'No Way To Prevent This,' says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

Battleborn

Botch said:

I am happy to see you support minimizing Mag capacity limits.  Thank you.  But...  << said Botch; quoting intelligently on this forum is difficult.
 
Battleborn said:
Every single one of those instances, with the exception of Route 91, could have been done with pistols and achieved the same death count. 

Trust me, I’m not advocating for status quo. Something has to be done. I would rather spend time, money and resources in people rather than fighting doing the same on an object.

No, I can't agree with that statement at all.  Many kids were able to flee during reloading (and I have no clue about how big a clip can be loaded into a pistol) during several attacks in the past.  The type of weapon DOES matter!  
 
Finally, I'm completely unfamiliar with "Route 91"; do you have a link/background?  Thanks.    

You can get 30 round magazines in a lot of handguns with 50 round drums readily available for Glocks, which is probably the most popular handgun. 

Route 91 is the festival in Las Vegas that happened in 2017. 

JohnInCarolina

Battleborn said:

Botch said:

I am happy to see you support minimizing Mag capacity limits.  Thank you.  But...  << said Botch; quoting intelligently on this forum is difficult.
 
Battleborn said:
Every single one of those instances, with the exception of Route 91, could have been done with pistols and achieved the same death count. 

Trust me, I’m not advocating for status quo. Something has to be done. I would rather spend time, money and resources in people rather than fighting doing the same on an object.

No, I can't agree with that statement at all.  Many kids were able to flee during reloading (and I have no clue about how big a clip can be loaded into a pistol) during several attacks in the past.  The type of weapon DOES matter!  
 
Finally, I'm completely unfamiliar with "Route 91"; do you have a link/background?  Thanks.    

You can get 30 round magazines in a lot of handguns with 50 round drums readily available for Glocks, which is probably the most popular handgun. 

Route 91 is the festival in Las Vegas that happened in 2017. 

The 30 round magazines and the 50 round drums - are those necessary for hunting, or self-defense?

Battleborn

JohnInCarolina said:

Battleborn said:

Botch said:

I am happy to see you support minimizing Mag capacity limits.  Thank you.  But...  << said Botch; quoting intelligently on this forum is difficult.
 
Battleborn said:
Every single one of those instances, with the exception of Route 91, could have been done with pistols and achieved the same death count. 

Trust me, I’m not advocating for status quo. Something has to be done. I would rather spend time, money and resources in people rather than fighting doing the same on an object.

No, I can't agree with that statement at all.  Many kids were able to flee during reloading (and I have no clue about how big a clip can be loaded into a pistol) during several attacks in the past.  The type of weapon DOES matter!  
 
Finally, I'm completely unfamiliar with "Route 91"; do you have a link/background?  Thanks.    

You can get 30 round magazines in a lot of handguns with 50 round drums readily available for Glocks, which is probably the most popular handgun. 

Route 91 is the festival in Las Vegas that happened in 2017. 

The 30 round magazines and the 50 round drums - are those necessary for hunting, or self-defense?

Absolutely not. And as I said above, magazine capacity limits is something I could get behind. 

dbCooper

Battleborn said:

...

I believe that if we begin to address things like mental health we would see a drastic decline in these types of events. Our county jail is the #1 provider of mental health services in the state. That seems crazy to me. 

That was the essence of "Defund The Police", reallocate the mental health monies from law enforcement back to the mental health providers.  The idea being letting both sets of professionals focus on what they do best.

Unfortunately and unsurprisingly, various unscrupulous political actors morphed the movement message into "Shut down police forces and fire the officers". 

Thanks @Battleborn for the service you provide and your input here.  And happy anniversary too!

Battleborn

dbCooper said:

Battleborn said:

...

I believe that if we begin to address things like mental health we would see a drastic decline in these types of events. Our county jail is the #1 provider of mental health services in the state. That seems crazy to me. 

