All kidding and razzing aside what do you have against Royal Oak?

stlcharcoal

EggHead_Bubba said:

I'm pretty sure @stlcharcoal has explained and debunked the "VOC" situation in other threads. I used to use Royal Oak but have switched to Rockwood. I like how Rockwood is ready faster and has lighter smoke flavor compared to Royal Oak.

I cannot really speak for everyone's charcoal because I don't know what temps they kiln at.  But generally, if they're using concrete "Missouri Kilns", it's going to be higher temp and burn all tars & liquors out of it.  Metal kilns usually cannot hit those higher temps, but maybe they do.  The other thing I have witnessed, even here in MO, is domestic manufacturers mixing in south of the border charcoal into the bags.  I recognized it immediately just based off the color and grain.  No telling how that stuff was made or what it was made out of.  Not saying it's bad, just can't vouch for it.

Generally though, yes, it's hopefully just smoke, not the nasty "VOCs" you read about.  Take a chunk of the charcoal a drop it--if it goes "thud" and stays in tact, you still have wood and it's going to smoke.  If it goes "tink", and shatters, then you have good charcoal that's probably more than 80% carbon--very little smoke.

dougcrann

I understand that some folks claim that rocks are a way of life when it comes to lump charcoal. I just opened my 12th bag of Lazzari Mesquite....not one rock yet. Also no pieces of fiberglass mat material or any other trash. It took 2 40 pound bags of the Lazzari to fill a five gallon bucket with fines. Last few bags I used of RO were nothing but fines. The Lazzari is under fifteen bucks a bag.....for 40 pounds....Will only use RO as a last resort....and truthfully may use KBB first....even in my Egg

dougcrann

RRP said:

show previous quotes

gmac said:

Ron, no comment on RO, it's ok but I prefer Maple Leaf and it's easier to get. My real question is. Why do you have 740 lbs of lump on hand?  Zombie apocalypse?

Take your pick>>>
A) because when I bought my first egg 15 years ago lump was not readily available and I had 40# to last me like 4 months so I said to myself NEVER again!

because I CAN have that much if I want!

C) because I buy lump on sale vs. run out and buy a bag at a time

D) why NOT?

E) because I happen to use A LOT of lump!

When this shortage issue gets resolved I plan on buying a pallet of the Lazzari...just need to figure out where to keep it. Nothing wrong with having a stock pile....

FlashkaBob

I bought 3 bags of RO from the local Canadian Tire. The stuff in the blue bags. 17.6 lbs each or 8Kg. The stuff was so foul smelling that I could not use it for at least an hour and usually 1.25 hrs. It was like trying to light a camp fire in a rain storm with the amount of smoke it produced. The stuff actually smelled like I was burning railway ties. There were so many VOC's, the lump would catch fire during the initial light up. I actually complained to Royal Oak about their product. They took about 6 weeks but did eventually reply with an apology for my unfortunate purchase. They could not offer an explanation as to what happened to my lump charcoal but they did offer to refund the price for the 3 bags that I experienced issues with. 2 weeks later, I received a cheque in the mail for $15.00. I couldn't buy 1 bag for that price. That price must be what Royal Oak thinks there 8KG bags shipped to Canada are worth. Maple Leaf Lump cost $1.00 more than RO so guess what my go to lump is now.

stlcharcoal

Lit said:

I tried rockwood from firecraft and bought 2 bags I used one and gave one to a buddy. It was neutral smoke but garbage lump it was all small crappy pieces. I bet I threw away 2 pounds of dust and my buddy had the same thoughts. OO is 10 times better than Rockwood in my opinion. If Rockwood was like $14 a bag I would probably use it. Way over priced IMO.

Dude you have been complaining about that ONE bag you used for over a year now.  Who knows what happened to it (and the one next two it)......maybe it FedEx beat it up, maybe something extremely heavy got set on top of the pallets on the way to PA, or maybe we screwed it up.

In any case, it's not normal.  We haven't received but 4-5 reports regarding crushed charcoal to that extent in several years and over a hundred thousand bags.  If it was typical, you could be guaranteed it would be all over this forum and reflected on TNW.  Never had anyone else call my product anything near as derogatory as "garbage lump it was all small crappy pieces".

There are bags in nearly every Ace store in ATL.  Go buy one and if it still sucks in your opinion I will personally send you a refund.  It seems like you have already made up your mind, but it's worth a shot.

4Runner

Lit said:

I tried rockwood from firecraft and bought 2 bags I used one and gave one to a buddy. It was neutral smoke but garbage lump it was all small crappy pieces. I bet I threw away 2 pounds of dust and my buddy had the same thoughts. OO is 10 times better than Rockwood in my opinion. If Rockwood was like $14 a bag I would probably use it. Way over priced IMO.

