OT - Mass shootings and gun control - OT

HeavyG

Cartoon is a couple of years old but will always be timeless in the US.

Toxarch

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

GC works great as the law abiding citizens will certainly comply.  If we can just get the criminals to comply with the laws then...oh wait, they are criminals.  Never mind.

They've been effective in Australia, where the guy in the posted video is from.   I guess it's because they don't have any criminals down there.  

He is a comic and I believe he used the term mass....he is excluding every other crime with a gun in his country.  I think he is trying to be funny.  Also, like he points out....countries are different.  

I don't doubt our ability as a nation to come up with any and all excuses to avoid passing stricter gun control laws.  If 20 6-7 year olds getting killed in an elementary school didn't effect change, it is hard to imagine what will.

Connecticut pretty much had a green light to pass all the laws they wanted after that shooting. They passed a lot of gun control laws. Do you know how many of the new laws would have stopped the shooting if they were passed 10 years earlier? ZERO. None of the new laws would have stopped that sick individual from going into that Newtown school and shooting those kids. But all the lawmakers patted themselves on the back for passing new laws. That guy already broke a bunch of laws when he stole the guns.

Laws are for the lawful trustworthy people who follow the law. One of those laws being do not kill people.

JohnInCarolina

Toxarch said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

GC works great as the law abiding citizens will certainly comply.  If we can just get the criminals to comply with the laws then...oh wait, they are criminals.  Never mind.

They've been effective in Australia, where the guy in the posted video is from.   I guess it's because they don't have any criminals down there.  

He is a comic and I believe he used the term mass....he is excluding every other crime with a gun in his country.  I think he is trying to be funny.  Also, like he points out....countries are different.  

I don't doubt our ability as a nation to come up with any and all excuses to avoid passing stricter gun control laws.  If 20 6-7 year olds getting killed in an elementary school didn't effect change, it is hard to imagine what will.

Connecticut pretty much had a green light to pass all the laws they wanted after that shooting. They passed a lot of gun control laws. Do you know how many of the new laws would have stopped the shooting if they were passed 10 years earlier? ZERO. None of the new laws would have stopped that sick individual from going into that Newtown school and shooting those kids. But all the lawmakers patted themselves on the back for passing new laws. That guy already broke a bunch of laws when he stole the guns.

Laws are for the lawful trustworthy people who follow the law. One of those laws being do not kill people.

Connecticut, like Chicago, doesn't exist in a vacuum.

thetrim

Too soon, @hans61 Hope this thread goes the ways of "Randomness.  I'll give YOU the benefit of the doubt, but that unbelievable "cuntbag" Hillary Rodham Clinton, aka Mrs. Bill Clinton, is a despicable human being for trying to see how high they stack the bodies to try and argue a political point and push an agenda.

JohnInCarolina

thetrim said:

Too soon, @hans61 Hope this thread goes the ways of "Randomness.  I'll give YOU the benefit of the doubt, but that unbelievable "cuntbag" Hillary Rodham Clinton, aka Mrs. Bill Clinton, is a despicable human being for trying to see how high they stack the bodies to try and argue a political point and push an agenda.

Lol buddy.  Any time any one of these threads pops up, you chime in with a Hillary slam.  Please show me on the doll where she touched you.

4Runner

JohnInCarolina said:

Toxarch said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

GC works great as the law abiding citizens will certainly comply.  If we can just get the criminals to comply with the laws then...oh wait, they are criminals.  Never mind.

They've been effective in Australia, where the guy in the posted video is from.   I guess it's because they don't have any criminals down there.  

He is a comic and I believe he used the term mass....he is excluding every other crime with a gun in his country.  I think he is trying to be funny.  Also, like he points out....countries are different.  

I don't doubt our ability as a nation to come up with any and all excuses to avoid passing stricter gun control laws.  If 20 6-7 year olds getting killed in an elementary school didn't effect change, it is hard to imagine what will.

Connecticut pretty much had a green light to pass all the laws they wanted after that shooting. They passed a lot of gun control laws. Do you know how many of the new laws would have stopped the shooting if they were passed 10 years earlier? ZERO. None of the new laws would have stopped that sick individual from going into that Newtown school and shooting those kids. But all the lawmakers patted themselves on the back for passing new laws. That guy already broke a bunch of laws when he stole the guns.

Laws are for the lawful trustworthy people who follow the law. One of those laws being do not kill people.

