A question for @CenTex Smoker

Botch

Quite awhile ago you (I think it was you) made a post about Clean Smoke, and burying our "smoke wood" underneath the lump, so that the "dirty" smoke flowed up thru the hot lump, burned completely, and gave us the same clean smoke that the stick burner setups gave us (being BGEs control the heat via oxygen starvation).  It made a lot of sense, to me, and I've been trying to make this work, for about a year now.
However, I can't.  It always seems that the wood chunk/chips ignites almost immediately, before the lump above it is hot.  This afternoon, that was confirmed in spades. I buried the raw chunk at the bottom of my KAB, completely to one side, and filled the basket to the top, and lit it in the center with the lid open and the bottom vent closed (I was grilling).  Twenty minutes in, I saw glowing coals in the center, but smoke pouring out, above the raw wood to the side; the lump above it was dark.
 
I cave-manned my meat anyway, we'll see how it comes out tomorrow.  My question is, how exactly do you do this?  I'm thinking the next time I try to smoke something, I'm going to drop the chips/chunk into the bottom, below the KAB; don't see any other way this could work.  
Thoughts?  

PeteSliver

Hi Botch!

I just read that the other day but I can’t remember where.  I think he said he dumps a chimney full of fully involved kingsford on top of the lump.  Nothing burns cleaner than kingsford my daddy always said.

SmokeyPitt

There was some buzz several years ago about modifying a small Dutch oven for a smoke box. 

The basic idea is the smoke can only exit at the bottom. You place it on the burning lump so the smoke is sort of double burned. Note that people suggest fewer holes concentrated in the center. 

https://www.kamadoguru.com/topic/21417-dutch-oven-smoke-pot/

Seems like a solid idea in theory...just not sure I could sacrifice a $40 Dutch oven to try it. 

JohnInCarolina

Botch you want to load up your firebox until it’s almost full, then put wood chunks on top.  Then you get a chimney full of lump going strong until it’s red-hot, and when you’re ready to cook you dump that pile into the Egg.  Those red-hot chunks can’t help but ignite the smoke wood, which has no choice but to have its smoke pass through lit lump.

kl8ton

This may be the thread you are thinking of? 

https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1222754/aaron-franklin-masterclass

Foghorn

As CenTex hasn't answered yet, I'll chime in.  Here's what he posted on the first page of the thread that is linked above.

"fill your firebox up to the bottom of the ring, add 3-4 wood chunks and then dump a full lit chimney of lump on top of that, get your temp where you want it and cook away. 

The ignited lump purifies the smoke As it passes through and gets as close as an offset /wood burning out as i have found. I can barely tell the difference anymore. Cooked on my kbq last night and couldn’t really tell the difference. Maybe a tiny bit but not enough for most to notice."


I've done this with success a number of times.  I would add 2 comments.

1) I dig a hole in the center of the unlit lump and fill it with the wood chunks - then put the lit chimney of lump on top of it.

2) This seems to really only be for low/slow cooks.  At least that was my interpretation.

Gulfcoastguy

I don't use smoking wood that much but I always buried it under 4 or so inches of lump and lit the top of the lump in 3 or so places. Seemed to work for me but maybe my palate isn't refined.

Canugghead

SmokeyPitt said:

There was some buzz several years ago about modifying a small Dutch oven for a smoke box. 

The basic idea is the smoke can only exit at the bottom. You place it on the burning lump so the smoke is sort of double burned. Note t, hat people suggest fewer holes concentrated in the center. 

https://www.kamadoguru.com/topic/21417-dutch-oven-smoke-pot/

Seems like a solid idea in theory...just not sure I could sacrifice a $40 Dutch oven to try it. 

I was searching for ^^^, thanks. I have an old enameled dutch oven with chipped/cracked bottom, saved it for this experiment. Also wondering about this ... since the wood chunks will be in limited oxygen environment, will they turn into charcoal at the end of a low and slow?

edit: looks like my old DO is way too big, have to find something smaller.

HeavyG

So if 3 or 4 chunks of wood provides the equivalent smoke flavor of dozens of wood splits burning over many hours why bother doing the latter?

