Wondering the thread sunk trigger-perhaps just a move to OT??

alaskanassasin

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

So sub par service is just now acceptable? No thanks. Anything that has to be there on time is FedEx or UPS. Bills are paid online

Nobody is saying that.

But it is. It’s the new norm. The excuses are just piling up. The federal government should get a valuation of the USPS and sell it. Let someone who can run it, buy it and show the government how to do it properly. Doesn’t have to operate at shark tank valuations to prove worth….just be profitable. 

Issue’s always arise in paying for retirement plans/benefits for those 1000’s of employees who have retired. It’s bankrupted 100’s of companies.

I think this notion that the private sector can always run things better is pretty misguided. The private sector is driven first and foremost by the ability to turn a profit.  That’s the incentive.  The public good is a tertiary consideration, if at all.

There are some services that really do make sense for the government to provide to the public, at a base level.  I’m not sure that mail has to be one but it seems like a fairly basic service that’s solidly in the government wheelhouse.  I’m fairly certain that’s the case at most Western countries.

I’m not saying the USPS is perfect.  Far from it.  I just don’t see selling it off as being the appropriate thing to do.  It probably should just be subsidized or something as it ramps down and transitions away from a time where so much business was conducted via mail to where we are now, where much has been replaced by online services.

It’s like every other business in this world……gotta pivot or become dead in the water. How many restaurants folded during Covid cus of no take out/delivery service? The good ones pivoted. Menus adapted. They hit the grind to survive. USPS has not gotten better, only worse.

Yeah I just don’t equate government services with private business.  We don’t have private fire departments and whatnot for a good reason.

Why don't we have private fire departments? 

You’d prefer a private one that only puts out the fires for paying customers and will only use as much water as you’ve paid for in advance?  

I mean, screw the kids screaming out the windows of the house on fire down the street, Mommy and Daddy should’ve paid the $1000 a month Frank’s Fire Guys charges?  Let them burn, amirite?

We have private fire departments here.  If you are not subscribed and they have to come put your fire out or provide a service, then you get charged.

How does it work? When you call 911 they are sent out? 

TechsasJim

This thread lately.  

ColbyLang

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

FWIW, private EMS works beautifully here. Company is ESOP and constantly growing 

Funny how people having heart attacks in America is a growth industry.  

And yet USPS sucking the Bezos tit on Amazon can’t save a sinking boat 

Well it’s not like they have a monopoly on delivery.

Those vans exist because Bezos knows he can do it better than USPS. 

So is the USPS “sucking the Bezos tit on Amazon”  or does Bezos know he can do it better and is mostly relying on his own delivery vans?    Because it seems like those two positions are somewhat contradictory.  

He didn’t start with his own delivery vans. They (USPS) forced his hand with poor performance on 2 day guaranteed Prime delivery. Like anything else, they bid for his business. Lord knows he does enough to keep them paid…

Ozzie_Isaac

alaskanassasin said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

So sub par service is just now acceptable? No thanks. Anything that has to be there on time is FedEx or UPS. Bills are paid online

Nobody is saying that.

But it is. It’s the new norm. The excuses are just piling up. The federal government should get a valuation of the USPS and sell it. Let someone who can run it, buy it and show the government how to do it properly. Doesn’t have to operate at shark tank valuations to prove worth….just be profitable. 

Issue’s always arise in paying for retirement plans/benefits for those 1000’s of employees who have retired. It’s bankrupted 100’s of companies.

I think this notion that the private sector can always run things better is pretty misguided. The private sector is driven first and foremost by the ability to turn a profit.  That’s the incentive.  The public good is a tertiary consideration, if at all.

There are some services that really do make sense for the government to provide to the public, at a base level.  I’m not sure that mail has to be one but it seems like a fairly basic service that’s solidly in the government wheelhouse.  I’m fairly certain that’s the case at most Western countries.

I’m not saying the USPS is perfect.  Far from it.  I just don’t see selling it off as being the appropriate thing to do.  It probably should just be subsidized or something as it ramps down and transitions away from a time where so much business was conducted via mail to where we are now, where much has been replaced by online services.

It’s like every other business in this world……gotta pivot or become dead in the water. How many restaurants folded during Covid cus of no take out/delivery service? The good ones pivoted. Menus adapted. They hit the grind to survive. USPS has not gotten better, only worse.

Yeah I just don’t equate government services with private business.  We don’t have private fire departments and whatnot for a good reason.

Why don't we have private fire departments? 

You’d prefer a private one that only puts out the fires for paying customers and will only use as much water as you’ve paid for in advance?  

I mean, screw the kids screaming out the windows of the house on fire down the street, Mommy and Daddy should’ve paid the $1000 a month Frank’s Fire Guys charges?  Let them burn, amirite?