That was the essence of "Defund The Police", reallocate the mental health monies from law enforcement back to the mental health providers.  The idea being letting both sets of professionals focus on what they do best.

Unfortunately and unsurprisingly, various unscrupulous political actors morphed the movement message into "Shut down police forces and fire the officers". 

Thanks @Battleborn for the service you provide and your input here.  And happy anniversary too!

I always believed that was a failed logic. Police departments are already underfunded, understaffed and undertrained. That is not where money needs to be diverted from. We have 100’s of billions of dollars we send overseas that could be used here. 

Everything comes down to politics and how the wind is blowing at the current time. Hopefully one day we can get back to finding common ground and finding some solutions without everything being all or nothing. 

JohnInCarolina

comic interlude:

http://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1529998421196537856?s=20&amp;t=Pjv-IamHn4hIpwM3dLPRiw

JohnInCarolina

I wonder how the unarmed children felt.  Good grief.

http://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/1529969734048878592?s=20&amp;t=Pjv-IamHn4hIpwM3dLPRiw

nolaegghead

I don’t think you could have stopped me from going in if I was there, even if it was stupid.

fishlessman

even though we have had some over paid officers in my town, their training is high level.  they have gone down my street looking like an elite army force. enough so that there have been calls to stop it and the chief forced into an early retirement. the high school is really unsecured though, some hippy liberal idea of open concept classrooms. silliest thing ive ever seen in a school, 6 teachers with their own classes in one open room

lousubcap

Here's a lengthy but good read on the gun issue:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/05/senate-state-bias-filibuster-blocking-gun-control-legislation/638425/?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email  

HeavyG

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1529670885770027008

HeavyG

JohnInCarolina

HeavyG said:

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1529670885770027008

Question for you @Battleborn on this one - you had mentioned that in your experience, police departments and underfunded and understaffed.  I'm just curious what you think of Uvalde spending 40% of their municipal budget on their police force.  Does that seem high to you?

I think there are two ways to view this.  Maybe some departments are still underfunded because even with a city spending 40% of their budget on police, the reality is that LEOs are still asked to do a lot.  The other view is that in a lot of cities, 40% of the city budget still doesn't add up to a whole lot.  

nolaegghead

Sure are a lot of unknown variables there to form an opinion. 

JohnInCarolina

nolaegghead said:

Sure are a lot of unknown variables there to form an opinion. 

That never stopped you!

Legume

That blue camo is really working in that desert looking landscape, but that’s not 40% of their budget there. (Edit - misread, I thought it was 40% of police budget on swat stuff).

To me this is only slightly better than a town the size of Uvalde investing more heavily in more jails and judges.  We are working the wrong end of the problem, it’s either too hard or not as much fun to work the upstream end of problems.  It also requires coordination and multi-faceted approaches across government silos that is tough to achieve, businesses struggle with this too because it’s not easy and we want short term returns.  

Prevention is notoriously hard to measure, it can take a long time and large samples to be able to show progress - our political environment does not allow for these kinds of approaches and the commitment necessary.  Think about how many times a politician makes claims that his opponents policies have failed and its been what, six months?  We have probably abandoned more good ideas too quickly than we have enacted bad ideas.  Unfortunately, we let politicians convince us it matters if the idea was brought by red or blue, we let them convince us to not judge ideas on merit with their talking points.

We as consumers don’t buy into long term solutions either.  That’s a problem we all have and share in as a society.  Lose weight quickly!  Get rich quickly!  Binge a whole season of shows in one weekend!  Buy a car with no money down!

We have a responsibility to take a longer term view and not accept politician's or media’s talking points at face value.  They are lawyers arguing a very narrow case for a very specific outcome.  Every.  Single.  Day.

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/NPRinskeep/status/1530238837997330433?s=20&amp;t=jR2AJHVAIUSzA9PmlG3QBA

Battleborn

JohnInCarolina said:

HeavyG said:

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1529670885770027008

Question for you @Battleborn on this one - you had mentioned that in your experience, police departments and underfunded and understaffed.  I'm just curious what you think of Uvalde spending 40% of their municipal budget on their police force.  Does that seem high to you?

