All kidding and razzing aside what do you have against Royal Oak?

GATraveller

Good point @henapple - I've never payed much attention to how many cooks I get per bag of lump.  
I've never used RO unless you count the bag of BGE lump that came with my original purchase.  From there I used WGWW and then on to RW.  I've stuck with RW ever since.  I use it for the neutral taste which allows me to adjust smoke with wood chunks and the minimal time from light to cook.  I've also burned thru several hundred pounds and only found 1 small foreign object and all large chunks with very little dust.
Next time I load up I guess I'll buy a bag of RO just to give it a test run.

Fred19Flintstone

I have never calculated CPB (cooks per bag) nor do I care to.  To me, that would ruin the pleasure of it all.  Nope.  I don't want to downgrade egging to an academic "story problem".  It makes the beer taste funny.

DoubleEgger

My biggest concern is the cost of what I put on the cooking grid not what goes underneath it. 

Doc_Eggerton

Nothing, I use it all the time.

Nanook

So it seems to me, after reading many, many comments on various discussions on lump, that biggest pro of RO is the cost. I have read a lot of negative comments about how long it takes for the white smoke to clear, and that it has a lot of very small pieces, and fines, which is essentially waste. If it takes longer to burn clean, and there is a lot of waste in each bag, I'm not sure that this makes it less expensive. I also read posts about SRF meat, prime briskets, and prime, and dry aged steaks. The reason we buy these more expensive meats is because the end product is so much better. The reason most of us bought an Egg in the first place is because of the end product it is capable of producing. Yet, a lot of people are concerned about spending a few dollars more for a bag of lump. I fail to see the rationale.

SkinnyV

Not a lump snob, but rock wood blows it away.
Baked some bread, I notice 0 smoke or hint I cooked it on the bge. Sold

Philly35

I used to use RO and then I switched to RW. I still have some RO sitting around. I just prefer the RW. Its nice not having to wait for the vocs to burn off and I like that it's neutral. I know we are all burning charcoal here but having to wait for the grill to get to temp/stabilize is long enough. I don't like having to wait around even longer to throw the food on because of VOCs. Kind of difficult making the wife wait till 8 for dinner. 

KiterTodd

What is a VOC and why do you let it burn off?

I think from reading posts here I typically wait until I stop seeing a heavy white smoke coming out of the egg before cooking, but that also happens to be the same amount of time until I'm ready to cook.

That said, I know I've put food on while it was still smoking white (with no wood on) and the food still tasted great.

SmyrnaGA

*Nerd alert*

I've played strategy games like civilization for years where stats, how efficient you build your kingdom wins you the game. When I started egging, I kept a cook journal of what I cooked, how I cooked it, what temp, and charcoal usage. With those stats, one of the things I came up with was a formula to estimate charcoal usage. One thing I did NOT consider was difference in charcoal brands. This formula was created using BGE, cowboy, frontier(USA), and royal oak. It's only based on the first 5 months of egging which I have not kept up to date for a few years.

Charcoal used = 1+(cooking temp in F/500)x(time of cook)

So if you cook at 350 for 7 hours, you'll use 1+(350/500)x7 or about 5.9 lbs of charcoal. 400 for 2 hours = 1+(400/500)x2 or 2.6 lbs.

Edit: This formula was created when I only have the Large Green Egg, other size eggs or cookers will have different results.

Jeepster47

OO was manufactured in a single facility, by the folks who owned the facility, utilizing material from the local forests.  It was very consistent from bag to bag.

Rockwood is also manufactured in a single facility utilizing material from the local forests.  It also has a personality that is consistent from bag to bag.

Royal Oak is the gorilla in the lump industry.  They've reduced shipping costs (and probably manufacturing costs) by buying up small facilities across the country and incorporating them into their company.  Thus, lump in the same bag can come from different trees, kilns, processes, and "kiln masters."  In our area, Nature Glo is a better than Royal Oak purchased from one of the big box stores.  That is either the result of selective bagging or having been manufactured in a different facility.

The point is that all Royal Oak is not the same.  Some of our difference of opinion might be a result of location.  I will go on another lump buying road trip before purchasing any Royal Oak in this area ...

Find print disclaimer: My wife likes her food lightly smoked ... I work hard to make her happy, 'cuz that makes my life good.

@stlcharcoal ... please correct any mistakes

SmokinScooter

SmokyBear said:

My big issue with RO is that I constantly get bags with tons of tiny, unsuable pieces and lots (bucket fulls) of dust - and the pieces I CAN use burn up super quickly.