Connecticut, like Chicago, doesn't exist in a vacuum.

nether does Australia 

JohnInCarolina

4Runner said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Toxarch said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

GC works great as the law abiding citizens will certainly comply.  If we can just get the criminals to comply with the laws then...oh wait, they are criminals.  Never mind.

They've been effective in Australia, where the guy in the posted video is from.   I guess it's because they don't have any criminals down there.  

He is a comic and I believe he used the term mass....he is excluding every other crime with a gun in his country.  I think he is trying to be funny.  Also, like he points out....countries are different.  

I don't doubt our ability as a nation to come up with any and all excuses to avoid passing stricter gun control laws.  If 20 6-7 year olds getting killed in an elementary school didn't effect change, it is hard to imagine what will.

Connecticut pretty much had a green light to pass all the laws they wanted after that shooting. They passed a lot of gun control laws. Do you know how many of the new laws would have stopped the shooting if they were passed 10 years earlier? ZERO. None of the new laws would have stopped that sick individual from going into that Newtown school and shooting those kids. But all the lawmakers patted themselves on the back for passing new laws. That guy already broke a bunch of laws when he stole the guns.

Laws are for the lawful trustworthy people who follow the law. One of those laws being do not kill people.

Connecticut, like Chicago, doesn't exist in a vacuum.

nether does Australia 

Yeah but it is an island, surrounded by water.  BIG water!  Ocean water!

DMW

4Runner said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Toxarch said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

GC works great as the law abiding citizens will certainly comply.  If we can just get the criminals to comply with the laws then...oh wait, they are criminals.  Never mind.

They've been effective in Australia, where the guy in the posted video is from.   I guess it's because they don't have any criminals down there.  

He is a comic and I believe he used the term mass....he is excluding every other crime with a gun in his country.  I think he is trying to be funny.  Also, like he points out....countries are different.  

I don't doubt our ability as a nation to come up with any and all excuses to avoid passing stricter gun control laws.  If 20 6-7 year olds getting killed in an elementary school didn't effect change, it is hard to imagine what will.

Connecticut pretty much had a green light to pass all the laws they wanted after that shooting. They passed a lot of gun control laws. Do you know how many of the new laws would have stopped the shooting if they were passed 10 years earlier? ZERO. None of the new laws would have stopped that sick individual from going into that Newtown school and shooting those kids. But all the lawmakers patted themselves on the back for passing new laws. That guy already broke a bunch of laws when he stole the guns.

Laws are for the lawful trustworthy people who follow the law. One of those laws being do not kill people.

Connecticut, like Chicago, doesn't exist in a vacuum.

nether does Australia 

Australia is an island surrounded by water, big water, ocean water. 

JohnInCarolina

Lol

shtgunal3

@JohnInCarolina I'm not here to argue either side. All I'm saying is taking or outlawing MY guns isn't going to solve anything.  All that will do is hurt this responsible law abiding citizen and his family. 

And for what it's worth, I don't have any of the AR-15 or semi-auto weapons. Just a few shotguns, rifles, and handguns. 

Again, carry on.

thetrim

JohnInCarolina said:

thetrim said:

Too soon, @hans61 Hope this thread goes the ways of "Randomness.  I'll give YOU the benefit of the doubt, but that unbelievable "cuntbag" Hillary Rodham Clinton, aka Mrs. Bill Clinton, is a despicable human being for trying to see how high they stack the bodies to try and argue a political point and push an agenda.

Lol buddy.  Any time any one of these threads pops up, you chime in with a Hillary slam.  Please show me on the doll where she touched you.

Oh, really, How many times has a thread popped up blaming the Republicans for killing 59 Americans?

JohnInCarolina

thetrim said:

JohnInCarolina said:

thetrim said:

Too soon, @hans61 Hope this thread goes the ways of "Randomness.  I'll give YOU the benefit of the doubt, but that unbelievable "cuntbag" Hillary Rodham Clinton, aka Mrs. Bill Clinton, is a despicable human being for trying to see how high they stack the bodies to try and argue a political point and push an agenda.

Lol buddy.  Any time any one of these threads pops up, you chime in with a Hillary slam.  Please show me on the doll where she touched you.

Oh, really, How many times has a thread popped up blaming the Republicans for killing 59 Americans?

