Finally going to inject a brisket- Need some input

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Been reading a lot of food books lately and the idea of using protein isolates and phosphates to retain moisture came up in a couple of different places. One was a sausage book and it went into all the science of it and why commercial producers use these tricks almost 100% of the time. It all makes sense but I've always tried to avoid adding that stuff to my food.

I've been thinking about trying one for years and this recent read and the Costco SRF Brisket orgy I just went on pushed me over the edge. I bought 8,  4 went to others and I kept 4.  Decided I'm going to inject one, make pastrami with another and cook the remaining 2 as I normally would (unless I just fall in love with the results of the injection). 

My Kosmos Q reserve injection showed up today so I guess I'm going to stick one and cook it early am tomorrow. 

Watched a bunch of videos and just like everything else bbq- every single person has a different "only way to do it". Myron says you have to inject with the grain or else it leaves streaks and pools of injection. Butcher's BBQ says you need to go across the grain so you break through multiple strands of the grain. Other people stick it straight in top-to-bottom in the checkerboard pattern. So, any advice from you needle junkies out there? Enlighten me.

I will either leave it in the cryo or put it in a deep cambro when I inject to keep it from spraying everywhere. Outside of that, I'm open to any and all thoughts. 

lkapigian

I will be watching this thread- I have only injected brisket once and went Myron's way, so don't know if across is wrong. I have injected a Ton of Chuck Rolls and BUTTS and I think it helps, can't say I could really tell the difference on injecting a Quality Brisket

lousubcap

Paging @YukonRon as he is a needle junkie and injects briskets as well.  Might as well get one more option.  Good luck as I will be following this.  

20stone

I am both filled with rage, and curious how it turns out.

It just seems.....wrong.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

20stone said:

I am both filled with rage, and curious how it turns out.

It just seems.....wrong.

Does to me too but just had to try one before bashing it. Never done burnt ends either. Guess I'll have to pop that cherry one day as well.

lousubcap

@The Cen-Tex Smoker - consider this an intervention...you can take care of the burnt ends cherry/itch with the pork belly.  
You may lose your Texas ID card if you make the brisket sacrifice on that altar.  

The Cen-Tex Smoker

lousubcap said:

@The Cen-Tex Smoker - consider this an intervention...you can take care of the burnt ends cherry/itch with the pork belly.  
You may lose your Texas ID card if you make the brisket sacrifice on that altar.  

That is a good uh...point (sorry). I can just never bring myself to do it. After tasting this injection I am highly suspect I am headed down the right path here. Willing to admit it if I'm wrong but I may go buy a grocery store brisket to lay on the altar. 

JohnInCarolina

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

lousubcap said:

@The Cen-Tex Smoker - consider this an intervention...you can take care of the burnt ends cherry/itch with the pork belly.  
You may lose your Texas ID card if you make the brisket sacrifice on that altar.  

That is a good uh...point (sorry). I can just never bring myself to do it. After tasting this injection I am highly suspect I am headed down the right path here. Willing to admit it if I'm wrong but I may go buy a grocery store brisket to lay on the altar. 

I feel like that would actually be a better test - using say a choice brisket.  If it makes a positive difference you’re more likely to notice it.  If it screws the pooch it’s not as big a loss.

GATraveller

Interesting.  I've always been against this method so my interest is peaked.

Spaightlabs

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

lousubcap said:

@The Cen-Tex Smoker - consider this an intervention...you can take care of the burnt ends cherry/itch with the pork belly.  
You may lose your Texas ID card if you make the brisket sacrifice on that altar.  

That is a good uh...point (sorry). I can just never bring myself to do it. After tasting this injection I am highly suspect I am headed down the right path here. Willing to admit it if I'm wrong but I may go buy a grocery store brisket to lay on the altar. 

Hate to see you fall down 'flat' on an SRF.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

lousubcap said:

@The Cen-Tex Smoker - consider this an intervention...you can take care of the burnt ends cherry/itch with the pork belly.  
You may lose your Texas ID card if you make the brisket sacrifice on that altar.  

I just happen to have a farm raised belly looking for a home right now.  It's not the part I like for bacon so this is a perfect use for it. Thanks for the idea.

