Butcher Paper vs Foil vs No Wrap. You be the judge.

nolaegghead

I'm sure your brisket is no worse than theirs. I would venture yours is even better.  What they have and you don't is the public hype.  That's called brain magic.

Foghorn

I'm not much of photographer and I'm not tech-savvy. With that being said, here is an iPhone pick at night with partial lighting from a patio light showing 3 briskets on the offset. We did the other 2 on the Traeger. I don't have pics of that. 

@Cazzy, I also have a video of one of the briskets being sliced. If I text it to you will you load it here?  I've  tried without success- even after I edited it to a smaller size. 

SGH

Foghorn said:

@Cazzy, I also have a video of one of the briskets being sliced. If I text it to you will you load it here?  I've  tried without success- even after I edited it to a smaller size. 

Brother Horn, if the video doesn't get posted here, please text it to me as well. I would love to see it. Thanks in advance. 228-627-5400.

SGH

nolaegghead said:

I'm sure your brisket is no worse than theirs. I would venture yours is even better.  What they have and you don't is the public hype.  That's called brain magic.

Well said brother. 

SGH

@Foghorn
I have tried posting the video as well. I keep getting a "not allowed" message.  

Foghorn

SGH said:

nolaegghead said:

I'm sure your brisket is no worse than theirs. I would venture yours is even better.  What they have and you don't is the public hype.  That's called brain magic.

Well said brother. 

@nolaegghead, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but Franklin's was definitely juicier.  My most recent effort may have had better flavor.  We just used Bolner's Fiesta Brisket Rub.  I doubt I'll ever use anything else.

SGH

@Foghorn
Whate grade brisket was you cooking?

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Foghorn said:

I haven't been to all the top Q spots in South Texas - expecially in Austin.  But I can now consistently (meaning 80% of the time) make better brisket on my egg and on a CharGriller Akorn than I can buy at Kreuz, County Line, Salt Lick, Luling City Market, The Granary, or Rudy's - and that was before I added the butcher paper step.  The 5 I cooked this weekend entered the rarified air of being in the same neighborhood as Franklin's.  This was a neighborhood I didn't even know existed until I visited his place in May. 

The bottom line is that the older places put out some great Q (I love the ribs and sausage from Kreuz), but where brisket is concerned the bar has been raised over the past few years.  I hope to get to La Barbecue and Mueller's some day - and back to Franklin's. 

Janell and I ate at Mueller's 2 weeks ago. It was dog food. Horrible. It was 4 pm and the joint was empty but good god shut the doors before serving food like that. I did score a sweet hat out of the deal but the brisket was absolutely terrible. Sausage even worse.

Franklin's is in a class of his own and John Lewis/LABBQ is right behind him. The rest are very hit and miss (more miss than hit). Franklin does not appear to have a miss and LaBBQ's misses are better than most people's best.

SGH

IMG_0784.MOV.mov

SGH

@Foghorn
I thought I got it above^^^^^^^^^ but no cigar.  

The Cen-Tex Smoker

you guys are going to have to make a youtube video and then copy the link from the "share this" button post it in the text box on here. That's the Vanilla way.

cazzy

@Foghorn You definitely got the brisket jiggle.  Problem with videos sent via text message is your phone will compress the crap out of it so it is barely viewable by the time it gets to me.  Upload it to YouTube from your phone...that is the best option.

Foghorn

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

you guys are going to have to make a youtube video and then copy the link form the "share this" button post it in the text box on here. That's the Vanilla way.

That's above my tech moron (meaning that I am a tech moron) pay grade.

SGH

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:
LaBBQ's misses are better than most people's best.

I have heard real good reviews about them^^^^^^^^. When they hit, how does their brisket compare to Franklins? 

GoldenQ

If any of you get to Pearland, tx you need to try Killens it is similar to Franklin's and opens at 11 till runs out.  He is putting in more large smokers as the 4 he now uses run out at about 3.  Some who have eaten his brisket and Franklins say they are the same   Killen's steakhouse in Pearland has been rated in the top 10 of texas consistently and was recently rated in top 10 in nation on food network.  I have not tried his brisket due to long lines each day.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

SGH said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:
LaBBQ's misses are better than most people's best.

I have heard real good reviews about them^^^^^^^^. When they hit, how does their brisket compare to Franklins? 

