All kidding and razzing aside what do you have against Royal Oak?

kthacher

Nanook said:

So it seems to me, after reading many, many comments on various discussions on lump, that biggest pro of RO is the cost. I have read a lot of negative comments about how long it takes for the white smoke to clear, and that it has a lot of very small pieces, and fines, which is essentially waste. If it takes longer to burn clean, and there is a lot of waste in each bag, I'm not sure that this makes it less expensive. I also read posts about SRF meat, prime briskets, and prime, and dry aged steaks. The reason we buy these more expensive meats is because the end product is so much better. The reason most of us bought an Egg in the first place is because of the end product it is capable of producing. Yet, a lot of people are concerned about spending a few dollars more for a bag of lump. I fail to see the rationale.

The "few dollars more" argument is not why I use RO.  It is because I entirely disagree with all the negative views on this product.  I hear comments like "smells like railway tiles" for RO bought from the very same chain I buy from.  I simply have never experienced this.  I get great results with RO, it is readily available to me, and I have never seen these issues with small particles and dust.  It is like I am hearing people talk about a totally different product.  So I just don't get all the hate.  

Ladeback69

I don't really hate or dislike RO, it’s like most have said it smokes more and most of my cooks are just grilling and I like Rockwood better for that reason.  I don't want to have two different types of lump to deal with.  Say I used RO for a pork butt and now I want to do chicken and want a cleaner burn.  I don't want to have to clean out the RO to put in RW.  Rockwood cost a little more, but I like it better.  If all I could get was RO, I would use it over BGE because it’s basically the same at a lower cost.  My wife or kid never complained about it being to Smokey, but we have friends that come over a lot that like things to smokey.  Now I loved it the other day when one of my neighbors lit his little charcoal grill up and all I could smell was lighter fluid, yuck.  I used to use it in old Weber Smokey Joe, when I didn't know any different.  Now I do.  Royal Oak is descent; there are just some better options out there that I like.

henapple

For those that love RO and haven't tried RW....you really don't have an educated answer. No disrespect intended. 

theyolksonyou

But, Tony, as long as they're happy, more for us!

texaswig

I like it. For the price you can't beat it. I don't have to store up a bunch. I can go get it 24/7.don't get me wrong I like OO but to me its not that much better. 

Legume

I probably need a few cocktails in me to ponder this, but how many carbon offset credits do I need to buy to ship 100 lbs of carbon across the country?

Mattman3969

I use RW because @henapple told me to!!

aukerns08

I never minded the taste I got from using RO but my wife thought it was too smokey and was ready to do away with the Egg.  I wasn't having any of that so I had to find something that we both liked or go back to the Weber Kettle and briquettes since she loved that food.  After reading the many RW reviews and finding out my Egg dealer sold it I gave it a try and she now loves it.  We both like it so I'll continue to buy it.  I don't understand the whole RO bashing by those that don't like their product however.  Just because You don't like the RO product vs another brand doesn't mean that RO is inferior.  All it really means is that you prefer one to the other, it's basically the same as taste and opinions, they're always going to be different.  My family prefers RW over RO, it doesn't mean that RW is better than RO in general, it's just better for us.  For that reason I don't bash RO I merely tell people why I use RW.

The other thing that I noticed was people claiming that they use RO over RW because of price.  I get it, price is important to a lot of people and price is important to me on a lot of things too, just not on grilling and charcoal.  My Eggs need lump, therefore I have to buy lump, I go to where I can buy the lump I prefer (my Egg dealer), ask for however many bags I want to buy, 9 out of 10 times I end up buying something else while there, pay and never really look at the receipt.  I probably couldn't tell you how much I spend on a bag of lump and even if I could it wouldn't change anything about how I buy it or what I use.  I have a lot of money invested in my Eggs, accessories, knives, BBQ toys, etc.  Not to mention how much I spend on the food to cook on it...  It would probably take me 4-5 years or more, even buying more expensive RW, to equal that investment in lump that I have in my eggs and I have to have lump to use them anyway.  If I was worried worried about grilling and charcoal cost I probably never would have bought an Egg.  You can't get much cheaper for grilling then a $100 Weber Kettle and Kingsford briquettes, Home Depot around here always has two 18 lbs bags for $20...  That's just how I look at this from the money side of things.