JohnInCarolina

HeavyG said:

So if 3 or 4 chunks of wood provides the equivalent smoke flavor of dozens of wood splits burning over many hours why bother doing the latter?

Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination, HeavyGson.

lkapigian

HeavyG said:

So if 3 or 4 chunks of wood provides the equivalent smoke flavor of dozens of wood splits burning over many hours why bother doing the latter?

It doesn't

MO_Eggin

Canugghead said:

SmokeyPitt said:

There was some buzz several years ago about modifying a small Dutch oven for a smoke box. 

The basic idea is the smoke can only exit at the bottom. You place it on the burning lump so the smoke is sort of double burned. Note t, hat people suggest fewer holes concentrated in the center. 

https://www.kamadoguru.com/topic/21417-dutch-oven-smoke-pot/

Seems like a solid idea in theory...just not sure I could sacrifice a $40 Dutch oven to try it. 

I was searching for ^^^, thanks. I have an old enameled dutch oven with chipped/cracked bottom, saved it for this experiment. Also wondering about this ... since the wood chunks will be in limited oxygen environment, will they turn into charcoal at the end of a low and slow?

edit: looks like my old DO is way too big, have to find something smaller.

I bought a cheap 1qt DO on Amazon and tried the "smoke pot" approach outlined in that linked thread in my large.  It worked pretty well at producing clean (thin blue) smoke, and the chunks / chips did end up charcoal-like; I would dump them into the egg for the next cook.   I use a spider and stone for indirect cooks in that egg, and the DO limited the amount of lump I could load up, even placing the DO directly on the fire grate.  I also needed to light charcoal on a couple of sides of the DO to get a reasonable amount of smoke.  I stopped using the DO as the benefit wasn't that much greater than just peppering chunks in with the lump. 

Foghorn

lkapigian said:

HeavyG said:

So if 3 or 4 chunks of wood provides the equivalent smoke flavor of dozens of wood splits burning over many hours why bother doing the latter?

It doesn't

And I don't think anyone ever said that it does.  This is just a very good way to get close to that on a kamado.

lkapigian

Foghorn said:

lkapigian said:

HeavyG said:

So if 3 or 4 chunks of wood provides the equivalent smoke flavor of dozens of wood splits burning over many hours why bother doing the latter?

It doesn't

And I don't think anyone ever said that it does.  This is just a very good way to get close to that on a kamado.

no doubt, I find I do have better results with chunks from my wood pile VS the store bought lin dried, but all good ..I'm in the bury mine in just below the surface and dump a lit chimney on that 

Canugghead

@MO_Eggin thanks for the intel.

DainW

This is all very interesting and am intrigued to try this on my next brisket cook. I went back and reread the original thread, and am curious about the set up. From what I read you either 1) bury the wood chunks at the bottom cover with more lump and then dump hot lump on top from a chimney starter or you 2) make a small pile of wood with some lump around and then dump hot lump on top right?

Here’s my question, if using the first method, how do you ensure that the wood at the bottom ignites? In my large egg, I find that I have to start a very small fire in order to maintain 250 degrees. I can hold the temps just fine, but what I find is that even after 12 hours of “smoking,” very little of the fuel is used up, maybe 1/3. If using the second method, it seems as if you would get clean smoke at first, but what happens when the original lump from the starter burns off? Would you continue to get clean smoke?

For what it’s worth, I’ve had success mixing the wood chunks with the lump in about a 1:2 ratio of wood to lump. This creates a lot of smoke at first, but if you wait long enough, the dirty smoke burns off and the egg eventually settles with thin blue smoke at which point I put the meat on the grill. This requires planning ahead and in some cases lighting the first two or more hours before I plan to start the cook. 

buzd504

DainW said:

This is all very interesting and am intrigued to try this on my next brisket cook. I went back and reread the original thread, and am curious about the set up. From what I read you either 1) bury the wood chunks at the bottom cover with more lump and then dump hot lump on top from a chimney starter or you 2) make a small pile of wood with some lump around and then dump hot lump on top right?

