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OT - Mass shootings and gun control - OT
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Comments
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Nothing to see here, obviously. I'm sure we could do the same with cars or knives..."I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike -
I think it's time we legislate common sense.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community [...] but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots."
-Umberto Eco
2 Large
Peachtree Corners, GA -
I guess she thinks everyone is as skilled with using their feet as weapons as Bruce Lee??“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk -
@JohnInCarolinaJohnInCarolina said:YukonRon said:Bottom line in all this BS, a man took weapons into a casino, which are believed to have some of the best security available, used modified high powered weapons, to kill as many as he could, prior to allegedly committing suicide.
Weapons and tactics are secondary, the issue is the mentally insane and fanatical extremists.
Eliminate the flow of fire arms, something else, perhaps even more deadly, will be used in their place. Oklahoma City, Boston, NY, DC, Atlanta, and churches here in the south, are all the evidence one needs to understand.
I love my country, but violence is woven throughout our history and culture.
With the best protection on earth, people are not immune to deranged individuals who have a plan. We have had many examples, in our history, of presidents who have been shot.
No individual is safe, but the odds are closer for your survival if you have a way to fight back.
I'm sure things would've worked out much better in LV had more of the crowd been armed and started indiscriminately shooting back at the hotel.
Nobody said, or implied, the situation would have been mitigated in LV if the people were armed. To try and attach my post to your response is the case of reading and not understanding. You are a smart man, I have no doubt, but you are reaching right now with that comment.
Love you brother, the point I was making is nobody is safe, anywhere. Those that depend on others to protect them and not doing anything to protect themselves, are making a dangerous assumption. You are well aware of this.
Nothing can protect anyone 100% of the time. Our history will prove that. Those that are armed or even understand what to do, in these situations, at least have a chance. I prefer the chance.
You would too, if your wife and two daughters were at risk. You will do whatever it takes, I know this of you.
Sorry, John, your response was, from what I have come to expect, beneath you. You are much better than that. I know this.
Peace"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
Wtf Argentina?
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@Legume I'm googling - what about Argentina?Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
They did that.......1994-2004. It was called the Assault Weapons Ban (AWB). It proved to have ZERO effect, except from driving the price up on pre-ban guns and mags.SkySaw said:. It's obvious that basic steps like stopping the sale of high capacity magazines and semi-automatic weapons would reduce deaths,
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Actually the NRA has long held:YukonRon said:
@JohnInCarolinaJohnInCarolina said:YukonRon said:Bottom line in all this BS, a man took weapons into a casino, which are believed to have some of the best security available, used modified high powered weapons, to kill as many as he could, prior to allegedly committing suicide.
Weapons and tactics are secondary, the issue is the mentally insane and fanatical extremists.
Eliminate the flow of fire arms, something else, perhaps even more deadly, will be used in their place. Oklahoma City, Boston, NY, DC, Atlanta, and churches here in the south, are all the evidence one needs to understand.
I love my country, but violence is woven throughout our history and culture.
With the best protection on earth, people are not immune to deranged individuals who have a plan. We have had many examples, in our history, of presidents who have been shot.
No individual is safe, but the odds are closer for your survival if you have a way to fight back.
I'm sure things would've worked out much better in LV had more of the crowd been armed and started indiscriminately shooting back at the hotel.
Nobody said, or implied, the situation would have been mitigated in LV if the people were armed. To try and attach my post to your response is the case of reading and not understanding. You are a smart man, I have no doubt, but you are reaching right now with that comment.
Love you brother, the point I was making is nobody is safe, anywhere. Those that depend on others to protect them and not doing anything to protect themselves, are making a dangerous assumption. You are well aware of this.
Nothing can protect anyone 100% of the time. Our history will prove that. Those that are armed or even understand what to do, in these situations, at least have a chance. I prefer the chance.
You would too, if your wife and two daughters were at risk. You will do whatever it takes, I know this of you.
Sorry, John, your response was, from what I have come to expect, beneath you. You are much better than that. I know this.
Peace
“The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun.” - NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre
So...by extension...
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk -
JohnInCarolina said:
Nothing to see here, obviously. I'm sure we could do the same with cars or knives...