We have private fire departments here.  If you are not subscribed and they have to come put your fire out or provide a service, then you get charged.

How does it work? When you call 911 they are sent out? 

Yes, 911 dispatches the fire and medical teams (usually private also)  The private companies have contracts with the cities and bill them for their services.

Residents also have to pay the Fire Department a subscription fee if they want them to respond and guarantee they will fight the fire.  It is customary that they fight a fire even for a non-subscriber, but then they send you a hefty bill for their services.

In our neck of the woods, homeowners insurance usually requires you to subscribe.  One private company insuring the other also gets customers.

Botch

Whew.  Cap'n, you sure stirred the pot here.
I've tried to do more lurking anymore as I get complaints about my writing style and missing a single post, but there's a couple points here that no one's mentioned, so I will.
 
1.  USPS IS a federal government service; it is unique in that it is partially funded by its services (selling postage, etc).  But not totally funded.  
2.  The US Congress has continually reduced direct funding, and increased billing, to the USPS for their operations.  Google "USPS unfunded mandates".
3.  USPS does NOT work on Sundays.  They do, however, rent their trucks to third-party delivery services on Sundays to help fund their expenses (see #2 above).
3a.  Your house is on fire.  The fire trucks (which you paid your taxes for) are too late, because they were giving paid rides to schoolkids to make enough money for their operations (see #2 and 3 above).  And the police were giving joyrides to patrons instead of quelling a mass robbing event at your local mall.  And the USAF was giving joyrides to bezosebub's friends (wid da cash) when we had incoming missiles.  You really want all that privatized?  
3b.  I have the link but it'd take some digging (I'm retired) of a study that showed, were mail services privatized, there are areas in WY and on Reservations that would be forced to pay $15.50, to mail a single postcard. deJoy is drooling at the chin to have that happen, do you want it?    
3c.  We have an almost fully-privatized health care system.  We pay more for health care than any other 1st-world nation on the planet, by a huge margin.  For 26 years I was in that slim portion of the US that had my HC fully paid by the feds; I never had to worry about a thing.  (the stark difference between DoD health care, and VA health care, is a whole separate discussion).  
3d.  We still have privatized choices for internet service.  Yet, ANY of those services cost us more than that charged in Germany, Japan, Korea, Congo, Cuba, etc-etc-etc).  Is that what you want?    
 
I have a lot more to add, but I'm sleepy, and also don't expect to see this thread tomorrow.  Thanks for listening.  

HeavyG

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

FWIW, private EMS works beautifully here. Company is ESOP and constantly growing 

Funny how people having heart attacks in America is a growth industry.  

And yet USPS sucking the Bezos tit on Amazon can’t save a sinking boat 

Well it’s not like they have a monopoly on delivery.

 I see 4 different amazon vans on the same street yet they some how make a profit.

Amazon makes the vast majority of its profits (80% ? ) from AWS - Amazon Web Services and not from their retail operations and "their" shiny fleet of vans.

Amazon decided to start their own delivery service to save money - that's a lot easier if you just contract it out to independent contractors who aren't actually Amazon employees.

Acn

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

So sub par service is just now acceptable? No thanks. Anything that has to be there on time is FedEx or UPS. Bills are paid online

Nobody is saying that.

But it is. It’s the new norm. The excuses are just piling up. The federal government should get a valuation of the USPS and sell it. Let someone who can run it, buy it and show the government how to do it properly. Doesn’t have to operate at shark tank valuations to prove worth….just be profitable. 

Issue’s always arise in paying for retirement plans/benefits for those 1000’s of employees who have retired. It’s bankrupted 100’s of companies.

I think this notion that the private sector can always run things better is pretty misguided. The private sector is driven first and foremost by the ability to turn a profit.  That’s the incentive.  The public good is a tertiary consideration, if at all.

There are some services that really do make sense for the government to provide to the public, at a base level.  I’m not sure that mail has to be one but it seems like a fairly basic service that’s solidly in the government wheelhouse.  I’m fairly certain that’s the case at most Western countries.

I’m not saying the USPS is perfect.  Far from it.  I just don’t see selling it off as being the appropriate thing to do.  It probably should just be subsidized or something as it ramps down and transitions away from a time where so much business was conducted via mail to where we are now, where much has been replaced by online services.

It’s like every other business in this world……gotta pivot or become dead in the water. How many restaurants folded during Covid cus of no take out/delivery service? The good ones pivoted. Menus adapted. They hit the grind to survive. USPS has not gotten better, only worse.

Yeah I just don’t equate government services with private business.  We don’t have private fire departments and whatnot for a good reason.

Why don't we have private fire departments? 

You’d prefer a private one that only puts out the fires for paying customers and will only use as much water as you’ve paid for in advance?  

