Love my city

TEXASBGE2018

JohnInCarolina said:

Wow.

Wow, what John? Is everything I said wrong? Then please, enlighten me. I want to learn.

HeavyG

TEXASBGE2018 said:

dmchicago said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

dmchicago said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

It's friday so why not. Attention liberals, What is the end game if "liberals" have their Utopia?

Is it that we all get free everything and everyone can marry anything or anyone they want? That racism,bigotry,sexism somehow cease to exist? That "white privilege" suddenly turns to "colored privilege"? What is the honest desired end game? People on the extreme left and right are always whining about the other side. Lewis Black says it best: "Democrat or Republican, American Politics is a bowl of sh*t staring back at itself in the mirror" Please explain liberal utopia to this confused Libertarian....

I'm a Democrat. I'm not sure what a "liberal" is. At least these days where it seems to be used as an insult.

There is no "utopia" that I'm looking for or am aware of.

I don't want "free everything". For example Bernie's free college is a bad idea. I don't want to pay for other people's kids to go to college so they can work at Starbucks. I would be in favor of free Trade Schools. Or at least some assistance to help pay for it. We need more skilled tradesfolk, not Business Majors.

People...that's PEOPLE should be able to marry whomever they choose. I'm not aware of people wanting to marry a thing, at least not in large numbers.

Don't understand the "white privilege" remarks so can't comment.

And Lewis Black is funny as hell.

Again, I'm just listing some things I've heard others say. I'm asking the questions because I want to know. There has to be an end game for a political viewpoint so what is the liberal side. I'm well aware of the conservative side. I use liberal as a term not an insult. My brother is a liberal. I don't call him a liberal to insult him. He made fun of Ted Cruz the other day on the 4th of July and I laughed along with him because what he said was true and funny.

Then define "liberal" as you understand it.

A liberal as I understand it is someone who wants increased government regulation and increased government participation in the private lives of others. Someone who wants the government making decisions for people instead of them making decisions for themselves. Someone who discards traditional values. Someone who feels taxing people more to pay for the lack of effort of others is fine. Someone who feels a countries border is fluid and should be open to everyone and anyone to "better society". Someone who feels the Constitution is a living and breathing document that should be changed on the whim of what's trendy at the moment rather than appreciating it for what it is and interpreting it the way it was originally written. There also seems to be a very prominent "mob rule" mentality with people who are "liberal".  Are those enough examples?

Reading all that the word "poppycock" comes to mind.

HeavyG

TEXASBGE2018 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Wow.

Wow, what John? Is everything I said wrong? Then please, enlighten me. I want to learn.

No you don't.

If you really wanted to learn there are far better ways/resources than a "cooking forum" on the internet.

Eoin

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Again, I didn't intend for it to be trolly. I just get so sick of people complain about Trump, or "Trumptards" but when you ask them for their opinion of what they would like to see it almost always resorts to them throwing it back at you instead of providing ideas to discuss. That's one of the reasons I like @JohnInCarolina so much because at least when he argues he does it in a fun way and actually can back up his statements with information.

If you want to know why people here don't like Trump, it's because of his sexist and racist comments and general belittling of anyone who doesn't agree with him, including other international leaders. He has no class.

You have to remember that as foreigners, we don't have any affiliation to a party to excuse Trump's behaviour, or any affiliation in the other direction to dislike him. It's purely him, based on what he says and does.

GATraveller

HeavyG said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

dmchicago said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

dmchicago said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

It's friday so why not. Attention liberals, What is the end game if "liberals" have their Utopia?

Is it that we all get free everything and everyone can marry anything or anyone they want? That racism,bigotry,sexism somehow cease to exist? That "white privilege" suddenly turns to "colored privilege"? What is the honest desired end game? People on the extreme left and right are always whining about the other side. Lewis Black says it best: "Democrat or Republican, American Politics is a bowl of sh*t staring back at itself in the mirror" Please explain liberal utopia to this confused Libertarian....