YukonRon

I have read about this being done is several competition BBQ forums. The ones that choose not to do it, and say it is wrong, end up top 10, but never win. Many have done this and have won.
I use about 6-8 fist sized chunks of pecan.
I have done it to Costco prime and choice. I have also done the dirtiest deed of them all;
An SRF Black.
I prep it before the cook, after the rub, injecting a mixture of 50% low sodium beef broth, 25% garlic juice and 25% onion juice.
I will do it again right before the stall. And once more after the stall.
IF you using probes will see the IT drop, don't worry, the test remains the toothpick resistance. One you have zero resistance, regardless of the IT, pull let sit at least for 20 mins prior to going to wrap towel cooler.
I inject about 3-4 ounces each time. Some of the injection will squirt out of the brisket, so do not be alarmed. What ever is left after the 3 injections, makes a nice mop for the rest of the cook.
I have had folks tell me, those who have cooked and those who have judged, it is the best they have ever had.
I do recommend you start with a lower cost brisket, and if it fits your flavor profile. 

This is what I use, you can find these or the equivalent in the spice aisle at your larger grocery stores:

The Cen-Tex Smoker

I have read about this being done is several competition BBQ forums. The ones that choose not to do it, and say it is wrong, end up top 10, but never win. Many have done this and have won.

This is actually what I'm worried about the most. I am not looking to create competition style brisket. Aaron Franklin's BBQ team has never won anything. They never even place. It's a different style but I'm willing to try one. But I am NOT mopping...sacrilege 


I have another end game here so I am more curious how the protein isolates and phosphates work on water retention. This stuff has all kinds of flavors in it. Might should have bought the isolates and phosphates separately. 

YukonRon

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I have read about this being done is several competition BBQ forums. The ones that choose not to do it, and say it is wrong, end up top 10, but never win. Many have done this and have won.

This is actually what I'm worried about the most. I am not looking to create competition style brisket. Aaron Franklin's BBQ team has never won anything. They never even place. It's a different style but I'm willing to try one. But I am NOT mopping...sacrilege 


I have another end game here so I am more curious how the protein isolates and phosphates work on water retention. This stuff has all kinds of flavors in it. Might should have bought the isolates and phosphates separately. 

Good luck my friend. I hope this works out for you in the manner you seek.

Be glad to offer any help on my end, that you may think I am able to provide.

lousubcap

@The Cen-Tex Smoker - I'm sure all this isolates and phosphates talk has @YukonRon salivating.  If memory serves me right he messes about with chemical things in a non-Q life.  I would be careful of too much of an ionic reaction during the cook  

R2Egg2Q

I used to inject against the grain to avoid having the injection holes that are visible on slices when you inject with the grain.  I’ve injected in both directions before and honestly don’t recall any difference between them besides the injection holes.  

YukonRon

lousubcap said:

@The Cen-Tex Smoker - I'm sure all this isolates and phosphates talk has @YukonRon salivating.  If memory serves me right he messes about with chemical things in a non-Q life.  I would be careful of too much of an ionic reaction during the cook  

Phosphates have been added for years to trap moisture in meats, Turkey is a prime example.
Onions are an excellent source and besides flavor, every 100g of onion yields 29mg of phosphate. A great anti oxidant as well.
Garlic has a lot of phosphorous as well, which would also lend itself to holding some water as well as adding flavor.
Unfortunately, my focus in chemistry is environmentally related to remove NOx from our air and protection of the ground water, in relation to functional coatings of various designs. 
The work in food science humbles me more often than fascinates others with my culinary knowledge and skills.
Same with my chemistry achievements and professional career.

caliking

I’m curious to see what you think of the result. I don’t know if injecting would help a prime grade brisket be more moist. Maybe it would help with lower grade cuts?

and I don’t think there will be much difference between injecting with vs against the grain, given the needle being used. That thing will shred some meat no matter what the angle of approach is. 

xfire_ATX

@The Cen-Tex Smoker- Yesterday I was at Infamous in Hudson Bend and the Bloody Mary mix they had around for Micheladas they were saying they use it to inject briskets with.  I thought it was an interesting out of box thought.

caliking

caliking said:

I’m curious to see what you think of the result. I don’t know if injecting would help a prime grade brisket be more moist. Maybe it would help with lower grade cuts?

and I don’t think there will be much difference between injecting with vs against the grain, given the needle being used. That thing will shred some meat no matter what the angle of approach is. 

And I’m casting my vote for the nay side i.e you won’t like the injected brisky. 

YukonRon

caliking said:

caliking said:

I’m curious to see what you think of the result. I don’t know if injecting would help a prime grade brisket be more moist. Maybe it would help with lower grade cuts?

and I don’t think there will be much difference between injecting with vs against the grain, given the needle being used. That thing will shred some meat no matter what the angle of approach is. 

And I’m casting my vote for the nay side i.e you won’t like the injected brisky. 

