If it wasn’t real for you yet

frazzdaddy · March 2020

Wow, first I'm accused of wanting people including children to die and now increasing healthcare insurance costs. Tough week. smh

dmchicago · March 2020

This used to be a much friendlier place.
Or so I'm told.

YukonRon · March 2020

saluki2007 said:

YukonRon said:

Battleborn said:

YukonRon said:

Samuel Clements once said "There are 3 kinds of lies; Lies, Dămned Lies and statistics.

The numbers I am following are cases that have been closed, either by a patient's death, or release due to no longer carrying the virus. That number is 85% surviving, 15% dead.

That number can, and will change, drastically the longer this virus is around.

But for my money, right now, that is a statistic I choose to watch more than cases reported and updated deaths.

Currently 96% of all the cases in progress are listed as moderate...with only 4% critical, or likely to die. Those numbers change over night and in fact, the CDC and the WHO as well as the NIH with a likelyhood of 25% of the moderate cases active currently to go ctitical....and 80% of those people dying due to underlying health issues, age and other factors such as blood type and whether they are male or female.

I dunno. I hope they are wrong. Real data or not, it is being tracked.

Still, the 15% mortality rate in those numbers are skewed. Nobody is getting tested. So far in the state of Nevada, the tests are going to those in close contact with other positive tests. It is nearly impossible for new tests to be done. A lady my wife works with began feeling sick around 10 days ago. She just got a test today. She was told her results would be in in 5-7 days. Luckily she self quarantined when she began feeling sick. No telling how many people she gave it to prior.

The state just got clearance to begin producing testing methods outside of the FDA. Hopefully more tests can be done.

I get your point. In my areas of responsibilities, I also do work for the healthcare industry, we help build things like antimicrobial coatings, sanitary cleaning chemicals, and other items nobody thinks about until these events occur.

We look at a couple of indicators:

Active cases, the extent of the infected population and degree (mild vs. serious or critical)

Closed cases the actual number of recoveries vs deaths in a dynamic pandemic such as Corovid19.

Call the numbers skewed all you want but the current measured relationship of recovery versus death, is currently 85% vs. 15%.....globally. We are an international company. We have to take those numbers into account.

We understand the potential population infected is likely 3-4x more (a very conservative number) but that is an active situation.

The numbers are real, as was stated initially, these are CLOSED case comparisons, ACTIVE cases are measured separately. As they recover, or die they are added to the closed cases.

These are global numbers thus far, and yes due to the lack of leadership and action taken, we are behind the curve in the USA, so these numbers will greatly impact the ACTIVE cases, and eventually the CLOSED cases as well.

These are numbers posted. There are ACTIVE cases ongoing, the numbers you have commented on are COMPLETED cases of those recovered vs those who passed. That number will be impacted hopefully with a more forward action plan.

These numbers are constantly changing, and the total dead from this virus will surpass 20,000 today, globally.

We are well past "what should have been done" ....we are now into only... "what can be done."

Not a great way to fight a virus of this magnitude.

So did your company start ramping up production in January to help meet the demand of China and Europe while also planning to have to meet the demand in the US?

As a matter of fact, we were in good shape with inventory ahead of the curve.

We make much of this material and keep on hand the ingredients to supply.

We have doubled our shipments, and have the capacity to build and increase based on the calibration required to meet the demand.

Our resupply projections globally are good for the next 90 days, and can easily modify the production to meet demand.

JohnInCarolina · March 2020

frazzdaddy said:

Wow, first I'm accused of wanting people including children to die and now increasing healthcare insurance costs. Tough week. smh

I have to say that when I first met you in person my immediate thoughts were "Gosh this guy is an ahole!"

But then I have that reaction with everyone, so it's probably me.

YukonRon · March 2020

Battleborn said:

YukonRon said:

Battleborn said:

YukonRon said:

Samuel Clements once said "There are 3 kinds of lies; Lies, Dămned Lies and statistics.

The numbers I am following are cases that have been closed, either by a patient's death, or release due to no longer carrying the virus. That number is 85% surviving, 15% dead.

That number can, and will change, drastically the longer this virus is around.

But for my money, right now, that is a statistic I choose to watch more than cases reported and updated deaths.

Currently 96% of all the cases in progress are listed as moderate...with only 4% critical, or likely to die. Those numbers change over night and in fact, the CDC and the WHO as well as the NIH with a likelyhood of 25% of the moderate cases active currently to go ctitical....and 80% of those people dying due to underlying health issues, age and other factors such as blood type and whether they are male or female.

