Do you buy the same make car/truck and new or used? Diversion topic-

YukonRon

nolaegghead said:

Ron, if you want a beast that will tow anything up a mountain and run forever, you should look at the 2500 Ram with the Cummings diesel.  If you want to buy used, some years are better than others.  I read the 2014 is good.

I have looked at those, and I do like them.

However, here, where the weather requires very little salt on the roads (2-3X/yr), relative to areas which it is more common from November to April, the corrosion on those trucks are somewhat troubling.

Many of the shops in the Midwest, claim these trucks go bad in a hurry with oxidation, and due to some dissimilar metals, galvanic corrosion, especially so on the beds, over the wheel wells.

I was looking at a couple of used ones, and they already had the bubbling paint from rust. Both were 2017 models.

The ones I have seen, ten years old or less, are eat up from the ground up. Anyone else notice similar? I do want something that can yank up and down the passes, and something that will last.

My '97 Ford was the last of the hexavalent/trivalent chromium metal treatment, has been with me all over the world, and is just now starting to rust on the doors. It is soon to be 25 years old. It is in far better shape than the Dodge trucks I have seen from 2012 to 2019, when comparing the damage rust has caused. 

I know I am not comparing apples to apples when evaluating finishes, but, poor performance against rust creep is a concern. The rest of the Ford Expedition is a constant toolbox expander, but the finish was impressive.

I do know Ford went without adding copper to the alloy they used from '98 to 2010, creating an oxidation issue that is pretty bad on aluminum pieces, and since have made the change in the alloy to prevent/mitigate the rust issue.

There was/is a class action lawsuit over the corrosion issues, which Ford acknowledged and replaced panels, when owners complained at the dealerships. The epoxy they were using at the time, in the dip tanks, was not the answer, but we have since converted them to a better application, which has been a vast improvement from where they were.

Fiat/Chrysler uses the same epoxy dip that Ford used previously. Not that it is entirely the epoxy coating, but, it is a minor concern.

Anyway, the work to figure out what we will do has been a challenge, but I have to admit, for a research nerd like me, it has been fun.

TideEggHead

@YukonRon My best friend has a 2019 ram 2500, and it does have the rust problems already. He bought it used (looks like it came from Galveston). Light rust all over the under carriage of the truck. A couple of mechanics told him that is pretty standard on the ram trucks due to the types of metals they use? I think they said they leave them unfinished on purpose, don't quote me on that. Rust on the engine is standard too but according to them neither are problems other than cosmetically. For whatever that is worth. He loves that truck and gets better gas mileage all around than my Tundra, which is expected. He tows tractors frequently.

My tundra gets about 16.5 in town during spring, summer and early fall. Winter is more like 14.5-15 mpg, all not towing. I've heard where the tacomas get worse numbers towing, no matter the weight, than the tundra.

fishlessman

YukonRon said:

nolaegghead said:

Ron, if you want a beast that will tow anything up a mountain and run forever, you should look at the 2500 Ram with the Cummings diesel.  If you want to buy used, some years are better than others.  I read the 2014 is good.

I have looked at those, and I do like them.

However, here, where the weather requires very little salt on the roads (2-3X/yr), relative to areas which it is more common from November to April, the corrosion on those trucks are somewhat troubling.

Many of the shops in the Midwest, claim these trucks go bad in a hurry with oxidation, and due to some dissimilar metals, galvanic corrosion, especially so on the beds, over the wheel wells.

I was looking at a couple of used ones, and they already had the bubbling paint from rust. Both were 2017 models.

The ones I have seen, ten years old or less, are eat up from the ground up. Anyone else notice similar? I do want something that can yank up and down the passes, and something that will last.

My '97 Ford was the last of the hexavalent/trivalent chromium metal treatment, has been with me all over the world, and is just now starting to rust on the doors. It is soon to be 25 years old. It is in far better shape than the Dodge trucks I have seen from 2012 to 2019, when comparing the damage rust has caused. 

I know I am not comparing apples to apples when evaluating finishes, but, poor performance against rust creep is a concern. The rest of the Ford Expedition is a constant toolbox expander, but the finish was impressive.

I do know Ford went without adding copper to the alloy they used from '98 to 2010, creating an oxidation issue that is pretty bad on aluminum pieces, and since have made the change in the alloy to prevent/mitigate the rust issue.