I was a OO guy - consistently decent size pieces that burned much longer.  Didn't care one way or the other about the smoke profile and actually like the RO smokiness.

I can't agree more....I have also found junk in a few bags of RO: One bag had a big chunk of wood and the other had a decent sized rock in it. I've been sticking with BGE lump and been quite happy with it. The BGE store here in Atlanta gives a pretty decent discount on 4 bags at a time.

Nanook

BGE lump is RO........

Jeepster47

Nanook said:

BGE lump is RO........

BGE lump is manufactured by the Royal Oak Enterprises, but is not necessarily the same product as Royal Oak lump ... agree?

Nanook

Jeepster47 said:

show previous quotes

Nanook said:

BGE lump is RO........

BGE lump is manufactured by the Royal Oak Enterprises, but is not necessarily the same product as Royal Oak lump ... agree?

I would agree, but in my experience, I haven't seen a difference in quality. 

YukonRon

KiterTodd said:

What is a VOC and why do you let it burn off?

I think from reading posts here I typically wait until I stop seeing a heavy white smoke coming out of the egg before cooking, but that also happens to be the same amount of time until I'm ready to cook.

That said, I know I've put food on while it was still smoking white (with no wood on) and the food still tasted great.

VOC, as defined by the Clean Air Act of 1970 is a Volitile Organic Compound. It is ant compound containing at least 1 carbon atom and/or 1 atom atom of Hydrogen, Oxygen, or Nitrogen. Organic chemistry needs one carbon atom, which makes this a bit confusing for some. Based on the definition as it is written iN the CAA 1970, water is a VOC.

The CAA 1970 is a multi pronged approach to reduce air pollution, VOCs were targeted specifically to reduce lower level Ozone, the brown haze you see hovering over cities. ( it is not the atmospheric ozone that protects us from dangerous radiant energy from the sun)

It it also focused on particulate contamination, exhaust from vehicles, power plants, factories, etc., hydrocarbon based emissions are typically seen or identified as smoke.

The folks in this forum, I think refer to VOC as the combination of VOC, and particulate contamination.

Many different types of compounds are found in charcoal (binding agents, color, accelerants, etc.). Typically these evaporate at relatively low temps, at various rates, based on concentration and time.

Adding heat to the process speeds up the evaporation, (the burning off of VOC). And as the fire gains heat much, but not all, of the carbon is dispersed as well.

The reason you allow the residual to burn off, is basically, flavor and health.

I hope this helps.

Jeepster47

Nanook said:

show previous quotes

Jeepster47 said:

Nanook said:

BGE lump is RO........

BGE lump is manufactured by the Royal Oak Enterprises, but is not necessarily the same product as Royal Oak lump ... agree?

I would agree, but in my experience, I haven't seen a difference in quality. 

That fits in with the point I'm trying to make.  In your area of the country, both products might come from the same facility and be interchangeable.  In my area, they are absolutely not interchangeable.  Thus, each of us have a "fact" and, if not careful, could argue forever about it.

I don't have any idea how large Royal Oak Enterprises is - it's a privately held company - but, in 2005 the family got caught up in a fraudulent tax shelter deal ... http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/08/business/one-familys-tale-of-tax-shelter-gone-awry.html  They invested $188 million dollars in the shelter.  Their lump is not all coming from the same kiln!

Lit

stlcharcoal said:

show previous quotes

Lit said:

I tried rockwood from firecraft and bought 2 bags I used one and gave one to a buddy. It was neutral smoke but garbage lump it was all small crappy pieces. I bet I threw away 2 pounds of dust and my buddy had the same thoughts. OO is 10 times better than Rockwood in my opinion. If Rockwood was like $14 a bag I would probably use it. Way over priced IMO.

Dude you have been complaining about that ONE bag you used for over a year now.  Who knows what happened to it (and the one next two it)......maybe it FedEx beat it up, maybe something extremely heavy got set on top of the pallets on the way to PA, or maybe we screwed it up.

In any case, it's not normal.  We haven't received but 4-5 reports regarding crushed charcoal to that extent in several years and over a hundred thousand bags.  If it was typical, you could be guaranteed it would be all over this forum and reflected on TNW.  Never had anyone else call my product anything near as derogatory as "garbage lump it was all small crappy pieces".

There are bags in nearly every Ace store in ATL.  Go buy one and if it still sucks in your opinion I will personally send you a refund.  It seems like you have already made up your mind, but it's worth a shot.

