Wild Yeast

20stone

Clutch227 said:

Thanks for the input guys - here is the recipe link for reference.. https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016277-tartines-country-bread

For my next attempt I will look over the ratios everyone posted above and adjust to longer autolyse and bulk ferment and see what comes from it.  Who knows, the one set of perfect loaves could have been a day that I had to step away and was forced into a long bulk and I just do not remember. 

I will reiterate - I have a notebook where I document every time I bake (including how I tweaked the recipe, bulk and final rise times and anything goofy - like doing final the other night by the fireplace because it was so darn late)... That way I can recreate the successes.

caliking

@blind99 - that waffle plate makes me wanna EAT! 

blind99

@caliking dude you gotta make them.  they were crunchy on the edges, with just the right chew.  i don't have the link for the recipe but it's whatever 20stone gave my wife so we can track it down if needed.  As @nphuskerfl points out, though, if you make them, either they will turn out in the shape of connecticut, or elizabeth warren will show up at your door to chastize you

i'm looking forward to doing some breads on the egg.  In the oven, I'm baking around 450 degrees.  do you folks cook that hot in the egg?  in a DO, or right on a stone, maybe with a bowl on top for some steam?

caliking

@blind99 - we're pancake people, so I have made the pancakes. And you're spot on  that the texture of these turns out wonderful. 

I bake at 475°F, in a covered CIDO. @NPHuskerFL bakes in the egg frequently. I think @SciAggie does it all!

Some folks bake with a cloche, but a steel bowl should work in a pinch. 

Gary- how did that olive loaf turn out?? 

blind99

@caliking I am so ignorant... all these baking terms i've heard - cloche, banneton (balleton?), bulk proof rise etc.... gonna have to get a book and do some reading to learn!  so far i've been mixing starter, water, flour and salt and cooking it... lots easier to just ask you all what to do than trust some ninny who wrote a book...

20stone

blind99 said:

@caliking I am so ignorant... all these baking terms i've heard - cloche, banneton (balleton?), bulk proof rise etc.... gonna have to get a book and do some reading to learn!  

@blind99, if we didn't like you so much, we'd tell you to RTFM.  I will leave it to others to recommend their favorite FMs, but I like this one:
http://kensartisan.com/flour-water-salt-yeast/

For starters:

• Cloche - The thing Buggs Bunny uses to conceal a lit stick of dynamite when dressed as a waiter serving Yosimite Sam.  If oven safe, can also be used to keep humidity around the bread for great crust formation.  Note - not oven safe if it also has a stick of dynamite in it
• Banneton - Fashion house from the 80's that was one of the first to pull multi-ethnic models into the forefront.  Also called a "proofing basket", as it is typically a straw basket for dumping your dough into for its final rise.  When coated with rice flour, it gives you that sexy, slightly pagan white swirl on your boule
• Bulk proof - The first rise of your dough, named since you do it as one big blob, regardless of how many loaves you are making.  Note, the timing of this can vary widely depending on how well you read a recipe (*cough* @caliking *cough*)

blind99 said:

  so far i've been mixing starter, water, flour and salt and cooking it... 

That is all it has ever been.  What the heck are you bugging us for?

SciAggie

@caliking The olive loaf turned out well. I wasn't "OMG, that's amazing!" I think I'll just make my regular bread from now on.

@blind99 I bake in the house at 500 degrees for the first 30 minutes while the dough is covered. I use a ceramic cloche - because I have one. A SS mixing bowl over the bread or a CI DO works well too. You just want something that traps moisture and steam in the first stages of the cook before the crust sets. If the crust sets too quickly the loaf will not expand as much as it is capable of doing.
About 15 minutes into the cook I'll turn the heat down to 450 degrees. I do that because the pizza stone and ceramic cloche will hold the temperature up well enough.

When I'm cooking in the wood oven I like the temp closer to 450 from the start. That thing does not drop in temperature and the loaves get plenty of oven spring even at 450 degrees.

I haven't made bread on the egg in a long while.

NPHuskerFL

@20stone Looks like you forgot something.

. The NY Times has one purpose and it ain't recipes.

