Wild Yeast

lkapigian

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I made my 1st starter about 2 weeks ago. I fed it daily for 5 days until nice and bubbly then because it was going to be a week or so before I was going to use it, I put it in the fridge. I took it out of the fridge the day before I created my levain so it sat out on the counter overnight before I made the levain. So after speaking with @caliking I decided to try my hand at baking a loaf this past weekend. While the taste was great the loaf just didn't rise. I had lots of air pockets but no rise. Great color also. Any ideas? I'm thinking I may have something going on with my starter since it was only out a day before I made the levain. I noticed when I went to proof it in my banneton for 4 hours on the counter after my initial rise it hardly changed size. I would have taken a picture but I was too ashamed. Any thoughts?

Do you have a picture of it? I have found ( when it comes to poor oven spring) if the starter is good, paases the float Test then it , in my case, not been shaped properly, over proofed or both. But I am way new to this...when I thought I was shaping well. I wasn't ...now I do a presale and final 

TEXASBGE2018

theyolksonyou said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I made my 1st starter about 2 weeks ago. I fed it daily for 5 days until nice and bubbly then because it was going to be a week or so before I was going to use it, I put it in the fridge. I took it out of the fridge the day before I created my levain so it sat out on the counter overnight before I made the levain. So after speaking with @caliking I decided to try my hand at baking a loaf this past weekend. While the taste was great the loaf just didn't rise. I had lots of air pockets but no rise. Great color also. Any ideas? I'm thinking I may have something going on with my starter since it was only out a day before I made the levain. I noticed when I went to proof it in my banneton for 4 hours on the counter after my initial rise it hardly changed size. I would have taken a picture but I was too ashamed. Any thoughts?

Did you feed it that one day it was in the counter, or did you use under starter?

Yes, I did feed it the day it was on the counter.

TEXASBGE2018

lkapigian said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I made my 1st starter about 2 weeks ago. I fed it daily for 5 days until nice and bubbly then because it was going to be a week or so before I was going to use it, I put it in the fridge. I took it out of the fridge the day before I created my levain so it sat out on the counter overnight before I made the levain. So after speaking with @caliking I decided to try my hand at baking a loaf this past weekend. While the taste was great the loaf just didn't rise. I had lots of air pockets but no rise. Great color also. Any ideas? I'm thinking I may have something going on with my starter since it was only out a day before I made the levain. I noticed when I went to proof it in my banneton for 4 hours on the counter after my initial rise it hardly changed size. I would have taken a picture but I was too ashamed. Any thoughts?

Do you have a picture of it? I have found ( when it comes to poor oven spring) if the starter is good, paases the float Test then it , in my case, not been shaped properly, over proofed or both.

I didn't take a picture, I was too embarrassed. I sat the starter on the counter and fed it and let it sit overnight. Then the next morning I made the levain. I let the levain sit for 4 hours on the counter. Then I made the loaf and folded it 4 times over a period of 2 hours. I shaped the dough and put it in the banneton for 4 hours then went to bake that night.

TEXASBGE2018

This is the closest picture I can find to my result.

lkapigian

I have found my starter takes 2 feedings out of the fridge, and it's ready about 4 to 6 hours after the second feeding ..try taking a little of the starter and see if it will float, this helped me ...

theyolksonyou

lkapigian said:

I have found my starter takes 2 feedings out of the fridge, and it's ready about 4 to 6 hours after the second feeding ..try taking a little of the starter and see if it will float, this helped me ...

I leave my levian out 12 hrs.  Not that I’m an expert by any means.  The first loaves I made I rushed it and had results similar to yours. 

lkapigian

theyolksonyou said:

lkapigian said:

I have found my starter takes 2 feedings out of the fridge, and it's ready about 4 to 6 hours after the second feeding ..try taking a little of the starter and see if it will float, this helped me ...

I leave my levian out 12 hrs.  Not that I’m an expert by any means.  The first loaves I made I rushed it and had results similar to yours. 