I dunno. I hope they are wrong. Real data or not, it is being tracked.

Still, the 15% mortality rate in those numbers are skewed. Nobody is getting tested. So far in the state of Nevada, the tests are going to those in close contact with other positive tests. It is nearly impossible for new tests to be done. A lady my wife works with began feeling sick around 10 days ago. She just got a test today. She was told her results would be in in 5-7 days. Luckily she self quarantined when she began feeling sick. No telling how many people she gave it to prior.

The state just got clearance to begin producing testing methods outside of the FDA. Hopefully more tests can be done.

I get your point. In my areas of responsibilities, I also do work for the healthcare industry, we help build things like antimicrobial coatings, sanitary cleaning chemicals, and other items nobody thinks about until these events occur.

We look at a couple of indicators:

Active cases, the extent of the infected population and degree (mild vs. serious or critical)

Closed cases the actual number of recoveries vs deaths in a dynamic pandemic such as Corovid19.

Call the numbers skewed all you want but the current measured relationship of recovery versus death, is currently 85% vs. 15%.....globally. We are an international company. We have to take those numbers into account.

We understand the potential population infected is likely 3-4x more (a very conservative number) but that is an active situation.

The numbers are real, as was stated initially, these are CLOSED case comparisons, ACTIVE cases are measured separately. As they recover, or die they are added to the closed cases.

These are global numbers thus far, and yes due to the lack of leadership and action taken, we are behind the curve in the USA, so these numbers will greatly impact the ACTIVE cases, and eventually the CLOSED cases as well.

These are numbers posted. There are ACTIVE cases ongoing, the numbers you have commented on are COMPLETED cases of those recovered vs those who passed. That number will be impacted hopefully with a more forward action plan.

These numbers are constantly changing, and the total dead from this virus will surpass 20,000 today, globally.

We are well past "what should have been done" ....we are now into only... "what can be done."

Not a great way to fight a virus of this magnitude.

In no way was I disputing or trying to minimize your numbers, I personally was just saying that total number morality is much lower than 15%. I defer the math and statistics to people much smarter, like you, than myself.

I am not smart....I quit doing math when they added like letters and stuff.

No worries, it is just we look at a different set of numbers in a different way than most to get an understanding of where we are presently and the potential of where we may need to be.

if we could figure this stuff out, I would be writing books, instead of making stinky explosions in the lab

saluki2007 · March 2020

frazzdaddy said:

saluki2007 said:

frazzdaddy said:

DoubleEgger said:

caliking said:

DoubleEgger said:

I’ve always been wary of the medical profession. This just fuels my fire.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-doctors-stockpiling-trial-coronavirus-190038095.html

somewhat surprising, given the lack of evidence that hydroxychloroquine is effective as treatment.

But I'd hold off on getting one's knickers in a bundle. How different is it from doctors writing antibiotics prescriptions for family or self? Folks can often see their doctor, or walk into almost any urgent care type of place, and leave with a prescription for antibiotics . For the right or wrong reasons. And by the way, MD's aren't the only ones writing prescriptions - NPs and PA do to.

I'd probably get some for myself if I knew it was effective. I can't really work from home, and risk exposure daily. Caliqueen stopped just short of saying she wants to burn my clothes when I get home every day.

Just hoping that whatever measures are being taken will make a difference.

I can guarantee you that I can’t go to the doctor’s office and get them to prescribe antibiotics to me just in case I might get sick. I get chronic sinus infections and they’ve laughed at me when I suggested having a “precautionary” prescription to save the cost of a doctor’s visit.

Prescribing medicine to people who don’t need it has jailed a lot of doctors. Think opioid epidemic.

Agree. Might be hit or miss. Last two times I've been to different urgent care facilities for flu like symptoms, I have been offered "just in case". I turned them down as I wasn't that sick and didn't have test results yet.

And that's why our health insurance is so expensive. If you weren't that sick then don't go to the hospital/urgent care.

OK one more time. This time read slowly. I was sick, but w/o knowing if they would help I was not about to take antibiotics "just in case".

