OT - For Car Lovers: Some Recent Exotic Spottings

Ozzie_Isaac

nolaegghead said:

lousubcap said:

Gubmint subsidies right there.  ^^^^^

Yep.  Not only does it make us spend net more money on energy, it breaks engines (which I suppose is good for engine/parts manufacturers) and takes a big chunk of work-force out of doing something more productive.  I honestly don't know who benefits...the farmer?  

We could be using all that cropland to grow food to feed people and animals.  Or forrest for lumber.

Ethanol fields are also cut right down to base of the stalk.  No bio-mass to till back into the ground for next crop.  Increases need for fertilizer and other soil conditioners.

Botch

...

Botch

Ozzie_Isaac said:
Ethanol fields are also cut right down to base of the stalk.  No bio-mass to till back into the ground for next crop.  Increases need for fertilizer and other soil conditioners.

I did not know that.  Are the stalks also harvested/processed into ethanol?  

alaskanassasin

@nolaegghead that seemed like a fair and balanced article 

alaskanassasin

@Botch don’t listen to the goat rodeo roper. Corn harvested for food or ethanol is done with a combine which separates the kernels from the rest of the plant, chops the foliage and spreads it back onto the field.

Ozzie_Isaac

alaskanassasin said:

@Botch don’t listen to the goat rodeo roper. Corn harvested for food or ethanol is done with a combine which separates the kernels from the rest of the plant, chops the foliage and spreads it back onto the field.

In Illinois the fields I saw harvested were cut about 8" from the ground and nothing turned back into the field.  When I asked the farmer about it, he said it was for ethenol.  I had other farmers in the area tell me the same thing.  They also said they didn't rotate beans in as much because the corn paid better.

I am not a farmer, and I took them at their word, and I guarantee you know more about farming than I do.

Some quick googlz shows there were ethenol plants and processes in development around the time I talked to these farmers (~2015) in the Midwest that used cobs, husks, and stalks.  These fields may have been part of the tests, I don't know, but we avoided hunting them because they were barren.  No cover for doves or food around.  I assumed that was just standard practice.

alaskanassasin

Ozzie_Isaac said:

alaskanassasin said:

@Botch don’t listen to the goat rodeo roper. Corn harvested for food or ethanol is done with a combine which separates the kernels from the rest of the plant, chops the foliage and spreads it back onto the field.

In Illinois the fields I saw harvested were cut about 8" from the ground and nothing turned back into the field.  When I asked the farmer about it, he said it was for ethenol.  I had other farmers in the area tell me the same thing.  They also said they didn't rotate beans in as much because the corn paid better.

I am not a farmer, and I took them at their word, and I guarantee you know more about farming than I do.

Some quick googlz shows there were ethenol plants and processes in development around the time I talked to these farmers (~2015) in the Midwest that used cobs, husks, and stalks.  These fields may have been part of the tests, I don't know, but we avoided hunting them because they were barren.  No cover for doves or food around.  I assumed that was just standard practice.

Very cool, farmers are always looking for new ways to produce. I don't think it took off, I have never seen that practice done here. One advantage of the way we do it now is, we haul to the elevator and they can sell it to china or the ethanol plant next door, if you chopped it all you would be beholden to one purchaser.

nolaegghead

alaskanassasin said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

alaskanassasin said:

@Botch don’t listen to the goat rodeo roper. Corn harvested for food or ethanol is done with a combine which separates the kernels from the rest of the plant, chops the foliage and spreads it back onto the field.

In Illinois the fields I saw harvested were cut about 8" from the ground and nothing turned back into the field.  When I asked the farmer about it, he said it was for ethenol.  I had other farmers in the area tell me the same thing.  They also said they didn't rotate beans in as much because the corn paid better.

I am not a farmer, and I took them at their word, and I guarantee you know more about farming than I do.

Some quick googlz shows there were ethenol plants and processes in development around the time I talked to these farmers (~2015) in the Midwest that used cobs, husks, and stalks.  These fields may have been part of the tests, I don't know, but we avoided hunting them because they were barren.  No cover for doves or food around.  I assumed that was just standard practice.