I'm a Democrat. I'm not sure what a "liberal" is. At least these days where it seems to be used as an insult.

There is no "utopia" that I'm looking for or am aware of.

I don't want "free everything". For example Bernie's free college is a bad idea. I don't want to pay for other people's kids to go to college so they can work at Starbucks. I would be in favor of free Trade Schools. Or at least some assistance to help pay for it. We need more skilled tradesfolk, not Business Majors.

People...that's PEOPLE should be able to marry whomever they choose. I'm not aware of people wanting to marry a thing, at least not in large numbers.

Don't understand the "white privilege" remarks so can't comment.

And Lewis Black is funny as hell.

Again, I'm just listing some things I've heard others say. I'm asking the questions because I want to know. There has to be an end game for a political viewpoint so what is the liberal side. I'm well aware of the conservative side. I use liberal as a term not an insult. My brother is a liberal. I don't call him a liberal to insult him. He made fun of Ted Cruz the other day on the 4th of July and I laughed along with him because what he said was true and funny.

Then define "liberal" as you understand it.

A liberal as I understand it is someone who wants increased government regulation and increased government participation in the private lives of others. Someone who wants the government making decisions for people instead of them making decisions for themselves. Someone who discards traditional values. Someone who feels taxing people more to pay for the lack of effort of others is fine. Someone who feels a countries border is fluid and should be open to everyone and anyone to "better society". Someone who feels the Constitution is a living and breathing document that should be changed on the whim of what's trendy at the moment rather than appreciating it for what it is and interpreting it the way it was originally written. There also seems to be a very prominent "mob rule" mentality with people who are "liberal".  Are those enough examples?

Reading all that the word "poppycock" comes to mind.

I fully respect your right to have c0ck (in any form) on your mind.  

Eoin said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Again, I didn't intend for it to be trolly. I just get so sick of people complain about Trump, or "Trumptards" but when you ask them for their opinion of what they would like to see it almost always resorts to them throwing it back at you instead of providing ideas to discuss. That's one of the reasons I like @JohnInCarolina so much because at least when he argues he does it in a fun way and actually can back up his statements with information.

If you want to know why people here don't like Trump, it's because of his sexist and racist comments and general belittling of anyone who doesn't agree with him, including other international leaders. He has no class.

You have to remember that as foreigners, we don't have any affiliation to a party to excuse Trump's behaviour, or any affiliation in the other direction to dislike him. It's purely him, based on what he says and does.

I think this is a valid argument. 

JohnInCarolina

TEXASBGE2018 said:

A liberal as I understand it is someone who wants increased government regulation and increased government participation in the private lives of others. Someone who wants the government making decisions for people instead of them making decisions for themselves. Someone who discards traditional values. Someone who feels taxing people more to pay for the lack of effort of others is fine. Someone who feels a countries border is fluid and should be open to everyone and anyone to "better society". Someone who feels the Constitution is a living and breathing document that should be changed on the whim of what's trendy at the moment rather than appreciating it for what it is and interpreting it the way it was originally written. There also seems to be a very prominent "mob rule" mentality with people who are "liberal".  Are those enough examples?

Maybe I'm just not actually all that liberal, I'm not sure, but a lot of this struck me as much more of a conservative's (or libertarian) stereotypical view of what liberals believe.  I think it's way off in general.  

I think government has a fairly important role to play in ensuring the safety and security of citizens, but I don't want it participating in private lives.  I'm not sure what it means for the government to make decisions for people.  I'm not sure I've ever seen something that would really constitute that, unless you view making certain activities illegal as effectively doing that.  

Taxing people more to pay for the lack of effort on others?  Man.  I've never had that view and don't know anyone who does.  

Changing the constitution on a whim?  Again, that's off.  I do think that society has evolved and that our laws should evolve accordingly.  But that's not quite the same thing as saying the constitution should be changed on a whim.  