COME ON!!!! Interesting how they changed the axis on this?? Starting at -20??
Start that red line at 0,0 and it's going to look a lot different.
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Here's the original version of that chart.......before someone with a anti-gun agenda screwed with the axis, put the red line on it, and deleted a bunch of points. Compare where Argentina is on both to see the how bad they screwed with it.JohnInCarolina said:
Nothing to see here, obviously. I'm sure we could do the same with cars or knives...
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I have a NRA ball cap. I tell everyone it stands for: "No Republicans Anymore.""Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
Fine to make that point Ron, I just don't happen to agree with it. It also seemed out of place in the context of what happened in LV, where I hope we can all agree that more guns on the ground in front of the stage wouldn't have made much difference. TIA.YukonRon said:
@JohnInCarolinaJohnInCarolina said:YukonRon said:Bottom line in all this BS, a man took weapons into a casino, which are believed to have some of the best security available, used modified high powered weapons, to kill as many as he could, prior to allegedly committing suicide.
Weapons and tactics are secondary, the issue is the mentally insane and fanatical extremists.
Eliminate the flow of fire arms, something else, perhaps even more deadly, will be used in their place. Oklahoma City, Boston, NY, DC, Atlanta, and churches here in the south, are all the evidence one needs to understand.
I love my country, but violence is woven throughout our history and culture.
With the best protection on earth, people are not immune to deranged individuals who have a plan. We have had many examples, in our history, of presidents who have been shot.
No individual is safe, but the odds are closer for your survival if you have a way to fight back.
I'm sure things would've worked out much better in LV had more of the crowd been armed and started indiscriminately shooting back at the hotel.
Nobody said, or implied, the situation would have been mitigated in LV if the people were armed. To try and attach my post to your response is the case of reading and not understanding. You are a smart man, I have no doubt, but you are reaching right now with that comment.
Love you brother, the point I was making is nobody is safe, anywhere. Those that depend on others to protect them and not doing anything to protect themselves, are making a dangerous assumption. You are well aware of this.
Nothing can protect anyone 100% of the time. Our history will prove that. Those that are armed or even understand what to do, in these situations, at least have a chance. I prefer the chance.
You would too, if your wife and two daughters were at risk. You will do whatever it takes, I know this of you.
Sorry, John, your response was, from what I have come to expect, beneath you. You are much better than that. I know this.
Peace"I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike -
The original plot draws comparison between the US and modern industrialized countries. The point is not just where we are on the vertical axis, but how much of an outlier we are on the horizontal. But yes, you are right, it's good to know that we're so much better off than countries that are literally war zones. And of course, Brazil.stlcharcoal said:
Here's the original version of that chart.......before someone with a anti-gun agenda screwed with the axis, put the red line on it, and deleted a bunch of points. Compare where Argentina is on both to see the how bad they screwed with it.JohnInCarolina said:
Nothing to see here, obviously. I'm sure we could do the same with cars or knives..."I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike -
The number of gun deaths is completely skewed. about 60% of gun deaths in the USA are suicide.
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Welcome to the conversation and the forumBPFBGE said:The number of gun deaths is completely skewed. about 60% of gun deaths in the USA are suicide.“There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body.”
Coach Finstock Teen Wolf -
Exactly.....we have 5-10 times as many guns. One could say that as why we're NOT a "war zone", or why are they not exponentially higher on the vertical. Take suicide off that chart and then see what happens.JohnInCarolina said:
The original plot draws comparison between the US and modern industrialized countries. The point is not just where we are on the vertical axis, but how much of an outlier we are on the horizontal. But yes, you are right, it's good to know that we're so much better off than countries that are literally war zones. And of course, Brazil.
If there's one thing I learn from college and grad school BUSINESS statistic classes, it's that you can stretch and skew charts however you want. It's all still true, but you can make them look how you want to.
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HeavyG said:
Actually the NRA has long held:YukonRon said:
@JohnInCarolinaJohnInCarolina said:YukonRon said:Bottom line in all this BS, a man took weapons into a casino, which are believed to have some of the best security available, used modified high powered weapons, to kill as many as he could, prior to allegedly committing suicide.
Weapons and tactics are secondary, the issue is the mentally insane and fanatical extremists.