I just meant political threads in general.  

blasting

I'm against a gun debate while the body count is still changing.

bgebrent

JohnInCarolina said:

Toxarch said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

JohnInCarolina said:

4Runner said:

GC works great as the law abiding citizens will certainly comply.  If we can just get the criminals to comply with the laws then...oh wait, they are criminals.  Never mind.

They've been effective in Australia, where the guy in the posted video is from.   I guess it's because they don't have any criminals down there.  

He is a comic and I believe he used the term mass....he is excluding every other crime with a gun in his country.  I think he is trying to be funny.  Also, like he points out....countries are different.  

I don't doubt our ability as a nation to come up with any and all excuses to avoid passing stricter gun control laws.  If 20 6-7 year olds getting killed in an elementary school didn't effect change, it is hard to imagine what will.

Connecticut pretty much had a green light to pass all the laws they wanted after that shooting. They passed a lot of gun control laws. Do you know how many of the new laws would have stopped the shooting if they were passed 10 years earlier? ZERO. None of the new laws would have stopped that sick individual from going into that Newtown school and shooting those kids. But all the lawmakers patted themselves on the back for passing new laws. That guy already broke a bunch of laws when he stole the guns.

Laws are for the lawful trustworthy people who follow the law. One of those laws being do not kill people.

Connecticut, like Chicago, doesn't exist in a vacuum.

You're too smart to possibly assert that any new laws will change any of this, right?  No place is in a vacuum (outside the lab), and guns are widely available and have been in the US for centuries.  You can't legislate mental illness.  And you'll never return all the guns to Big Brother.

JohnInCarolina

shtgunal3 said:

@JohnInCarolina I'm not here to argue either side. All I'm saying is taking or outlawing MY guns isn't going to solve anything.  All that will do is hurt this responsible law abiding citizen and his family. 

And for what it's worth, I don't have any of the AR-15 or semi-auto weapons. Just a few shotguns, rifles, and handguns. 

Again, carry on.

I didn't say it would solve anything.  I just said that *in general*,  which does not mean you *in particular*, fewer guns translates into fewer gun deaths, accidents, and etc.  

shtgunal3

 @JohnInCarolina   If it would let me I would give you a thumbs up emoji. 

GATraveller

I got a shotgun a rifle and a four wheel drive 

SemolinaPilchard

thetrim said:

JohnInCarolina said:

thetrim said:

Too soon, @hans61 Hope this thread goes the ways of "Randomness.  I'll give YOU the benefit of the doubt, but that unbelievable "cuntbag" Hillary Rodham Clinton, aka Mrs. Bill Clinton, is a despicable human being for trying to see how high they stack the bodies to try and argue a political point and push an agenda.

Lol buddy.  Any time any one of these threads pops up, you chime in with a Hillary slam.  Please show me on the doll where she touched you.

Oh, really, How many times has a thread popped up blaming the Republicans for killing 59 Americans?

Give Hillary a break, she only killed 4 Americans.

thetrim

Hank Jr's friend got wiped out for $43.  Tragedy!

g8golfer

@GATraveller don’t be making fun of my life 

bgebrent

JohnInCarolina said:

shtgunal3 said:

@JohnInCarolina I'm not here to argue either side. All I'm saying is taking or outlawing MY guns isn't going to solve anything.  All that will do is hurt this responsible law abiding citizen and his family. 

And for what it's worth, I don't have any of the AR-15 or semi-auto weapons. Just a few shotguns, rifles, and handguns. 

Again, carry on.

I didn't say it would solve anything.  I just said that *in general*,  which does not mean you *in particular*, fewer guns translates into fewer gun deaths, accidents, and etc.  

Fundamentally flawed argument John.  I get the statistics.  It's more about who has control of the guns, what is the intent of the guns etc...  1/3 of American households own guns, multiples of guns.  I own 8.  If you took 2 of my 8 away and (everyone elses) and thereby reduced the "number" of guns, would that translate to a 25% reduction in mass shootings?  Of course not.  It's an illegitimate argument.  Guns do and will exist at large.  Mental illness exists in our population.  That is the problem.  No gun law will alter that calculus.

JohnInCarolina

But I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.

Too soon?

SemolinaPilchard

If there were fewer of those Prius weiniemobiles there would be fewer blind people mowed over trying to cross the street. I say we ban weiniemobiles.

JohnInCarolina

bgebrent said:

JohnInCarolina said:

shtgunal3 said:

@JohnInCarolina I'm not here to argue either side. All I'm saying is taking or outlawing MY guns isn't going to solve anything.  All that will do is hurt this responsible law abiding citizen and his family. 