Very cool, farmers are always looking for new ways to produce. I don't think it took off, I have never seen that practice done here. One advantage of the way we do it now is, we haul to the elevator and they can sell it to china or the ethanol plant next door, if you chopped it all you would be beholden to one purchaser.

I believe if I'm not mistaken, that ligin is in the stalks and leaves and it's a be-otch to break down to sugars for ethanol production.  Not many bacteria can eat that stuff, just fungi, and they are slooowww....so I think it wouldn't be very economical because they'd have to buy enzymes and it would extend the ferment.  If someone can figure that out, it will make ethanol dirt cheap (think lawn clippings, leaves, tree branches, paper, etc)

nolaegghead

...but if we just want BTUs, corn, the stalks and leaves and just about anything organic burns. And you can burn anything clean, you just have to deal with what's leftover.

Langner91

That must have been a special plant (manufacturing plant), a trial,  or something.  

ADM is the big corn consumer here.  The trucks are lined up for blocks here each day, filled with corn from the various grain storage facilities both on the Mississippi river, and Co-Ops / Farms.  Grain bins here are like oil wells in Texas.  They are everywhere.  They need a place to put the millions of bushels each fall.  

The grain in those trucks was stored in bins since the harvest.  The farmer had no idea if he would be putting it into a bin that was going to be sold to ADM, or to a different end user.

The other thing is that this particular ADM plant (manufacturing plant) makes ethanol and corn sweetener.  So, again, the farmer (two or three steps down the supply chain ladder) would have no prior knowledge whether his corn would get sold to ADM, and he has no way to know if they will make Ethanol or Sweetener from it.  

I have seen fields where they leave the corn plants longer, because the farmer also has beef cattle and wants to "re-harvest" the stalks to make bedding.  They roll it up like big hay-bales for the cows.

I make parts (chains, conveyors, augers) for the two major Combine OEM's.  Red ones and green ones.  Those machines have gotten so efficient in harvesting corn, that there is little grain or cover left for critters.  I saw a pheasant the other day and nearly pulled over to look at it.  Used to be very common here.  I see several eagles on my way to work, but never a pheasant.  That is because the fence lines, drainage ditches, and other cover patches are disappearing so they can plant more corn.  Since those machines just don't drop corn like they used to, and the cover spots are gone, all of those game birds are gone.

Here is an exotic costing more than most of the cars on this thread:

alaskanassasin

nolaegghead said:

Mark_B_Good said:

nolaegghead said:

JohnInCarolina said:

nolaegghead said:

Kayak said:

Strictly in the emissions-to-the-air department, the total emissions from a powerplant are lower than the emissions from all the cars that could burn the same amount of fuel. That doesn't consider all the other aspects, of course, but maybe keeps us alive long enough to be buried in solid wastes.

True, and the power plants burn fossil fuels more efficiently than cars can because of their scale and a more efficient Carnot cycle that utilizes waste heat (energy).   Although that is partially offset by inefficiencies of the grid moving the power, it is still more efficient overall.

The EPA actually has a handy little calculator that will let you compare estimates for CO2 emissions for your choice of electric vehicle compared to what you would see for a standard gasoline-powered car:

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt2

For where I live, it cuts it in about half.  That's great, but it's not zero.  

It takes more energy to move electricity and gasoline from their sources where you fill-up.  Sources are coal mines, oil wells, refineries, pipelines, power plants, etc.  They had this handy graphic on your page:

Unless you use nuclear power ... than it makes a big difference

Nuclear, solar, geothermal, hydroelectic....they all have much much smaller footprints.  I'm pretty sure the reason that calculator wanted your zipcode was to figure all of that in.

On the other hand, some fuel takes more fuel to make than it's BTU content.  (all fuel has an energy cost, but this is different)

Ethanol

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2001/08/ethanol-corn-faulted-energy-waster-scientist-says

From that:

• Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTU. "Put another way," Pimentel says, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTU."
• Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline.