And then a "mob rule" mentality?  Jesus man.  Where do you get this stuff?

As for what a liberal utopia looks like, I'm really not sure.  In general I'd just be happy if we made an effort to take care of the sick and the poor, if we had a better social safety net, things like that.  I don't think middle class kids should have to take out the equivalent of a home mortgage to go to college.  I'd prefer we spend far less on our military, and invest much more on education, public infrastructure, science and technology, and medical research.  In my view, a government-run health-care system as a first tier would make a lot more sense than what we're currently doing, and it's basically what just about every other first-world country does.  There's a lot more I could say here but just have a lot of other stuff going on today, so that's about all for now.  

TEXASBGE2018

HeavyG said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Wow.

Wow, what John? Is everything I said wrong? Then please, enlighten me. I want to learn.

No you don't.

If you really wanted to learn there are far better ways/resources than a "cooking forum" on the internet.

Ahh, gotcha. I lied. I don't want to learn. You are right. Of course there are better ways and resources but clearly none of the more "left leaning" people on here care about having a legit conversation when they post an article that was clearly meant to create a converstation about it. It's funny how the pattern of these threads always brings forth the same 5-6 more left leaning people and the same 5-6 right leaning people.

Eoin

TEXASBGE2018 said:

HeavyG said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Wow.

Wow, what John? Is everything I said wrong? Then please, enlighten me. I want to learn.

No you don't.

If you really wanted to learn there are far better ways/resources than a "cooking forum" on the internet.

Ahh, gotcha. I lied. I don't want to learn. You are right. Of course there are better ways and resources but clearly none of the more "left leaning" people on here care about having a legit conversation when they post an article that was clearly meant to create a converstation about it. It's funny how the pattern of these threads always brings forth the same 5-6 more left leaning people and the same 5-6 right leaning people.

Thinking Trump is an ass doesn't make me a leftie. I regard a lot of Trump's economic policies as left of centre.  The sad thing in the last US election for me was that both candidates seem to have lost faith in the free market and want to have more control over it. The US should be a beacon of free market values, not a protectionist enclave.

TEXASBGE2018

Eoin said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Again, I didn't intend for it to be trolly. I just get so sick of people complain about Trump, or "Trumptards" but when you ask them for their opinion of what they would like to see it almost always resorts to them throwing it back at you instead of providing ideas to discuss. That's one of the reasons I like @JohnInCarolina so much because at least when he argues he does it in a fun way and actually can back up his statements with information.

If you want to know why people here don't like Trump, it's because of his sexist and racist comments and general belittling of anyone who doesn't agree with him, including other international leaders. He has no class.

You have to remember that as foreigners, we don't have any affiliation to a party to excuse Trump's behaviour, or any affiliation in the other direction to dislike him. It's purely him, based on what he says and does.

Ok, I can agree with the "sexist" part given the stupid comment he made in private about grabbing women by the "P" to another guy. It's as he called it "locker room talk" Guaranteed 90% of men have done the same at one point growing up. But what has he said that was racist? And since we like using dictionary definitions. Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another. When has Trump ever said that white people are superior to others? Also when has he said "all brown people" or "all black people" are bad?  He has made comments about certain nationalities which are pretty insensitive. I get it, he is very direct in his delivery, I stated that earlier but he's not a bullsh*tter. The world needs more non bullsh*tters in it. People hide behind a façade of politeness and political correctness and think something totally different in private and then bash others in public about it. He's just the 1st in modern history to flat out say it. I guess to some that's looked at as "belittling"

TEXASBGE2018

JohnInCarolina said:

Maybe I'm just not actually all that liberal, I'm not sure, but a lot of this struck me as much more of a conservative's (or libertarian) stereotypical view of what liberals believe.  I think it's way off in general.  