I turned them down as I wasn't that sick and didn't have test results yet.

fishlessman · March 2020

so if you had a bottle of hydroxychloroquine in your med cabinet, would you dispose of it or keep it

GATraveller · March 2020

fishlessman said:

so if you had a bottle of hydroxychloroquine in your med cabinet, would you dispose of it or keep it

Test it in the Koi pond first to see how they respond.

fishlessman · March 2020

GATraveller said:

fishlessman said:

so if you had a bottle of hydroxychloroquine in your med cabinet, would you dispose of it or keep it

Test it in the Koi pond first to see how they respond.

200 mg prescription, enough to make you dizzy

The Cen-Tex Smoker · March 2020

It’s definitely gotten real for us. It appears janell’s sister has it- she is a hospice nurse working with the most compromised among us. She’s had one mask to use for the last
month that she had to Lysol between patients.

Symptoms are mild so far but she has them all

Botch · March 2020

One thing that keeps nagging at me, based on Gov. Cuomo's rant yesterday (he got 4,000 ventilators, and needed 30,000; "YOU come and choose who gets one!")
What happens when a medical staff has to choose who gets a ventilator, and a patient's spouse, or son, is screaming in the lobby and brandishing his AR-15?

And before you poo-poo this scenario, consider:
a) our actions, as a nation, regarding something as simple as TP, and
b) it's already sorta happened; a person in a Salt Lake City hospital, less than a week ago, threatened to blow the place up if they didn't give him a CV test.
This could get very, very ugly....

frazzdaddy · March 2020

saluki2007 said:

frazzdaddy said:

saluki2007 said:

frazzdaddy said:

DoubleEgger said:

caliking said:

DoubleEgger said:

I’ve always been wary of the medical profession. This just fuels my fire.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-doctors-stockpiling-trial-coronavirus-190038095.html

somewhat surprising, given the lack of evidence that hydroxychloroquine is effective as treatment.

But I'd hold off on getting one's knickers in a bundle. How different is it from doctors writing antibiotics prescriptions for family or self? Folks can often see their doctor, or walk into almost any urgent care type of place, and leave with a prescription for antibiotics . For the right or wrong reasons. And by the way, MD's aren't the only ones writing prescriptions - NPs and PA do to.

I'd probably get some for myself if I knew it was effective. I can't really work from home, and risk exposure daily. Caliqueen stopped just short of saying she wants to burn my clothes when I get home every day.

Just hoping that whatever measures are being taken will make a difference.

I can guarantee you that I can’t go to the doctor’s office and get them to prescribe antibiotics to me just in case I might get sick. I get chronic sinus infections and they’ve laughed at me when I suggested having a “precautionary” prescription to save the cost of a doctor’s visit.

Prescribing medicine to people who don’t need it has jailed a lot of doctors. Think opioid epidemic.

Agree. Might be hit or miss. Last two times I've been to different urgent care facilities for flu like symptoms, I have been offered "just in case". I turned them down as I wasn't that sick and didn't have test results yet.

And that's why our health insurance is so expensive. If you weren't that sick then don't go to the hospital/urgent care.

OK one more time. This time read slowly. I was sick, but w/o knowing if they would help I was not about to take antibiotics "just in case".

I turned them down as I wasn't that sick and didn't have test results yet.

Subjective term. 101.2 congested for 2 days. I don't visit the dr. very often. If you are going to judge me pay attn. Read the whole thing for comprehension.

johnnyp · March 2020

DoubleEgger said:

caliking said:

DoubleEgger said:

I’ve always been wary of the medical profession. This just fuels my fire.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-doctors-stockpiling-trial-coronavirus-190038095.html

somewhat surprising, given the lack of evidence that hydroxychloroquine is effective as treatment.

But I'd hold off on getting one's knickers in a bundle. How different is it from doctors writing antibiotics prescriptions for family or self? Folks can often see their doctor, or walk into almost any urgent care type of place, and leave with a prescription for antibiotics . For the right or wrong reasons. And by the way, MD's aren't the only ones writing prescriptions - NPs and PA do to.

I'd probably get some for myself if I knew it was effective. I can't really work from home, and risk exposure daily. Caliqueen stopped just short of saying she wants to burn my clothes when I get home every day.

Just hoping that whatever measures are being taken will make a difference.

I can guarantee you that I can’t go to the doctor’s office and get them to prescribe antibiotics to me just in case I might get sick. I get chronic sinus infections and they’ve laughed at me when I suggested having a “precautionary” prescription to save the cost of a doctor’s visit.

Prescribing medicine to people who don’t need it has jailed a lot of doctors. Think opioid epidemic.

Unfortunately he’s right. Maybe your primary care physician won’t, but there is a ton of Med express places that will do what ever you want.