Eliminate the flow of fire arms, something else, perhaps even more deadly, will be used in their place. Oklahoma City, Boston, NY, DC, Atlanta, and churches here in the south, are all the evidence one needs to understand.
I love my country, but violence is woven throughout our history and culture.
With the best protection on earth, people are not immune to deranged individuals who have a plan. We have had many examples, in our history, of presidents who have been shot.
No individual is safe, but the odds are closer for your survival if you have a way to fight back.
I'm sure things would've worked out much better in LV had more of the crowd been armed and started indiscriminately shooting back at the hotel.
Nobody said, or implied, the situation would have been mitigated in LV if the people were armed. To try and attach my post to your response is the case of reading and not understanding. You are a smart man, I have no doubt, but you are reaching right now with that comment.
Love you brother, the point I was making is nobody is safe, anywhere. Those that depend on others to protect them and not doing anything to protect themselves, are making a dangerous assumption. You are well aware of this.
Nothing can protect anyone 100% of the time. Our history will prove that. Those that are armed or even understand what to do, in these situations, at least have a chance. I prefer the chance.
You would too, if your wife and two daughters were at risk. You will do whatever it takes, I know this of you.
Sorry, John, your response was, from what I have come to expect, beneath you. You are much better than that. I know this.
Peace
“The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun.” - NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre
So...by extension...
So what happens when the bad guy stops himself with his own gun?
other than being a coward, what is that?Have:
XLBGE / Stumps Baby XL / Couple of Stokers (Gen 1 and Gen 3) / Blackstone 36 / Maxey 3x5 water pan hog cooker
Had:
LBGE / Lang 60D / Cookshack SM150 / Stumps Stretch / Stumps Baby
Fat Willies BBQ
Ola, Ga -
He only shot himself because there were guys with guns on the other side of the door and he knew it. Scum!billt01 said:HeavyG said:
Actually the NRA has long held:YukonRon said:
@JohnInCarolinaJohnInCarolina said:YukonRon said:Bottom line in all this BS, a man took weapons into a casino, which are believed to have some of the best security available, used modified high powered weapons, to kill as many as he could, prior to allegedly committing suicide.
Weapons and tactics are secondary, the issue is the mentally insane and fanatical extremists.
Eliminate the flow of fire arms, something else, perhaps even more deadly, will be used in their place. Oklahoma City, Boston, NY, DC, Atlanta, and churches here in the south, are all the evidence one needs to understand.
I love my country, but violence is woven throughout our history and culture.
With the best protection on earth, people are not immune to deranged individuals who have a plan. We have had many examples, in our history, of presidents who have been shot.
No individual is safe, but the odds are closer for your survival if you have a way to fight back.
I'm sure things would've worked out much better in LV had more of the crowd been armed and started indiscriminately shooting back at the hotel.
Nobody said, or implied, the situation would have been mitigated in LV if the people were armed. To try and attach my post to your response is the case of reading and not understanding. You are a smart man, I have no doubt, but you are reaching right now with that comment.
Love you brother, the point I was making is nobody is safe, anywhere. Those that depend on others to protect them and not doing anything to protect themselves, are making a dangerous assumption. You are well aware of this.
Nothing can protect anyone 100% of the time. Our history will prove that. Those that are armed or even understand what to do, in these situations, at least have a chance. I prefer the chance.
You would too, if your wife and two daughters were at risk. You will do whatever it takes, I know this of you.
Sorry, John, your response was, from what I have come to expect, beneath you. You are much better than that. I know this.
Peace
“The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun.” - NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre
So...by extension...
So what happens when the bad guy stops himself with his own gun?
other than being a coward, what is that? -
You should have paid more attention in business school stats, because none of what you are saying about those graphs or about statistics is informed in any way. It would be like me saying your wood would burn longer if you didn't already pre-burn it before selling it. Uninformed criticism of statistics is just propagating the bizarre belief in the idea that there is no such thing as knowledge.stlcharcoal said:
Exactly.....we have 5-10 times as many guns. One could say that as why we're NOT a "war zone", or why are they not exponentially higher on the vertical. Take suicide off that chart and then see what happens.JohnInCarolina said:
The original plot draws comparison between the US and modern industrialized countries. The point is not just where we are on the vertical axis, but how much of an outlier we are on the horizontal. But yes, you are right, it's good to know that we're so much better off than countries that are literally war zones. And of course, Brazil.