I think government has a fairly important role to play in ensuring the safety and security of citizens, but I don't want it participating in private lives.  I'm not sure what it means for the government to make decisions for people.  I'm not sure I've ever seen something that would really constitute that, unless you view making certain activities illegal as effectively doing that.  

Taxing people more to pay for the lack of effort on others?  Man.  I've never had that view and don't know anyone who does.  

Changing the constitution on a whim?  Again, that's off.  I do think that society has evolved and that our laws should evolve accordingly.  But that's not quite the same thing as saying the constitution should be changed on a whim.  

And then a "mob rule" mentality?  Jesus man.  Where do you get this stuff?

As for what a liberal utopia looks like, I'm really not sure.  In general I'd just be happy if we made an effort to take care of the sick and the poor, if we had a better social safety net, things like that.  I don't think middle class kids should have to take out the equivalent of a home mortgage to go to college.  I'd prefer we spend far less on our military, and invest much more on education, public infrastructure, science and technology, and medical research.  In my view, a government-run health-care system as a first tier would make a lot more sense than what we're currently doing, and it's basically what just about every other first-world country does.  There's a lot more I could say here but just have a lot of other stuff going on today, so that's about all for now.  

See, valid argument. I respect that. I will say that based on your statements above you shouldn't consider yourself as a liberal as much as slightly left of center and that's totally fine. As to some of the things you disagree with me on.

"Mob Rule", dude look at all these protests lately calling for gun control. People walking out into the middle of the highway to stop cars for hours causing a public disturbance. I could give you 50 more examples in the last year that have been "mob rule" mentality and of the 50, 48 were started by left leaning folks.

As far as taxes. Do you not know who Bernie Sanders is? Elizabeth Warren, about 200 more Democrats in Congress. They all want higher taxes on not only corporations but individuals as well. And its not to pay for the single mom with 3 kids that is scraping by. It's to institute things like Government ran Healthcare that will in the end result in them controlling when/if you get the help you need. Also things like free college.

As far as College tuition goes, you are right. Its way too expensive. Given your profession then I suggest you remove being tenured and take a what I assume would be a large pay cut and get paid closer to what a high school teacher makes. Maybe if everyone else in that profession followed your footsteps college wouldn't cost $100,000. Also, on that note. College while expensive shouldn't be free. Because if its free then its close to useless. Its just the next step after High School. It makes it so everyone has it and therefore there is nothing special about it. There is no reason for a company to pay you more money for getting that extra education.

TEXASBGE2018

Eoin said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

HeavyG said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Wow.

Wow, what John? Is everything I said wrong? Then please, enlighten me. I want to learn.

No you don't.

If you really wanted to learn there are far better ways/resources than a "cooking forum" on the internet.

Ahh, gotcha. I lied. I don't want to learn. You are right. Of course there are better ways and resources but clearly none of the more "left leaning" people on here care about having a legit conversation when they post an article that was clearly meant to create a converstation about it. It's funny how the pattern of these threads always brings forth the same 5-6 more left leaning people and the same 5-6 right leaning people.

Thinking Trump is an ass doesn't make me a leftie. I regard a lot of Trump's economic policies as left of centre.  The sad thing in the last US election for me was that both candidates seem to have lost faith in the free market and want to have more control over it. The US should be a beacon of free market values, not a protectionist enclave.

You are right protectionist policies are a slippery slope. We are sliding towards going way overboard, but also countries have taken advantage of our good faith and free market for far too long. They have sucked money from us without providing much in the way of repayment either through actual money or goods or services. They just suckle at the teat until the milk starts going dry. Don't you think we should be able to ask for at least 75% reimbursement? Cause right now we are getting about 25%

TEXASBGE2018

I'll take some advice I heard and leave you all to enjoy your Friday. Have a nice weekend everyone. Go do some egging. I won't be replying to anything else on this thread.

nolaegghead

Now that it's established with populist evidence, the real question is why do we have such a naive, ignorant electorate among first world industrialized nations? 

