Trump Coming in Clutch!

Battleborn

Boy, this escalated quickly. 

Buckwoody Egger

yes Carville is 80 years old. it sure does seem like we have an age gap / void / saddle curve in political noisemakers. the term gerontocracy is out there. 

ColbyLang

JohnInCarolina said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I wasn’t aware that Duke professors were so poorly paid John.

You're confused.  I'm not the one claiming I don't have money, you see?

Never claimed I don’t have money. All I said was I’m far from wealthy. That I work for my income, as does my wife. 

Dyal_SC

It’s interesting when politics and religion are brought up at the dinner table. Political psychology — “politics makes ‘bass turds’ out of us all.” 

lkapigian

Being happy and able to contribute in a positive manner is all the wealth I’ll ever need 

JohnInCarolina

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I wasn’t aware that Duke professors were so poorly paid John.

You're confused.  I'm not the one claiming I don't have money, you see?

Never claimed I don’t have money. All I said was I’m far from wealthy. That I work for my income, as does my wife. 

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted this:

Buckwoody Egger

jewel did a good job explaining why she participated in the rfk jr event. in a nutshell she said the mental health issue is more important than political party lines, she is not waiting until everything is perfect to act, she is willing to work with anybody.  

JohnInCarolina

Buckwoody Egger said:

jewel did a good job explaining why she participated in the rfk jr event. in a nutshell she said the mental health issue is more important than political party lines, she is not waiting until everything is perfect to act, she is willing to work with anybody.  

I like Jewel and the work she's done on the mental health front, but... this was clearly a mistake.  RFK Jr. clearly holds some nutty (and dangerous) views in the medical space.  Anything that lends him credibility is problematic.  That really doesn't have anything to do with "party lines".  RFK Jr isn't really a Republican in the first place.  

There are certainly cases where it makes sense to try and find common ground with people in positions of power and work with them on a common cause, but this is not one of them.  

Buckwoody Egger

i think the jewel example is helpful for america right now. the election is done.  republicans have the numbers to pick whoever. there will be a lot of lawsuits to block or delay various rush jobs which is fine and sometimes that’s the only option. we may even get to a point that republicans support an impeachment. doubtful but not impossible.

my point is being results focused as the over arching strategy beats stalemate every time. the conversations align much more with traditional problem solving.

we have evolved to a point now where the news cycle can’t keep up with the pace of false statements and personal attacks.

the faster we get to work, the faster the shortcomings are exposed. stalemates delay that. 

JohnInCarolina

Buckwoody Egger said:

i think the jewel example is helpful for america right now. the election is done.  republicans have the numbers to pick whoever. there will be a lot of lawsuits to block or delay various rush jobs which is fine and sometimes that’s the only option. we may even get to a point that republicans support an impeachment. doubtful but not impossible.

my point is being results focused as the over arching strategy beats stalemate every time. the conversations align much more with traditional problem solving.

we have evolved to a point now where the news cycle can’t keep up with the pace of false statements and personal attacks.

the faster we get to work, the faster the shortcomings are exposed. stalemates delay that. 

We should forego our principles in the name of expediency, in other words?  I bet this is what lots of Germans once told themselves as they were helping to load some of their neighbors onto trains.  

I’m not actually someone who takes the view that politics has to be perfect.  On the contrary, I think perfect is often the enemy of the good.  I just don’t think a common-sense middle ground means people should be lending credibility to folks who are obviously dangerous and deranged.  That normalizes them, which only helps erode the very fabric that underpins so much of society.  

Legume

and if Jewel thinks rfk has the right approach, is honest in wanting to do what he says and the ability to move that forward without significant collateral damage, that's great. fundamentally, this is what bothers me with single issue voting and focus - it ignores the cost of getting there, the ability to get there and the motivations to get there.

I don't want to be misunderstood, I am all-in on well thought out and funded approaches to the mental health crisis in this country. Will it cost more, absolutely.  Who should pay for it, be it additional funding or funding coming from some other program, that's always the debate, the sticking point. Do I fear rfk, especially in the current administration represents a bigger overall risk, I do. But on balance, I love the attention to it. 

