Vaccine Today, here we go!

Gulfcoastguy · December 2020

Legume said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Here is a video by an English professor about the AZ vaccine, it's effectiveness, cost, the UK approach to mass vaccination, where it is produced, and a suggestion on how the FDA could speed up approval since the US has a contract for 300 million doses and even a single dose can keep that person out of the hospital.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pj4_aK-j8I

I found him to be very much a homer for UK, an oddly biased kind of posture for a scientist/professor. Yes, that vaccine will be much better for global distribution, but that doesn’t impact you or me. Cost doesn’t either.

Regardless of the source, cost or science, delivery seems to be the weak link now like testing was months ago. If we had infrastructure built on nationalized healthcare, the leadership and decision making might have been better, but holistically, all countries have had challenges along the way and decisions that could be second guessed.

re FDA review time, if you think this was being sat on or running at standard red-tape pace, you would be wrong. We have an environment where people fear vaccines, don’t trust the government and people believe shortcuts have been taken that could make the vaccines more risky. Good science takes time and credibility is easily lost and near impossible to regain.

Lots of people are against anything that they are told looks like socialized medicine, but in this case, a little more governmental control seems like it would be welcomed.

You could take a look at his videos on the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, just search on his channel on ewe tube. Yes he has a British bias which is not to be unexpected but he readily admits that the AZ vaccine is 70 to 80% effective in preventing the virus from taking hold but is higher in keeping people out of hospital beds. His videos on the Pfizer vaccine do admit that it is more effective at 95% in preventing infection. The problem is that the UK can't obtain enough Pfizer or Moderna vaccine to vaccinate their adult population. They also have a more easily transmitted version of the virus exploding in their population.

Legume · December 2020

We need all of the vaccines we can get, everywhere. The best vaccine is the one you can get, as soon as you can get it.

fishlessman · December 2020

Legume said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Here is a video by an English professor about the AZ vaccine, it's effectiveness, cost, the UK approach to mass vaccination, where it is produced, and a suggestion on how the FDA could speed up approval since the US has a contract for 300 million doses and even a single dose can keep that person out of the hospital.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pj4_aK-j8I

I found him to be very much a homer for UK, an oddly biased kind of posture for a scientist/professor. Yes, that vaccine will be much better for global distribution, but that doesn’t impact you or me. Cost doesn’t either.

Regardless of the source, cost or science, delivery seems to be the weak link now like testing was months ago. If we had infrastructure built on nationalized healthcare, the leadership and decision making might have been better, but holistically, all countries have had challenges along the way and decisions that could be second guessed.

re FDA review time, if you think this was being sat on or running at standard red-tape pace, you would be wrong. We have an environment where people fear vaccines, don’t trust the government and people believe shortcuts have been taken that could make the vaccines more risky. Good science takes time and credibility is easily lost and near impossible to regain.

Lots of people are against anything that they are told looks like socialized medicine, but in this case, a little more governmental control seems like it would be welcomed.

so maybe the post office would have been a better delivery system than ups or even fedex......

PigBeanUs · December 2020

fishlessman said:

Legume said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Here is a video by an English professor about the AZ vaccine, it's effectiveness, cost, the UK approach to mass vaccination, where it is produced, and a suggestion on how the FDA could speed up approval since the US has a contract for 300 million doses and even a single dose can keep that person out of the hospital.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pj4_aK-j8I

I found him to be very much a homer for UK, an oddly biased kind of posture for a scientist/professor. Yes, that vaccine will be much better for global distribution, but that doesn’t impact you or me. Cost doesn’t either.

Regardless of the source, cost or science, delivery seems to be the weak link now like testing was months ago. If we had infrastructure built on nationalized healthcare, the leadership and decision making might have been better, but holistically, all countries have had challenges along the way and decisions that could be second guessed.

re FDA review time, if you think this was being sat on or running at standard red-tape pace, you would be wrong. We have an environment where people fear vaccines, don’t trust the government and people believe shortcuts have been taken that could make the vaccines more risky. Good science takes time and credibility is easily lost and near impossible to regain.

Lots of people are against anything that they are told looks like socialized medicine, but in this case, a little more governmental control seems like it would be welcomed.

so maybe the post office would have been a better delivery system than ups or even fedex......

The capacity of the USPS has been actively lessened by the current administration. Once it is rebuilt, perhaps.

It’s self-funding by the way. No tax money supports the USPS, and it actually turns a profit.

Regardless: attack on all fronts. Multiple delivery streams, multiple vaccines, etc etc

nolaegghead · December 2020

SWMBO received her vaccination this morning.

fishlessman · December 2020

PigBeanUs said:

fishlessman said:

Legume said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Here is a video by an English professor about the AZ vaccine, it's effectiveness, cost, the UK approach to mass vaccination, where it is produced, and a suggestion on how the FDA could speed up approval since the US has a contract for 300 million doses and even a single dose can keep that person out of the hospital.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pj4_aK-j8I

I found him to be very much a homer for UK, an oddly biased kind of posture for a scientist/professor. Yes, that vaccine will be much better for global distribution, but that doesn’t impact you or me. Cost doesn’t either.