That is just shipping problem...not a lump problem. 

Dave in Florida

I have nothing against RO.  Used it many times.  I have been using Carbon Del Sur lately, so far so good with no complaints from those who have eaten my Q.

d16lee

I've only used Royal Oak after my first free bag of BGE Brand ran out.  It's always been good.  O_O and RW are too expensive for us Canadians to get.  

I just tried a 2nd cook w/ Nature's Own from Costco.  Not sure if it's the rain, but that thick smoke just wouldn't clear even after 1-1.5 hours and I still can't get all the smoke smell off.  Royal Oak typically clears after ~45min - 1 hour consistently.

SGH

stlcharcoal said:
  Go buy one and if it still sucks in your opinion I will personally send you a refund.  

I bought ten thousand bags of Rockwood and they all sucked. If you do not want to send me a cash refund, I will gladly accept ten thousand more bags of Rockwood as a refund. Either way I will be more than happy

cookingdude555

used royal oak for some boneless skinless chicken breasts tonight. it burned clean very quickly, and there was no smoke taste (cooking for kiddies). other than the wavy heat signature coming from the medium exhaust, you would have never known the egg was lit. i also used it yesterday for pulled pork, had half of the medium left afterward.  i dont understand the hate, its great lump imo.

Eggcelsior

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dougcrann

Rockwood...never seen it in the Spokane area....

stlcharcoal

dougcrann said:

I understand that some folks claim that rocks are a way of life when it comes to lump charcoal. I just opened my 12th bag of Lazzari Mesquite....not one rock yet. Also no pieces of fiberglass mat material or any other trash. It took 2 40 pound bags of the Lazzari to fill a five gallon bucket with fines. Last few bags I used of RO were nothing but fines. The Lazzari is under fifteen bucks a bag.....for 40 pounds....Will only use RO as a last resort....and truthfully may use KBB first....even in my Egg

The trees are obviously not being harvested from a rocky terrain.  Or they're harvesting the WHOLE tree for charcoal and kilning it on site.  Whereas our trees are dropped and dragged out of the forest through selective foresting (where rocks get wedged into the trees.)  The outer diameter and knotty pieces go in the reject pile at the mill, bundled, and transported to the plant.

Not directed at you, but I can't understand all the people who are surprised and outright offended.  What's the problem with a little rock?  It's not going to hurt anything and there's usually more than enough overage in the bag to supplement it's weight.  Ever had a stone in a bag of dry beans?  What about in mulch?  It's an all natural product that is being used as a fuel--you're not eating it out of the bag.  Is it really going to be worth the 5-10x the cost to have someone hand inspect every single piece that goes in a bag.  New brand......Rock[FREE]wood 

stlcharcoal

 SGH said:

show previous quotes

stlcharcoal said:
  Go buy one and if it still sucks in your opinion I will personally send you a refund.  

I bought ten thousand bags of Rockwood and they all sucked. If you do not want to send me a cash refund, I will gladly accept ten thousand more bags of Rockwood as a refund. Either way I will be more than happy

LOL.....gonna need to submit the receipt and UPC's for that. 

jollygreenegg

I'm in California and choices here are limited.  RO is the main brand here.  I personally don't have any issues with the smoke it gives out, but I do have an issue with the size of lump.  I've notice that the majority of the RO lump are small pieces (smaller than a briquette) which burns real fast.

mtbguy

I love lump post. Best reading around. And as far as RW never a problem other than some pieces won't fit in MM. Used BGE same price as RW. So that's a no brainier. 

nolaegghead

I read lump posts when I have insomnia.   Add a baseball game on the TV and I'm sleeping like a baby in a few minutes.

I agree with Ron's sentiments - which I understood as - why are people prima donnas about lump brands, esp RO? 

Learn how to start and maintain a good fire.  Some lump is more forgiving than others, but it'll all give you good food.

bgebrent

Great comment @RRP.  RO quality (size of lump) has been an issue for me. Way too many small pieces. I'm gonna try some other options.  Probably a local issue.

HeavyG

Fred19Flintstone said:

I'll burn Royal Oak when they have a NASCAR.  Until then, it's Kingsford for me!

All kidding aside, RO hasn't given me much trouble, it's inexpensive and can be found easily year round.   It's my workhorse lump.

I'ts kinda funny how often die-hard lump users will argue the merits (or lack thereof) of various brands of lump but are generally pretty much united in dissing the ole Kingsford. I understand why it's not really suitable for most kamados thus nobody here likely uses much of it. In a perfect world perhaps we would all use the finest lump money could buy (whatever that is). But...maybe not.

