OT - What are you doing right now?

Ozzie_Isaac

Eoin said:

SamIAm2 said:

Eoin said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

fishlessman said:

now disposal of said heaters.  must be ten bucks there, i give it til friday night

In my old town, inspectors would drive around looking for discarded water heaters, then check for permits.  No permit, they would send a hefty fine.  Stupid Illinois.  Needed permits to change your own water heater.

I guess maybe less able people caused accidents messing with stuff beyond their capability and ended up costing the state money?

No, a pure, straight up county/city money grab. Helps balance the budget. Local gov here insists on a permit to replace like for like sized door, even if it was destroyed by a burglar while the resident was at work.

So a permit is not a competence thing, just to be allowed to make an alteration, whether personally or using a tradesperson? 

Correct.  Permit says you notified authorities of change and paid their fee.

Eoin

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Eoin said:

SamIAm2 said:

Eoin said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

fishlessman said:

now disposal of said heaters.  must be ten bucks there, i give it til friday night

In my old town, inspectors would drive around looking for discarded water heaters, then check for permits.  No permit, they would send a hefty fine.  Stupid Illinois.  Needed permits to change your own water heater.

I guess maybe less able people caused accidents messing with stuff beyond their capability and ended up costing the state money?

No, a pure, straight up county/city money grab. Helps balance the budget. Local gov here insists on a permit to replace like for like sized door, even if it was destroyed by a burglar while the resident was at work.

So a permit is not a competence thing, just to be allowed to make an alteration, whether personally or using a tradesperson? 

Correct.  Permit says you notified authorities of change and paid their fee.

That's worse than in socialist Europe.

ColbyLang

Permit also puts a dollar value on the project. Gives the city a baseline on how much money to add to your property tax assessment. I renovated my entire house sans permit. Didn’t get one when I added on my outdoor living space either. I’m 2 blocks from metro code office and 1 block from
city hall…..

fishlessman

Eoin said:

SamIAm2 said:

Eoin said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

fishlessman said:

now disposal of said heaters.  must be ten bucks there, i give it til friday night

In my old town, inspectors would drive around looking for discarded water heaters, then check for permits.  No permit, they would send a hefty fine.  Stupid Illinois.  Needed permits to change your own water heater.

I guess maybe less able people caused accidents messing with stuff beyond their capability and ended up costing the state money?

No, a pure, straight up county/city money grab. Helps balance the budget. Local gov here insists on a permit to replace like for like sized door, even if it was destroyed by a burglar while the resident was at work.

So a permit is not a competence thing, just to be allowed to make an alteration, whether personally or using a tradesperson? 

its a money grab from the town and the fines can be high but if you cant change a water heater, hire someone that can(most people should hire someone). each state is different as well. i put in a french cluny range a while back, illegal as hell, the french didnt pay the state to approve the stove in the state dont let the firemen see you working on your house, thats there cash job on the side and they will turn you into the town, was busted a few years back screwing tin siding on the back of the shop, only one that could see me was the firestation, shady bastards

fishlessman

water heaters gone this morning, a day faster than i would have thought

Kayak

@eoin, just to provide a little variation of opinion... permits also allow for review of plans and inspections of progress. There is no end to the incompetent DIY'ers in this country who would happily endanger themselves and their families to save a few hundred $. Building codes exist for a reason, and most have no idea where to find them or why to follow them. Not that the system is even close to perfect, but what is? I'm a DIYer, but I also get permits when necessary, even though our codes officers have generally been useless and preferred to shoot the breeze instead of look at anything.

JohnInCarolina

Kayak said:

@eoin, just to provide a little variation of opinion... permits also allow for review of plans and inspections of progress. There is no end to the incompetent DIY'ers in this country who would happily endanger themselves and their families to save a few hundred $. Building codes exist for a reason, and most have no idea where to find them or why to follow them. Not that the system is even close to perfect, but what is? I'm a DIYer, but I also get permits when necessary, even though our codes officers have generally been useless and preferred to shoot the breeze instead of look at anything.

Yep.  We have actually experienced this first-hand.

When we were in the process of buying our current home, our realtor discovered that the finished third floor had been completed without a permit.  It turned out that the owners had neglected some pretty basic safety considerations along the way.  They had to fix all of that to bring it all up to code, at a not insignificant cost.  

JohnInCarolina

Renewing my passport.   What a PITA.  