And for what it's worth, I don't have any of the AR-15 or semi-auto weapons. Just a few shotguns, rifles, and handguns. 

Again, carry on.

I didn't say it would solve anything.  I just said that *in general*,  which does not mean you *in particular*, fewer guns translates into fewer gun deaths, accidents, and etc.  

Fundamentally flawed argument John.  I get the statistics.  It's more about who has control of the guns, what is the intent of the guns etc...  1/3 of American households own guns, multiples of guns.  I own 8.  If you took 2 of my 8 away and (everyone elses) and thereby reduced the "number" of guns, would that translate to a 25% reduction in mass shootings?  Of course not.  It's an illegitimate argument.  Guns do and will exist at large.  Mental illness exists in our population.  That is the problem.  No gun law will alter that calculus.

Brent the sheer number of gun accidents alone that occur every day in the US suggests otherwise.   Put the mass shootings and murders aside and just focus on the accidents, like the five year old who reaches into mommy's purse as she's walking into Walmart and ends up blowing his own head off.  Or the link between gun ownership and suicides, as established by those cranks at some small time school in the Northeast:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/

But I'm sure you'll rationalize this all away, because what's the alternative...

bucky925

Let's save this discussion for a time when we have morned for Las Vegas.  There will be plenty of time to debate this, but NOT NOW!  Just my high school deploma working. 

bgebrent

JohnInCarolina said:

bgebrent said:

JohnInCarolina said:

shtgunal3 said:

@JohnInCarolina I'm not here to argue either side. All I'm saying is taking or outlawing MY guns isn't going to solve anything.  All that will do is hurt this responsible law abiding citizen and his family. 

And for what it's worth, I don't have any of the AR-15 or semi-auto weapons. Just a few shotguns, rifles, and handguns. 

Again, carry on.

I didn't say it would solve anything.  I just said that *in general*,  which does not mean you *in particular*, fewer guns translates into fewer gun deaths, accidents, and etc.  

Fundamentally flawed argument John.  I get the statistics.  It's more about who has control of the guns, what is the intent of the guns etc...  1/3 of American households own guns, multiples of guns.  I own 8.  If you took 2 of my 8 away and (everyone elses) and thereby reduced the "number" of guns, would that translate to a 25% reduction in mass shootings?  Of course not.  It's an illegitimate argument.  Guns do and will exist at large.  Mental illness exists in our population.  That is the problem.  No gun law will alter that calculus.

Brent the sheer number of gun accidents alone that occur every day in the US suggests otherwise.   Put the mass shootings and murders aside and just focus on the accidents, like the five year old who reaches into mommy's purse as she's walking into Walmart and ends up blowing his own head off.  Or the link between gun ownership and suicides, as established by those cranks at some small time school in the Northeast:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/

But I'm sure you'll rationalize this all away, because what's the alternative...

No rationalization my friend.  Gun ownership, just as car ownership or motorcycle ownership is still governed by Darwinism.  I know you agree.  The prerequisites of automobile ownership are far less onerous than gun ownership, yet it is still, and unfortunately more frequently a deadly weapon whether by accident or intentionally.  More than guns by a long shot.  Will more legislation change that?  Ummm, no.  Nor would it change gun violence.
Suicide is a different and tragic issue.  We'll have to legislate against belts (Robin Williams etc..) and prescription medications because they are behind uncountable suicides.  We must also legislate against people becoming dentists, psychiatrists or surgeons because their suicide rate is the highest among medical professionals.  Blame the culprit man, mental illness.  

Spaightlabs

bgebrent said:

JohnInCarolina said:

shtgunal3 said:

@JohnInCarolina I'm not here to argue either side. All I'm saying is taking or outlawing MY guns isn't going to solve anything.  All that will do is hurt this responsible law abiding citizen and his family. 

And for what it's worth, I don't have any of the AR-15 or semi-auto weapons. Just a few shotguns, rifles, and handguns. 

Again, carry on.

I didn't say it would solve anything.  I just said that *in general*,  which does not mean you *in particular*, fewer guns translates into fewer gun deaths, accidents, and etc.  

Fundamentally flawed argument John.  I get the statistics.  It's more about who has control of the guns, what is the intent of the guns etc...  1/3 of American households own guns, multiples of guns.  I own 8.  If you took 2 of my 8 away and (everyone elses) and thereby reduced the "number" of guns, would that translate to a 25% reduction in mass shootings?  Of course not.  It's an illegitimate argument.  Guns do and will exist at large.  Mental illness exists in our population.  That is the problem.  No gun law will alter that calculus.