Agreed, mine probably a bit longer out of the fridge ...i start at least a day ahead

lkapigian

TEXASBGE2018 said:

This is the closest picture I can find to my result.

I've had that result ... not bad looking loaf , just make sure it's active and shaped will...make sure it has no place to go but up...congrats !

TEXASBGE2018

lkapigian said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

This is the closest picture I can find to my result.

I've had that result ... not bad looking loaf , just make sure it's active and shaped will...make sure it has no place to go but up...congrats !

Ya taste was perfect. Just didn't get the rise like I had hoped. Keep on trying I guess.

caliking

Your first loaf sounds like it turned out better than mine, so don't despair!

How much did the dough rise after the bulk rise? Its not expected to rise as much as yeast dough, especially if you have it in the fridge. 

Also, proofing for 4hrs is too long in my kitchen, but my house is warmer than most (76-78°F). Use the finger poke to check how your dough is proofing - poke the dough and note how the indentation fills back. If it springs back rapidly, its underproofed. If it doesn't really spring back to fill the indentation back, its overproofed. If it springs back in a relaxed way, and almost fills the indentation back - Goldilocks!

Shaping makes a big difference too, and I have only recently started to appreciate this. My shaping game needs work. Watching vids on YouTube will help. 

TEXASBGE2018

caliking said:

Your first loaf sounds like it turned out better than mine, so don't despair!

How much did the dough rise after the bulk rise? Its not expected to rise as much as yeast dough, especially if you have it in the fridge. 

Also, proofing for 4hrs is too long in my kitchen, but my house is warmer than most (76-78°F). Use the finger poke to check how your dough is proofing - poke the dough and note how the indentation fills back. If it springs back rapidly, its underproofed. If it doesn't really spring back to fill the indentation back, its overproofed. If it springs back in a relaxed way, and almost fills the indentation back - Goldilocks!

Shaping makes a big difference too, and I have only recently started to appreciate this. My shaping game needs work. Watching vids on YouTube will help. 

It didn't seem to rise much after the bulk rise at all. Even the bulk rise didn't seem to be drastic. I'll try the poke test. I'm making another loaf Sunday so I took my starter out last night and fed it. Hoping by Saturday I'm sitting pretty.

caliking

It sounds like your bulk rise didn’t quite take off. You should see at least a 50% rise. 

TEXASBGE2018

Ok same result as last time. It was way better in the bulk rise this time. Almost doubled in size. So not sure what’s going on. My levain was nice and bubbly this time. Took out the starter 2 days before I made the levain and fed it each day. I will say that this time instead of Unbleached flour I used bread flour. Could that have made the difference this time? Only got about 2.5” rise

NPHuskerFL

@TEXASBGE2018 gluten structure looks weak. Appears it also may have been sliced to early. How was the flavor?  We've all been there. Wildlife's gotta eat too and I've fed sourdough to plenty of our woodland friends.

blind99

my starter was smelling like ripe, dirty socks last weekend.  Ugh.  multiple refreshes, it still smelled nasty - not like something i'd want to cook with.  i finally changed the container it was in, and one or two more refreshes and it's awesome again.  

was it the container, harboring grossness?  or can the starter itself change that much from time to time?

SonVolt

I haven't tackled bread on the egg yet, but am pretty satisfied with my country loafs in the oven. What changes would I need to make when adapted to the egg? I typically plop the dough into a preheated cast iron dutch oven w/lid to trap the steam and create more oven spring. Is that still needed on an egg? 

lkapigian

^^^^^^That Is Awesome Spring^^^^^^ All WildYeast???

SonVolt

Heck no, a jar of RapidRise from the supermarket. 

blind99

Adapted from a FWSY recipe to include Rob the Blob. Got this down to less than 20 minutes of hands on time. Mmmmmm bread:

HogHeaven

Bakers percentage made easy... 
https://stellaculinary.com/cooking-videos/stella-bread/sb-001-what-bakers-percentage

HogHeaven

Clutch227 said:

My issue is that I bake the bread and it tastes great, truly awesome bread for some good butter and honey, but sometimes I get these huge holes in the center



This has been my worst loaf by far but it highlights the issue.  Very disappointing.  I have had much better loaves and one perfect loaf but of course the perfect loaf is the one I have no notes on.  Not sure if this is shaping technique, proofing times, or what.  