Here’s my question, if using the first method, how do you ensure that the wood at the bottom ignites? In my large egg, I find that I have to start a very small fire in order to maintain 250 degrees. I can hold the temps just fine, but what I find is that even after 12 hours of “smoking,” very little of the fuel is used up, maybe 1/3. If using the second method, it seems as if you would get clean smoke at first, but what happens when the original lump from the starter burns off? Would you continue to get clean smoke?

For what it’s worth, I’ve had success mixing the wood chunks with the lump in about a 1:2 ratio of wood to lump. This creates a lot of smoke at first, but if you wait long enough, the dirty smoke burns off and the egg eventually settles with thin blue smoke at which point I put the meat on the grill. This requires planning ahead and in some cases lighting the first two or more hours before I plan to start the cook. 

I stir the lump, then push all of the burned lump to the back, exposing the fire grate.  Then I put my chunks on the exposed fire grate - usually 3-6 pieces, depending on what I'm doing.  I try to spread them around as best I can and then pour new lump and fill the egg.  I light the top with a torch.  I find the fire tends to work it's way downward towards the oxygen source, so by the time it's established, it's towards the wood.  I've never had a problem with it catching at some point.

HeavyG

Foghorn said:

lkapigian said:

HeavyG said:

So if 3 or 4 chunks of wood provides the equivalent smoke flavor of dozens of wood splits burning over many hours why bother doing the latter?

It doesn't

And I don't think anyone ever said that it does.  This is just a very good way to get close to that on a kamado.

I believe you were quoting or paraphrasing Centex:

The ignited lump purifies the smoke As it passes through and gets as close as an offset /wood burning out as i have found. I can barely tell the difference anymore. Cooked on my kbq last night and couldn’t really tell the difference. Maybe a tiny bit but not enough for most to notice."

I'll be the first to concede that my pallette is nowhere near as fine tuned as that of many others. My impression tho is that Centex knows whereof he speaks and if he has trouble discerning a difference then he is right - most of us couldn't tell the difference.

Which begs the question - if a technique on a kamado yields essentially the same results (as judged by the masses) as a stick burner is a stick burner still credibly the superior tool?

I think a lot of blind taste testing is in order.

Ozzie_Isaac

You all are terrible at instructions.  This was a question only for @CenTex Smoker.  Please be better forum friends.

kl8ton

@The Cen-Tex Smoker

Photo Egg

HeavyG said:

So if 3 or 4 chunks of wood provides the equivalent smoke flavor of dozens of wood splits burning over many hours why bother doing the latter?

3-4 wood chunks smoldering in a Egg does not give you the same results as a clean burning offset or gravity fed unit. Never been able to get a real good smoke ring on my Eggs. The offset is definitely more work. And I’m not going to tell anyone it’s worth the extra time and work because I’m not convinced myself. But the above method makes for a cleaner fire and gets you  closer to the real stuff. Sorry for the poor lighting on above photos. First cook on my newest offset.

But the ABTs were the bomb.

Botch

If/when we ever have another in-person GTG, it might be illuminating to have a mass blind-tasting of briskets from an Egg, vs a stick burner.  Or even, briskets with a wide smoke ring, vs briskies with none.  
I've not read, yet, a convincing argument of which is better, nor even an explanation of what causes a smoke ring (sometimes I get one, sometimes I get a thick one (heh), and sometimes nothing,  No idea why.  

lousubcap

Here's a good read regarding smoke rings:
https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/more-cooking-science/mythbusting-smoke-ring-no-smoke-necessary  
 And a related article:
https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/grill-and-smoker-setup-and-firing/what-you-need-know-about-wood-smoke-and 
FWIW-

caliking

Botch said:

If/when we ever have another in-person GTG, it might be illuminating to have a mass blind-tasting of briskets from an Egg, vs a stick burner.  Or even, briskets with a wide smoke ring, vs briskies with none.  
I've not read, yet, a convincing argument of which is better, nor even an explanation of what causes a smoke ring (sometimes I get one, sometimes I get a thick one (heh), and sometimes nothing,  No idea why.  