GATraveller

Yea.....I think the "mob rule" mentality is quite evident on most college campuses any time you have a conservative slated to speak.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOGco2HBdRY

johnnyp

TEXASBGE2018 said:

johnnyp said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

johnnyp said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

It's friday so why not. Attention liberals, What is the end game if "liberals" have their Utopia?

Is it that we all get free everything and everyone can marry anything or anyone they want? That racism,bigotry,sexism somehow cease to exist? That "white privilege" suddenly turns to "colored privilege"? What is the honest desired end game? People on the extreme left and right are always whining about the other side. Lewis Black says it best: "Democrat or Republican, American Politics is a bowl of sh*t staring back at itself in the mirror" Please explain liberal utopia to this confused Libertarian....

c'mon man. 

I didn't start this. I am simply asking honest questions. I want to understand it.

you 100%  started this

No, the person that posted a thread about a giant trump balloon that looks like a baby with the statement "I love my city" and then others that made comments and provided links to articles are the ones who started it. I simply asked a question that clearly you got all butthurt about. I'm assuming because you either have no answers to the questions or if anyone has a counter point that you disagree with you get mad about it. I'm not being vulgar or mean. Maybe provide answers to my questions so I can better understand your point of view. Maybe provide the same response that you provided to me to the others on here that posted things. You won't I'm assuming because you agree with them. I'm not gonna be rude and argue others view today. I simply want to understand them.

Why are you so angry?  My dude, take a chill pill.  

The guy who posted about the balloon is a Brit.  I'm sure he gives limited f@$ks about American politics.  When does it make sense to argue politics with someone outside of your Country? 

And that effin' balloon is objectively funny.

Eoin

GATraveller said:

Yea.....I think the "mob rule" mentality is quite evident on most college campuses any time you have a conservative slated to speak.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOGco2HBdRY

In the UK, we have a big 'no platform' movement that tries to stop any views being aired that they disagree with. Not sure why students can't make their own minds up.

nolaegghead

I think we all need to take some lessons in problem solving.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE4LVSESyXc

Foghorn

"A liberal as I understand it is someone who wants increased government regulation and increased government participation in the private lives of others. Someone who wants the government making decisions for people instead of them making decisions for themselves. Someone who discards traditional values. Someone who feels taxing people more to pay for the lack of effort of others is fine. Someone who feels a countries border is fluid and should be open to everyone and anyone to "better society". Someone who feels the Constitution is a living and breathing document that should be changed on the whim of what's trendy at the moment rather than appreciating it for what it is and interpreting it the way it was originally written. There also seems to be a very prominent "mob rule" mentality with people who are "liberal".  Are those enough examples?"


I'll take a stab at this just for kicks - from the well-intentioned liberal's perspective.  I have to preface this by stating that I don't agree with everything I'm about to write.  Politically I sit in the middle and have voted about 60% Republican and 40% Democrat in my life.  However, I married into a very liberal family so I have heard many of these issues discussed over the dinner table.


A liberal is someone who recognizes that in some areas of society, giving people freedom of choice is failing and therefore the government needs to step in with some regulation.  (think health care where most of the uninsured could actually afford insurance but choose not to in order to have nicer cars and bigger TVs, etc - and then when they get sick or injured the rest of us have to pay for it). 

Someone who recognizes that this country was founded on the basis of freedom of religion and separation of church and state because while we were founded by Christians, we were running FROM Christians.

Someone who is happy to contribute more in taxes to help others who aren't as fortunate.

Someone who recognizes that our country is built on/by immigrants (and is stronger for it) and feels compassion for those who are less fortunate - even if they are from another country.

Someone who recognizes the genius of our founding fathers in writing the Constitution as a living and breathing document that should be changed when appropriate - that's why we have constitutional amendments. 

There also seems to be a very prominent democratic (in the dictionary sense of the word) mentality with people who are "liberal".  