20stone

NPHuskerFL said:

@20stone Looks like you forgot something.

. The NY Times has one purpose and it ain't recipes.

ONE recipe, dude.  One recipe.  That being said, I am enough of a news junkie that I am livestreaming the NYT newsroom while they announce their journalists that received Pulitzer prizes (yes, plural).

Meanwhile, at Fox News, they are trying to figure out what happens when their man, Michael Cohen's clients are:

• President Trump (hush money from affair negotiation, and ?)
• Former deputy finance chair of the RNC, Elliot Briody (hush money from affair negotiation, and ...?)
• ....AND... Fox News host, SEAN HANNITY (?, but I am betting coordinated leaks from President Trump through Mr. Cohen)

NPHuskerFL

@20stone Damn brotha twas just a joke.
#triggered

NPHuskerFL

For recipes etc try 
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/

20stone

NPHuskerFL said:

@20stone Damn brotha twas just a joke.
#triggered

Fair point.  I am wound pretty tightly right now.

caliking

@blind99 this is a  homebrewed cloche I made a long while back. Have not used yet, since I’m happy with the CIDO method. Cloche sits in the garage, and the DO stays in the oven. 


And the tale that is giving @20stone pertussis goes thusly-

I’ve been baking Forkish’s FWSY levain breads on and off for the past 16 months or so. Have experimented with many other recipes from different sources too. I usually bake half the recipe, so one loaf. I kept scratching my noggin as to why his recipe takes 12-14 hrs for the bulk rise, but mine would be done in 4ish hrs. I chalked it up to my kitchen being hotter than his (77F... we likes it HOT!!). 

Until... I finally read the recipe 2 weeks ago, instead of just skimming the ingredients, etc. Turns out that you only add half the levain to the final dough, pitching the other half. Never occurred to me that you wouldn’t just use all of it. Now it all makes sense. After more than a year. 

Moral of the story - you can speed up or slow down the bulk rise , by using more or less levain, if you need to bend it for your baking schedule. And also by tweaking other factors.

And it doesn’t hurt to actually read the recipe. 

20stone

caliking said:

@blind99 this is a  homebrewed cloche I made a long while back. Have not used yet, since I’m happy with the CIDO method. Cloche sits in the garage, and the DO stays in the oven. 


And the tale that is giving @20stone pertussis goes thusly-

I’ve been baking Forkish’s FWSY levain breads on and off for the past 16 months or so. ...Now it all makes sense. After more than a year. 

In defense of @cali here, I had to read it quite a few times before I asked myself, "WTF would I make 700g of levain if I am only using 300g?"   Forkish has this whole process of putting the levain in water so that you can measure the blobs without sticking, and I'm all "WTF don't I weigh it when I mix it, and use a rubber scraper to dump it all in when it's ready?"

blind99

20stone said:

blind99 said:

@caliking I am so ignorant... all these baking terms i've heard - cloche, banneton (balleton?), bulk proof rise etc.... gonna have to get a book and do some reading to learn!  

@blind99, if we didn't like you so much, we'd tell you to RTFM.  I will leave it to others to recommend their favorite FMs, but I like this one:
http://kensartisan.com/flour-water-salt-yeast/

blind99 said:

  so far i've been mixing starter, water, flour and salt and cooking it... 

That is all it has ever been.  What the heck are you bugging us for?

Exactly! How can there be so many damned books on this topic? Most must be wrong. Fake news if you will! Heck, if Cali manages to screw it up imagine what I’ll do. I will check out that book though. Dressed in my finest banneton. 

caliking

blind99 said:

Exactly! How can there be so many damned books on this topic? Most must be wrong. Fake news if you will! Heck, if Cali manages to screw it up imagine what I’ll do. I will check out that book though. Dressed in my finest banneton. 

You would be surprised at how little it takes for me to screw something up...