Last year, I had a sinus infection. Went to an urgent care so I wouldn’t have to wait a few days to see my dr. They saw me and, in addition to a course of antibiotics, prescribed by an additional round of antibiotics “just in case”, codeine “so I could could sleep with a cough” and a steroid “in case i got bronchitis”.

I needed one prescription and dude wrote 4, including an opiate, all unprompted. They’re cowboys, man.

Eoin · March 2020

Battleborn said:

YukonRon said:

Battleborn said:

YukonRon said:

Samuel Clements once said "There are 3 kinds of lies; Lies, Dămned Lies and statistics.

The numbers I am following are cases that have been closed, either by a patient's death, or release due to no longer carrying the virus. That number is 85% surviving, 15% dead.

That number can, and will change, drastically the longer this virus is around.

But for my money, right now, that is a statistic I choose to watch more than cases reported and updated deaths.

Currently 96% of all the cases in progress are listed as moderate...with only 4% critical, or likely to die. Those numbers change over night and in fact, the CDC and the WHO as well as the NIH with a likelyhood of 25% of the moderate cases active currently to go ctitical....and 80% of those people dying due to underlying health issues, age and other factors such as blood type and whether they are male or female.

I dunno. I hope they are wrong. Real data or not, it is being tracked.

Still, the 15% mortality rate in those numbers are skewed. Nobody is getting tested. So far in the state of Nevada, the tests are going to those in close contact with other positive tests. It is nearly impossible for new tests to be done. A lady my wife works with began feeling sick around 10 days ago. She just got a test today. She was told her results would be in in 5-7 days. Luckily she self quarantined when she began feeling sick. No telling how many people she gave it to prior.

The state just got clearance to begin producing testing methods outside of the FDA. Hopefully more tests can be done.

I get your point. In my areas of responsibilities, I also do work for the healthcare industry, we help build things like antimicrobial coatings, sanitary cleaning chemicals, and other items nobody thinks about until these events occur.

We look at a couple of indicators:

Active cases, the extent of the infected population and degree (mild vs. serious or critical)

Closed cases the actual number of recoveries vs deaths in a dynamic pandemic such as Corovid19.

Call the numbers skewed all you want but the current measured relationship of recovery versus death, is currently 85% vs. 15%.....globally. We are an international company. We have to take those numbers into account.

We understand the potential population infected is likely 3-4x more (a very conservative number) but that is an active situation.

The numbers are real, as was stated initially, these are CLOSED case comparisons, ACTIVE cases are measured separately. As they recover, or die they are added to the closed cases.

These are global numbers thus far, and yes due to the lack of leadership and action taken, we are behind the curve in the USA, so these numbers will greatly impact the ACTIVE cases, and eventually the CLOSED cases as well.

These are numbers posted. There are ACTIVE cases ongoing, the numbers you have commented on are COMPLETED cases of those recovered vs those who passed. That number will be impacted hopefully with a more forward action plan.

These numbers are constantly changing, and the total dead from this virus will surpass 20,000 today, globally.

We are well past "what should have been done" ....we are now into only... "what can be done."

Not a great way to fight a virus of this magnitude.

In no way was I disputing or trying to minimize your numbers, I personally was just saying that total number morality is much lower than 15%. I defer the math and statistics to people much smarter, like you, than myself.

The maths side is worrying, and I don't think we are being told everything. If 5% of people need ICU and the capacity here (UK) is 50,000 beds with the additions, that means only 1 m people at a time can afford to have the virus. 80% resistant means 50 m people need to catch it and get antibodies. Dependant on ICU time per person, that's a very long time to 'flatten the curve'.

JohnInCarolina · March 2020

DoubleEgger · March 2020

johnnyp said:

DoubleEgger said:

caliking said:

DoubleEgger said:

I’ve always been wary of the medical profession. This just fuels my fire.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-doctors-stockpiling-trial-coronavirus-190038095.html

somewhat surprising, given the lack of evidence that hydroxychloroquine is effective as treatment.

But I'd hold off on getting one's knickers in a bundle. How different is it from doctors writing antibiotics prescriptions for family or self? Folks can often see their doctor, or walk into almost any urgent care type of place, and leave with a prescription for antibiotics . For the right or wrong reasons. And by the way, MD's aren't the only ones writing prescriptions - NPs and PA do to.