But compare this to Obamacare, something had to be done, we have too many people without decent access to or coverage of even basic healthcare. The affordable care act moved to address that. But rather than embrace an imperfect solution and work to improve and refine it over years and administrations, it was demonized for political gain and has been a dividing line ever since. I have no false hopes that it survives this administration and that will put us where, square one, millions of people with inadequate access and coverage? But as a political tool, some will erect monuments and hang banners celebrating "I killed obamacare, the scourge of our nation"

Someone killed NAFTA, then quickly put a very slightly modified version of it in place with a new name, new branding and threw themselves a parade.

Standing on the shoulders of our predecessors, building, refining, perfecting, that's the way.  Not branding. The people we elect spend too much time and effort trying to tear down what someone from the other side of the aisle did, in the name of branding and trying to build a false legacy.

JohnInCarolina

“Why can’t we just all get along and work together to get things done?” rings a bit hollow at this moment in time, especially for people who have any adjacency to undocumented immigrants, reproductive rights, science, climate change, etc.

DoubleEgger

JohnInCarolina said:

“Why can’t we just all get along and work together to get things done?” rings a bit hollow at this moment in time, especially for people who have any adjacency to undocumented immigrants, science, climate change, etc.

I never heard that while Biden was in office. The GOP said they wanted to derail the administration’s agenda at every opportunity. They actively worked to do that. Tommy Tuberville’s antics with military promotions is a perfect example. 

DoubleEgger

DoubleEgger said:

DoubleEgger said:

If anyone can explain to me why Pete Hegseth is the best, most qualified person to lead our military, I’m all ears and willing to listen. 

Just checking back in on this. Surely there’s someone who can explain Pete’s qualifications to me. 

Anyone? Anyone?  

Buckwoody Egger

all good points. i haven’t read enough about jewel to see if she is compromising anything or is actually employing a trojan horse approach. 

goal:  get a seat at the table and advocate for the same things with the same voracity

so yes i didn’t mean give up or give in. it’s asking that we actually do better than perpetuate inaction. trump wasn’t hiding anything when he, while only the nominee, blocked the border deal so he could keep it as an agenda item. that was deplorable and beneath the decency we would expect of any human or group of humans. 

republican burchett of knoxville, as cantankerous and sound bite addicted as he is, speculated many republicans vote the way they do because they have all been blackmailed. no action taken, no problem solved just “let’s eat the turd sandwich at our picnic”. 

so i am not saying kumbaya love circle, i am saying be willing to get to work. 

Buckwoody Egger

…because there is absolutely a possibility that when we get to work we will see that the evil, incompetent and unprepared will be exposed, the consequences of enabling them will teach people the value of a vote and the cost of a misplaced one. 

everything else is stephen a smith show on espn. 

caliking

Now that we have a 4* President, this thread has devolved to 4*ness. 

JohnInCarolina

@Buckwoody Egger I think a much smarter strategy for the Democratic party right now is to play the full opposition role.  Paint Trump and the GOP's primary policies and priorities for what they are, problematic and unhelpful to the average Joe, and work hard to take back at least the House during the midterms.  Once they have actual leverage, then they can work with Trump and members of the other party to get stuff done.  

"be willing to get to work" only makes sense when both parties are genuinely interested in governing, or at least have some incentive to compromise with each other.  That's just not where we are right now.

Buckwoody Egger

ok that makes sense JIC. i am a little skeptical on the effectiveness of doomsday forecasting as a way to obtain leverage (probably due to the election results) and where that leverage will actually be. public opinion polling has not been a driver of the republican agenda in a lot of categories but resonated in enough to get wins up and down the ballot. 

 although probably bettter in OT appreciate the dialogue to evaluate the crazy week and weeks to come.  i am firing up the egg for beef on weck, hope to make a post about it. 

JohnInCarolina

Buckwoody Egger said:

ok that makes sense JIC. i am a little skeptical on the effectiveness of doomsday forecasting as a way to obtain leverage (probably due to the election results) and where that leverage will actually be. public opinion polling has not been a driver of the republican agenda in a lot of categories but resonated in enough to get wins up and down the ballot. 

Probably you misunderstood, because that's not what I was suggesting.  

It's not "doomsday forecasting" to point out who tax cuts for the wealthy mostly benefit, and decide not to vote for them on those grounds.  I haven't really seen anything other than that in terms of a genuine legislative agenda from the GOP, have you?  Cutting Social Security?  If they do that, it won't be hard to fight at the ballot box.  

