SDBBQ's Double Indirect Setup - First Time

phswrestler125

I watch alot of "smoking dad BBQ" videos and have been very intrigued with his "double indirect" method. Like many have observed, it is hard to get that clean smoke with a kamado style grill due to the efficiency of the grill itself. In order for a kamado grill to stay low in temperature, then it requires restricted airflow, which results in a small burning fire which will smolder the wood chunks instead of cleanly burn it like what you have in an offset smoker. Smoking Dad BBQ has preached about the double indirect method, which allows him to burn a hotter fire in his kamado Joe, but still protect his meat from overcooking on the bottom.

I always wondered how would i replicate his double indirect method in my large BGE. The good thing is I already owned a CGS Spider, CGS Woo, 2x CGS half moon stones and CGS 2x1.5" ceramic spacers that i usually use to airgap my drain catch pan, so I decided to buy a 14" BGE Pizza stone to act as my 2nd deflector.

I started to draft up some diagrams on how to accomplish this. I came up with two configurations that I could do with the above setup:

1) Place 14" Pizza stone on the spider low inside the firering and the WOO w/ 2x half stones in its normal position

• Creates a 1.75" air gap between the lower and upper ceramic stone deflectors

2) Place 14" Pizza stone on the spider low inside the firering, WOO w/ 2x half stones on top of 1.5" ceramic spacers (2" spacers flipped on their side)

• Creates a 3.25" air gap between the lower and upper ceramic stone deflectors

-----------------------------------------------------


I wasn't sure which would be a better situation - either a 1.75" airgap with configuration (1) or a 3.25" airgap with configuration (2). I ultimately decided to do the 3.25" airgap with configuration (2) with some baby back (bbq foil wrap) and spare ribs (texas style). Following SDBBQ's method, i cooked the ribs using the "hot and fast method" to get better/cleaner smoke. Dome temperature ran between 290-305. I decided to wrap the loin-back ribs in foil with butter and honey, and decided to foil-boat the st louis ribs to get a nice bark and spritz the st louis ribs with honey/water (simple syrup) mixture.

Unfortunately, i was a little disappointed in the outcome of the cook - but this is mostly likely due to my errors, since this clearly works for SDBBQ. I also used a little too much wood i believe (SDBBQ uses a 95/5 charcoal to wood ratio). I used 2x hickory chucks on the bottom of my kick ash basket, 1x cherry in the middle of the lump, and 1x cherry in the bottom draft door for when the ashes fall through the bottom.  I believe the total cook time ended up being around 3 hrs (204 and floppy). The baby back ribs came out a little dry and crisp on the ends (could have been the meat itself - 4lbs slab from publix), and i burned the crap out of the bottom of the st louis ribs. I am not sure what happened, but i was hoping that running at 290-305 wouldn't burn the bottom of my ribs since i was using the double indirect method. I personally like the smoke flavor, but i think i could've dialed it back some - I'll think i'll just use a total of 2x wood chunks next time. But i am uncertain why i burned the bottom of my ribs - maybe i'll dial is back to 275-280 next time, but i am afraid I won't get the good cleaning burning fire that SDBBQ gets. I also wonder if the smaller airgap in configuration (1) would be a better setup for the double indirect method on the large BGE.

Anyone have any thoughts on the above ?


Here are some final pics of the ribs:

phswrestler125

@unoriginalusername

Any thoughts on which configuration (1 or 2) would be better? Also - any insight into why i would've bottom of my ribs were burnt ?

Thank you for all of your youtube content! I'm going to keep trying to replicate your methods to find out which will work best with my large BGE setup.

littlerascal56

You killed it man!  Those are some awesome looking ribs.
I run mine at 265-270 at the grate temp, so you might try that next cook. 

Foghorn

I think I think I might have your answer.

 

I’ve read about SDBBQ double indirect setup and I’ve done a variation of that for years for 2 reasons:

1)      So I don’t burn the bottom of my ribs when I cook at higher temps

2)      Because I like to cook brisket with the fat side up – toward the heat in the dome and I want to really ensure that no rising heat gets to the bottom of my brisket.  This does not require a large fire to accomplish, it is just a way to not burn the bottom of the brisket and put the fat toward the heat.