If there's one thing I learn from college and grad school BUSINESS statistic classes, it's that you can stretch and skew charts however you want. It's all still true, but you can make them look how you want to.
And why take out the suicide stats? Most suicides are committed by people who need and want help. The fact that in the US they are more successful in killing themselves is yet another indictment of guns. -
Heckofa first post!BPFBGE said:The number of gun deaths is completely skewed. about 60% of gun deaths in the USA are suicide."I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike -
Careful...People don't need guns to get the job done..SkySaw said:
You should have paid more attention in business school stats, because none of what you are saying about those graphs or about statistics is informed in any way. It would be like me saying your wood would burn longer if you didn't already pre-burn it before selling it. Uninformed criticism of statistics is just propagating the bizarre belief in the idea that there is no such thing as knowledge.stlcharcoal said:
Exactly.....we have 5-10 times as many guns. One could say that as why we're NOT a "war zone", or why are they not exponentially higher on the vertical. Take suicide off that chart and then see what happens.JohnInCarolina said:
The original plot draws comparison between the US and modern industrialized countries. The point is not just where we are on the vertical axis, but how much of an outlier we are on the horizontal. But yes, you are right, it's good to know that we're so much better off than countries that are literally war zones. And of course, Brazil.
If there's one thing I learn from college and grad school BUSINESS statistic classes, it's that you can stretch and skew charts however you want. It's all still true, but you can make them look how you want to.
And why take out the suicide stats? Most suicides are committed by people who need and want help. The fact that in the US they are more successful in killing themselves is yet another indictment of guns.
If we we are indeed 60%, then its quite obvious guns would not stop people from "offing" themselves...
Update...
Here are new figures (still outline the above dated data).
https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/suicide-rates.htm
Have:
XLBGE / Stumps Baby XL / Couple of Stokers (Gen 1 and Gen 3) / Blackstone 36 / Maxey 3x5 water pan hog cooker
Had:
LBGE / Lang 60D / Cookshack SM150 / Stumps Stretch / Stumps Baby
Fat Willies BBQ
Ola, Ga -
Wow, good points everyone. I've really changed mind and refined my opinion.
XL & MM BGE, 36" Blackstone - Newport News, VA -
@johnnypjohnnyp said:Wow, good points everyone. I've really changed mind and refined my opinion.
agreed...
Have:
XLBGE / Stumps Baby XL / Couple of Stokers (Gen 1 and Gen 3) / Blackstone 36 / Maxey 3x5 water pan hog cooker
Had:
LBGE / Lang 60D / Cookshack SM150 / Stumps Stretch / Stumps Baby
Fat Willies BBQ
Ola, Ga -
I'M SORRY, CAN'T HEAR RIGHT NOW...ON A PLAYDATE!!!
BrandonQuad Cities
"If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful." -
Did you take a look at some of this stuff or were you being sarcastic because you think you know everything already?johnnyp said:Wow, good points everyone. I've really changed mind and refined my opinion.
“There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body.”
Coach Finstock Teen Wolf -
Hans61 said:
Did you take a look at some of this stuff or were you being sarcastic because you think you know everything already?johnnyp said:Wow, good points everyone. I've really changed mind and refined my opinion.
I read the entire thread.
I'm far from knowing everything.
XL & MM BGE, 36" Blackstone - Newport News, VA -
but to be clear, I was being very sarcasticXL & MM BGE, 36" Blackstone - Newport News, VA
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“There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body.”
Coach Finstock Teen Wolf -
all the training and no plans for someone breaking a fixed window and using it to shoot from.....pretty sure this will now happen again and again, sorta like hillary showing her shadow, the old ground hog shows up everyday now. welcome to groundhog day. my neighbor was there for this, another woman next town over is dead, sure this hit every nook in the country
fukahwee maineyou can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it -
We can always rely on Brother Pat to have the real diagnosis of the problem.
https://youtu.be/etOa8-pFow4
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk
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