There was/is a class action lawsuit over the corrosion issues, which Ford acknowledged and replaced panels, when owners complained at the dealerships. The epoxy they were using at the time, in the dip tanks, was not the answer, but we have since converted them to a better application, which has been a vast improvement from where they were.

Fiat/Chrysler uses the same epoxy dip that Ford used previously. Not that it is entirely the epoxy coating, but, it is a minor concern.

Anyway, the work to figure out what we will do has been a challenge, but I have to admit, for a research nerd like me, it has been fun.

theres a 2017 dodge 2500hd deisel set up here for plowing, the owner is meticulous with it though, once a week touchless car wash with an underbelly rinse, washes after everyday of plowing. its holding up (metal flakes get stuck in the paint from all the plowing frome probably sparks off the blade, they need to be polished out as you can actually see these micro dots of rust forming) salt here is insane, the dog goes belly up with paws in the air, even my old tough german shepard would flip with paws in the air.  i dont know a toyota truck that hasnt had a frame replacement after 10/12 years and thats going back to the 70's. town bought chevy plow trucks about 3 years ago, theframes are rusted junk, gmc seems a little better, caddie paints really stand up well but then someone will key the whole thing out in a lot. have not noticed any rusting on my f650 but the guy with the dodge drives and maintains that one as well with washes and raising the bed with paint touchups on the frame. rover paint holds up but the truck is sometype of reinforced plastic except for the tailgate.

dbCooper

nolaegghead said:

We all love and pine for the old '60s and '70s muscle cars.  But despite the massive displacement and big block hype, they don't hold a candle to more modern muscle cars, or sports/sporty cars.  Advertised HP was "gross HP", measured with an engine on a test stand with no air filter or accessories.  Today it is "net HP", measured on a dynamometer at the rear wheels. 

Good read on this here.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/archived/horsepower/

Nice article, thanks for sharing.

Beyond the impressive performance of "modern" cars they also excel at handling, safety, comfort, reliability and emissions when comparing to those from the muscle era.  In some cases modern even has better styling. 

For raw straight-line performance comparisons this site has some useful info...

https://www.zeroto60times.com/

BigreenGreg

dbCooper said:

That Camaro, a true C.O.P.O. car or someone swapped in the 427?    A 69 that was born with a 427 is quite the rare beast, something like only 100 made.

It was represented as a dealer engine swap car, I could never prove it. Doesn’t matter I sold as a plea bargain condition to get out of a reckless driving ticket. A definite win for the traveling public.

blind99

dbCooper said:

nolaegghead said:

We all love and pine for the old '60s and '70s muscle cars.  But despite the massive displacement and big block hype, they don't hold a candle to more modern muscle cars, or sports/sporty cars.  Advertised HP was "gross HP", measured with an engine on a test stand with no air filter or accessories.  Today it is "net HP", measured on a dynamometer at the rear wheels. 

Good read on this here.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/archived/horsepower/

Nice article, thanks for sharing.

Beyond the impressive performance of "modern" cars they also excel at handling, safety, comfort, reliability and emissions when comparing to those from the muscle era.  In some cases modern even has better styling. 

For raw straight-line performance comparisons this site has some useful info...

https://www.zeroto60times.com/

it's amazing to see honda accords doing sub 6 0-60 mph, and civics and subies doing sub 5. 

ColbyLang

nolaegghead said:

We all love and pine for the old '60s and '70s muscle cars.  But despite the massive displacement and big block hype, they don't hold a candle to more modern muscle cars, or sports/sporty cars.  Advertised HP was "gross HP", measured with an engine on a test stand with no air filter or accessories.  Today it is "net HP", measured on a dynamometer at the rear wheels. 

Good read on this here.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/archived/horsepower/

Truth. Dad has a 1973 Formula 455 with working RAM air. Engine is uge, throaty......makes a whopping 275-300 HP. My moms Genesis G90 would absolutely eat it’s lunch in a race

bubbajack

2020 Tesla Model X Performance 'Ludicrous+'

0-60 mph 2.6

nolaegghead

CornfedMA

Legume said:

@YukonRon I have read that for towing at highway speed, the naturally aspirated v8s are more efficient than the turbos, like the Ford ecoboost.  I only have experience with the Ford 3.5 eco in a full size truck and the value there is in torque for hills and acceleration and the sweet spot for efficiency seems to be 50-60, maybe 65 mph.  70+ and mpg drops off considerably.  But it will climb a wall.