NPHuskerFL

Sourdough, as far as we know, started with the Swiss and then the Egyptians around 1500 BC. Older than metal. Before the Bronze Age. Here we are in 2018 still discussing an ancient craft.  I love this about Sourdough.
You would think we'd have this down to a T by now

A good read if y'all are interested.
https://www.sourdough.co.uk/the-history-of-sourdough-bread/

lkapigian

Clutch227 said:

Ok guys, I love seeing all this great bread.  I’ve been baking quite a bit myself since first being inspired by this thread.  I’ve done baguettes, pita, pizza and most often sourdough.  My starter Jacque Couscough is doin great and has contributed to almost every dough recipe I’ve made so far.  

Unfortunately, i am having issues with my sourdough boules... 

I’m using the Tartine Country Bread recipe that basically breaks down to this ratio

200g starter (100% Hydration)
750g water
100g Whole Wheat flour (KA)
900g Bread Flour (KA)
20g salt

Process is 

Mix starter, Flour, and 700g of water
autolyse for 15min
add salt and remaining 50g of water and mix until combined
proof at room temp for 3 hours folding every half hour
preshape into boule, no flour on work surface
bench rest 15min
final shape, set in bannetons
cold proof for 16hours

My issue is that I bake the bread and it tastes great, truly awesome bread for some good butter and honey, but sometimes I get these huge holes in the center



This has been my worst loaf by far but it highlights the issue.  Very disappointing.  I have had much better loaves and one perfect loaf but of course the perfect loaf is the one I have no notes on.  Not sure if this is shaping technique, proofing times, or what.  

My last loaf was my worst, looked just like that.....3 hour Autolyse 8 hour bulk, shaped and put in the fridge for another 6....funny my first loaves were better, oh well

lkapigian

Second loaf out of that batch....still dense...All things being equal, I don't think I mixed as long after adding the starter and salt, I did not shape then put in the fridge, I put the whole batch in the fridge , removed in the AM, shaped and put back in the fridge until I got home....the variable was mixing and time

caliking

lkapigian said:

Clutch227 said:

...



This has been my worst loaf by far but it highlights the issue.  Very disappointing.  I have had much better loaves and one perfect loaf but of course the perfect loaf is the one I have no notes on.  Not sure if this is shaping technique, proofing times, or what.  

My last loaf was my worst, looked just like that.....3 hour Autolyse 8 hour bulk, shaped and put in the fridge for another 6....funny my first loaves were better, oh well

Did you give the dough a few folds in the first few hours of the bulk rise?

lkapigian

@caliking , yup, folded as usual for several hours, got late so I just stuck it in the fridge....maybe should have just left it out

lkapigian

Under proofed?...when taking from,the fridge should it be brought to room temp?

Hawg Fan

I love this thread.  I've been baking bread for years with commercial yeast, but I want to experiment with this type of sour dough starter.  I used a SD starter 20 years ago, but it was quite different.  Keep it going guys, you're educated all of us.

caliking

lkapigian said:

Under proofed?...when taking from,the fridge should it be brought to room temp?

My understanding is that a loaf like that wasn’t  quite finished  with the bulk rise yet. 

You should be ok with baking straight out of the fridge. Shouldn’t have to be brought to room temp. 

Simple test is to poke the dough. The dimple should fill in but not 100%. If it springs back quickly and completely , it may be underproofed. If it fills back slowly, and you can see where you poked it, it may be overproofed. 

lkapigian

@caliking did the poke test and seemed to be like the others, it did seem very dense when I pulled it out of the fridge this AM to shape....I will jump back into it on Sunday

SciAggie

I bake my loaves straight out of the refrigerator so that’s not the problem. I don’t have any thoughts to share about the problem other than I suspect it it is an issue in the bulk stage or the shaping technique. 

lkapigian

Thanks @SciAggie , thinking my shaping is OK based upon the previous loaves but I did alter my bulk, my fridge runs @ 34 and my kitchen this week in the mid to low 60,s ...none the less, taste was great 

EggDan

Based on a comment above, I decided to bulk ferment for over 5 hours vs my normal 3.5 hours. The result was a much airier soft crumb, which I really enjoyed. I also tried a 12 hour Autolyse. Regardless, it turned out really good. 

I even got some of the bubble action during the bulk fermentation. 

SciAggie

This loaf makes me happy. 

lkapigian

^^^^^^^^^^Heck Ya^^^^^^^^^^^