I've been 3 times. 1 great, 2 good. None as good as Franklin's but very good and the line was like 15-20 minutes. Last time I ate there I got there at 10:30 on a Saturday of SXSW and I was the first person in line. Line was 50-75 deep by 11but moved fast once they opened 

Franklin's is clearly better in my book but I would say they stand alone in 2nd place behind Franklin. They are still miles ahead of everywhere else I've eaten and I just did the "Legends Tour" again lately.. In the past month I've eaten at:

Kruez Market- Lockhart
Smitty's- Lockhart
Blacks- Lockhart
City Market- Lulling
City Meat Market- Giddings
Louie Mueller's in Taylor

I still eat at Salt lick a few times a year because I love the place. The food is average. 

None of them are even close to LaBBQ. Not even in the same league.

That being said, I was disappointed in all of them. Franklin has changed the game and LaBBQ is the only one who can even stand up with them. 

I will probably never go back to Lockhart to eat bbq again. It just sucks. It's all TV hype. The family that owns Kreuz and Smitty's (the 2 famous spots in Lockhart) opened a place up in my area a few months ago. It was so bad none of us took more than a couple of bites before dumping it in the trash. Grey, bland, poorly cut meat with all the sides poured out of a bag- and sadly the sysco mac n cheese was better than anything else we had there. I know it was Sysco because they were pouring it out of the sysco bag into the steam tray right in front of me as I ordered. Lie to me a little. I don't care, I promise. Just pour it in the back so I don't see the nuclear orange goo in a 2 gallon bag. Not too much to ask.

I guess they are doing well because now they are opening another one 300 yds from my house that I have to drive by every day to get home! Nooooooooo! I was really bummed when I saw that sign go up. A waste of 2 great bbq locations that will be there forever because they have the financial resources to stay as long as they want. Crap.

They open July 13th.....I'm sure Ill try it again some day.

cazzy

GoldenQ said:

If any of you get to Pearland, tx you need to try Killens it is similar to Franklin's and opens at 11 till runs out.  He is putting in more large smokers as the 4 he now uses run out at about 3.  Some who have eaten his brisket and Franklins say they are the same   Killen's steakhouse in Pearland has been rated in the top 10 of texas consistently and was recently rated in top 10 in nation on food network.  I have not tried his brisket due to long lines each day.

I've had the top spots in Texas and am now a Houston guy, so I really wanted to love Killens.  I didn't.  The brisket was good but not great and the flat was dry.  The pork rib was embarrssing and the beef rib was great.  The best thing we ate was their fried chicken.  I also thought the overall experience was lacking too.  At Franklin...you feel like a VIP eating there.  Everyone is super friendly and people stop and talk to you and make sure everything is good and thank you again for waiting and eating there.  It was cold and Ronnie was smug and short when I spoke to him.  I've to have their burger and another time to get their pork chop...both were great but the brisket was a lil better once and worse the next time.  His cream corn rocks!!  

Franklin is the best because he's always on and you always know what you're going to get.  Ronnie has a lot of catching up to do to be close.  There will be a spot opening in Katy late this year, early next that might do some good things....we shall see.

SGH

cazzy said:
  The best thing we ate was their fried chicken.   His cream corn rocks!!  

This is sad for a Q joint. Something is definitely amiss when the fried chicken and corn out shine the brisket and ribs.  Don't misunderstand what I'm saying, I love good fried chicken as much as anyone. But it really shouldn't be the star at a Q joint.  

lousubcap

Okay-all you who live in the land of brisket-can we get back to the paper, foil or neked discussion ??   The brisket cook descriptions of your visits make us pedestrians feel so.... that too.    
I guess it all comes down to how you approach the end of the cook as to what you are aiming for with regard to the finish and the process.  

cazzy

SGH said:

cazzy said:
  The best thing we ate was their fried chicken.   His cream corn rocks!!  

This is sad for a Q joint. Something is definitely amiss when the fried chicken and corn out shine the brisket and ribs.  Don't misunderstand what I'm saying, I love good fried chicken as much as anyone. But it really shouldn't be the star at a Q joint.  