You nailed it. I have a 2015 F-150 with the 3.5 that just rolled 200k and I tow with it on a semi-regular basis. Anywhere from 4-11k lbs on the hitch. It beats the wheels off my previous F-150 which was the last year of the 5.4 triton. I’m not impressed with mpg during regular highway driving. 

nolaegghead

McStew

No loyalty at all for us and we only buy new.  I still have the fist new car I ever purchased, 1989 Toyota pickup 56k miles on it to this day.  The rest of them typically rotate every 3-4 years.  

I just picked up a Subaru WRX and love it.  It’s my latest project for over-landing.  

CPFC1905

Seems I am a brand loyalist,  we've had at least one BMW between us for the last 25 years.  

Now that my Saab itch has been scratched I am mulling over playing the field a bit more.   SWMBO has decreed a Mini convertible or nothing, asap.   And when I say nothing, you now that means every facet of domestic life. 

My current X3 is too useful and low value to do anything with but keep until our next house move is over,  including the inevitable de-cluttering afterwards, that could take me through to Summer. 

If I could flash forward to the next fleet refresh we would go from Saab and X3 to, Mini 'vert,  MB E-Class Coupe and Suzuki Jimny.    One of those will happen.

I find the milage aspect interesting.  I buy on miles not age, having done all the reliability and cost due diligence.   The MB coupe's I have looked at are about £15k with 30 - 40k miles.  I wouldn't go much higher than that.   My X3 is mid 70's now and I am getting nervous. 

pgprescott

I tend to buy lightly used or certified. I look for value within categories. I buy Japanese cars or the Volkswagens. Have had two mercury minivans in the past cuz the Chrysler ones offered less value. They were in higher demand and commanded premium prices. This year I bought my third and fourth new vehicles. Seems the COVID-19 produced some great deals along with all it’s terribleness. Got a Chevy Silverado RST and replaced our Murano with a new Platinum. We were driving 2007 Accord V6 and 2012 Murano LS. It was time. Kids finally bought there own vehicles over the last two years. I was looking used on the truck and car, but the new pricing got so close to the used I couldn’t pass it up. 

CPFC1905

pgprescott said:

I tend to buy lightly used or certified. I look for value within categories. I buy Japanese cars or the Volkswagens. Have had two mercury minivans in the past cuz the Chrysler ones offered less value. They were in higher demand and commanded premium prices. This year I bought my third and fourth new vehicles. Seems the COVID-19 produced some great deals along with all it’s terribleness. Got a Chevy Silverado RST and replaced our Murano with a new Platinum. We were driving 2007 Accord V6 and 2012 Murano LS. It was time. Kids finally bought there own vehicles over the last two years. I was looking used on the truck and car, but the new pricing got so close to the used I couldn’t pass it up. 

So I Googled;  Silverado RST  
How about you Google Suzuki Jimny?  I reckon one of those would fit in the cab of one of yours.  The engine would certainly fit in a cup holder.   

alaskanassasin

I took the bait @CPFC1905. The Jimny is a sweet looking little ride, do you get to off road much?  The Suzuki Samurai was a bit of a flop in the US but it did develop a cult following for its off road capability and is now a sought after OHV.  C&D describes the Jimny as wide as a fiat 500 and tall as a ford edge, about the size of a Willys CJ?

pgprescott

CPFC1905 said:

pgprescott said:

I tend to buy lightly used or certified. I look for value within categories. I buy Japanese cars or the Volkswagens. Have had two mercury minivans in the past cuz the Chrysler ones offered less value. They were in higher demand and commanded premium prices. This year I bought my third and fourth new vehicles. Seems the COVID-19 produced some great deals along with all it’s terribleness. Got a Chevy Silverado RST and replaced our Murano with a new Platinum. We were driving 2007 Accord V6 and 2012 Murano LS. It was time. Kids finally bought there own vehicles over the last two years. I was looking used on the truck and car, but the new pricing got so close to the used I couldn’t pass it up. 

So I Googled;  Silverado RST  
How about you Google Suzuki Jimny?  I reckon one of those would fit in the cab of one of yours.  The engine would certainly fit in a cup holder.   