I'd probably get some for myself if I knew it was effective. I can't really work from home, and risk exposure daily. Caliqueen stopped just short of saying she wants to burn my clothes when I get home every day.

Just hoping that whatever measures are being taken will make a difference.

I can guarantee you that I can’t go to the doctor’s office and get them to prescribe antibiotics to me just in case I might get sick. I get chronic sinus infections and they’ve laughed at me when I suggested having a “precautionary” prescription to save the cost of a doctor’s visit.

Prescribing medicine to people who don’t need it has jailed a lot of doctors. Think opioid epidemic.

Unfortunately he’s right. Maybe your primary care physician won’t, but there is a ton of Med express places that will do what ever you want.

Last year, I had a sinus infection. Went to an urgent care so I wouldn’t have to wait a few days to see my dr. They saw me and, in addition to a course of antibiotics, prescribed by an additional round of antibiotics “just in case”, codeine “so I could could sleep with a cough” and a steroid “in case i got bronchitis”.

I needed one prescription and dude wrote 4, including an opiate, all unprompted. They’re cowboys, man.

Apparently I’ve been doing it all wrong going to reputable doctors. I try to stay away from the “doc in the box” places.

GATraveller · March 2020

Botch said:

One thing that keeps nagging at me, based on Gov. Cuomo's rant yesterday (he got 4,000 ventilators, and needed 30,000; "YOU come and choose who gets one!")
What happens when a medical staff has to choose who gets a ventilator, and a patient's spouse, or son, is screaming in the lobby and brandishing his AR-15? And before you poo-poo this scenario, consider:
a) our actions, as a nation, regarding something as simple as TP, and
b) it's already sorta happened; a person in a Salt Lake City hospital, less than a week ago, threatened to blow the place up if they didn't give him a CV test.
This could get very, very ugly....

I want to poo-poo this scenario but ANYTHING can happen when SHTF. The way people reacted to TP was INSANE and totally unnecessary.

DoubleEgger · March 2020

GATraveller said:

Botch said:

One thing that keeps nagging at me, based on Gov. Cuomo's rant yesterday (he got 4,000 ventilators, and needed 30,000; "YOU come and choose who gets one!")
What happens when a medical staff has to choose who gets a ventilator, and a patient's spouse, or son, is screaming in the lobby and brandishing his AR-15? And before you poo-poo this scenario, consider:
a) our actions, as a nation, regarding something as simple as TP, and
b) it's already sorta happened; a person in a Salt Lake City hospital, less than a week ago, threatened to blow the place up if they didn't give him a CV test.
This could get very, very ugly....

I want to poo-poo this scenario but ANYTHING can happen when SHTF. The way people reacted to TP was INSANE and totally unnecessary.

Popeyes Chicken Sandwich says “Hold My Beer!” to the toilet paper crowd.

YukonRon · March 2020

Botch said:

One thing that keeps nagging at me, based on Gov. Cuomo's rant yesterday (he got 4,000 ventilators, and needed 30,000; "YOU come and choose who gets one!")
What happens when a medical staff has to choose who gets a ventilator, and a patient's spouse, or son, is screaming in the lobby and brandishing his AR-15? And before you poo-poo this scenario, consider:
a) our actions, as a nation, regarding something as simple as TP, and
b) it's already sorta happened; a person in a Salt Lake City hospital, less than a week ago, threatened to blow the place up if they didn't give him a CV test.
This could get very, very ugly....

The gov here in Kentucky has called up the National Guard to be posted around all hospitals to maintain civility in the processing of Covid19.

The police are positioned around grocery stores all day, also to maintain order.

All parks are closed in Louisville, to soccer, softball/baseball, and basketball. All non essential business has been shuttered.

Driving through Downtown today on my way back from a research evaluation facility, in Indiana, there was very few people out, and what was usually a 1.5 drive home due to traffic, was less than 45 mins.

I64 through Louisville was an autobahn, I was doing 80 to get out of the way of others.

Legume · March 2020

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

It’s definitely gotten real for us. It appears janell’s sister has it- she is a hospice nurse working with the most compromised among us. She’s had one mask to use for the last
month that she had to Lysol between patients.

Symptoms are mild so far but she has them all

Holy crap! So sorry, that’s awful - I know there are going to be so many more of these stories, but it’s scary when it starts to burst that personal bubble.