Grillmagic

henapple said:

For those that love RO and haven't tried RW....you really don't have an educated answer. No disrespect intended. 

 For the last two years I have use nothing but Gordon food services lump Which I believe is made by Royal Oak  and never had any complaints,  before that it was  BGE lump and actual Royal Oak from Menards it's all that I have ever used,  my BGE dealer also sells Rockwood and I guess I'm going to have to buy a couple of bags and give it a try, they sell 20 pound bags for $22 

Chowman

Just curious about Voc burn time for RO.  What do most people find optimum ?

LadyGT

I find it interesting that the majority of lump threads are about cost, size of lump and the amount of smoke it produces. Not once did anybody discuss what type of tree is used by any of the manufacturers to make the stuff. Is it oak or are other types of trees used in the mix?  If it is oak, then why are there differences in performance? Are the bags labeled telling you what you are burning? I never looked because my husband does the cooking. 

YukonRon

Legume said:

I probably need a few cocktails in me to ponder this, but how many carbon offset credits do I need to buy to ship 100 lbs of carbon across the country?

Just a matter of time, with the government wiping out coal fired power plants could lump charcoal fired cookers be next? Have a bourbon with me, and let's ponder........

Jeepster47

@YukonRon ... I hope that's not Tennessee whiskey you're partial to ... 'cuz it's filtered through charcoal.

Legume

LadyGT said:

I find it interesting that the majority of lump threads are about cost, size of lump and the amount of smoke it produces. Not once did anybody discuss what type of tree is used by any of the manufacturers to make the stuff. Is it oak or are other types of trees used in the mix?  If it is oak, then why are there differences in performance? Are the bags labeled telling you what you are burning? I never looked because my husband does the cooking. 

Some brands tell you what's in it, some seem to just say hardwoods.  Some brands I can get here offer single species bags, like oak, hickory, mesquite.  I would imagine within one brand you could tell the difference between the woods.  Across brands, I would think the quality of the raw material, the manufacturing process and the handling drive the variability more.  For instance, I saw the big 40 lb bag of Cowboy brand at Costco recently and it says oak and hickory but I would suspect it's not the same as say, RW.

Legume

@stlcharcoal does your charcoal get sold under any other brands?

henapple

Royal Oak. ...

YukonRon

Jeepster47 said:

@YukonRon ... I hope that's not Tennessee whiskey you're partial to ... 'cuz it's filtered through charcoal.

And don't forget, the charring of the inside of the barrels of which bourbon is stored!

DoubleEgger

If you're drinking Gentleman Jack, it's run through the charcoal filter twice. 

KiterTodd

Lit said:

...

Wood burning in the egg does not produce good smoke ever on a low and slow. The fire is not hot enough to burn it that's why you have to use small amounts or you get a foul taste. That foul taste is too much bad smoke. Same foul taste I got when learning to use straight wood on my other smoker when I let it smolder like the egg does. 

I thought I had it, but now you've lost me...

Just about every low and slow post talks about what kind of wood chunks people put in there.  From my experience, the wood just kind of smolders and produces smoke.  It doesn't burn with flames (unless you get a flare up when you open the top).  Different kinds of wood produce different flavors.

Your response makes it sound like we shouldn't put wood in for a low and slow.   ?



(Apologies to the lump debaters for this tangent discussion)

YukonRon

We bourbon eggers are doomed. Drunk and full (DrunkenFools) or the inevitable, loss of all things charred.

Too much to thing about. I need therapy. 

johnkitchens

I have never used RO. I have used BGE lump which is supposed to be the same thing. I didn't like the fact that it had to burn the bad smoke off. I am using RW because after work I can light the lump and cook. No waiting around. 