His cue is good...just not on the level that he believes he is at.  I'm tough to impress so his Q is prolly great for the average Joe. His beef rib is really great...best traditional q that he makes. He does a lot of cool stuff...mainly because he's a professionally trained chef.  That is why some of his non BBQ stuff is great!  Pork belly, short rib burnt ends, different custom sausages, brisket tameles, catfish and shrimp, burgers, chicken fried steak...always something else going on.  He had a cool shoot out not too long ago. Akaushi vs SRF vs Strube Ranch Wagyu.  He is always pushing the envelope and that may be the problem.  I think if there was a focus on just the traditional q...it would be exceptional, but I think that would bore him.  He has a line out the door everyday so he is doing something right.

SGH

Foghorn said:

I didn't mean to suggest that I tasted sugar, per se.  It really tasted more like a heavy dusting of onion powder - as I said in my original comment on this topic it was "very oniony and ALMOST sweet."

But I am still curious as to how others thought his rub tasted.

If the brisket is as good as everyone says that it is (and I'm sure that it is) I wouldn't be suprised to find out that he is using unicorn tears and fairy dust in his rub We may never know my friend. 

Roadpuke0

SGH said:

@Jeepster47-No doubt brother. In the world of cooking its very easy to get caught up in the "this way is best" hoopla. The fact is, everyone has different tastes and personal preferences. What I like the best you may not like at all and vice versa. The key is to find what gives you the desired end results that you are looking far. Some folks like turbo, some prefer low and slow. This is sort of the same debate as the paper vs foil or dry rub vs wet rub. In the end it doesn't matter how you get there as long as it gives you the desired results that you are looking for. Here is a interesting fact that a lot of people may not know. Long before the butcher paper method became popular, people use to cook in brown paper grocery bags. It's only a hunch but I feel that the butcher paper method is a direct descendant of the bag method. Some bright lad put 2 and 2 together and thought if a bag will work a roll of paper should work just the same. The bag method just farther reinforces the notion that there are certainly many different ways to skin the ole cat

Grandma always cooked here Apple pies in the brown grocery bags and the pies were to die for. Sure miss those days! 

SGH

Roadpuke0 said:

Grandma always cooked here Apple pies in the brown grocery bags and the pies were to die for. Sure miss those days! 

My grandmother use to cook holiday turkeys in brown bags when I was a youngster.  I miss those days too my friend.  

DMW

cazzy said:

SGH said:

cazzy said:
  The best thing we ate was their fried chicken.   His cream corn rocks!!  

This is sad for a Q joint. Something is definitely amiss when the fried chicken and corn out shine the brisket and ribs.  Don't misunderstand what I'm saying, I love good fried chicken as much as anyone. But it really shouldn't be the star at a Q joint.  

His cue is good...just not on the level that he believes he is at.  I'm tough to impress so his Q is prolly great for the average Joe. His beef rib is really great...best traditional q that he makes. He does a lot of cool stuff...mainly because he's a professionally trained chef.  That is why some of his non BBQ stuff is great!  Pork belly, short rib burnt ends, different custom sausages, brisket tameles, catfish and shrimp, burgers, chicken fried steak...always something else going on.  He had a cool shoot out not too long ago. Akaushi vs SRF vs Strube Ranch Wagyu.  He is always pushing the envelope and that may be the problem.  I think if there was a focus on just the traditional q...it would be exceptional, but I think that would bore him.  He has a line out the door everyday so he is doing something right.

Best thing I had there was the pecan pie. Could be I'm not from Texas and don't really know a good pecan pie, but that was amazing.

cazzy

DMW said:

cazzy said:

SGH said:

cazzy said:
  The best thing we ate was their fried chicken.   His cream corn rocks!!  

This is sad for a Q joint. Something is definitely amiss when the fried chicken and corn out shine the brisket and ribs.  Don't misunderstand what I'm saying, I love good fried chicken as much as anyone. But it really shouldn't be the star at a Q joint.  

His cue is good...just not on the level that he believes he is at.  I'm tough to impress so his Q is prolly great for the average Joe. His beef rib is really great...best traditional q that he makes. He does a lot of cool stuff...mainly because he's a professionally trained chef.  That is why some of his non BBQ stuff is great!  Pork belly, short rib burnt ends, different custom sausages, brisket tameles, catfish and shrimp, burgers, chicken fried steak...always something else going on.  He had a cool shoot out not too long ago. Akaushi vs SRF vs Strube Ranch Wagyu.  He is always pushing the envelope and that may be the problem.  I think if there was a focus on just the traditional q...it would be exceptional, but I think that would bore him.  He has a line out the door everyday so he is doing something right.