Again, I don't agree with everything above.  And I recognize that idealism must be limited by fiscal reality - which is what I think a lot of liberals don't recognize.

But if you really want to understand a liberal mindset, you have to see it in positive terms like it is written above.

Your question about the end game is really important.  That's where I think a lot of politicians on both sides of the aisle get lost - but more so on the left.


I think that part of the problem in having people understand the people on the other side of the aisle is that the 90% in the middle aren't the voices that get heard.  As a result each side hears (and points to) the 5% fringe element of the opposing party as the example of what they represent.  

nolaegghead

As an intellectual progressive, I can sum up my position (in general by methodology) succinctly.

Policy should be determined based on evidence-based best practices, research and science using the scientific principle, analytics mined from historical data and with the mind-set that we are stronger together than we are with an anarchic philosophy as a ideological model of the "individual first".  Policy should be modified based on lessons learned and fine tuned over time.  Goals should be long-term, not short term.

The enemies of an efficient, successful and free society are demagoguery, propaganda, strong men,  fear-mongering, theocracy and special interests. 

I'm pretty busy but I enjoy talking about politics and history, and to hear the whiny lamentation of any and all pathetic debaters.  Or to have them change my mind, which, with a convincing argument, I would be happy to do.

nolaegghead

Foghorn, his family (two of them, at least) and I have had some spirited debates over dinner and, while we don't always agree, we respect each other.

frazzdaddy

JohnInCarolina said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

A liberal as I understand it is someone who wants increased government regulation and increased government participation in the private lives of others. Someone who wants the government making decisions for people instead of them making decisions for themselves. Someone who discards traditional values. Someone who feels taxing people more to pay for the lack of effort of others is fine. Someone who feels a countries border is fluid and should be open to everyone and anyone to "better society". Someone who feels the Constitution is a living and breathing document that should be changed on the whim of what's trendy at the moment rather than appreciating it for what it is and interpreting it the way it was originally written. There also seems to be a very prominent "mob rule" mentality with people who are "liberal".  Are those enough examples?

Maybe I'm just not actually all that liberal, I'm not sure, but a lot of this struck me as much more of a conservative's (or libertarian) stereotypical view of what liberals believe.  I think it's way off in general.  

I think government has a fairly important role to play in ensuring the safety and security of citizens, but I don't want it participating in private lives.  I'm not sure what it means for the government to make decisions for people.  I'm not sure I've ever seen something that would really constitute that, unless you view making certain activities illegal as effectively doing that.  

Taxing people more to pay for the lack of effort on others?  Man.  I've never had that view and don't know anyone who does.  

Changing the constitution on a whim?  Again, that's off.  I do think that society has evolved and that our laws should evolve accordingly.  But that's not quite the same thing as saying the constitution should be changed on a whim.  

And then a "mob rule" mentality?  Jesus man.  Where do you get this stuff?

As for what a liberal utopia looks like, I'm really not sure.  In general I'd just be happy if we made an effort to take care of the sick and the poor, if we had a better social safety net, things like that.  I don't think middle class kids should have to take out the equivalent of a home mortgage to go to college.  I'd prefer we spend far less on our military, and invest much more on education, public infrastructure, science and technology, and medical research.  In my view, a government-run health-care system as a first tier would make a lot more sense than what we're currently doing, and it's basically what just about every other first-world country does.  There's a lot more I could say here but just have a lot of other stuff going on today, so that's about all for now.  

Well said John. I feel recently due to our political antics, any respect the rest of the world had for us as leaders has slipped . In the past we have "walked softly and carried a big stick" I feel our leaders do not fact check before they get in front of microphones. I guess it isn't that important to get it right anymore. We used to talk to each other and work things out in congress. We are so polarized we are paralyzed. That is both sides by the way.  

blasting

That balloon is funny stuff - fly it high.  What i don't like is, if the same balloon has been made for Obama it would have been decried as racist.  If Hillary had won, a fat diapered balloon would have been sexist.  