I am not a patient man. 

tjv

As a retailer of lump, I can say most new folks to ceramics don't understand lump charcoal.  They listen, read forums and talk to fellow bbq'ers but in the end, it's the same info being passed around.  Some of it is good info, some of it is not wrong but misleading information.

My 2 minute educational message to new ceramic grillers is simple.  Think of lump like wine.  Find a brand you like and stick with it.  Understand, like wine which changes from batch to batch, lump can change from bag to bag.  The potential changes and reasons are many:  

1.  Depending on when during the year the lump was produced the amount of water in the lump can change. This affects how much the lump sparks if lighting with a high temp torch or blower.  Also, winter bags may look fuller than summer bags, water has a weight.  There is less humidity/water in the air in winter.

 
2.  The size of lump can change from bag to bag.  Just depends mainly on from what pile and where in the pile the bag was filled.  Most producers sift the lump on screens but still variances in bags occur.

3.  If you buy from a big national lump producer, there is a better chance you can have more variations in bags.  It's not a guarantee that your store will get lump from the same kiln with each delivery.   Product from different kilns means woods can change, processes can change and so on.   Small producers will provide more consistent lump than national producers.  Same guy, same kilns firing on every batch.  RO and OO demonstrate this easily.  One reason why folks like their lump so much – consistent production.

4.  Rocks and such are just part of the process.  Lump production is a nasty process that involves front end loaders and such.  So from time to time, oddities get in a bag.

5.  Lump comes in all shapes, sizes, densities and such.  I recommend using the big dense lump brands for long cooks, not grilling.   When grilling, one of my goals is to have an even plume of heat coming off the lump.  Hard to do with big pieces as the ends of the piece may be burning and the middle is dead.

6.  If you are new to lump and find a bag with Spanish on it and know very little about the brand, best not to buy.   Good chance it is from south of the boarder which means, mesquite woods that spark a lot and/or lots of ash.  I've had bags from south of the boarder that “snowed ash” in the cooker.  All popular lump producers scramble in late summer to keep up with demand.  The big national guys go south to fill productions voids.  That equates to more uncertainty with what's in the bag.  

7.  When you dump a bag in the cooker look for partially carbonized pieces.  If you are one who watches smoke to determine when it is time to load the cooker with food, you can get fooled.  If a partially carbonized pieces burns on your start up, it will smoke, giving you false signals.  One way to check is smell the smoke.  Smells like wood, you are probably burning wood.

Just one guy’s opinions……..

t

Canugghead

LadyGT said:

I find it interesting that the majority of lump threads are about cost, size of lump and the amount of smoke it produces. Not once did anybody discuss what type of tree is used by any of the manufacturers to make the stuff. Is it oak or are other types of trees used in the mix?  If it is oak, then why are there differences in performance? Are the bags labeled telling you what you are burning? I never looked because my husband does the cooking. 

some producers have info on their wood source, for example:
http://www.greatcharcoal.com/lump.html
http://charbonbasques.com/our-products/?lang=en

stlcharcoal

Canugghead said:

LadyGT said:

I find it interesting that the majority of lump threads are about cost, size of lump and the amount of smoke it produces. Not once did anybody discuss what type of tree is used by any of the manufacturers to make the stuff. Is it oak or are other types of trees used in the mix?  If it is oak, then why are there differences in performance? Are the bags labeled telling you what you are burning? I never looked because my husband does the cooking. 

some producers have info on their wood source, for example:
http://www.greatcharcoal.com/lump.html
http://charbonbasques.com/our-products/?lang=en

Ours says 100% Missouri Hardwoods on the front, then lists Oak, Hickory,  Maple, etc on the back.  Could get some cherry or anything that's a hardwood in MO.  It's primarily oak though.  No walnut--too expense, too bitter, and kilns at a different rate than everything else since it's so dense.

