Pork injection and rub advice

markem

I plan to put my first pork butt on the LBGE this weekend to make pulled pork.  My friend has a Backwoods Chubby and I plan to use a method similar to what he uses with the Chubby.

My plan is to inject and rub the pork.  My friend puts his pork butt on a tray to held the juices against the meat, but I don't know if that is advisable with the egg. 

The injection I plan to use is this one from Chris Lilly

Chris Lilly's Pork Injection

3/4 cup apple juice

1/2 cup water

1/2 cup sugar

1/4 cup salt

2 tablespoons Worcestershire 

I haven't decided on a rub yet, so thought I'd check here first.  Also, I've never turbo'd before and don't know if it would be a good way to go with this or if I should do low and slow (my usual way with other smokers).

ADVthanksANCE

Brisket_Fanatic

I have used Chris's rub and injection numerous times and really like it. I am a believer in low and slow all the way

SGH

I find Chris's injection to be a good one. However I do cut the sugar in half as im not a huge fan of sweet pork. Just a matter of taste. As far as rubs for pork I find it hard to beat bad byrons butt rub unless you make your own and tweek the the spices for a particular out come. Again its a personal choice and a matter of what profile you are trying to achieve. As always I hope this helps my friend.

SGH

Just wanted to ask how do you like your friends BW chubby? Interesting fact about the chubby. It has won more first place events in poultry than any other cooker. At one time it was the go to cooker in the poultry event even for us fellows running the large off sets. For poultry the little chubby is fantastic and even the large custom builds cannot out do it. One more note worth mention is that BW was the first to sell a reverse flow cabinet to the general public. There original reverse flow design has remained unchanged for over 20 years and is far and away the most copied by custom builders and amateurs alike. BW got it right before they marketed there product. When I saw your post and the mention of the BW it really brought back some very fond memories for me from a bye gone part of my life. Sorry for rambling and good luck my friend.

SmokeyPitt

That is a solid injection and if you have had it before and like the results I would go for it.  Lots of great commercial rubs out there...just another thought is to google "renouned mr brown" and try that rub recipe.  

I think cooking in a pan would be fine but you will sacrifice some of the bark when you do this if the butt is sitting in juices.  

Lots of people like the turbo method.  When I tried it I felt like I didn't get as much smoke flavor.  Now if I want to get it done in one day I compromise and start out low n slow (about 250 dome) for at least a few hours, then bump up temp.  If I need to rush it I will wrap in foil at 180 which speeds up the cooking.  

markem

Thank you @SGH and @SmokeyPitt.  I will try out the Southern Succor Rub with the butt this week.

As for the Chubby, my friend loves it.  He smokes a lot of salmon and cheese and finds holding 70* very easy.  He admits that his brisket is not as good as the one last weekend off the LBGE, tho!

I think that I will try not in the pan this time, as I'd like some good bark mixed in to the rest.  I'll go for 225 dome for as long as it takes.  I'm old and old fashioned.

markem

Okay, I've put the rub on the 9.8 lbs of pork butt and have it in the fridge.  I'll start smoking early tomorrow morning.

The one question that I do still have is this: how long before I put the meat on the smoker should I do the injection?  Seems to me that there is a balance between penetration of the injection through the meat and leakage of the injection all over the counter.  I may not be the one who insists on asking this question.  

Hotch

@markem, Here is a trick I picked up from @Lousubcap:

A little trick for those who inject indoors-wrap the target meat in a saran wrap before injecting.  Then inject through the wrap-keeps the stray shots contained and makes clean-up much easier.

Hotch

Opps, sorry bout the yellow text. Did a search to find it.

lousubcap

For the record-that injection tip is not original..can't recall where I first read it but it does work.  

fishlessman

i started doing the injection during the stall period of around 160 in the egg during the low and slow, it avoids the mess and the pork takes more of it while its hot, also have done low and slow turkeys the same way. havent tried that injection recipe but have used a carolina vinegar sauce to inject while cooking, its more similar to the taste of a whole hog cook where they inject during the cook

Eggcelsior

fishlessman said:

i started doing the injection during the stall period of around 160 in the egg during the low and slow, it avoids the mess and the pork takes more of it while its hot, also have done low and slow turkeys the same way. havent tried that injection recipe but have used a carolina vinegar sauce to inject while cooking, its more similar to the taste of a whole hog cook where they inject during the cook

I wonder if absorption is better since the pork has lost a lot of water already at that point.

SGH

@markem‌
As far as injecting most people inject the night before or right before it goes in the smoker. Either is fine as it is just personal preference. However I would recommend listening to @fishlessman‌ and using at hot or late injection if you will. In not sure if he is the one to come up with the late injection or not but he is the first I ever saw write about it. I tried it after seeing his original writing some time back on another forum and I have continued using this method. As he pointed out 160 seems to be ideal temp for a late injection. Good luck. And @fishlessman thanks for sharing the late injection tip.