Ozzie_Isaac

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

@eoin, just to provide a little variation of opinion... permits also allow for review of plans and inspections of progress. There is no end to the incompetent DIY'ers in this country who would happily endanger themselves and their families to save a few hundred $. Building codes exist for a reason, and most have no idea where to find them or why to follow them. Not that the system is even close to perfect, but what is? I'm a DIYer, but I also get permits when necessary, even though our codes officers have generally been useless and preferred to shoot the breeze instead of look at anything.

Yep.  We have actually experienced this first-hand.

When we were in the process of buying our current home, our realtor discovered that the finished third floor had been completed without a permit.  It turned out that the owners had neglected some pretty basic safety considerations along the way.  They had to fix all of that to bring it all up to code, at a not insignificant cost.  

There are definitely times permits serve a purpose.  However, the case I mentioned did not rise to those standards.  There are no inspections, no provided safety codes, no anything.  You tell town you are changing water heater.  You pay your $109 permit fee.  Then you change your water heater.  My friend who went through this process said no inspection was ever performed.

In the particular town I am discussing, Pekin, all plumbing and all electrical needs a permit.  Swap a faucet?  Get a permit.  Replace an outlet? Get a permit.  Change a ceiling fan?  Get a permit.

alaskanassasin

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

@eoin, just to provide a little variation of opinion... permits also allow for review of plans and inspections of progress. There is no end to the incompetent DIY'ers in this country who would happily endanger themselves and their families to save a few hundred $. Building codes exist for a reason, and most have no idea where to find them or why to follow them. Not that the system is even close to perfect, but what is? I'm a DIYer, but I also get permits when necessary, even though our codes officers have generally been useless and preferred to shoot the breeze instead of look at anything.

Yep.  We have actually experienced this first-hand.

When we were in the process of buying our current home, our realtor discovered that the finished third floor had been completed without a permit.  It turned out that the owners had neglected some pretty basic safety considerations along the way.  They had to fix all of that to bring it all up to code, at a not insignificant cost.  

There are definitely times permits serve a purpose.  However, the case I mentioned did not rise to those standards.  There are no inspections, no provided safety codes, no anything.  You tell town you are changing water heater.  You pay your $109 permit fee.  Then you change your water heater.  My friend who went through this process said no inspection was ever performed.

In the particular town I am discussing, Pekin, all plumbing and all electrical needs a permit.  Swap a faucet?  Get a permit.  Replace an outlet? Get a permit.  Change a ceiling fan?  Get a permit.

If it’s worth doing it’s worth overdoing

Eoin

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

@eoin, just to provide a little variation of opinion... permits also allow for review of plans and inspections of progress. There is no end to the incompetent DIY'ers in this country who would happily endanger themselves and their families to save a few hundred $. Building codes exist for a reason, and most have no idea where to find them or why to follow them. Not that the system is even close to perfect, but what is? I'm a DIYer, but I also get permits when necessary, even though our codes officers have generally been useless and preferred to shoot the breeze instead of look at anything.

Yep.  We have actually experienced this first-hand.

When we were in the process of buying our current home, our realtor discovered that the finished third floor had been completed without a permit.  It turned out that the owners had neglected some pretty basic safety considerations along the way.  They had to fix all of that to bring it all up to code, at a not insignificant cost.  

There are definitely times permits serve a purpose.  However, the case I mentioned did not rise to those standards.  There are no inspections, no provided safety codes, no anything.  You tell town you are changing water heater.  You pay your $109 permit fee.  Then you change your water heater.  My friend who went through this process said no inspection was ever performed.

In the particular town I am discussing, Pekin, all plumbing and all electrical needs a permit.  Swap a faucet?  Get a permit.  Replace an outlet? Get a permit.  Change a ceiling fan?  Get a permit.

Our building regulations system doesn't cover most of that stuff, you can just get on and do it.

fishlessman

Eoin said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

@eoin, just to provide a little variation of opinion... permits also allow for review of plans and inspections of progress. There is no end to the incompetent DIY'ers in this country who would happily endanger themselves and their families to save a few hundred $. Building codes exist for a reason, and most have no idea where to find them or why to follow them. Not that the system is even close to perfect, but what is? I'm a DIYer, but I also get permits when necessary, even though our codes officers have generally been useless and preferred to shoot the breeze instead of look at anything.

Yep.  We have actually experienced this first-hand.

When we were in the process of buying our current home, our realtor discovered that the finished third floor had been completed without a permit.  It turned out that the owners had neglected some pretty basic safety considerations along the way.  They had to fix all of that to bring it all up to code, at a not insignificant cost.  