Regardless of the source, cost or science, delivery seems to be the weak link now like testing was months ago. If we had infrastructure built on nationalized healthcare, the leadership and decision making might have been better, but holistically, all countries have had challenges along the way and decisions that could be second guessed.

re FDA review time, if you think this was being sat on or running at standard red-tape pace, you would be wrong. We have an environment where people fear vaccines, don’t trust the government and people believe shortcuts have been taken that could make the vaccines more risky. Good science takes time and credibility is easily lost and near impossible to regain.

Lots of people are against anything that they are told looks like socialized medicine, but in this case, a little more governmental control seems like it would be welcomed.

so maybe the post office would have been a better delivery system than ups or even fedex......

The capacity of the USPS has been actively lessened by the current administration. Once it is rebuilt, perhaps.

It’s self-funding by the way. No tax money supports the USPS, and it actually turns a profit.

Regardless: attack on all fronts. Multiple delivery streams, multiple vaccines, etc etc

somehow it would have been delivered to me to redeliver, happens every single week at my house. post office dumps half the street into the last box, mine. they should pay me, i wonder if i could collect for the last 20 years.

been over 6 months trying to get the box at camp activated in the system and the postal truck turns around in the driveway right in front of the box

i do agree though, attack on all fronts

Gulfcoastguy · December 2020

https://www.yahoo.com/news/warp-speed-chief-u-won-190802581.html

To summarize the FDA doesn’t want to approve the AZ vaccine until April because they are not sure how effective it is onolder people. Here is a novel suggestion. Just give it to police, firemen, teachers, food industry workers etc under the age of 65. Save the Pfizer vaccine for people over 65. Or they could just look at the British test results for older people. No hurry I guess.

JohnInCarolina · December 2020

Gulfcoastguy said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/warp-speed-chief-u-won-190802581.html

To summarize the FDA doesn’t want to approve the AZ vaccine until April because they are not sure how effective it is onolder people. Here is a novel suggestion. Just give it to police, firemen, teachers, food industry workers etc under the age of 65. Save the Pfizer vaccine for people over 65. Or they could just look at the British test results for older people. No hurry I guess.

We really need to get you in front of some of the pencil-pushers, stat. See if you can talk some common sense into them! How far of a drive is DC from your house?

Legume · December 2020

AZ hasn’t even filed an application with FDA. Did you read the article you linked?

Gulfcoastguy · December 2020

Legume said:

AZ hasn’t even filed an application with FDA. Did you read the article you linked?

Yes I did. Maybe the FDA can read the UK’s research data also.

Gulfcoastguy · December 2020

JohnInCarolina said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/warp-speed-chief-u-won-190802581.html

To summarize the FDA doesn’t want to approve the AZ vaccine until April because they are not sure how effective it is onolder people. Here is a novel suggestion. Just give it to police, firemen, teachers, food industry workers etc under the age of 65. Save the Pfizer vaccine for people over 65. Or they could just look at the British test results for older people. No hurry I guess.

We really need to get you in front of some of the pencil-pushers, stat. See if you can talk some common sense into them! How far of a drive is DC from your house?

Do you have any comments on the article linked or do you just want to make snide comments about me? One option is educational and the other is revealing.

Legume · December 2020

Gulfcoastguy said:

Legume said:

AZ hasn’t even filed an application with FDA. Did you read the article you linked?

Yes I did. Maybe the FDA can read the UK’s research data also.

I think they’re quite aware of it.

Legume · December 2020

But there’s a good chance they haven’t watched the YouTube professor 😂

JohnInCarolina · December 2020

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/warp-speed-chief-u-won-190802581.html

To summarize the FDA doesn’t want to approve the AZ vaccine until April because they are not sure how effective it is onolder people. Here is a novel suggestion. Just give it to police, firemen, teachers, food industry workers etc under the age of 65. Save the Pfizer vaccine for people over 65. Or they could just look at the British test results for older people. No hurry I guess.

We really need to get you in front of some of the pencil-pushers, stat. See if you can talk some common sense into them! How far of a drive is DC from your house?

Do you have any comments on the article linked or do you just want to make snide comments about me? One option is educational and the other is revealing.

Obviously, you’re not a golfer.

lousubcap · December 2020

I will offer that getting vaccines out there is the priority. Convincing the public to take the shot is the end-game. Getting the juice to market so to speak clearly does have some back door politics in play but not in a heavy-handed way.
I am reminded of Fleet Admiral Gorshkov of the Soviet Union, "better is the enemy of good enough." However, with the virus and so much riding on the vaccine, how much do you want to leverage?
In this moment, I credit the decision makers with doing their best to make the correct choices/decisions. It is easy to be a back-bencher. When you own it, that is a whole different perspective!
Happy New Year. Off soap-box.