The logic of those with fealty to the NRA has always and will,always be "any change in the current situation will not prevent 100% of shootings so we should do nothing"

thus, since dui laws do not prevent 100% of drunk induced deaths we should never have tightened the dui laws.

we have to start somewhere.  Universal background checks?  Fully auto weapons?

your retort of course will be that this cat passed  a background check. 

thetrim

JohnInCarolina said:

thetrim said:

JohnInCarolina said:

thetrim said:

Too soon, @hans61 Hope this thread goes the ways of "Randomness.  I'll give YOU the benefit of the doubt, but that unbelievable "cuntbag" Hillary Rodham Clinton, aka Mrs. Bill Clinton, is a despicable human being for trying to see how high they stack the bodies to try and argue a political point and push an agenda.

Lol buddy.  Any time any one of these threads pops up, you chime in with a Hillary slam.  Please show me on the doll where she touched you.

Oh, really, How many times has a thread popped up blaming the Republicans for killing 59 Americans?

I just meant political threads in general.  

But you said....   

bgebrent

Spaightlabs said:

bgebrent said:

JohnInCarolina said:

shtgunal3 said:

@JohnInCarolina I'm not here to argue either side. All I'm saying is taking or outlawing MY guns isn't going to solve anything.  All that will do is hurt this responsible law abiding citizen and his family. 

And for what it's worth, I don't have any of the AR-15 or semi-auto weapons. Just a few shotguns, rifles, and handguns. 

Again, carry on.

I didn't say it would solve anything.  I just said that *in general*,  which does not mean you *in particular*, fewer guns translates into fewer gun deaths, accidents, and etc.  

Fundamentally flawed argument John.  I get the statistics.  It's more about who has control of the guns, what is the intent of the guns etc...  1/3 of American households own guns, multiples of guns.  I own 8.  If you took 2 of my 8 away and (everyone elses) and thereby reduced the "number" of guns, would that translate to a 25% reduction in mass shootings?  Of course not.  It's an illegitimate argument.  Guns do and will exist at large.  Mental illness exists in our population.  That is the problem.  No gun law will alter that calculus.

The logic of those with fealty to the NRA has always and will,always be "any change in the current situation will not prevent 100% of shootings so we should do nothing"

thus, since dui laws do not prevent 100% of drunk induced deaths we should never have tightened the dui laws.

we have to start somewhere.  Universal background checks?  Fully auto weapons?

your retort of course will be that this cat passed  a background check. 

No retort brother, read above.  Your statement is also flawed.  I'm all for background checks on ALL firearm sales unless within a family.  If you think any new law you could imagine will change a thing, your confused.

4Runner

Spaightlabs said:

bgebrent said:

JohnInCarolina said:

shtgunal3 said:

@JohnInCarolina I'm not here to argue either side. All I'm saying is taking or outlawing MY guns isn't going to solve anything.  All that will do is hurt this responsible law abiding citizen and his family. 

And for what it's worth, I don't have any of the AR-15 or semi-auto weapons. Just a few shotguns, rifles, and handguns. 

Again, carry on.

I didn't say it would solve anything.  I just said that *in general*,  which does not mean you *in particular*, fewer guns translates into fewer gun deaths, accidents, and etc.  

Fundamentally flawed argument John.  I get the statistics.  It's more about who has control of the guns, what is the intent of the guns etc...  1/3 of American households own guns, multiples of guns.  I own 8.  If you took 2 of my 8 away and (everyone elses) and thereby reduced the "number" of guns, would that translate to a 25% reduction in mass shootings?  Of course not.  It's an illegitimate argument.  Guns do and will exist at large.  Mental illness exists in our population.  That is the problem.  No gun law will alter that calculus.

The logic of those with fealty to the NRA has always and will,always be "any change in the current situation will not prevent 100% of shootings so we should do nothing"

thus, since dui laws do not prevent 100% of drunk induced deaths we should never have tightened the dui laws.

we have to start somewhere.  Universal background checks?  Fully auto weapons?

your retort of course will be that this cat passed  a background check. 

Wait a minute....fully auto is illegal.  I'm sure the thug complied with that law and didn't use a fully auto.  That would be illegal.