There are definitely times permits serve a purpose.  However, the case I mentioned did not rise to those standards.  There are no inspections, no provided safety codes, no anything.  You tell town you are changing water heater.  You pay your $109 permit fee.  Then you change your water heater.  My friend who went through this process said no inspection was ever performed.

In the particular town I am discussing, Pekin, all plumbing and all electrical needs a permit.  Swap a faucet?  Get a permit.  Replace an outlet? Get a permit.  Change a ceiling fan?  Get a permit.

Our building regulations system doesn't cover most of that stuff, you can just get on and do it.

its different here, each state has there own codes. massachusetts you need a permit to change out the toilet and a licensed plumber to do the hose connection. new hampshire you do what you want pretty much accept for new construction, additions etc. maine you buy your neighbors some beers and do the job at night.  heard a neighbor screaming once, broke the toilet valve on the second floor and it was running down the front stairs he needed a licensed plumber, wife was not too happy

fishlessman

and only in the woods of maine.....

guys wife is at the hospital giving birth, husband at home gets out the tractor and pushes the shed up against the house, nails it on. gets out the chainsaw and cuts out a doorway thru the shed and into the house. surprises wife with a new bedroom

Kayak

Eoin said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

@eoin, just to provide a little variation of opinion... permits also allow for review of plans and inspections of progress. There is no end to the incompetent DIY'ers in this country who would happily endanger themselves and their families to save a few hundred $. Building codes exist for a reason, and most have no idea where to find them or why to follow them. Not that the system is even close to perfect, but what is? I'm a DIYer, but I also get permits when necessary, even though our codes officers have generally been useless and preferred to shoot the breeze instead of look at anything.

Yep.  We have actually experienced this first-hand.

When we were in the process of buying our current home, our realtor discovered that the finished third floor had been completed without a permit.  It turned out that the owners had neglected some pretty basic safety considerations along the way.  They had to fix all of that to bring it all up to code, at a not insignificant cost.  

There are definitely times permits serve a purpose.  However, the case I mentioned did not rise to those standards.  There are no inspections, no provided safety codes, no anything.  You tell town you are changing water heater.  You pay your $109 permit fee.  Then you change your water heater.  My friend who went through this process said no inspection was ever performed.

In the particular town I am discussing, Pekin, all plumbing and all electrical needs a permit.  Swap a faucet?  Get a permit.  Replace an outlet? Get a permit.  Change a ceiling fan?  Get a permit.

Our building regulations system doesn't cover most of that stuff, you can just get on and do it.

Really?

Manual to the Building Regulations

nolaegghead

Kayak said:

Eoin said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

@eoin, just to provide a little variation of opinion... permits also allow for review of plans and inspections of progress. There is no end to the incompetent DIY'ers in this country who would happily endanger themselves and their families to save a few hundred $. Building codes exist for a reason, and most have no idea where to find them or why to follow them. Not that the system is even close to perfect, but what is? I'm a DIYer, but I also get permits when necessary, even though our codes officers have generally been useless and preferred to shoot the breeze instead of look at anything.

Yep.  We have actually experienced this first-hand.

When we were in the process of buying our current home, our realtor discovered that the finished third floor had been completed without a permit.  It turned out that the owners had neglected some pretty basic safety considerations along the way.  They had to fix all of that to bring it all up to code, at a not insignificant cost.  

There are definitely times permits serve a purpose.  However, the case I mentioned did not rise to those standards.  There are no inspections, no provided safety codes, no anything.  You tell town you are changing water heater.  You pay your $109 permit fee.  Then you change your water heater.  My friend who went through this process said no inspection was ever performed.

In the particular town I am discussing, Pekin, all plumbing and all electrical needs a permit.  Swap a faucet?  Get a permit.  Replace an outlet? Get a permit.  Change a ceiling fan?  Get a permit.

Our building regulations system doesn't cover most of that stuff, you can just get on and do it.

Really?

Manual to the Building Regulations

I think you just proved his point. From that document:

When you do one of the following, Building Regulations are likely to apply:

a. put up a new building

b. change or make bigger a building that is already built

c. change the use of a building that is already built ord. alter the building services if they are either what is legally called:

i. a ‘controlled service’ orii. a ‘controlled fitting’ (these terms are explained in Appendix I)

Appendix I where controlled service:

30 Further guidance Manual to the Building RegulationsVolume 2
A18 Some requirements for controlled services or fittings only apply when dwellings are initially erected, and the fitting or service may not continue to be controlled after the dwelling has been completed. As long as any subsequent changes to the controlled service or fitting do not make it less compliant with Building Regulations than it was before the building work took place, the change does not have to comply with the Building Regulations.