I agree I need to try another bag but I need to find a reasonable ace. The one closest to me wanted over $25 a bag last I checked which is ridiculous. I can't agree though with your less than 5 complaints about small pieces though. Look back through previous posts I have seen way more than 5 just on this site. Also it was 2 crappy bags. I am guessing shipping was a main issue but if that's the only way I can get it reasonable then that's the quality I am going to end up with which for over $1 a pound isn't acceptable. I can wait and order fogo from Amazon in the winter for 60 cents a pound. Just my thoughts on it.

KiterTodd

YukonRon said:

...

The reason you allow the residual to burn off, is basically, flavor and health.

I hope this helps.

Very helpful @YukonRon.   Follow-up questions...

#1 To confirm, if I have no wood chunks in the fire, are the VOCs burned off when there is no visible "smoke" coming out of the top of the egg?

#2 What if I have put some wood chunks in there.  Those are going to produce good smoke, right?  At that point am I just waiting the time I know it usually takes my lump to burn off the VOCs?

Thanks! 

Legume

I use RO more than any other single brand.  I also pick up the Central Market (HEB) branded oak or mesquite lump, I've bought the large Stubbs bag from Costco when they had it.  I've had great bags of RO with large pieces, little duff, I've also had bags that were powdered.  I've taken to fondling bags whenever I hit a store selling some - if I find a good one, I buy it.  I don't hoard, but I try to have 1-2 bags around.  I didn't like cowboy or frontier, but RO doesn't bother me for the most part, but I do try to build a fire that's appropriate to what I'm going to be cooking, I don't fill the XL to the top and then light it to grill a couple of chicken breasts or sausages.  I try to make sure I'm on the lighter side of a load for what I'm cooking so I maximize airflow and burn.  Maybe this doesn't matter, but I'd rather have fewer pieces of lump burning well than lots of lump choked off.

I've never ordered lump online, I've never tried any of the 'premium' brands people talk about here.  If they were close by, I certainly would and I'm certainly curious, but I'm going to probably keep buying lump at a local store.  My biggest beefs are sparking and crushed lump, but I don't get much sparking from RO if I light with a chimney and oiled paper towel, I do if I use a blow torch or heat gun.

I'll probably grab a bag of Lazzari from RD next time I'm up there.

SmyrnaGA

Lit said:

I agree I need to try another bag but I need to find a reasonable ace. The one closest to me wanted over $25 a bag last I checked

West Paces Smith Ace Hardware was selling RW for $26.99 a week ago.  I think that same bag has been sitting on the shelf for the last few months.  They had a beaten up bag of WGWW for $25.99.  When I asked if there was another bag in the back, the salesman were trying to tell me charcoal is a rough product and can tear the bag easily.  When I told him charcoal is a very FRAGILE product so I would rather have a pristine bag, he said that was the last bag (without even checking the computer system).  They also have 'Carbon del Sol' for $19.99 which I can get for about half that at Restaurant Depot.  I will never buy charcoal from that Ace again.

Just my 2 cents.

Canugghead

In my neck of the woods, blue bag RO costs more than Maple Leaf and Basques, for the past few years I stocked up on RO when Lowes had annual 50% discount deal for a week, figured I could live with some RO and save some dough.

This year it's a nobrainer to stay away from RO because:

1. Imported RO price jumped from $15 to $18 (20%)
2. Domestic ML and Basques practically no price change
3. Lowes one-week promotion on RO deteriorated from 50% off to 25% off

Little Steven

KiterTodd said:

show previous quotes

YukonRon said:

...

The reason you allow the residual to burn off, is basically, flavor and health.

I hope this helps.

Very helpful @YukonRon.   Follow-up questions...

#1 To confirm, if I have no wood chunks in the fire, are the VOCs burned off when there is no visible "smoke" coming out of the top of the egg?

#2 What if I have put some wood chunks in there.  Those are going to produce good smoke, right?  At that point am I just waiting the time I know it usually takes my lump to burn off the VOCs?

Thanks! 

Chunks and chips may not produce much visible smoke when the are burning but the wood flavor will still be there 

Lit

KiterTodd said:

show previous quotes

YukonRon said:

...

The reason you allow the residual to burn off, is basically, flavor and health.

I hope this helps.

Very helpful @YukonRon.   Follow-up questions...

#1 To confirm, if I have no wood chunks in the fire, are the VOCs burned off when there is no visible "smoke" coming out of the top of the egg?

#2 What if I have put some wood chunks in there.  Those are going to produce good smoke, right?  At that point am I just waiting the time I know it usually takes my lump to burn off the VOCs?

Thanks! 