I mean, screw the kids screaming out the windows of the house on fire down the street, Mommy and Daddy should’ve paid the $1000 a month Frank’s Fire Guys charges?  Let them burn, amirite?

We have private fire departments here.  If you are not subscribed and they have to come put your fire out or provide a service, then you get charged.

If you don't pay do they come back out and relight your house on fire?

Acn

HeavyG said:

I know it's fashionable amongst some to always slam the USPS but, historically, I've had far more screwups with FedXXX (tho to be fair I haven't had any major problems the last few years) than the US Post Office. Given the vast volume of stuff the USPS delivers daily I'm impressed by how well most things go.

It's also important to remember that the USPS is REQUIRED BY LAW to deliver EVERYWHERE. And FedXXX and UPS are grateful for that as they frequently rely on the USPS to make "last mile" deliveries for them.

+1 to both of these.

I have almost completely abandoned FedEx.  If given a choice of shippers I will always select UPS or USPS.  Last 2 shipments from FedEx were some computer equipment from my office and a piece of art we bought in London.  The shipment from my office (approximately 3.5 miles away as the crow flies; 5 miles on the easiest drive) was 2 boxes; they ended up on 2 different trucks and were delivered about 6 hours apart.  The shipment from London was delivered 3 days late and for 3 days FedEx recorded “Unable to deliver” which I was told meant that either the driver was unable to get to my address or that nobody was home.  The problem with that, of course, is that there is no reason a truck couldn't access the house and both my wife and I work full time from home and generally only leave to drop or pick up our daughter at school.  My wife's desk is in a bay window that looks out to the driveway/front yard/street, and both of us would be able to hear the doorbell (and the chihuahua who loses her mind when somebody rings the doorbell), and we know that they never tried.

I also know that anything shipped to either my parents or grandmother in Maine is only going to be delivered by USPS.  Amazon deliveries will come USPS and FedEx and UPS would only deliver to the local post office, with final delivery coming in the daily mail.

Legume

FedEx is broken for some reason.  Hopefully they figure it out, but when a vendor sends something FedEx, it's almost always late to me based on the initial projection.

Shippers using USPS for the last mile doesn't bother me, but the notification/projection for delivery is almost always for them dropping at USPS and then you have to add a couple of days.  They should integrate or at least be transparent about it and build that into estimated delivery dates.  I've had a lot of packages scheduled for delivery on a Thursday only to find that it's really going to be a Saturday and I'm going to be out of town.  My neighbors love grabbing packages for me from my porch.

lousubcap

Interesting in that of late I have shipped three packages by USPS and every one arrived a day earlier that the projected date at time of mailing.  Recipients were pleased.  

fishlessman

.

fedex and prime drop stuff infront of my business at night when the building is locked up, makes no sense and im surprised stuff hasnt been stolen. atleast with usps and ups the deliveries are scheduled same time m-f and they dont drop off on a friday night or weekend infront of a closed business

TechsasJim

That is the weird deal, I have never had one issue with FedEx or UPS but I have weekly issues with USPS.   Oh well, sounds like none of us have perfect situations.

Oh and the USPS shipment that was said to be delivered 2 days ago is still "moving through the network".    Last known place still Roanoke, VA.   

ColbyLang

Every FedEx driver is an independent contractor. The truck may say FE, but it’s leased. As long as it gets there on the right day, they don’t care what time. 

Ozzie_Isaac

UPS and Fedex like to drive by my gate, say undeliverable, then come back a few days later and actually deliver.  My office looks out over the gate and I watch them drive past, turn around, and leave.  About 5min later I get an email saying "undeliverable".  Unless it is a multi-thousand dollar item with the box clearly labeled with brands.  Then they just leave it outside the gate.

I try to make sure my gate is open if I have an important delivery is inbound.  The USPS knows there is a path to my front door and he always drops off the packages.

lousubcap

@TechsasJim - at least it has a pulse in the system.  Good luck.

nolaegghead

Myopic thinking:  when you project your localized experiences on national and global entities.  Having contemporaneous observations are great but if you really want the macro view, it’s not necessarily the same.  Keep that in mind before applying USPS, FedEx, etc suck or blow away sliced bread.  Just a friendly PSA

fishlessman

my only complaint with usps is that being the last box on the street i get everyones mail that he missed. then im delivering it. started to leave a pencil in the mailbox and write wrong address on the mail and put the flag up. worked for a few weeks til he stole the pencil and went back to his old ways.

