answer, as many have stated. Individual situations need different approaches, not even going to call them solutions because I don’t personally think there is a solution as I typically think a solution is a ~perfect answer.

I think I’m going to order Olsterholm’s book Deadliest Enemy this week and see if I can get read over the next month.

Here's a decent article that explains the undercounting:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/01/official-us-coronavirus-death-toll-is-a-substantial-undercount-of-actual-tally-new-yale-study-finds.html

In principle I agree with you - nobody knows the "true number" of deaths, down to for example +- 1 person.  But we can make a very good estimate based on the data we have, certainly one that is accurate enough to inform policy decisions.  

ColbyLang

JohnInCarolina said:

FarmingPhD said:

caliking said:

RockyTopDW said:

The death count is 150,000.  The population of this country is a little over 320 million. There is debate that the death count is inaccurate.  Multiple sources online have stated that someone with Covid that dies of non-Covid reasons is still considered a Covid death.  I hope this isn’t true.  If it is, how can realistic data be attained?  If it is accurate & true, we have less than .001% chance of dying.  It’s easy to say someone else should shut down their business to stop the spread, when you’re not directly affected. The repercussions of that are far riskier than the virus. 

Source(s)? 

The death count is indeed inaccurate. It’s underreported, i.e more have died of COVID than has been reported. E.g. deaths occurring at home are often missed in county/state numbers. 

But, you’re right that you have an infinitesimal risk of dying. Feel free to test that out, and get back to us. 

I assume you won’t  expect any healthcare, etc. if you or yours fall ill? Since the COVID business is a hoax, right? 

Ok - a lot of respect for you caliking- but you can’t call BS on some one asking for a source and then make a claim on deaths without a source of your own.  Maybe you got one.

I agree the numbers are messed up, So let’s be honest with each other and say none of Us knows the answer.   

I think we can all agree that this is a bad situation with no one right answer, as many have stated. Individual situations need different approaches, not even going to call them solutions because I don’t personally think there is a solution as I typically think a solution is a ~perfect answer.

I think I’m going to order Olsterholm’s book Deadliest Enemy this week and see if I can get read over the next month.

Here's a decent article that explains the undercounting:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/01/official-us-coronavirus-death-toll-is-a-substantial-undercount-of-actual-tally-new-yale-study-finds.html

In principle I agree with you - nobody knows the "true number" of deaths, down to for example +- 1 person.  But we can make a very good estimate based on the data we have, certainly one that is accurate enough to inform policy decisions.  

The problem is the “Covid bounty” these coroners and morgues are getting per body on the death tolls. History/Science has proven that people, if rewarded (correctly or incorrectly) will continue to repeat the behavior. Even if they have to lie to get that result. Ring the bell Pavlov. The science is garbage at best on the math. 

Funny enough, I agree with all of you. Everyone is personally, professionally and emotionally involved. No one has a clear picture of any of it, no one knows who to trust.  

caliking

FarmingPhD said:

caliking said:

RockyTopDW said:

The death count is 150,000.  The population of this country is a little over 320 million. There is debate that the death count is inaccurate.  Multiple sources online have stated that someone with Covid that dies of non-Covid reasons is still considered a Covid death.  I hope this isn’t true.  If it is, how can realistic data be attained?  If it is accurate & true, we have less than .001% chance of dying.  It’s easy to say someone else should shut down their business to stop the spread, when you’re not directly affected. The repercussions of that are far riskier than the virus. 

Source(s)? 

The death count is indeed inaccurate. It’s underreported, i.e more have died of COVID than has been reported. E.g. deaths occurring at home are often missed in county/state numbers. 

But, you’re right that you have an infinitesimal risk of dying. Feel free to test that out, and get back to us. 

I assume you won’t  expect any healthcare, etc. if you or yours fall ill? Since the COVID business is a hoax, right? 

Ok - a lot of respect for you caliking- but you can’t call BS on some one asking for a source and then make a claim on deaths without a source of your own.  Maybe you got one.

I agree the numbers are messed up, So let’s be honest with each other and say none of Us knows the answer.   