GrateEggspectations · March 2020

Botch said:

One thing that keeps nagging at me, based on Gov. Cuomo's rant yesterday (he got 4,000 ventilators, and needed 30,000; "YOU come and choose who gets one!")
What happens when a medical staff has to choose who gets a ventilator, and a patient's spouse, or son, is screaming in the lobby and brandishing his AR-15? And before you poo-poo this scenario, consider:
a) our actions, as a nation, regarding something as simple as TP, and
b) it's already sorta happened; a person in a Salt Lake City hospital, less than a week ago, threatened to blow the place up if they didn't give him a CV test.
This could get very, very ugly....

I was recently sharing similar sentiments with my father. All it would take is shortages severe enough at the grocery stores to spark unrest.

Legume · March 2020

What about the gun store owners that have to be closed, but they’re buying guns for themselves and family?

Botch · March 2020

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

It’s definitely gotten real for us. It appears janell’s sister has it- she is a hospice nurse working with the most compromised among us. She’s had one mask to use for the last
month that she had to Lysol between patients.

I sure hope Lysol "gasses off" 100%, otherwise she's breathing in those fumes and that can't be good, either!

nolaegghead · March 2020

GrateEggspectations said:

Botch said:

One thing that keeps nagging at me, based on Gov. Cuomo's rant yesterday (he got 4,000 ventilators, and needed 30,000; "YOU come and choose who gets one!")
What happens when a medical staff has to choose who gets a ventilator, and a patient's spouse, or son, is screaming in the lobby and brandishing his AR-15? And before you poo-poo this scenario, consider:
a) our actions, as a nation, regarding something as simple as TP, and
b) it's already sorta happened; a person in a Salt Lake City hospital, less than a week ago, threatened to blow the place up if they didn't give him a CV test.
This could get very, very ugly....

I was recently sharing similar sentiments with my father. All it would take is shortages severe enough at the grocery stores to spark unrest.

Glad I don't live in Canada. Hoo Lee FOOK!!!

nolaegghead · March 2020

Legume said:

What about the gun store owners that have to be closed, but they’re buying guns for themselves and family?

I'll bite. So what about them? And why do we care?

Foghorn · March 2020

Legume said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

It’s definitely gotten real for us. It appears janell’s sister has it- she is a hospice nurse working with the most compromised among us. She’s had one mask to use for the last
month that she had to Lysol between patients.

Symptoms are mild so far but she has them all

Holy crap! So sorry, that’s awful - I know there are going to be so many more of these stories, but it’s scary when it starts to burst that personal bubble.

Very sorry to hear about TFJ's sister. Hopefully she stays in the "mild" category. As long as she can breath and eat, she should stay home. At the hospital there's oxygen, IV fluids, and (hopefully) ventilators - and a lot of other sick people that you don't want your friends and family to visit - so it's even more lonely than being quarantined in many ways.

I am hopeful that here on the I-35 corridor in Austin and San Antonio we are flattening the curve, but we won't really know for another week or two. Our university/hospital just developed its own test so we have increased testing capacity here in SAT. I expect our number of known/proven cases to go up significantly over the next few days as a result. I have not heard a lot out of Austin.

saluki2007 · March 2020

frazzdaddy said:

saluki2007 said:

frazzdaddy said:

saluki2007 said:

frazzdaddy said:

DoubleEgger said:

caliking said:

DoubleEgger said:

I’ve always been wary of the medical profession. This just fuels my fire.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-doctors-stockpiling-trial-coronavirus-190038095.html

somewhat surprising, given the lack of evidence that hydroxychloroquine is effective as treatment.

But I'd hold off on getting one's knickers in a bundle. How different is it from doctors writing antibiotics prescriptions for family or self? Folks can often see their doctor, or walk into almost any urgent care type of place, and leave with a prescription for antibiotics . For the right or wrong reasons. And by the way, MD's aren't the only ones writing prescriptions - NPs and PA do to.

I'd probably get some for myself if I knew it was effective. I can't really work from home, and risk exposure daily. Caliqueen stopped just short of saying she wants to burn my clothes when I get home every day.

Just hoping that whatever measures are being taken will make a difference.

I can guarantee you that I can’t go to the doctor’s office and get them to prescribe antibiotics to me just in case I might get sick. I get chronic sinus infections and they’ve laughed at me when I suggested having a “precautionary” prescription to save the cost of a doctor’s visit.

Prescribing medicine to people who don’t need it has jailed a lot of doctors. Think opioid epidemic.

Agree. Might be hit or miss. Last two times I've been to different urgent care facilities for flu like symptoms, I have been offered "just in case". I turned them down as I wasn't that sick and didn't have test results yet.