SenecaTheYounger

If wrapping it in Saran Wrap means a bit more mess than you may want (and it usually does, just put it in a large zip top bag and remove the air. There are bags of many sizes, including large enough to do whole hams.

nolaegghead

Any liquid you squirt in the meat isn't going to get absorbed by muscle cells, it will be free liquid trying to find the path of least resistance until it stays in one place (including even a drip pan).  That's not to say it isn't a good way to add flavor to the meat, or give it more moisture to evaporate off through a brutal stall, but it's more like putting gravy inside the meat than making the meat plumper and more like it wasn't cooked to such a high temperature.

edit - that is unless the meat was grossly dried and is dehydrated, like a jerky.

fishlessman

SGH said:

@markem‌ As far as injecting most people inject the night before or right before it goes in the smoker. Either is fine as it is just personal preference. However I would recommend listening to @fishlessman‌ and using at hot or late injection if you will. In not sure if he is the one to come up with the late injection or not but he is the first I ever saw write about it. I tried it after seeing his original writing some time back on another forum and I have continued using this method. As he pointed out 160 seems to be ideal temp for a late injection. Good luck. And @fishlessman thanks for sharing the late injection tip.

the other thing about doing it later in the cook is that you can add whatever rub you put on it to the injection. the rub loses alot of flavor during the long cook and adding some to that injection late in the cook seems to give some life back to it, perks it back up again

SenecaTheYounger

@nolaegghead

I agree.  It isn't like a brine or cure at all. 

If someone is so inclined to inject though, wrapping in saran wrap is a fool's errand. 

But for curing, injecting along the bone and using a zip top bag works well.  The cure injected near the bone will be absorbed due to the high salinity.  Whereas a flavor injection just basically sits there.

SGH

@fishlessman‌
Sir if you don't mind me asking did you start injecting late on your own or did you pick that up some where? I always give credit where credit is due and you were certainly the first I ever heard speak of it. And I have been around the cooking circuit a very long time. Some of the current big guns are now injecting late.

markem

@fishlessman‌ about the late injection and also about using some of the rub.  I didn't think about the injection really not having anything in it to break down tissue, but that's a great point @nolaegghead  and @SenecaTheYounger

nolaegghead

SenecaTheYounger said:

@nolaegghead

I agree.  It isn't like a brine or cure at all. 

If someone is so inclined to inject though, wrapping in saran wrap is a fool's errand. 

But for curing, injecting along the bone and using a zip top bag works well.  The cure injected near the bone will be absorbed due to the high salinity.  Whereas a flavor injection just basically sits there.

Agreed.

Processing plants frequently inject wet cure.  Also cure can be introduced by pumping through  arteries, like embalming.  In a way, that's what it is.

SGH

@markem‌
Sir the only purpose of the injection is to add a extra flavor profile and add extra moisture into the mass of the meat being cooked so it doesn't dry out as bad. I'm no scientist nor am I well educated but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that injections work and they work very well. Watch most of the current champs and you will see what I'm talking about. If you want to see the difference for yourself cook two identical shoulders and inject one but not the other and cook them to the same internal temp and judge for yourself which is the more moist. I can save you the time and suspense and tell you that it will be the injected one every time. Always do what you like and what works best for you. When it comes to cooking science and voodoo just don't figure into it . Inject that meat young man and enjoy.

SenecaTheYounger

Injecting raw meat doesn't cause the liquid to disperse evenly throughout the meat.  Of course there is liquid in the meat, but it is not magically absorbed.

When you cook something to pulling temps, the moisture DOES have a place to go, which is why fisherman has success injecting later in the cook.  The fibers of the meat are not tightly bound together with collagen any longer.

But if you inject turkey breast, and cook to normal temperatures (150 +/-), the liquid you inject is basically free running, not absorbed like a brine would be.

Eggcelsior

SenecaTheYounger said:

Injecting raw meat doesn't cause the liquid to disperse evenly throughout the meat.  Of course there is liquid in the meat, but it is not magically absorbed.

When you cook something to pulling temps, the moisture DOES have a place to go, which is why fisherman has success injecting later in the cook.  The fibers of the meat are not tightly bound together with collagen any longer.

But if you inject turkey breast, and cook to normal temperatures (150 +/-), the liquid you inject is basically free running, not absorbed like a brine would be.

This is exactly what I was trying to say. Absorption was a poor word choice.

fishlessman

SGH said:

@fishlessman‌ Sir if you don't mind me asking did you start injecting late on your own or did you pick that up some where? I always give credit where credit is due and you were certainly the first I ever heard speak of it. And I have been around the cooking circuit a very long time. Some of the current big guns are now injecting late.

i had seen it done with whole hog cooks so just figured why not with a shoulder. it solved alot of problems with prep and flavor loss. with prep im lazy, everything goes on just before the cook and my first experience injecting a ham was a total mess
)so this was a no brainer for me, much easier, more flavor, no mess. after i started doing it i remember thirdeye started experimenting with late injecting briskets so im sure it spread after that but i doubt i was first, hard to be first at any type of cook

SGH

@fishlessman‌
No doubt brother. It certainly is hard to be first at anything in cooking as people have been doing it since the beginning of time. But on a side note I was just pointing out that you were the first I heard speak of it and use it. Some where along the way thru no fault of his own Thirdeye kind of got credit for it when in fact I heard it from you first. I would also like to say that it has become my go to method of injection except on poultry which I still inject cold. Where ever you got it from thanks for sharing it my friend.

JohnInCarolina

Love the late injection idea! I learn something new every time I'm on this forum - good stuff!

SGH

@JohnInCarolina‌
If you like to inject you will love this method. For one you are not dealing with the mess in your sink or on your counter. Next it just seems to work better to me and to other people that I know who use this method. Give it a try and see what you think my friend.

Catmandiesel

I just pulled a Butt off the Egg with this rub. I been using the rub for years. Really awesome taste. Also I never have injected a Boston Butt just smoked for 6 r so hours then wrapped till internal is 205. Awesome results!!