I remember reading a couple years ago about a nationally ranked award winning pitmaster who received a genuine, the real deal, accept no substitutes,  Wagyu A-5 grade brisket flown over from Japan (a 16 pound, $2500+/- chunk of meat). How did he deal with such a revered piece of meat? Why he cooked it on an ugly drum smoker with his fuel of choice... good ole Kingsford blue. Apparently it turned out delicious.

nolaegghead

Fred19Flintstone said:

I'll burn Royal Oak when they have a NASCAR.  Until then, it's Kingsford for me!

All kidding aside, RO hasn't given me much trouble, it's inexpensive and can be found easily year round.   It's my workhorse lump.

If that car catches on fire, will anyone notice?

Scottborasjr

Gotta agree with @HeavyG. While we all obviously have our favorite cookers, charcoal and other hard goods that make a cook easy/difficult/ etc. The right piece of meat with someone that knows what to do with it is going to be great regardless of other things. 

stlcharcoal

HeavyG said:

show previous quotes

Fred19Flintstone said:

I'll burn Royal Oak when they have a NASCAR.  Until then, it's Kingsford for me!

All kidding aside, RO hasn't given me much trouble, it's inexpensive and can be found easily year round.   It's my workhorse lump.

I'ts kinda funny how often die-hard lump users will argue the merits (or lack thereof) of various brands of lump but are generally pretty much united in dissing the ole Kingsford. I understand why it's not really suitable for most kamados thus nobody here likely uses much of it. In a perfect world perhaps we would all use the finest lump money could buy (whatever that is). But...maybe not.

I remember reading a couple years ago about a nationally ranked award winning pitmaster who received a genuine, the real deal, accept no substitutes,  Wagyu A-5 grade brisket flown over from Japan (a 16 pound, $2500+/- chunk of meat). How did he deal with such a revered piece of meat? Why he cooked it on an ugly drum smoker with his fuel of choice... good ole Kingsford blue. Apparently it turned out delicious.

America's Test Kitchen always disses lump and advises to use briquettes.  They even recommend a few matchlight ones to get the fire started.  They hate on the BGE too.  Boggles my mind as they are a pretty good resource.  I offered to send them as many bags as they wanted for testing along with whatever info they desired to reconsider their take on lump (not just Rockwood)......never heard a word from them, but got about 8 offers to renew my subscription that month.

SGH

Ron, hopefully without rambling to much, I will offer my honest opinion on the subject at hand. First let me point out that I did use RO for a year, give or take a little either way. It was and remains one of only a very few lumps available in a reasonable driving distance from my residence. Thus I used it out of convienance more so than anything else. Bare in mind that during this time frame most of my big cooks or real large cooks were done on a wood burning side fired offset or under fired unit. The BGE was mostly used for grilling or searing if you will. For grilling or searing heat applications I had no qualm with RO. Even on long indirect cooks I think it's a decent lump if you are burning clean.  But with that said, I can honestly tell a difference between RO and RW. Just as I can easily tell a difference between oak and hickory or apple and pecan etc, etc. In my opinion, RW is the most neutral lump out there by any measure. It simply burns clean from take off to touch down. This is simply not the case with RO, or at least with the RO that we get on the gulf coast. I realize that this may vary location to location but I would honestly be surprised if this was really the case.  I guess as with all things it comes down to matter of taste. Just as some people prefer baby backs over spares and vice versa, I'm sure some prefer RO over RW and vice versa. However in my case, I'm just not a huge fan of RO for long indirect cooks. I do not care for the taste that it imparts. Just as all hardwoods impart a different taste, lump does the very same. This is not personal opinion or sentiment. It's simply a fact. I prefer RW and OO over everything else that I have tried. Again, just my preference. This certainly does not mean that someone who gets the results that they are looking for with RO should change brands. I have and always will support the notion of doing or using what works best for you. Now to the question at hand: Why do people bash RO? I can't speak for everyone, but I bash it for the same reason that I bash vegetarians, dumbocrats, calorie counters and weight watchers. It's all in good fun. No ill intent at all. Just a little pot stirring if you will. 

YukonRon

The first 4 bags of lump I used with my XL was BGE. Each bag's contents seemed to be made up of about 10% dust, 5% pieces about the size of my fist, and the rest was small to very small that fell through my grate at the bottom. After every clean and reload I raked out a significant portion of small lump prior to lighting it.

It took longer to get rid of the initial heavy smoke, and the flavor was saturated with a  heavy charcoal type taste. 

Perhaps they were not typical, and perhaps you could also say learning curve to a rookie with a BGEXL. 