Ye of little faith....at least I have the slushie thing to fall back on, 

UncleBilly

I typically inject low sodium beef broth with the grain.  I’ve kind of wanted to try the Butcher BBQ Injection, but haven’t ordered it yet.  I don’t think injecting has any detrimental effect, but I’m not convinced that the simple beef broth I’ve been using is a game changer.  

The real test would be to cook two same grade briskets at once, one injected and one not and have a friend or family member feed you slices in a blind taste test to see if you can tell a difference.  

I doubt that I could.  But I’m a guy whose palette is blunt enough to enjoy Taco Bell.  

Legume

xfire_ATX said:

@The Cen-Tex Smoker- Yesterday I was at Infamous in Hudson Bend and the Bloody Mary mix they had around for Micheladas they were saying they use it to inject briskets with.  I thought it was an interesting out of box thought.

Try this with tri-tip. Inject a bit, marinate.  Very good.

caliking

YukonRon said:

caliking said:

caliking said:

I’m curious to see what you think of the result. I don’t know if injecting would help a prime grade brisket be more moist. Maybe it would help with lower grade cuts?

and I don’t think there will be much difference between injecting with vs against the grain, given the needle being used. That thing will shred some meat no matter what the angle of approach is. 

And I’m casting my vote for the nay side i.e you won’t like the injected brisky. 

Ye of little faith....at least I have the slushie thing to fall back on, 

I tend to be a naysayer... but am happy to be proven wrong.  Usually means that I end up learning something .

In retrospect, kinda douchey of me to inject (ha!) negativity into the discussion. Too late to edit the post, but consider it retracted. Let the outcome speak for itself. 

YukonRon

caliking said:

YukonRon said:

caliking said:

caliking said:

I’m curious to see what you think of the result. I don’t know if injecting would help a prime grade brisket be more moist. Maybe it would help with lower grade cuts?

and I don’t think there will be much difference between injecting with vs against the grain, given the needle being used. That thing will shred some meat no matter what the angle of approach is. 

And I’m casting my vote for the nay side i.e you won’t like the injected brisky. 

Ye of little faith....at least I have the slushie thing to fall back on, 

I tend to be a naysayer... but am happy to be proven wrong.  Usually means that I end up learning something .

In retrospect, kinda douchey of me to inject (ha!) negativity into the discussion. Too late to edit the post, but consider it retracted. Let the outcome speak for itself. 

Nah, people do what they like. I tried it, and the only person I had to please was My Beautiful Wife. She is very particular about brisket (and so many other things) so when I read about this approach, I thought I would test it out for myself.

My good fortune in learning to cook brisket was from @lousubcap. Frank was kind enough to share his insight, and with practice, I have turned out some brisket cooks that were phenominal. Frank is the ayatollah of rock and roll when it comes to brisket skills (or any skills on the bge).

I made up my own solution to inject with, after looking at tons of recommended injections, and this simple mix is what I came up with for a few reasons:
Flavor is exceptional, My Beautiful Wife as well as others, have told me they have never tasted any beef that was any better. People want to take the leftovers with them, and ask me to cook a brisket for them. Their perception. These folks know brisket.
Tenderness is improved. You slice this and put it on a plate, it is fork tender. I slice it a bit more thick than most, and it is like warm butter to slice on the plate. I took it for granted, while several have been amazed how tender the brisket seems to be.
Moisture retention is significant. The brisket remains juicyfor the entire meal, and even the leftovers seem to remain juicy, even with a vigorous reheating, as I have frequently done in a lodge CI skillet. I will warm it up for burritos or tacos, and end up just eating it right out of the skillet. The burritos are a juicy mess, to enjoy, and my gosh, the flavor it puts into chili or vegetable beef soup is amazing.

With that being said, I will not go back to cooking a brisket without it, if I can.

I think you could easily make up another solution to your liking for injecting, but after trying some others and studying the effects, this ratio does what I need it to do.

Ashish, I love the comment, and don't worry, I did not take it as douchy. I respect your opinion, very much. I have learned much from your posts, and will continue to do so.

Like I said earlier, If it sucks, there is always a bourbon slushie to mask the pain of having to eat my crappy food.

I got you covered either way my friend.

DMW

I seriously cannot believe this is happening.

YukonRon

DMW said:

I seriously cannot believe this is happening.

Welcome to the Dark side....

DMW

YukonRon said:

DMW said:

I seriously cannot believe this is happening.

Welcome to the Dark side....

lakewade

Subscribed. This should be interesting.  

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Sorry to leave you hanging. something came up and we had to travel. Will have to redo this one another time. 

SGH

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

something came up and we had to travel. 

I hope that all is well brother Tex.