And that's why our health insurance is so expensive. If you weren't that sick then don't go to the hospital/urgent care.

OK one more time. This time read slowly. I was sick, but w/o knowing if they would help I was not about to take antibiotics "just in case".

I turned them down as I wasn't that sick and didn't have test results yet.

Subjective term. 101.2 congested for 2 days. I don't visit the dr. very often. If you are going to judge me pay attn. Read the whole thing for comprehension.

You said you had flu like systems and went to the doctor. The doctor offered you drugs to make you better (which is why you went to the doctor right?) and you said no thanks, I'm not that sick. So either you went to the doctor to get better (drugs, which he offered) or just b/c you felt like going to the doctor for confirmation (which is a waste of the doctors time and insurance money).

BTW I'm not blaming you for per se for insurance costs. There are plenty of stupid people who goto the ER for a freaking headache.

frazzdaddy · March 2020

saluki2007 said:

frazzdaddy said:

saluki2007 said:

frazzdaddy said:

saluki2007 said:

frazzdaddy said:

DoubleEgger said:

caliking said:

DoubleEgger said:

I’ve always been wary of the medical profession. This just fuels my fire.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-doctors-stockpiling-trial-coronavirus-190038095.html

somewhat surprising, given the lack of evidence that hydroxychloroquine is effective as treatment.

But I'd hold off on getting one's knickers in a bundle. How different is it from doctors writing antibiotics prescriptions for family or self? Folks can often see their doctor, or walk into almost any urgent care type of place, and leave with a prescription for antibiotics . For the right or wrong reasons. And by the way, MD's aren't the only ones writing prescriptions - NPs and PA do to.

I'd probably get some for myself if I knew it was effective. I can't really work from home, and risk exposure daily. Caliqueen stopped just short of saying she wants to burn my clothes when I get home every day.

Just hoping that whatever measures are being taken will make a difference.

I can guarantee you that I can’t go to the doctor’s office and get them to prescribe antibiotics to me just in case I might get sick. I get chronic sinus infections and they’ve laughed at me when I suggested having a “precautionary” prescription to save the cost of a doctor’s visit.

Prescribing medicine to people who don’t need it has jailed a lot of doctors. Think opioid epidemic.

Agree. Might be hit or miss. Last two times I've been to different urgent care facilities for flu like symptoms, I have been offered "just in case". I turned them down as I wasn't that sick and didn't have test results yet.

And that's why our health insurance is so expensive. If you weren't that sick then don't go to the hospital/urgent care.

OK one more time. This time read slowly. I was sick, but w/o knowing if they would help I was not about to take antibiotics "just in case".

I turned them down as I wasn't that sick and didn't have test results yet.

Subjective term. 101.2 congested for 2 days. I don't visit the dr. very often. If you are going to judge me pay attn. Read the whole thing for comprehension.

You said you had flu like systems and went to the doctor. The doctor offered you drugs to make you better (which is why you went to the doctor right?) and you said no thanks, I'm not that sick. So either you went to the doctor to get better (drugs, which he offered) or just b/c you felt like going to the doctor for confirmation (which is a waste of the doctors time and insurance money).

BTW I'm not blaming you for per se for insurance costs. There are plenty of stupid people who goto the ER for a freaking headache.

ok, I see the disconnect now.

Antibiotics are used to treat or prevent some types of bacterial infection. They work by killing bacteria or preventing them from reproducing and spreading.
Antibiotics aren't effective against viral infections, such as the common cold, flu, most coughs and sore throats.

I had no test results yet and did not want to injest medication that would not be effective for the reasons that Carey stated in his post above.
my fault, figured everyone would know that.

saluki2007 · March 2020

Eoin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

saluki2007 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Battleborn said:

YukonRon said:

Battleborn said:

YukonRon said:

Samuel Clements once said "There are 3 kinds of lies; Lies, Dămned Lies and statistics.

The numbers I am following are cases that have been closed, either by a patient's death, or release due to no longer carrying the virus. That number is 85% surviving, 15% dead.

That number can, and will change, drastically the longer this virus is around.

But for my money, right now, that is a statistic I choose to watch more than cases reported and updated deaths.

Currently 96% of all the cases in progress are listed as moderate...with only 4% critical, or likely to die. Those numbers change over night and in fact, the CDC and the WHO as well as the NIH with a likelyhood of 25% of the moderate cases active currently to go ctitical....and 80% of those people dying due to underlying health issues, age and other factors such as blood type and whether they are male or female.