Ozzie_Isaac

nolaegghead said:

Myopic thinking:  when you project your localized experiences on national and global entities.  Having contemporaneous observations are great but if you really want the macro view, it’s not necessarily the same.  Keep that in mind before applying USPS, FedEx, etc suck or blow away sliced bread.  Just a friendly PSA

Localized observations, lead to a discussion, which then identifies contemporaneous observations across a larger geographic area, and that leads to a hypothesis that can be used to apply for funding or grants and a wider more comprehensive study can be performed.  The results of which may lead to a congressional investigation.  Then one side will say the other side is using politics as a weapon and nothing will change.

lousubcap

@fishlessman - I am the reverse sear of your usps experience.  On a random basis our mail ends up in the neighbour (nod) on the next block over (their lot backs up to my street) as they have the same house number.  New owners and the surrogate mail delivery responsibilities did not transfer.  Hopefully fixed now.
However this issue did not arise for the first 17 years we lived here.  Now it is random and the driver/delivery training program has some weaknesses.  
Filing the occasional on-line complaint does generate immediate response.  FWIW-

Legume

**** happens.  I'm less worried about things being a little late than the lack of transparency.  If I'm not going to be here, I can plan for that.  

nolaegghead

You can sign up with USPS and see images of all the mail slated to go to your address, FWIW

dbCooper

Trivia for those that may not know: Here in deeply conservative Nebraska we have 100% public power.  The metrics for reliability and rates indicate it works well for customers.  Privatization interests make noise occasionally to change this system, curiously they never get any traction. 

fishlessman

lousubcap said:

@fishlessman - I am the reverse sear of your usps experience.  On a random basis our mail ends up in the neighbour (nod) on the next block over (their lot backs up to my street) as they have the same house number.  New owners and the surrogate mail delivery responsibilities did not transfer.  Hopefully fixed now.
However this issue did not arise for the first 17 years we lived here.  Now it is random and the driver/delivery training program has some weaknesses.  
Filing the occasional on-line complaint does generate immediate response.  FWIW-

my house in the city is on a lake, the typical lot width is 50 feet. easier to just pass it out with the dog running around.  the mailman in maine has not found my mailbox yet but i dont want any mail delivered there, i dont even check it more than once a month.  usps isnt like it once was, the post office sets the heat on cold, many times im in there the lights are off with one worker at the counter

Legume

nolaegghead said:

You can sign up with USPS and see images of all the mail slated to go to your address, FWIW

We have this, it's great, but the local USPS are so shorthanded we have days without delivery and days with delivery at 7pm. I may see it 2 days before it arrives, but at least I know it's coming. I feel bad for them, they should cut delivery to 4-5 days/week except for express deliveries.  If anyone is sending time sensitive, critical stuff my first class at this point, that's a mistake.

HeavyG

dbCooper said:

Trivia for those that may not know: Here in deeply conservative Nebraska we have 100% public power.  The metrics for reliability and rates indicate it works well for customers.  Privatization interests make noise occasionally to change this system, curiously they never get any traction. 

There are well run organizations and there are poorly run organizations. Whether they are publicly owned or privately owned is usually of little real world relevance.

kl8ton

I didn't read all of this thread but felt this belonged here.

JohnInCarolina

I know I indicated I'd said my peace, and I have, but I did just want to share this article I found from Brookings that I thought was pretty helpful:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/08/26/how-is-the-u-s-postal-service-governed-and-funded/

lkapigian

kl8ton said:

I didn't read all of this thread but felt this belonged here.

Looks light Lori Lightfoot with Kramer 

Ozzie_Isaac

I had a time sensitive document that required my signature get misplaced in the USPS building.  There was an employee who absolutely tore the place apart and found it.  Took him about 20 min.  Everyone else said they couldn't find it.

That employee deserves an accolade. He was excited to have a mystery to solve and he went at it with a passion not normally assigned to government employees.  Everyone in line waiting for him was annoyed.  He shut his little window and all you heard was banging, smashing, and swearing.  Then he popped open his window with the glee of a 4 year old on Christmas and handed me the envelope.

It was a tax document, that was mailed 3 days before penalties would have applied.  I got it 8 days later.

On the tax front, fortunately my CPA had already handled it.  Her paperwork crossed paths with my penalty warning.

alaskanassasin

Ozzie_Isaac said:

I had a time sensitive document that required my signature get misplaced in the USPS building.  There was an employee who absolutely tore the place apart and found it.  Took him about 20 min.  Everyone else said they couldn't find it.

That employee deserves an accolade. He was excited to have a mystery to solve and he went at it with a passion not normally assigned to government employees.  Everyone in line waiting for him was annoyed.  He shut his little window and all you heard was banging, smashing, and swearing.  Then he popped open his window with the glee of a 4 year old on Christmas and handed me the envelope.

It was a tax document, that was mailed 3 days before penalties would have applied.  I got it 8 days later.

On the tax front, fortunately my CPA had already handled it.  Her paperwork crossed paths with my penalty warning.

 I left my tax payment in the same spot I leave packages at the unmanned counter.  After a week and a half of not clearing I called the PO and asked if he remembers seeing it (we have one guy at the po Bob) he said nope.  Two days later it cleared.