I think we can all agree that this is a bad situation with no one right answer, as many have stated. Individual situations need different approaches, not even going to call them solutions because I don’t personally think there is a solution as I typically think a solution is a ~perfect answer.

I think I’m going to order Olsterholm’s book Deadliest Enemy this week and see if I can get read over the next month.

You're absolutely right. My bad. Thank you for pointing that out.

For national data and international data, I check the CDC and Johns Hopkins sites:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

The CDC also had a site that tracked hospitalizations nationwide, which I thought was more important to follow. But hospitalization data was being reported from only  a consortium of about a dozen hospitals around the country, so it wasn't as useful as I initially thought it would be. 

JohnInCarolina

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

FarmingPhD said:

caliking said:

RockyTopDW said:

The death count is 150,000.  The population of this country is a little over 320 million. There is debate that the death count is inaccurate.  Multiple sources online have stated that someone with Covid that dies of non-Covid reasons is still considered a Covid death.  I hope this isn’t true.  If it is, how can realistic data be attained?  If it is accurate & true, we have less than .001% chance of dying.  It’s easy to say someone else should shut down their business to stop the spread, when you’re not directly affected. The repercussions of that are far riskier than the virus. 

Source(s)? 

The death count is indeed inaccurate. It’s underreported, i.e more have died of COVID than has been reported. E.g. deaths occurring at home are often missed in county/state numbers. 

But, you’re right that you have an infinitesimal risk of dying. Feel free to test that out, and get back to us. 

I assume you won’t  expect any healthcare, etc. if you or yours fall ill? Since the COVID business is a hoax, right? 

Ok - a lot of respect for you caliking- but you can’t call BS on some one asking for a source and then make a claim on deaths without a source of your own.  Maybe you got one.

I agree the numbers are messed up, So let’s be honest with each other and say none of Us knows the answer.   

I think we can all agree that this is a bad situation with no one right answer, as many have stated. Individual situations need different approaches, not even going to call them solutions because I don’t personally think there is a solution as I typically think a solution is a ~perfect answer.

I think I’m going to order Olsterholm’s book Deadliest Enemy this week and see if I can get read over the next month.

Here's a decent article that explains the undercounting:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/01/official-us-coronavirus-death-toll-is-a-substantial-undercount-of-actual-tally-new-yale-study-finds.html

In principle I agree with you - nobody knows the "true number" of deaths, down to for example +- 1 person.  But we can make a very good estimate based on the data we have, certainly one that is accurate enough to inform policy decisions.  

The problem is the “Covid bounty” these coroners and morgues are getting per body on the death tolls. History/Science has proven that people, if rewarded (correctly or incorrectly) will continue to repeat the behavior. Even if they have to lie to get that result. Ring the bell Pavlov. The science is garbage at best on the math. 

Yeah.  I've yet to see any compelling evidence that this kind of thing is actually inflating the death tolls in a statistically meaningful way.  But if you have a link to a study that suggests otherwise, I am always willing to read.  

What we see with this pandemic in the US is that confirmation bias is alive and well.  Folks will accept just about any explanation to rationalize away the reality that our country pissed away the last five months.  

I must say that as someone who interacts with scientists and mathematicians who are working overtime on the pandemic on a daily basis, the blanket statement that the "science is garbage at best on the math" is really fairly breathtaking.  It's a throwaway line that's easy to make and belies the fact that you don't have much insight into either the science or the math.  

Canugghead

pgprescott said:

Canugghead said:

What's the big deal, I'm a shopaholic and visit big box stores 5 days a week, 7 hours at a time 

How long does it take to catch the virus? 

Seriously? Ask yourself (see below)

How often and how long do you visit big box stores? 7hr/5d like kids in school?

pgprescott said:

YukonRon said:

Maybe, just maybe I am looking at the schooling issue in the wrong light.

Around here, we close school for the protection of our children, educators and staff to predictions of bad weather.

However, with a deadly virus, 150,000 lives lost thus far, we decide to experiment with the lives of our children, educators and staff.