I dunno. I hope they are wrong. Real data or not, it is being tracked.

Still, the 15% mortality rate in those numbers are skewed. Nobody is getting tested. So far in the state of Nevada, the tests are going to those in close contact with other positive tests. It is nearly impossible for new tests to be done. A lady my wife works with began feeling sick around 10 days ago. She just got a test today. She was told her results would be in in 5-7 days. Luckily she self quarantined when she began feeling sick. No telling how many people she gave it to prior.

The state just got clearance to begin producing testing methods outside of the FDA. Hopefully more tests can be done.

I get your point. In my areas of responsibilities, I also do work for the healthcare industry, we help build things like antimicrobial coatings, sanitary cleaning chemicals, and other items nobody thinks about until these events occur.

We look at a couple of indicators:

Active cases, the extent of the infected population and degree (mild vs. serious or critical)

Closed cases the actual number of recoveries vs deaths in a dynamic pandemic such as Corovid19.

Call the numbers skewed all you want but the current measured relationship of recovery versus death, is currently 85% vs. 15%.....globally. We are an international company. We have to take those numbers into account.

We understand the potential population infected is likely 3-4x more (a very conservative number) but that is an active situation.

The numbers are real, as was stated initially, these are CLOSED case comparisons, ACTIVE cases are measured separately. As they recover, or die they are added to the closed cases.

These are global numbers thus far, and yes due to the lack of leadership and action taken, we are behind the curve in the USA, so these numbers will greatly impact the ACTIVE cases, and eventually the CLOSED cases as well.

These are numbers posted. There are ACTIVE cases ongoing, the numbers you have commented on are COMPLETED cases of those recovered vs those who passed. That number will be impacted hopefully with a more forward action plan.

These numbers are constantly changing, and the total dead from this virus will surpass 20,000 today, globally.

We are well past "what should have been done" ....we are now into only... "what can be done."

Not a great way to fight a virus of this magnitude.

In no way was I disputing or trying to minimize your numbers, I personally was just saying that total number morality is much lower than 15%. I defer the math and statistics to people much smarter, like you, than myself.

15% is likely way off. The best estimates I have seen have it around 1% - with the very large caveat that this is under good conditions. Still ten times worse than the standard flu, but nowhere near 15%.

But as I have made pains to point out many times before, the mortality rate is the wrong thing to focus on here. Really the problem we are facing is the hospitalization rate juxtaposed with the capacity of our critical care facilities. Because if you start to overwhelm the hospitals, that becomes the point where the mortality rate starts to rise dramatically. This is why those of us with training in math and biology were freaking out more than a month ago.

All you needed to know is how grossly understaffed and unprepared our hospitals are. You don't have to have math or biology training to know that the people who are running the hospitals have business backgrounds and not healthcare backgrounds.

I don't have any expertise in that space, but I do think an issue we have is that so many hospitals are run fairly close to capacity. Probably the business of health care in the US is a big factor there, I'm not sure.

But exponential growth of a contagion in a naive population has some fairly dire implications that largely swamp any level of preparedness of hospitals. That is the point. More open beds can buy you some time, but eventually even they get overrun.

The NHS is very financially efficient, partly because it runs close to capacity all of the time. However, being state run, it can also prioritise quickly, cancel elective procedures (stuff that won't kill you) to free up space for Covid19 patients. We also have the army putting a field hospital together in an exhibition centre in London. This will be repeated elsewhere. Are the US hospitals being told what to do, to make capacity, or just each working it out on its own?

I can't speak for the US as a whole, but I know locally they are on their own for the most part. They are getting some guidance/supplies from the state. They have been told to hold off on doing elective cases, but that is left up to the DR to decide whether a case can wait or not. My wife's friend is a CRNA in the Houston area and she works for a doctor owned hospital. They are still doing cases as yesterday they were still doing cases as if nothing was going on.

dmchicago · March 2020

Foghorn said:

I am hopeful that here on the I-35 corridor in Austin and San Antonio we are flattening the curve, but we won't really know for another week or two. Our university/hospital just developed its own test so we have increased testing capacity here in SAT. I expect our number of known/proven cases to go up significantly over the next few days as a result. I have not heard a lot out of Austin.

98 cases in Travis County (Austin). No deaths.

If it wasn’t real for you yet

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