If it's kilned right, you're not going to get much smoke out of it anyway--you won't be able to tell if it's oak or hickory.  Mesquite or something else pungent, maybe.

nolaegghead

man, this thread is an energizer bunny.  Guess it's like the "what do you have against 7-11 gas" thread on a car forum.

stlcharcoal

YukonRon said:

Little Steven and Lit are dead on. I think most chunks are dried before processing, and as such you will get a cleaner milder smoke for flavor. I have read this comparison on here before, and I find it gives a great explanation: wood chunks in a plastic bag is like lumber in a lumber yard, vs fresh cut wood. The smoke is less intense, and much more mild than fresh cut wood not dried in a kiln.

Leg me know if I cN be of further help.

((Looks like we're back online.....been trying to post this since yesterday and rewrote it about six times.  ARRRGH!!))

You have another group of guys that will say that the kilning kills the sugars and then you lose flavor.  Problem is that's it's more prone to have bugs and mold develop--which is why you won't see much raw wood chunks or chips in retail.  Many on the competition circuit want the raw.

I dealt in smoke woods for a few a while years ago.  One year I got the kiln dried stuff and half complained that the flavor was cooked out, the other complained about price.  The next year I got the raw wood for cheaper and the one half complained about the pungent taste, then every one that got bugs and mold. 

Different smokes for different folks I suppose.  Either way, learned my lesson to leave that business to someone else!!!  LOL

Lit

KiterTodd said:

Lit said:

...

Wood burning in the egg does not produce good smoke ever on a low and slow. The fire is not hot enough to burn it that's why you have to use small amounts or you get a foul taste. That foul taste is too much bad smoke. Same foul taste I got when learning to use straight wood on my other smoker when I let it smolder like the egg does. 

I thought I had it, but now you've lost me...

Just about every low and slow post talks about what kind of wood chunks people put in there.  From my experience, the wood just kind of smolders and produces smoke.  It doesn't burn with flames (unless you get a flare up when you open the top).  Different kinds of wood produce different flavors.

Your response makes it sound like we shouldn't put wood in for a low and slow.   ?



(Apologies to the lump debaters for this tangent discussion)

It's something I had no clue about at all until I tried to run my vertical with wood. I got a lot of wood going then shut it down where it was holding 225-250 but not burning just smoldering. 3 racks of ribs not edible. Wood needs to be on fire and stay on fire to produce clean smoke. The problem with the egg is its so well insulated you would have to keep such a small fire burning hot to keep it under 300 that you would have to add like a big chunk of wood every 30 minutes then leave the lid open to let it burn off a little then leave all vents wide open to hopefully keep the fire hot enough to keep clean smoke. I ran into something similar with my vertical its insulated well also but has a separate firebox so at least I can access it easily but I have to add a split then leave the bottom door open for 10 minutes or so then leave the other vents wide open to maintain a clean fire. The egg is fine to use wood in smaller amounts but if you add 8 large chunks to a cook you can end up with a bad taste because you got too much bad smoke. When I add a new split to my vertical even though I leave everything open I still get a little bad smoke the first couple minutes but a little won't do anything it's when it gets too much. That's from someone that is very beginning learner I would like others like @SGH or @Cazzy to chime in I am sure I am wrong somewhere it's just what I have taken in from my experience so far.

nolaegghead

@stlcharcoal  Has anyone tried (or is it prohibitively expensive) to use vacuum kilns?  You only need to heat enough to keep the water from freezing, I think microwaves can be used in this application in conjunction with the vacuum.  I'm not knowledgeable about this industry, just standard chemistry techniques.

Roadpuke0

Legume said:

@stlcharcoal does your charcoal get sold under any other brands?

Was this answered? 

Langner91

I have refrained from commenting, as all I have used is 50 pounds of RO.

But, tonight I opened my 5th bag (8#) and found it was about half uncarbonized wood and what appears to be a squirrel, or a rat.

Rocks are fine, but I was a little grossed out at the rodent remnants.