The bottom of the ribs was probably burned due to radiant heat from your higher level of ceramic – because your lower layer is smaller and allows some heat from your fire to directly hit the 2nd level.

I’m not sure about how a fire that burns hotter (at least in the firebox) – but is still limited by airflow – definitively gives a better smoke taste profile.  I suspect that SDBBQ would get similar results if he cooked at 275 using the same setup.

With all of that said, I do a “double indirect” setup.  For the lower layer I use a platesetter/convEGGtor.  For the second layer I use a hand fashioned foil “drip pan” – either set on a lower grate – or if I’m cooking on both grate levels I use some foil balls on the convEGGtor to create an air gap and then set the foil “drip pan” on that.  The foil layer has an even larger silhouette than the platesetter – leaving only about ½” for airflow in the periphery between the convEGGtor legs.

This forces the heat up around the brisket (or ribs or whatever) so that there is more heat on the top and where brisket is concerned it results in the "caramelized fat" that SDBBQ describes.

Basically, it recreates a process that a bunch of Harvard students figured out when they spent a semester trying to design the perfect brisket cooker.

https://www.wired.com/2015/07/high-tech-bbq/

I may be the only person here who does their brisket this way but that’s because the rest haven’t figured out that it is the best way to go.  They’ll come around… 

Skims_Smokehouse

I’ve seen the double indirect sdbbq does, but it starts with the slow roller on the bottom.  The convection properties of the slow roller is going to be a bit different than putting a pizza stone low in the firebox.

You may have actually increased convection currents quite a bit with your setup. Kamados usually hold moisture well, but perhaps adding more air flow removes moisture at a higher rate.

I do the air gapped drip pan foghorn described.   For briskets, I foil boat plus butcher paper.  The bottom isn’t burned, and my results are acceptable. 

lousubcap

I appreciate the detailed writeup and pursuit of the challenge @phswrestler125.  Also the other comments are insightful as well. 
Regarding @Foghorn's approach, whatever works configuration-wise is the way to go.  I just go with a standard air-gapped 14" diameter drip pan on the platesetter and the brisket at the felt line.  Little to no air-flow restriction with that set-up.  I run cap down however, whenever I need to use a fire brick (about 2"x2" square) to initially get the brisket to fit, the cook does seem to run a bit quicker to support Foghorn's elevated radiant heat theory when high in the dome and reduced spacing around the heat deflector.  FWIW-

fishlessman

i prefer a direct cook, raised rack as high as possible, and half a firebox of lump. 220 direct. maybe maximum distance to the low fire is key.

unoriginalusername

phswrestler125 said:

I watch alot of "smoking dad BBQ" videos and have been very intrigued with his "double indirect" method. Like many have observed, it is hard to get that clean smoke with a kamado style grill due to the efficiency of the grill itself. In order for a kamado grill to stay low in temperature, then it requires restricted airflow, which results in a small burning fire which will smolder the wood chunks instead of cleanly burn it like what you have in an offset smoker. Smoking Dad BBQ has preached about the double indirect method, which allows him to burn a hotter fire in his kamado Joe, but still protect his meat from overcooking on the bottom.

I always wondered how would i replicate his double indirect method in my large BGE. The good thing is I already owned a CGS Spider, CGS Woo, 2x CGS half moon stones and CGS 2x1.5" ceramic spacers that i usually use to airgap my drain catch pan, so I decided to buy a 14" BGE Pizza stone to act as my 2nd deflector.

I started to draft up some diagrams on how to accomplish this. I came up with two configurations that I could do with the above setup:

1) Place 14" Pizza stone on the spider low inside the firering and the WOO w/ 2x half stones in its normal position

• Creates a 1.75" air gap between the lower and upper ceramic stone deflectors

2) Place 14" Pizza stone on the spider low inside the firering, WOO w/ 2x half stones on top of 1.5" ceramic spacers (2" spacers flipped on their side)

• Creates a 3.25" air gap between the lower and upper ceramic stone deflectors

-----------------------------------------------------


I wasn't sure which would be a better situation - either a 1.75" airgap with configuration (1) or a 3.25" airgap with configuration (2). I ultimately decided to do the 3.25" airgap with configuration (2) with some baby back (bbq foil wrap) and spare ribs (texas style). Following SDBBQ's method, i cooked the ribs using the "hot and fast method" to get better/cleaner smoke. Dome temperature ran between 290-305. I decided to wrap the loin-back ribs in foil with butter and honey, and decided to foil-boat the st louis ribs to get a nice bark and spritz the st louis ribs with honey/water (simple syrup) mixture.