I do not think so. 4 bags, each were identical in content and performance.

Doing research, and asking questions in this forum, my next purchase was RW.

Based on the four bags of BGE and the first 4 from RW, the better product was RW and it was not even close. Content lump size was far superior to BGE. Dust content % was far less than BGE, easier to light, cleaner smoke, less waste. 

The first four bags of Carbon Del Sur was also superior to BGE, and the price point was much better as well.

Will I use BGE lump again? If, and only if I have no other options available to me.

I love using my egg to prepare meals. I cooked with a Weber prior, and turned out excellent food. The Weber does not compare to the food I make now on the BGEXL.

I will only go back to the Weber, if and only if, I absolutely had to.

Fred19Flintstone

Kingsford is a fine product, but is not designed for komodo cookers,  I used it exclusively when I cooked on a Weber kettle.  The Smokenator I used in the kettle for L&S operated using a set number of briquettes (18 I think).

Theophan

I'd like to ask those who prefer the more "neutral" lump if you can help me understand this better.  I've only used BGE lump, which I gather is RO, and I've been happy enough with it that I haven't had much incentive to look for other brands. RW isn't available near me, and I've never even looked to see what Wal-Mart carries.  But one of the things I have loved about cooking on the Big Green Egg is that even without any wood chips there is a subtle smoky flavor that I really like, that tastes like charcoal cooking to me. The thing I got sick of when I had a Weber gas grill for several years was that the food looked grilled, but it didn't taste grilled.  It tasted like I could have broiled it in the oven.  I LIKE the fact that when I cook a simply seasoned spatchcock chicken, for example, on my BGE/RO lump the food tastes like it was cooked over charcoal, and not just broiled.

So when I hear some of you talking about "neutral" lump and how some people prefer NO smoky flavor, it sounds like what I was trying to get AWAY from when I was using a gas grill.  I'm guessing that there's something about this that I'm misunderstanding, but that's what I want to ask about.  If you use a "neutral" lump, and add no wood chips or chunks, and the food doesn't taste smoky, how is it different from broiled or roasted in the oven?

Thanks!

Theo

theyolksonyou

@Theophan the difference is that with a neutral lump you can control the smoke profile so that if you want hickory, you get hickory only, etc...

also, I don't want my pizza to taste like charcoal. Some people bake pies, cakes  etc...

some people have a wife who doesn't like every thing tasting the same (me)

 im sure I could cook on RO if I wanted to wait for a good fire, but then I'd be relegated to only weekends because I can't wait that long during the week. 

It's good that you're happy, and I certainly don't have anything against people using RO as long as they're satisfied. Or not, it's really none of my business.

Acn

theyolksonyou said:

@Theophan the difference is that with a neutral lump you can control the smoke profile so that if you want hickory, you get hickory only, etc...

also, I don't want my pizza to taste like charcoal. Some people bake pies, cakes  etc...

some people have a wife who doesn't like every thing tasting the same (me)

 im sure I could cook on RO if I wanted to wait for a good fire, but then I'd be relegated to only weekends because I can't wait that long during the week. 

It's good that you're happy, and I certainly don't have anything against people using RO as long as they're satisfied. Or not, it's really none of my business.

I agree with all of the above.  Also, some foods really absorb smoke, like chicken or veggies, so charcoal + smoke wood of choice can overwhelm.

fishlessman

im at the point that big lump, tiny lump, nuetral lump, smokey lump, rocks in my lump, scrap flooring lump, wet lump is all good lump. just send it all to me   its weird what bothers folks, i burn the horrid cowboy lump more than any lump and its a nuetral burning lump if given the time to clear itself, takes about the same amount of time as it takes for my always wet maine egg to dry out. the lump gives off different smells at startup, ozark oak and mapleleaf smell really good in the backyard, wg comp blend is no longer available and was excessively nuetral and you could literally smell and differentiate the different odors of different smoking woods in the backyard, but cooked food off the grill it does not make as big of a difference. im betting if i used a big chunk of pecan, a smaller piece of hickory, or a pile of hickory bark which i use alot of that the vast majority wouldnt know the difference in a blind taste test and thats the same with lump once you get it burning properly

henapple

Reoccurring themes. Availability, price and performance for one group the availability, performance and price. 
When I could get OO for the same price as RO it was a no brainer. 
I've tried several bags of RW and originally was concerned about the size of the pieces. Bottom line is that it works, well. 
One thing I've yet to hear is number of cooks per bag. If you're getting 30% more cooks the price becomes more reasonable. 
How many lbs per cook...let's say 3. $1.50 more per with RW. 
Ymmv.