PigBeanUs · December 2020

“ I credit the decision makers with doing their best to make the correct choices/decisions”

I haven’t seen any decision making yet, but the moment they start making decisions, the prinary concern will be optics and how the “base” perceives it, not what is best for the country. Their motivation is purely political

Gulfcoastguy · December 2020

Legume said:

But there’s a good chance they haven’t watched the YouTube professor 😂

You mean the holder of a doctorate in nursing and the head of that department at one of Britain’s larger universities? Who also cites his references in his videos? What was your medical degree btw?

Legume · December 2020

Push a vaccine with questionable results and a trial that was a hot mess out there and more people will look to avoid or delay getting vaccinated. Credibility is important when we are unwilling to compel people get vaccinated or put restrictions on people who refuse.

Legume · December 2020

Gulfcoastguy said:

Legume said:

But there’s a good chance they haven’t watched the YouTube professor 😂

You mean the holder of a doctorate in nursing and the head of that department at one of Britain’s larger universities? Who also cites his references in his videos? What was your medical degree btw?

Oh, I wasn’t making fun of him, I was mocking you and your assumption that you’re finding info on the internet that somehow the FDA is completely unaware of. Let’s just agree you don’t know what data they have or don’t have or what they’re looking at and considering. I would imagine AZ and FDA have had several meetings and an ongoing dialogue.

Gulfcoastguy · December 2020

Well let’s just see if British people start dying since they plan to start giving a million doses a week starting Monday.
Btw private industry will start putting restrictions on unvaccinated people very quickly. The Supreme Court ruled in 1915 that mandatory vaccination was constitutional.

nolaegghead · December 2020

Your employer can't force you to get vaccinated. But they can fire you if you can't prove that you have a religious reason not to take it and then they have to work around that (home office, segregated work environment, PPE, etc.).

We live in very religious country compared to other developed industrialized nations.

ColbyLang · December 2020

nolaegghead said:

Your employer can't force you to get vaccinated. But they can fire you if you can't prove that you have a religious reason not to take it and then they have to work around that (home office, segregated work environment, PPE, etc.).

We live in very religious country compared to other developed industrialized nations.

They basically could by paying for it (if it weren’t free) and writing it into company policy. HR nightmare, totally achievable

Gulfcoastguy · December 2020

The key thing about that is if they can make a reasonable accommodation and if it’s possible for you to do your job effectively with that accommodation. Some employers would rather risk firing the reluctant employees than to be sued by any other employees or customers that catch Covid from the reluctant employees.

Offhand the only religious sect that has a long standing credo against vaccination is the Jehovahs Witnesses. But I am not familiar with all of various sects.

nolaegghead · December 2020

Gulfcoastguy said:

The key thing about that is if they can make a reasonable accommodation and if it’s possible for you to do your job effectively with that accommodation. Some employers would rather risk firing the reluctant employees than to be sued by any other employees or customers that catch Covid from the reluctant employees.
Offhand the only religious sect that has a long standing credo against vaccination is the Jehovahs Witnesses. But I am not familiar with all of various sects.

I don't know if there's anyone that can keep track of the 4300 religions practiced in the world (each of those being the only one true religion).

I'm just telling you what I know to be true based on some radio interviews with employment lawyers.

Gulfcoastguy · December 2020

I mostly remember the details as side topics in ADA seminars.

SciAggie · December 2020

I was emailed today that I might get the vaccine as early as Monday.

PigBeanUs · December 2020

nolaegghead said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

The key thing about that is if they can make a reasonable accommodation and if it’s possible for you to do your job effectively with that accommodation. Some employers would rather risk firing the reluctant employees than to be sued by any other employees or customers that catch Covid from the reluctant employees.
Offhand the only religious sect that has a long standing credo against vaccination is the Jehovahs Witnesses. But I am not familiar with all of various sects.

I don't know if there's anyone that can keep track of the 4300 religions practiced in the world (each of those being the only one true religion).

I'm just telling you what I know to be true based on some radio interviews with employment lawyers.

True

most every person on the planet is a virtual “atheist” when you consider they don’t believe in any of the near 2500 deities who have ever been worshipped. Except their own.

So.

They don’t believe in 2499 gods. I don’t believe in 2500

EDIT: it’s also amazing how lucky they were to have been born to parents who believed in the only true god, in a community where the only true god is the one most people worship. Imagine being born a buddhist into a family of [insert any other religion here]? Amazing how it never happens. Also: your god gives kids bone cancer.

PigBeanUs · December 2020

Also:

the only state and federal elected officials who have died from covid-19 are republicans.

Any MAGA wanna opine on that?

can’t be because they showed their allegiance to the yugely-t!tted unfit witless twit by going to and holding maskless events*, right?

No. More likely (see Qanon) that the Chinese engineered a virus that attacks only republicans.

*rallies

JohnInCarolina · December 2020

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/12/31/covid-vaccines-destroyed-wisconsin-hospital/

Just the start of these kind of shenanigans, I’m afraid. We are sofa king screwed as a country.

lousubcap · December 2020

@JohnInCarolina - Should such crap continue then we are screwed but I am holding out hope especially today as we kiss this f'ing year into history.
Perhaps the guilty person should get the micro-chipped dose!

Vaccine Today, here we go!

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