Unfortunately, i was a little disappointed in the outcome of the cook - but this is mostly likely due to my errors, since this clearly works for SDBBQ. I also used a little too much wood i believe (SDBBQ uses a 95/5 charcoal to wood ratio). I used 2x hickory chucks on the bottom of my kick ash basket, 1x cherry in the middle of the lump, and 1x cherry in the bottom draft door for when the ashes fall through the bottom.  I believe the total cook time ended up being around 3 hrs (204 and floppy). The baby back ribs came out a little dry and crisp on the ends (could have been the meat itself - 4lbs slab from publix), and i burned the crap out of the bottom of the st louis ribs. I am not sure what happened, but i was hoping that running at 290-305 wouldn't burn the bottom of my ribs since i was using the double indirect method. I personally like the smoke flavor, but i think i could've dialed it back some - I'll think i'll just use a total of 2x wood chunks next time. But i am uncertain why i burned the bottom of my ribs - maybe i'll dial is back to 275-280 next time, but i am afraid I won't get the good cleaning burning fire that SDBBQ gets. I also wonder if the smaller airgap in configuration (1) would be a better setup for the double indirect method on the large BGE.

Anyone have any thoughts on the above ?


Here are some final pics of the ribs:

Some great details here, thanks for doing that.  I would lean to setup #2 since you've got more clearance from the stones for things like a drip pan and you're leveraging more radiant heat from the dome.  Being above the felt line helps on things like brisket where you want to render the fat cap (up) vs. being tucked down low in the dome but they both look good so its whatever is easier for you to setup and after playing with a few what you like the results of best.

The ribs look amazing 

Skims_Smokehouse

Good suggestion on the dome heat.  My grid thermometer sometimes reads 20°F different than the dome.  I wonder what a grid thermometer would show for this science experiment.

nolaegghead

littlerascal56 said:

You killed it man!  Those are some awesome looking ribs.
I run mine at 265-270 at the grate temp, so you might try that next cook. 

Way to go, Bob - completely avoid reading the words then drawing a warped conclusion based on pictures and ultimately adding nothing of value to the OP.  

Par for the course.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

I will say that the best way I have found to get the cleanest smoke on a Kamado is Harry Solo’s method. Load about 1/4-1/3 of the firebox up with lump, add 2-3 wood chunks and cover with more unlit lump leaving some room for:

Light a chimney of lump and pour over the top of the lump bed when ripping hot. Set temp and give it 30 min. 

This will get the chunks smoking and the smoke will have to rise through the red hot lump at the top of the firebox. The red hot lump at the top will clean up the smoke as it rises through. 

Enjoy. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I will say that the best way I have found to get the cleanest smoke on a Kamado is Harry Solo’s method. Load about 1/4-1/3 of the firebox up with lump, add 2-3 wood chunks and cover with more unlit lump leaving some room for:

Light a chimney of lump and pour over the top of the lump bed when ripping hot. Set temp and give it 30 min. 

This will get the chunks smoking and the smoke will have to rise through the red hot lump at the top of the firebox. The red hot lump at the top will clean up the smoke as it rises through. 

Enjoy. 

Harry Soo. Damn autocorrect. 

littlerascal56

nolaegghead said:

littlerascal56 said:

You killed it man!  Those are some awesome looking ribs.
I run mine at 265-270 at the grate temp, so you might try that next cook. 

Way to go, Bob - completely avoid reading the words then drawing a warped conclusion based on pictures and ultimately adding nothing of value to the OP.  

Par for the course.

Carey-for someone that has an email address evil2-live@….. you might want to seek professional help.  Perhaps that was part of the issue why Bridget left?  Just sayin’

Botch

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I will say that the best way I have found to get the cleanest smoke on a Kamado is Harry Solo’s method. Load about 1/4-1/3 of the firebox up with lump, add 2-3 wood chunks and cover with more unlit lump leaving some room for:

Light a chimney of lump and pour over the top of the lump bed when ripping hot. Set temp and give it 30 min. 