I think there are two ways to view this.  Maybe some departments are still underfunded because even with a city spending 40% of their budget on police, the reality is that LEOs are still asked to do a lot.  The other view is that in a lot of cities, 40% of the city budget still doesn't add up to a whole lot.  

As Nola said there are a lot of variables. The 40% number seems like a lot at first glance, but what does it include? Obviously the police themselves. Jails are expensive to operate. Support staff, maintenance and communications add up. 

JohnInCarolina

Battleborn said:

JohnInCarolina said:

HeavyG said:

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1529670885770027008

Question for you @Battleborn on this one - you had mentioned that in your experience, police departments and underfunded and understaffed.  I'm just curious what you think of Uvalde spending 40% of their municipal budget on their police force.  Does that seem high to you?

I think there are two ways to view this.  Maybe some departments are still underfunded because even with a city spending 40% of their budget on police, the reality is that LEOs are still asked to do a lot.  The other view is that in a lot of cities, 40% of the city budget still doesn't add up to a whole lot.  

As Nola said there are a lot of variables. The 40% number seems like a lot at first glance, but what does it include? Obviously the police themselves. Jails are expensive to operate. Support staff, maintenance and communications add up. 

Here's the breakdown - looks like the bulk of it is straight salaries:



As a point of reference, the town has a population of around 16,000 people.

JohnInCarolina

Just noticed the pair of zeroes by the "School Resource Officer".  Damn.  

HeavyG

Looking like the residents of Uvalde should demand the disbanding of their entire police force and start from scratch.

JohnInCarolina

HeavyG said:

Looking like the residents of Uvalde should demand the disbanding of their entire police force and start from scratch.

Somehow this just keeps getting worse.

YukonRon

I think they should publish the photos of the carnage, exactly where they lay, with the blood on the floor and splattered on the desk and walls, for everyone to see instead of the cute and sweet pictures of them smiling.

Post the image of the parents doing DNA tests, because it is so difficult to identify  some of the children after they have been hit with a round or two.

Then after you see that, let us have that pro life hypocrisy bull **** argument.

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/TomPepinsky/status/1530231971086999554?s=20&amp;t=jR2AJHVAIUSzA9PmlG3QBA

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1529910935225258001?s=20&amp;t=jR2AJHVAIUSzA9PmlG3QBA

nolaegghead

JohnInCarolina said:

Battleborn said:

JohnInCarolina said:

HeavyG said:

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1529670885770027008

Question for you @Battleborn on this one - you had mentioned that in your experience, police departments and underfunded and understaffed.  I'm just curious what you think of Uvalde spending 40% of their municipal budget on their police force.  Does that seem high to you?

I think there are two ways to view this.  Maybe some departments are still underfunded because even with a city spending 40% of their budget on police, the reality is that LEOs are still asked to do a lot.  The other view is that in a lot of cities, 40% of the city budget still doesn't add up to a whole lot.  

As Nola said there are a lot of variables. The 40% number seems like a lot at first glance, but what does it include? Obviously the police themselves. Jails are expensive to operate. Support staff, maintenance and communications add up. 

Here's the breakdown - looks like the bulk of it is straight salaries:



As a point of reference, the town has a population of around 16,000 people.

The numbers are right in the average range.  I don't think this stuff is an outlier in any way over the average small town police dept.  (based on looking up the averages).

nolaegghead

JohnInCarolina said:

http://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1529910935225258001?s=20&amp;t=jR2AJHVAIUSzA9PmlG3QBA

That's weird because I remember a bout a dozen people telling me there aren't any loopholes.

HeavyG

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1530219824156139523

Legume

Clearly the problem is the door was propped open.  If it had been shut and locked, the gunman would’ve gotten back into his truck and driven home to help his grandma to the hospital.

JohnInCarolina