Wood burning in the egg does not produce good smoke ever on a low and slow. The fire is not hot enough to burn it that's why you have to use small amounts or you get a foul taste. That foul taste is too much bad smoke. Same foul taste I got when learning to use straight wood on my other smoker when I let it smolder like the egg does. 

northGAcock

CSNY said it best....If you can't be with the one you love.....love the one your with. 

DoubleEgger

East Cobb ACE is the cheapest place I've found for RW in Atlanta. 

Theophan

Very interesting -- thanks for all of the helpful replies!

I agree that I don't want a really simple, not very highly flavored chicken to be "too" smoky, so I never add wood chips if I'm doing a spatchcock with just olive oil, salt and pepper, for example, which honestly is a favorite cook (!), because just the (BGE) lump gives it a very mild smoky flavor that I really like.  I wouldn't want it much smokier, but I also wouldn't want it to just taste like I roasted it in the oven indoors!  If it's more highly seasoned, like jerk chicken or something, then I want a more noticeable smoky flavor and I usually add some wood.

And I still haven't gotten around to trying pizza in the Egg, but I've been supposing that I might actually want it to be slightly smoky, to make me think of a wood-fired brick oven.  If it doesn't taste smoky at all, how is it better than just baking it in an oven?  (I'm actually asking, not being sarcastic.)

I guess I'll look around my area and see what other brands are available, maybe try some.  All I've ever used was BGE, assuming, maybe incorrectly, that they wouldn't put their name on it if it wasn't making their Big Green Eggs taste as good as possible.

Thanks again for all of the information.  This has been an interesting discussion to me.

YukonRon

KiterTodd said:

show previous quotes

YukonRon said:

...

The reason you allow the residual to burn off, is basically, flavor and health.

I hope this helps.

Very helpful @YukonRon.   Follow-up questions...

#1 To confirm, if I have no wood chunks in the fire, are the VOCs burned off when there is no visible "smoke" coming out of the top of the egg?

#2 What if I have put some wood chunks in there.  Those are going to produce good smoke, right?  At that point am I just waiting the time I know it usually takes my lump to burn off the VOCs?

Thanks! 

Little Steven and Lit are dead on. I think most chunks are dried before processing, and as such you will get a cleaner milder smoke for flavor. I have read this comparison on here before, and I find it gives a great explanation: wood chunks in a plastic bag is like lumber in a lumber yard, vs fresh cut wood. The smoke is less intense, and much more mild than fresh cut wood not dried in a kiln.

Leg me know if I cN be of further help.

Focker

Drive a Chevy, use RO and blue K, drink Bud and Jim Beam.  When it comes to traditional Q, blue K in the WSM smokes the egg and WG or OO IMHO.
  
If I want neutral flavor, I would've kept the Weber gasser.

SmyrnaGA

Royal Oak and Frontier are my "everyday" charcoal.

It appears I kept better records than I thought.  Over the past year, I've used 34% Royal Oak, 34% Frontier(USA), 9% Cowboy, 14% Cowboy Premium Gold, 9% Rockwood.  I find that RO, Frontier, & Cowboy often contain uncharred wood piece.  Once I sort them out, they only take 5-10 minutes for the white smoke to clear.  I wasn't able to find any uncharred wood in the bag of Cowboy Premium Gold & Rockwood I tested.

Rockwood - I got these from a group buy before ACE started carrying them.  Little to no dust, no huge lumps.  Very neutral.  I save these for my most important cooks.

Cowboy Premium Gold - This is the old "leftover lumber mill scraps" I've heard about.  It's all squares and a few molding pieces.  Very light, burns fast & hot.  It's smokey, but, in a way SWMBO likes.  (And that's all that matters)

Frontier(USA) - One of my 2 "everyday" charcoals.  I stockpile them from BJs when they have a sale.  There's always a few HUGE and HEAVY pieces I save for my S&L in there, other than that, it's pretty much like RO to me.

Royal Oak - I stockpile these from Restaurant Depot when they have a sale.  It's my other "everyday" charcoal.  As long as I filter out the uncharred pieces, they're very usable.  Food coming out of it has a hit of smokey flavor.  I only have to add smoke wood when I want that extra "kick".

Cowboy (regular) - Not a big fan of this, the first bag seemed a little smoky compared to Royal Oak, but, I opened the second bag after I used up the first bag of Rockwood...  WOW.

jls9595

fiver29 said:

People don't like it because it is widely available and you can pick it up at Wal Mart.  Unless you buy your charcoal by the pallet driving for two days in your truck you aren't one of the cool kids.

hey, I resemble that remark lol