This will get the chunks smoking and the smoke will have to rise through the red hot lump at the top of the firebox. The red hot lump at the top will clean up the smoke as it rises through. 

I remember when you originally posted that.  My problem was the hardwood would always catch fire and be burned out before I got to temp, I think hardwood ignition temp must be much lower than that of lump.  
Now I light just lump, let it get to temp, throw on the protein/veg, and then slide small pieces of hardwood in through the bottom vent, to the center of the Egg (think I made a post with pics).  The hardwood smoke starts pouring out just as the protein starts cooking.  

nolaegghead

littlerascal56 said:

nolaegghead said:

littlerascal56 said:

You killed it man!  Those are some awesome looking ribs.
I run mine at 265-270 at the grate temp, so you might try that next cook. 

Way to go, Bob - completely avoid reading the words then drawing a warped conclusion based on pictures and ultimately adding nothing of value to the OP.  

Par for the course.

Carey-for someone that has an email address evil2-live@….. you might want to seek professional help.  Perhaps that was part of the issue why Bridget left?  Just sayin’

Spitballing looks pretty bad when everyone else is more informed than you are.  I knew there was a reason I hated one legged half deaf thrice bankrupted white nationalists.  Literally, just sayin’

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Botch said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I will say that the best way I have found to get the cleanest smoke on a Kamado is Harry Solo’s method. Load about 1/4-1/3 of the firebox up with lump, add 2-3 wood chunks and cover with more unlit lump leaving some room for:

Light a chimney of lump and pour over the top of the lump bed when ripping hot. Set temp and give it 30 min. 

This will get the chunks smoking and the smoke will have to rise through the red hot lump at the top of the firebox. The red hot lump at the top will clean up the smoke as it rises through. 

I remember when you originally posted that.  My problem was the hardwood would always catch fire and be burned out before I got to temp, I think hardwood ignition temp must be much lower than that of lump.  
Now I light just lump, let it get to temp, throw on the protein/veg, and then slide small pieces of hardwood in through the bottom vent, to the center of the Egg (think I made a post with pics).  The hardwood smoke starts pouring out just as the protein starts cooking.  

Put the chunks lower. You can even put them on the fire grate and pour lump on top of that. 

fishlessman

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Botch said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I will say that the best way I have found to get the cleanest smoke on a Kamado is Harry Solo’s method. Load about 1/4-1/3 of the firebox up with lump, add 2-3 wood chunks and cover with more unlit lump leaving some room for:

Light a chimney of lump and pour over the top of the lump bed when ripping hot. Set temp and give it 30 min. 

This will get the chunks smoking and the smoke will have to rise through the red hot lump at the top of the firebox. The red hot lump at the top will clean up the smoke as it rises through. 

I remember when you originally posted that.  My problem was the hardwood would always catch fire and be burned out before I got to temp, I think hardwood ignition temp must be much lower than that of lump.  
Now I light just lump, let it get to temp, throw on the protein/veg, and then slide small pieces of hardwood in through the bottom vent, to the center of the Egg (think I made a post with pics).  The hardwood smoke starts pouring out just as the protein starts cooking.  

Put the chunks lower. You can even put them on the fire grate and pour lump on top of that. 

botch is putting the smoking wood under the fire grate,  works especially well in a mini where there is only so much lump space

phswrestler125

fishlessman said:

botch is putting the smoking wood under the fire grate,  works especially well in a mini where there is only so much lump space

As in putting the wood through the bottom air draft door, correct ? So when burning coal fall through, it ignites the wood

lkapigian

phswrestler125 said:

fishlessman said:

botch is putting the smoking wood under the fire grate,  works especially well in a mini where there is only so much lump space

As in putting the wood through the bottom air draft door, correct ? So when burning coal fall through, it ignites the wood

yes ,just like a gravity feed

The Cen-Tex Smoker

I do not put wood in the draft door. It’s just low in the firebox under a bunch of lump. It never ignites, just smokes. It actually turns into lump