Yeah, the ole rollover “kerfufful” basically put an end to Suzuki in the states. We have an abundance of attorneys. Looks fun! 

CPFC1905

alaskanassasin said:

I took the bait @CPFC1905. The Jimny is a sweet looking little ride, do you get to off road much?  The Suzuki Samurai was a bit of a flop in the US but it did develop a cult following for its off road capability and is now a sought after OHV.  C&D describes the Jimny as wide as a fiat 500 and tall as a ford edge, about the size of a Willys CJ?

They are tiny. I will look for one when we live because the roads are very rural, so narrow and muddy.  Problem is they are very popular for off-road antics, which means they suddenly become very rare at the £2k mark as they are re-purposed as weekend mid warriors 

frazzdaddy

CPFC1905 said:

Seems I am a brand loyalist,  we've had at least one BMW between us for the last 25 years.  

Now that my Saab itch has been scratched I am mulling over playing the field a bit more.   SWMBO has decreed a Mini convertible or nothing, asap.   And when I say nothing, you now that means every facet of domestic life. 

My current X3 is too useful and low value to do anything with but keep until our next house move is over,  including the inevitable de-cluttering afterwards, that could take me through to Summer. 

If I could flash forward to the next fleet refresh we would go from Saab and X3 to, Mini 'vert,  MB E-Class Coupe and Suzuki Jimny.    One of those will happen.

I find the milage aspect interesting.  I buy on miles not age, having done all the reliability and cost due diligence.   The MB coupe's I have looked at are about £15k with 30 - 40k miles.  I wouldn't go much higher than that.   My X3 is mid 70's now and I am getting nervous. 

PM me when you start looking. I will give you some things to look for.

nolaegghead

@CPFC1905 I salute you for your bravery if you are buying a mini cooper.  They are second only to land rovers in unreliability (especially systemic major engine problems). 

Markarm4119

My wife and I have only bought 2 new cars in our lives, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 2013 Ford F 150 super crew. Best driving/ riding car was a 1995 Buick Park Avenue.
I have been blessed to have been provided company vehicles for 30 plus years.
Owned GMC , FORD, CHEVY trucks, Acura TL, still running w225k on it. 2003 Hyundai Sonata  just sold with 169k on it, still running fine.
Wife's late father and brother  were were mechanics, own  garages.
Change oil every 3k, brakes, none had major issues.
Worst experiences tended to be with Chrysler\Dodge auto products ( company vehicles) Dodge now Ram trucks were always good.

EggNorth

Lots of nice vehicles here, I’m boring .... been getting Toyota Corollas for a while.  They were made down the street here so that had something to do with it.  Plus they last a long time.

Wife has a Yaris, which she really likes.

Will not buy a Civic, they come with no muffler or signal lights and I refuse to pay extra for that 

Legume

EggNorth said:

Lots of nice vehicles here, I’m boring .... been getting Toyota Corollas for a while.  They were made down the street here so that had something to do with it.  Plus they last a long time.

Wife has a Yaris, which she really likes.

Will not buy a Civic, they come with no muffler or signal lights and I refuse to pay extra for that 

No turn signals?  Is that even legal?

EggNorth

Legume said:

EggNorth said:

Lots of nice vehicles here, I’m boring .... been getting Toyota Corollas for a while.  They were made down the street here so that had something to do with it.  Plus they last a long time.

Wife has a Yaris, which she really likes.

Will not buy a Civic, they come with no muffler or signal lights and I refuse to pay extra for that 

No turn signals?  Is that even legal?

Seems to be around here.

Of course I was joking,  Civic is a great car.

lousubcap

@EggNorth - great jab at the tricked out louder than life Civics that race around here.  

GrateEggspectations

A little OT to be sure, but am I the only one who sometimes toasts the wife’s buns without warning - just for fun?

Legume

GrateEggspectations said:

A little OT to be sure, but am I the only one who sometimes toasts the wife’s buns without warning - just for fun?

Yes, ongoing battle here, cool in the winter and hot in the summer.

nolaegghead

nolaegghead

Concept car that almost made it - Trans Am Type K

You need both a mullet and a porn stache to buy one.

CPFC1905

nolaegghead said:

Concept car that almost made it - Trans Am Type K

You need both a mullet and a porn stache to buy one.

Porn ‘tache or porn stash?