I don’t know if you’ve already figured this problem out yet?  Your problem is how you’re handling the dough after bulk fermentation. 

During bulk fermentation your dough rises because the yeast in your starter is manufacturing lots Co2. The problem is during that process the Co2 is not evenly distributed thoughout your dough. It tends to create some big pockets. Those pockets must be redistributed in your dough during pre-shaping and final shaping, or those large pockets will continue getting larger during final proofing and during the Oven spring process... giving you those big Mouse size holes you see in your crumb. This problem is so prevalent to beginners it has its own descriptive name Mouse holes... big enough holes for mice to climb through. 

Biginners often hesitate to to degas, also known as redistributing the Co2 evenly in their dough after the bulk fermentation process because it took them a long time to get that nice rise.

Don’t worry about the degassing step it’s a step that can’t be eliminated. Besides... that’s exactly why you have the final proofing step. Final proofing is intended to be the final rise - to reinflate your dough after the aggressive handling it suffered during the final shaping step. 

Here’s a great video that will demonstrate these steps nicely... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RgqPli_sLLM

Another side note... he said in the video let the dough final proof for 1 hour. Guys like him assume your ambient temperature is about 72 degrees. 

Be aware that the final proofing time will very considerably depending on the temperature of where you are final proofing your dough. For every 17°F Change in your ambient temperature your dough will react differently. If your ambient temperature is 89° you final rise will happen in 1/2 hours instead of 1 hour. If your ambient temperature is 55°F your final rise will take about 2 hours. 

I personally dont don’t go by time. I go by appearance... once the dough has increased in size by 50%... I give it the poke test. The poke test never fails! 

jtcBoynton

Also remember that we are dealing with live cultures of yeast and bacteria.  We each have different strains and ratios of strains.  Some are more vigorous growers.  The strains of yeast for commercial packaging have been selected for their rapid growth.  We also provide varying environmental conditions that impact the health/growth of our yeasts.

Randall_Lee

Need some help, trying to make my first wild yeast. Have been following the basic King Arthur flour recipe, been working for 6-7 days. The started has gone from a sticky paste to more of a very heavy cake batter. Very little growth and lack of bubbles, has a pretty good aroma to it. 
Am I pushing it as time goes or is this just a dead batch that hasn't found it's wild side?

NPHuskerFL

Randall_Lee said:

Need some help, trying to make my first wild yeast. Have been following the basic King Arthur flour recipe, been working for 6-7 days. The started has gone from a sticky paste to more of a very heavy cake batter. Very little growth and lack of bubbles, has a pretty good aroma to it. 
Am I pushing it as time goes or is this just a dead batch that hasn't found it's wild side?

Try disregarding most of it and then hammer it with a heavy feeding.

Randall_Lee

Thanks NPH been tossing all but a heavy 1/2 cup and replacing with 1 cup of flour but been the same for days. Will give it a try in the morning.

NPHuskerFL

I haven't baked a loaf since before our kitchen & bathrooms remodel.
Scale is still packed up somewhere. 
By feel loaf.  Muscle memory if you will.
Sourdough>>>KABF, stone-ground WW & WW spelt at around 80ish hydration if I were a betting man. Cold bulk and proofing total 5 days. Didn't get near as many pics as I had planned on. FBugs everywhere and already 90°+stupid humidity so I didn't get shots in the banneton or stenciling. 

lkapigian

Winner Blake !! Finally under the 100's here, ready to bake some more 

NPHuskerFL

lkapigian said:

Winner Blake !! Finally under the 100's here, ready to bake some more 

Thanks Larry.  We're so ready for some Fall temps.

caliking

Nice work with the stencil @NPHuskerFL!

SciAggie

Nice work! I’m ready to start baking regularly again.