GATraveller

I think one place I would actually like to see more governmental control is with mental health......since I think they're the ones who created the crisis.

FearlessTheEggNoob

London - the land of crap food, terrorist attacks on the disarmed, and bad teeth. That about sums it up.

Only two areas of interest exist there that can seize my attention, Kate and Meghan...and one is an import.

nolaegghead

blasting said:

That balloon is funny stuff - fly it high.  What i don't like is, if the same balloon has been made for Obama it would have been decried as racist.  If Hillary had won, a fat diapered balloon would have been sexist.  

There are probably always going to be some people that take extreme positions, regardless of which side the balloon is made for.  Plus, context is everything. 

nolaegghead

FearlessTheEggNoob said:

London - the land of crap food, terrorist attacks on the disarmed, and bad teeth. That about sums it up.

Only two areas of interest exist there that can seize my attention, Kate and Meghan...and one is an import.

No one cares what you think.  

DoubleEgger

frazzdaddy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

A liberal as I understand it is someone who wants increased government regulation and increased government participation in the private lives of others. Someone who wants the government making decisions for people instead of them making decisions for themselves. Someone who discards traditional values. Someone who feels taxing people more to pay for the lack of effort of others is fine. Someone who feels a countries border is fluid and should be open to everyone and anyone to "better society". Someone who feels the Constitution is a living and breathing document that should be changed on the whim of what's trendy at the moment rather than appreciating it for what it is and interpreting it the way it was originally written. There also seems to be a very prominent "mob rule" mentality with people who are "liberal".  Are those enough examples?

Maybe I'm just not actually all that liberal, I'm not sure, but a lot of this struck me as much more of a conservative's (or libertarian) stereotypical view of what liberals believe.  I think it's way off in general.  

I think government has a fairly important role to play in ensuring the safety and security of citizens, but I don't want it participating in private lives.  I'm not sure what it means for the government to make decisions for people.  I'm not sure I've ever seen something that would really constitute that, unless you view making certain activities illegal as effectively doing that.  

Taxing people more to pay for the lack of effort on others?  Man.  I've never had that view and don't know anyone who does.  

Changing the constitution on a whim?  Again, that's off.  I do think that society has evolved and that our laws should evolve accordingly.  But that's not quite the same thing as saying the constitution should be changed on a whim.  

And then a "mob rule" mentality?  Jesus man.  Where do you get this stuff?

As for what a liberal utopia looks like, I'm really not sure.  In general I'd just be happy if we made an effort to take care of the sick and the poor, if we had a better social safety net, things like that.  I don't think middle class kids should have to take out the equivalent of a home mortgage to go to college.  I'd prefer we spend far less on our military, and invest much more on education, public infrastructure, science and technology, and medical research.  In my view, a government-run health-care system as a first tier would make a lot more sense than what we're currently doing, and it's basically what just about every other first-world country does.  There's a lot more I could say here but just have a lot of other stuff going on today, so that's about all for now.  

Well said John. I feel recently due to our political antics, any respect the rest of the world had for us as leaders has slipped . In the past we have "walked softly and carried a big stick" I feel our leaders do not fact check before they get in front of microphones. I guess it isn't that important to get it right anymore. We used to talk to each other and work things out in congress. We are so polarized we are paralyzed. That is both sides by the way.  

I don’t think politicians have ever fact checked themselves. It’s just a lot easier to check their statements in the internet age. 

GATraveller

FearlessTheEggNoob said:

London - the land of crap food, terrorist attacks on the disarmed, and bad teeth. That about sums it up.

Only two areas of interest exist there that can seize my attention, Kate and Meghan...and one is an import.

Probably would have been better to leave your mouth shut and keep us wondering if you were a moron.

FearlessTheEggNoob

I think some folks have been triggered!!!

(see how lame that sounds)

nolaegghead

Naw.  I'm TIGGERED, tho.