Infections are spreading exponentially. Anyone want to predict what is going to happen?

We have pretty good evidence and it suggest the risk is extremely low. For the kids it’s waaay lower than the regular seasonal flu. For the staff, the risk of transmission from child to adult is non existent. So we are talking about just the adult to adult transmission. Seems manageable to me. No greater than any other part of life. Far less than a trip to a big box store. But then again, I’m not deranged and hysterically frightened. 

Legume

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

By the way, you don’t calculate risk of death by taking the percentage of the *total population* who have died.  You need to use the number of people *infected* in the denominator.  

Telll me again just how many have been infected? Is it ten million more than the official count? Is it 100 million more than the official count? Is it an accurate count? I noticed that none of the usual suspects answers any of the questions posed with the exception of where Johns kids go to school, but rather they just call you stupid. Well done. 

Tell me again why anyone here should engage you in good faith?  You didn’t come in here to discuss the podcast - you dismissed it as drivel, without even listening to it!  You’re just in here throwing rocks, and the sad thing is you have no idea how much you’re embarrassing yourself in the process.

Good day, sir.

You once again don’t answer any tough questions because either the answers embarrass you or you realize they don’t fit your perspective. That’s all.

 I continue to be impressed by the certainty with which the experts have and continue to be catastrophically wrong though. equally impressed at the willingness for people to follow the advice of said experts without any simple critical thought. 

Good day to you also, Sir!!😂

I think the problem is that some people expect certainty from predictions.  If we had a pandemic every few years, I could see how we could maybe expect to be better at this.   But they’re very rare and this is a new to us virus, these are complex biological systems.  So, I don’t think it’s as much about being right vs wrong, it’s about risk management and not being too wrong in the wrong direction (eg bad outcomes).  It also means that you have to continuously assess and adjust your strategy.

As with most things, we take measured risks but we try to err on the side of safety.  

Why is that so unacceptable here?

Economy?  If we had taken a conservative, disciplined approach, school and bar reopening may not have been the hot topic it is today.  But here we are.  Arguing about counting and taking the bait when the president says our scientists have been wrong about some things, clearly not understanding the situation.

Lit

Legume said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

By the way, you don’t calculate risk of death by taking the percentage of the *total population* who have died.  You need to use the number of people *infected* in the denominator.  

Telll me again just how many have been infected? Is it ten million more than the official count? Is it 100 million more than the official count? Is it an accurate count? I noticed that none of the usual suspects answers any of the questions posed with the exception of where Johns kids go to school, but rather they just call you stupid. Well done. 

Tell me again why anyone here should engage you in good faith?  You didn’t come in here to discuss the podcast - you dismissed it as drivel, without even listening to it!  You’re just in here throwing rocks, and the sad thing is you have no idea how much you’re embarrassing yourself in the process.

Good day, sir.

You once again don’t answer any tough questions because either the answers embarrass you or you realize they don’t fit your perspective. That’s all.

 I continue to be impressed by the certainty with which the experts have and continue to be catastrophically wrong though. equally impressed at the willingness for people to follow the advice of said experts without any simple critical thought. 

Good day to you also, Sir!!😂

I think the problem is that some people expect certainty from predictions.  If we had a pandemic every few years, I could see how we could maybe expect to be better at this.   But they’re very rare and this is a new to us virus, these are complex biological systems.  So, I don’t think it’s as much about being right vs wrong, it’s about risk management and not being too wrong in the wrong direction (eg bad outcomes).  It also means that you have to continuously assess and adjust your strategy.

As with most things, we take measured risks but we try to err on the side of safety.  

Why is that so unacceptable here?

Economy?  If we had taken a conservative, disciplined approach, school and bar reopening may not have been the hot topic it is today.  But here we are.  Arguing about counting and taking the bait when the president says our scientists have been wrong about some things, clearly not understanding the situation.

No its all Trumps fault he should have known exactly what to do 

Legume

Lit said:

Legume said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

By the way, you don’t calculate risk of death by taking the percentage of the *total population* who have died.  You need to use the number of people *infected* in the denominator.  