Eoin

Kayak said:

Eoin said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

@eoin, just to provide a little variation of opinion... permits also allow for review of plans and inspections of progress. There is no end to the incompetent DIY'ers in this country who would happily endanger themselves and their families to save a few hundred $. Building codes exist for a reason, and most have no idea where to find them or why to follow them. Not that the system is even close to perfect, but what is? I'm a DIYer, but I also get permits when necessary, even though our codes officers have generally been useless and preferred to shoot the breeze instead of look at anything.

Yep.  We have actually experienced this first-hand.

When we were in the process of buying our current home, our realtor discovered that the finished third floor had been completed without a permit.  It turned out that the owners had neglected some pretty basic safety considerations along the way.  They had to fix all of that to bring it all up to code, at a not insignificant cost.  

There are definitely times permits serve a purpose.  However, the case I mentioned did not rise to those standards.  There are no inspections, no provided safety codes, no anything.  You tell town you are changing water heater.  You pay your $109 permit fee.  Then you change your water heater.  My friend who went through this process said no inspection was ever performed.

In the particular town I am discussing, Pekin, all plumbing and all electrical needs a permit.  Swap a faucet?  Get a permit.  Replace an outlet? Get a permit.  Change a ceiling fan?  Get a permit.

Our building regulations system doesn't cover most of that stuff, you can just get on and do it.

Really?

Manual to the Building Regulations

Where regulations do apply, the work mostly doesn't need a permit or inspection. So, I can change wiring and should theoretically get a certificate that the install complies from the electrician, but no notification or permit is needed. 

BigreenGreg

Enjoying Boz Scaggs live. Most enjoyable show I’ve ever been to, the entire venue was on their feet dancing.

GrateEggspectations

Wow. Some of y’all across the pond are just savage. 

Ozzie_Isaac

Watching LAD vs. Giants .... Rooting for LAD.  It is a nailbiter.

CPFC1905

JohnInCarolina said:

Renewing my passport.   What a PITA.  

How exciting - are you coming to Blighty?   We have rain, warm beer and misery around every corner. 

JohnInCarolina

CPFC1905 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Renewing my passport.   What a PITA.  

How exciting - are you coming to Blighty?   We have rain, warm beer and misery around every corner. 

Do you still have mushy peas?  Because that’s a pretty big draw, I have to say.

ColbyLang

Packing. Headed to the beach for 6 days. Not leaving till tomorrow tho…..one more day in the trenches

JohnInCarolina

ColbyLang said:

Packing. Headed to the beach for 6 days. Not leaving till tomorrow tho…..one more day in the trenches

Nice.  Which beach?

ColbyLang

Orange Beach. Golf Sunday and Tuesday. Beach life till the Friday. Kids have Fall Break. They’ll literally only miss 2 days of school 

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/IFLScience/status/1448984572339830787?s=20

Paging @SGH

GrateEggspectations

JohnInCarolina said:

http://twitter.com/IFLScience/status/1448984572339830787?s=20

Paging @SGH

Now I’m a pretty adventurous sort of guy, but this is one recipe I won’t be trying. 

Though I guess the plating and presentation at the neighbourhood barbecue would be the talk of the town. 

Legume

I think this is why they package eggs by the dozen.  15 is just too many.

ColtsFan

Legume said:

I think this is why they package eggs by the dozen.  15 is just too many.

He really wanted to hit that PR.

JohnInCarolina

ColtsFan said:

Legume said:

I think this is why they package eggs by the dozen.  15 is just too many.

He really wanted to hit that PR.

Dude busted through his intestine as a result.  

Sometimes I feel like doctors should be given a certain number of "Darwin audibles" where, based on the level of apparent stupidity that brought the patient to them, they can decide not to provide treatment.  A kind of "humanity is not better served by you possibly reproducing, so we're just going to let you die in the OR" type deal.  Wouldn't we all be better off?

CPFC1905

JohnInCarolina said:

CPFC1905 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Renewing my passport.   What a PITA.  

How exciting - are you coming to Blighty?   We have rain, warm beer and misery around every corner. 

Do you still have mushy peas?  Because that’s a pretty big draw, I have to say.

You'll have to venture the North for that. We are luxuriant with effective teeth down here in the South and don't need the hard work done for us.