Best thing I had there was the pecan pie. Could be I'm not from Texas and don't really know a good pecan pie, but that was amazing.

How'd you like the Q compared to Delany BBQ in NY?

DMW

cazzy said:

DMW said:

cazzy said:

SGH said:

cazzy said:
  The best thing we ate was their fried chicken.   His cream corn rocks!!  

This is sad for a Q joint. Something is definitely amiss when the fried chicken and corn out shine the brisket and ribs.  Don't misunderstand what I'm saying, I love good fried chicken as much as anyone. But it really shouldn't be the star at a Q joint.  

His cue is good...just not on the level that he believes he is at.  I'm tough to impress so his Q is prolly great for the average Joe. His beef rib is really great...best traditional q that he makes. He does a lot of cool stuff...mainly because he's a professionally trained chef.  That is why some of his non BBQ stuff is great!  Pork belly, short rib burnt ends, different custom sausages, brisket tameles, catfish and shrimp, burgers, chicken fried steak...always something else going on.  He had a cool shoot out not too long ago. Akaushi vs SRF vs Strube Ranch Wagyu.  He is always pushing the envelope and that may be the problem.  I think if there was a focus on just the traditional q...it would be exceptional, but I think that would bore him.  He has a line out the door everyday so he is doing something right.

Best thing I had there was the pecan pie. Could be I'm not from Texas and don't really know a good pecan pie, but that was amazing.

How'd you like the Q compared to Delany BBQ in NY?

It was good, but Delany's BrisketTown was better. Best brisket flat I've ever had, and the beef rib was amazing. The pulled pork wasn't all that special, but I'll never forget the flat.

Foghorn

lousubcap said:

Okay-all you who live in the land of brisket-can we get back to the paper, foil or neked discussion ??   The brisket cook descriptions of your visits make us pedestrians feel so.... that too.    
I guess it all comes down to how you approach the end of the cook as to what you are aiming for with regard to the finish and the process.  

@lousubcap, I apologize for taking this thread off the rails.  My point was that I am now a convert to the butcher paper camp.  Several others who helped with my recent cook and several who simply tasted the brisket have converted as well.  I left my butcher paper roll at my colleague's house this weekend and he brought it to me at work yesterday.  I spent part of the day tearing off sheets of it for coworkers who want to try it on their next brisket cook, but don't want to buy a full 1000 ft roll.

If I knew that the endpoint for a brisket was to be chopped for a sandwich, I think I would probably go with foil, but for any brisket I am planning to slice, I'm going to use butcher paper until something better comes along.

lousubcap

@Foghorn- thanks but my post was an attempt at humor.  Now back on point, at what point in your cook do you go to the paper?  I am curious as I run neked until I cross the finish-line.  And of late I have had two prime packers cook at a rate of 0.7hrs/lb (at 270 or so on the calibrated dome) so FTC gets plenty of play.  No idea why the speedy cook routine. 
Of course when I plan for that cook rate I will get hosed on the other end...friggin beef:)

Jeepster47

lousubcap said:

... Of course when I plan for that cook rate I will get hosed on the other end...friggin beef:)

Thanks ... I'll be laughing about that comment all day.

Foghorn

@lousubcap, sorry I missed the humor.

As for when to wrap, I've heard or read three different answers:

1) Wrap at 160 - although this may just be when people wrap pork shoulders when they are doing a turbo cook and may not apply that well to brisket.

2) Wrap when you are happy with the bark.

3) Wrap at a specific time - 4 hours to 6 hours

Fortunately, in practice, all of these three end up being pretty close - at least in the one time I have wrapped.  We were 6 hours in, we were largely happy with the bark (a couple of areas on top were still a little moist on the lower temp briskets that were furthest from the fire), and we were in or near the stall at 155 - 164 depending on which brisket we checked.

So, I envision that the next time I do a brisket, I'll want to wait for perfect bark but if the temp starts rising much above 160 I'll wrap it when I am "mostly happy" with the bark.

I hope that helps.