Telll me again just how many have been infected? Is it ten million more than the official count? Is it 100 million more than the official count? Is it an accurate count? I noticed that none of the usual suspects answers any of the questions posed with the exception of where Johns kids go to school, but rather they just call you stupid. Well done. 

Tell me again why anyone here should engage you in good faith?  You didn’t come in here to discuss the podcast - you dismissed it as drivel, without even listening to it!  You’re just in here throwing rocks, and the sad thing is you have no idea how much you’re embarrassing yourself in the process.

Good day, sir.

You once again don’t answer any tough questions because either the answers embarrass you or you realize they don’t fit your perspective. That’s all.

 I continue to be impressed by the certainty with which the experts have and continue to be catastrophically wrong though. equally impressed at the willingness for people to follow the advice of said experts without any simple critical thought. 

Good day to you also, Sir!!😂

I think the problem is that some people expect certainty from predictions.  If we had a pandemic every few years, I could see how we could maybe expect to be better at this.   But they’re very rare and this is a new to us virus, these are complex biological systems.  So, I don’t think it’s as much about being right vs wrong, it’s about risk management and not being too wrong in the wrong direction (eg bad outcomes).  It also means that you have to continuously assess and adjust your strategy.

As with most things, we take measured risks but we try to err on the side of safety.  

Why is that so unacceptable here?

Economy?  If we had taken a conservative, disciplined approach, school and bar reopening may not have been the hot topic it is today.  But here we are.  Arguing about counting and taking the bait when the president says our scientists have been wrong about some things, clearly not understanding the situation.

No its all Trumps fault he should have known exactly what to do 

Not at all @Lit.  There is an abundance of people running around saying that wearing masks and closing bars are infringing on their constitutional rights.

Legume

When it’s foggy or raining hard and you can’t see the road well, do you take a conservative approach and slow down to manage your risk, or do you mash the accelerator because FU fog, it’s my right to drive fast?

JohnInCarolina

Lit said:

Legume said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

By the way, you don’t calculate risk of death by taking the percentage of the *total population* who have died.  You need to use the number of people *infected* in the denominator.  

Telll me again just how many have been infected? Is it ten million more than the official count? Is it 100 million more than the official count? Is it an accurate count? I noticed that none of the usual suspects answers any of the questions posed with the exception of where Johns kids go to school, but rather they just call you stupid. Well done. 

Tell me again why anyone here should engage you in good faith?  You didn’t come in here to discuss the podcast - you dismissed it as drivel, without even listening to it!  You’re just in here throwing rocks, and the sad thing is you have no idea how much you’re embarrassing yourself in the process.

Good day, sir.

You once again don’t answer any tough questions because either the answers embarrass you or you realize they don’t fit your perspective. That’s all.

 I continue to be impressed by the certainty with which the experts have and continue to be catastrophically wrong though. equally impressed at the willingness for people to follow the advice of said experts without any simple critical thought. 

Good day to you also, Sir!!😂

I think the problem is that some people expect certainty from predictions.  If we had a pandemic every few years, I could see how we could maybe expect to be better at this.   But they’re very rare and this is a new to us virus, these are complex biological systems.  So, I don’t think it’s as much about being right vs wrong, it’s about risk management and not being too wrong in the wrong direction (eg bad outcomes).  It also means that you have to continuously assess and adjust your strategy.

As with most things, we take measured risks but we try to err on the side of safety.  

Why is that so unacceptable here?

Economy?  If we had taken a conservative, disciplined approach, school and bar reopening may not have been the hot topic it is today.  But here we are.  Arguing about counting and taking the bait when the president says our scientists have been wrong about some things, clearly not understanding the situation.

No its all Trumps fault he should have known exactly what to do 

I don't think it's all Trump's fault or even that anyone here is suggesting that it is.  But there do appear to be some folks here who are unwilling to accept that mistakes were made, that the government should have known better, and that there are many other Western countries who serve as a daily reminder of what could have been.