You just described Brisket Camp

northGAcock

Botch said:

If/when we ever have another in-person GTG, it might be illuminating to have a mass blind-tasting of briskets from an Egg, vs a stick burner.  Or even, briskets with a wide smoke ring, vs briskies with none.  
I've not read, yet, a convincing argument of which is better, nor even an explanation of what causes a smoke ring (sometimes I get one, sometimes I get a thick one (heh), and sometimes nothing,  No idea why.  

Sounds like a Butt Blast or Brisket Camp challenge off....... I mean after this Covid chit.  

Photo Egg

Botch said:

If/when we ever have another in-person GTG, it might be illuminating to have a mass blind-tasting of briskets from an Egg, vs a stick burner.  Or even, briskets with a wide smoke ring, vs briskies with none.  
I've not read, yet, a convincing argument of which is better, nor even an explanation of what causes a smoke ring (sometimes I get one, sometimes I get a thick one (heh), and sometimes nothing,  No idea why.  

A good smoke ring, in my opinion, is similar to nice wide char marks made from cast iron grids, they are pretty.

PeteSliver

Lack of smoke ring is why I quit dating 10 years ago.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Foghorn said:

As CenTex hasn't answered yet, I'll chime in.  Here's what he posted on the first page of the thread that is linked above.

"fill your firebox up to the bottom of the ring, add 3-4 wood chunks and then dump a full lit chimney of lump on top of that, get your temp where you want it and cook away. 

The ignited lump purifies the smoke As it passes through and gets as close as an offset /wood burning out as i have found. I can barely tell the difference anymore. Cooked on my kbq last night and couldn’t really tell the difference. Maybe a tiny bit but not enough for most to notice."


I've done this with success a number of times.  I would add 2 comments.

1) I dig a hole in the center of the unlit lump and fill it with the wood chunks - then put the lit chimney of lump on top of it.

2) This seems to really only be for low/slow cooks.  At least that was my interpretation.

sorry botch- been taking a little break from the interwebz lately and just heard about this from a little birdie.

This is the way I do it. I do just use it for low and slow but should work on hot fast too (you won't see any smoke on hot fast but it's there). I would add a few more chunks and bury them a little deeper if you are going to run a hot fire. Harry Soo has some good videos on youtube about this technique. He basically puts the wood at the very bottom of his firebox, pours lump on top of that and runs a 350 degree fire in his WSM's or ceramic cookers to cook competition bbq. I don't like cooking that hot so I brought the wood chunks up a little higher in the box and cook at like 250-275. Seems to clean up the smoke quite a bit.

If I read your post right, it sounds like you are lighting the lump in the egg and then dumping more ignited lump on top of that. You don't light the egg first. Bury the wood (I use chunks for this) under a little unlit lump and dump the screaming hot lump from the chimney on top off that to light the egg and provide the layer of hot lump that the smoke must now pass through to get up and out.

It does not provide the same clean blue smoke as a fully oxygenated wood fire will but it's as close as you can get with a choked down lump fire.

I'll shoot a video of it some day when I'm doing bbq again (it's been forever) and post it on here.

Botch

thanks, @The Cen-Tex; no problem that you've been off-line for a bit, you're probably healthier for it.  
 
No, I'm not dumping lit lump on my unburned lump; I just buried one chunk of wood over to the side of my existing lump, poured fresh lump on top and leveled it, and then lit it in the center with a single paraffin-square thingie; twenty minutes later, I had a red spot in the center of my lump, and thick smoke boiling out from under the unlit lump to the side where the smokewood was; it just catches fire at a lower temp than the lump.  
 
I'm still planning to drop the next chunk of smokewood down to the bottom, below my KAB, and light up top in the center, again.  I'm betting once the smokewood catches fire, there will be some lit lump directly above it, and I'll get the best result an Egg is capable of.  
 
But, I have enough leftover Birria Taco beef to keep me in leftovers, I'm guessing, until mid-March  so it may be awhile... 

NDG

Ive been waiting for this - thanks.