Pretty effed up, right?  Also, ethanol absorbs water and water and gasoline polymerize and ruin carbs, fuel injectors, filters, etc.

 I know you are baiting me on this one... I will nibble at the risk of intervention from the thread police and make a few quick points. 

    It is funny that you failed to mention that ethanol is actually a cleaner burning fuel than gasoline sometimes the cheaper option is not always better for the environment.

    This article is over 20 years old, and this professor had a axe to grind for some reason.

    Would you rather send the money you spend on gas to a Arabian Prince or Iowa corn farmer?

    Did people complain that taking lead out of gas tore up motors? Yes, did we get past that, yes.

 

 @lousubcap

"The ethanol industry does not receive federal subsidies. Unlike those for the oil industry, tax incentives for corn ethanol disappeared years ago.

Fuel is not sold in a free market. OPEC members like Venezuela and Iran have manipulated the price of oil for decades, and the same industry that drills for oil controls access to consumers. The Renewable Fuel Standard, which is the U.S. policy that served as an on-ramp for the blending of ethanol into our fuel supply, seeks to level the playing field so we can bring consumers more renewable options at the pump.

In fact, ethanol saves taxpayer money, and it saves consumers money. Today, the ethanol industry drives $44 billion in economic activity and contributes nearly nine billion dollars in federal, state and local tax revenues. And the savings for consumers can reach $1.50 per gallon."

   Do farmers receive federal subsidies? Yes. Why? Because we produce goods that are price controlled by the federal government, unfortunately we are not trading on a free market.  Why does the government control the prices of grain that we produce? National Security. If the federal government takes your land for eminent domain do they reimburse you? Yes. Could you have made more selling that land privately? Probably.

  The amount of money I received last year from the Farm Bill was not enough to buy Staub Dutch Oven.

   

alaskanassasin

nolaegghead said:

lousubcap said:

Gubmint subsidies right there.  ^^^^^

Yep.  Not only does it make us spend net more money on energy, it breaks engines (which I suppose is good for engine/parts manufacturers) and takes a big chunk of work-force out of doing something more productive.  I honestly don't know who benefits...the farmer?  

We could be using all that cropland to grow food to feed people and animals.  Or forrest for lumber.

How much food waste is there in the United States? Each year, 108 billion pounds of food is wasted in the United States. That equates to 130 billion meals and more than $408 billion in food thrown away each year. Shockingly, nearly 40% of all food in America is wasted.

nolaegghead

I am baiting you

Ethanol does burn clean but if you include all the energy it takes that's from petroleum, it's actually less clean than just burning straight petrol.

I'll come back to this, preparing for a meeting....

alaskanassasin

nolaegghead said:

I am baiting you

Ethanol does burn clean but if you include all the energy it takes that's from petroleum, it's actually less clean than just burning straight petrol.

I'll come back to this, preparing for a meeting....

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_fuel_basics.html

fishlessman

well if they started a 20 year warranty on the new electrics and made them maintenance free for 20 years which is possible so we arent polluting the world making them, and then started making 1 million mile batteries that dont use the expensive highend metals. that would go along way. they found a huge deposit of lithium up in maine someplace, good luck digging that out of the ground, the protesters will flock and the voters will go insane if they try mining that. almost seems like we are going down the same road to me. the exhaust system in my dodge (except the muffler) lasted 30 years in my dodge and is still working, they could have made the muffler last as long but instead changed it back to rusting out systems that need replacement. oh and give me back the good gas so the ethanol failing systems on boats dont destroy the drinking waters, im kinda fond of good drinking water

Ozzie_Isaac

@Langner91 my neighbor was the maintenance manager for one of the ADM plants. Amazing operations.

That picture showing the field behind the combine is what the fields looked like, except there was some stalk still sticking out.  Glad to know that isn't a standard for ethenol.

@Botch looks like my case may have been unique or I misunderstood the farmer.

alaskanassasin

Ozzie_Isaac said:

@Langner91 my neighbor was the maintenance manager for one of the ADM plants. Amazing operations.