Historically the party controlling the White House and both the House and Senate takes a beating during the midterm.  Given how small the margin is in the House (where the GOP actually lost ground during the election, let's remember), it won't take much to flip it back to the Democrats.  

Legume

People listen to the news and opinion sources that they trust, which now means hearing about which other sources to not trust.

I hate to say it, but I believe it will take people feeling pain that is personal to them in some way. Like the many people that formed new opinions on the value of vaccines after they lost loved ones and broke with the tribal narratives they had been consuming on Facebook, Joe Rogan, etc.

That's what changes minds.  This is just a meme, but this is what I mean.

Buckwoody Egger

if the talking points haven’t changed from before the election then i think it’s ok to be skeptical of their effectiveness.  my take on agenda is that there were 5 terms worth of agenda from the project 2025 and similar— which trump refuted but is now picking from like a menu.  any new talking points as a response to recent actions might do it.

obtaining leverage midterm is a good point.  it’s possible but we are already hearing 3 term noise. i hope the talking points for midterm are results based. kamala took a lot of heat for not having enough substantive plans (which fed doomsday logic as well) —  although i felt she had enough to get to the table on the big stuff. 

Buckwoody Egger

lol legume. instead of “who farted?” it’s “who FAFO’d?”

i didnt FAFO you FAFO’d!!!  

he who felt it dealt it

JohnInCarolina

Buckwoody Egger said:

if the talking points haven’t changed from before the election then i think it’s ok to be skeptical of their effectiveness.  my take on agenda is that there were 5 terms worth of agenda from the project 2025 and similar— which trump refuted but is now picking from like a menu.  any new talking points as a response to recent actions might do it.

obtaining leverage midterm is a good point.  it’s possible but we are already hearing 3 term noise. i hope the talking points for midterm are results based. kamala took a lot of heat for not having enough substantive plans (which fed doomsday logic as well) —  although i felt she had enough to get to the table on the big stuff. 

The key difference for Kamala is that she was rightfully perceived to be part of the party in power.  Her campaign was essentially viewed as a continuation of Biden's policies.  I don't think she did anywhere near enough to differentiate what would be her policies from what were his, but I also think she was in a tough spot.  Lots of people blamed Biden for inflation.  What do you say to combat something like that when it's not terribly grounded in reality in the first place?  

I'm skeptical at this point that the American people vote on the basis of policies anyway.  They seem to vote more on the basis of "vibes".  So basically, in two years if the vibe is that the GOP has done more harm than good, or if the average person feels like things haven't gotten much better, they'll be voted out.  

DoubleEgger

Here’s a viewpoint to consider @Buckwoody Egger. It’s worth your time. 

https://youtu.be/g1ACmdglOSA?si=bbr1nCxbR5ee0teb

JohnInCarolina

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1ACmdglOSA

DoubleEgger

JohnInCarolina said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1ACmdglOSA

Now you’re just showing off your embedding skillz. 

Buckwoody Egger

quality flavor flav / zuckerberg joke in there. 

ColbyLang

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I wasn’t aware that Duke professors were so poorly paid John.

You're confused.  I'm not the one claiming I don't have money, you see?

Never claimed I don’t have money. All I said was I’m far from wealthy. That I work for my income, as does my wife. 

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted this:

You did. I’m not stupid wealthy, or even wealthy at all. I also don’t have as much saved as I’d like. So be it. I surely am not a tenured professor at a prestigious institution wealthy. And guess what, I’m still ok. I’ve got a beautiful family and an XL big green egg, life’s good

JohnInCarolina

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I wasn’t aware that Duke professors were so poorly paid John.

You're confused.  I'm not the one claiming I don't have money, you see?

Never claimed I don’t have money. All I said was I’m far from wealthy. That I work for my income, as does my wife. 

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted this:

You did. I’m not stupid wealthy, or even wealthy at all. I also don’t have as much saved as I’d like. So be it. I surely am not a tenured professor at a prestigious institution wealthy. And guess what, I’m still ok. I’ve got a beautiful family and an XL big green egg, life’s good

Haha, we really don’t make that much man.  I couldn’t afford that boat you have, for example, even going halfsies with my brother.

But I’m not begrudging you your wealth by any stretch.  Regardless, I think you vastly missed @DoubleEgger’s point, which really wasn’t about whether your wealth is inherited or not.