That picture showing the field behind the combine is what the fields looked like, except there was some stalk still sticking out.  Glad to know that isn't a standard for ethenol.

@Botch looks like my case may have been unique or I misunderstood the farmer.

 You can put stock choppers, or stalk smashers on the bottom of your corn head, this helps speed up decomposition

saluki2007

alaskanassasin said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

@Langner91 my neighbor was the maintenance manager for one of the ADM plants. Amazing operations.

That picture showing the field behind the combine is what the fields looked like, except there was some stalk still sticking out.  Glad to know that isn't a standard for ethenol.

@Botch looks like my case may have been unique or I misunderstood the farmer.

 You can put stock choppers, or stalk smashers on the bottom of your corn head, this helps speed up decomposition

And save your tires...

GrateEggspectations

Langner91 said:

That must have been a special plant (manufacturing plant), a trial,  or something.  

ADM is the big corn consumer here.  The trucks are lined up for blocks here each day, filled with corn from the various grain storage facilities both on the Mississippi river, and Co-Ops / Farms.  Grain bins here are like oil wells in Texas.  They are everywhere.  They need a place to put the millions of bushels each fall.  

The grain in those trucks was stored in bins since the harvest.  The farmer had no idea if he would be putting it into a bin that was going to be sold to ADM, or to a different end user.

The other thing is that this particular ADM plant (manufacturing plant) makes ethanol and corn sweetener.  So, again, the farmer (two or three steps down the supply chain ladder) would have no prior knowledge whether his corn would get sold to ADM, and he has no way to know if they will make Ethanol or Sweetener from it.  

I have seen fields where they leave the corn plants longer, because the farmer also has beef cattle and wants to "re-harvest" the stalks to make bedding.  They roll it up like big hay-bales for the cows.

I make parts (chains, conveyors, augers) for the two major Combine OEM's.  Red ones and green ones.  Those machines have gotten so efficient in harvesting corn, that there is little grain or cover left for critters.  I saw a pheasant the other day and nearly pulled over to look at it.  Used to be very common here.  I see several eagles on my way to work, but never a pheasant.  That is because the fence lines, drainage ditches, and other cover patches are disappearing so they can plant more corn.  Since those machines just don't drop corn like they used to, and the cover spots are gone, all of those game birds are gone.

Here is an exotic costing more than most of the cars on this thread:

Yeah, but what kind of 0-60 times does it see? 😉

Very cool. Learning a lot here. 

Langner91

0-60 Acres?  LOL

JohnInCarolina

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0898RBaWfww

RyanStl

JohnInCarolina said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0898RBaWfww

It took me a second to figure out what that was. First thought was weird motorcycle

JohnInCarolina

RyanStl said:

JohnInCarolina said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0898RBaWfww

It took me a second to figure out what that was. First thought was weird motorcycle

The Vette is the one that's just painful.  

Ozzie_Isaac

JohnInCarolina said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0898RBaWfww

Respectable showing by multiple generations of Ford crowd plows.

saluki2007

JohnInCarolina said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0898RBaWfww

And that’s why these cars have computers in them. Some douche canoe’s will never learn. If I had to guess 75% of these drives were white dudes aged 24-35 with micro peni…

Eoin

JohnInCarolina said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0898RBaWfww

A few respectable showings from idiots on this side of the pond as well.

dbCooper

JohnInCarolina said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0898RBaWfww

The Volvo burnout was very impressive, up until the engine said no more.

Ozzie_Isaac

Anybody want to guess what this Jeep Wagoneer lists for, no market adjustment on this one.  Stellantis is keeping it all for themselves.

$107,000 😳

JohnInCarolina

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Anybody want to guess what this Jeep Wagoneer lists for, no market adjustment on this one.  Stellantis is keeping it all for themselves.

$107,000 😳

That’s Tesla money.

ColbyLang

I wouldn’t pay that for 2 Jeep products.