OT subject but worth a main-stream read- OT News Feeds...

Gulfcoastguy

https://insideevs.com/news/570472/ukraine-crisis-stops-vw-evproduction/

Gulfcoastguy

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HviNCAkz7is

another vid about the Chechens

Gulfcoastguy

https://www.yahoo.com/news/how-the-world-punished-russia-for-invading-ukraine-192732724.html

And Switzerland took a side. They’re keeping all of the Russian money.

nolaegghead

Gulfcoastguy said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/how-the-world-punished-russia-for-invading-ukraine-192732724.html

And Switzerland took a side. They’re keeping all of the Russian money.

Do you think Switzerland (really their banking system) is actually "keeping" russian money (as in claiming it as their own)?

I'm not sure Swiss banks fall under OFAC, but that's the international body that sanctioning entities usually follow - they "freeze" the money.  It can't be withdrawn without OFAC approval.

Russia is headed in the same direction as North Korea.  F1 race in Sochi cancelled....soccer sanctions, tech, etc.   The Russian people and corporations are going to be hurting bad.  I'm not sure Putin thought this through...or if he even gives a sh!t.   But he's going to have an uprising of his own inside of Russia.  He'll have to run the country like Alexander Lukashenko.

Gulfcoastguy

nolaegghead said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/how-the-world-punished-russia-for-invading-ukraine-192732724.html

And Switzerland took a side. They’re keeping all of the Russian money.

Do you think Switzerland (really their banking system) is actually "keeping" russian money (as in claiming it as their own)?

I'm not sure Swiss banks fall under OFAC, but that's the international body that sanctioning entities usually follow - they "freeze" the money.  It can't be withdrawn without OFAC approval.

Russia is headed in the same direction as North Korea.  F1 race in Sochi cancelled....soccer sanctions, tech, etc.   The Russian people and corporations are going to be hurting bad.  I'm not sure Putin thought this through...or if he even gives a sh!t.   But he's going to have an uprising of his own inside of Russia.  He'll have to run the country like Alexander Lukashenko.

As I’m not letting Russians withdraw it. Reading the article might help.

nolaegghead

I read the whole thing

nolaegghead

My point was “keeping” the money implies forfeiture or confiscation.  

Kayak

Eoin said:

Kayak said:

Another perspective. Certainly worth considering, but I'm sure it won't be.

Putin’s Nuclear Threat – Consortium News

Lots of what ifs in there. If Russia has nukes, why does it need a buffer state at all? This seems more like Vlad's war than Russia's war.

So, what if NATO troops start moving military equipment into Ukraine? Does that not seem likely to get them shot at? What happens then?
At this point, who cares why they did it, we need to be careful about what we (NATO) do.

Gulfcoastguy

Well we are already moving military equipment up to the Ukrainian border. They have to pick it up and carry it the rest of the way. Those of us old enough to remember how the US reacted to the Ho Chi Mingh Trail being used to carry supplies to Viet Long in South Viet Nam remember how we reacted to it. We sprayed Agent Orange on it to defoliate the trees, invented gunships with night vision to shoot up the trucks, dropped listening devices on the trail, and dropped land mines on it. The Russians did much the same thing to the supply lines in Afghanistan( google butterfly mines). But we didn't threaten to use nukes.

JohnInCarolina

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/27/war-ukraine-is-going-badly-everyone/

Kayak

Gulfcoastguy said:

Well we are already moving military equipment up to the Ukrainian border. They have to pick it up and carry it the rest of the way. Those of us old enough to remember how the US reacted to the Ho Chi Mingh Trail being used to carry supplies to Viet Long in South Viet Nam remember how we reacted to it. We sprayed Agent Orange on it to defoliate the trees, invented gunships with night vision to shoot up the trucks, dropped listening devices on the trail, and dropped land mines on it. The Russians did much the same thing to the supply lines in Afghanistan( google butterfly mines). But we didn't threaten to use nukes.

Well, that's not encouraging, since most of that interdiction was in countries that weren't Vietnam, and we proceeded to commit some war crimes bombing the bejesus out of them.

Canugghead

JohnInCarolina said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/27/war-ukraine-is-going-badly-everyone/

Not a fan

JohnInCarolina

Kayak said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Well we are already moving military equipment up to the Ukrainian border. They have to pick it up and carry it the rest of the way. Those of us old enough to remember how the US reacted to the Ho Chi Mingh Trail being used to carry supplies to Viet Long in South Viet Nam remember how we reacted to it. We sprayed Agent Orange on it to defoliate the trees, invented gunships with night vision to shoot up the trucks, dropped listening devices on the trail, and dropped land mines on it. The Russians did much the same thing to the supply lines in Afghanistan( google butterfly mines). But we didn't threaten to use nukes.

Well, that's not encouraging, since most of that interdiction was in countries that weren't Vietnam, and we proceeded to commit some war crimes bombing the bejesus out of them.

I don't think there's really any risk of the US committing war crimes helping out Ukraine here.  Do you?  The war crimes seem fairly confined to one bad actor in this crisis, at least at the moment.  

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1498662739182505990?s=20&t=sIBkrwkyScmuTlkH3-iP7g

Gulfcoastguy

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Well we are already moving military equipment up to the Ukrainian border. They have to pick it up and carry it the rest of the way. Those of us old enough to remember how the US reacted to the Ho Chi Mingh Trail being used to carry supplies to Viet Long in South Viet Nam remember how we reacted to it. We sprayed Agent Orange on it to defoliate the trees, invented gunships with night vision to shoot up the trucks, dropped listening devices on the trail, and dropped land mines on it. The Russians did much the same thing to the supply lines in Afghanistan( google butterfly mines). But we didn't threaten to use nukes.

Well, that's not encouraging, since most of that interdiction was in countries that weren't Vietnam, and we proceeded to commit some war crimes bombing the bejesus out of them.

I don't think there's really any risk of the US committing war crimes helping out Ukraine here.  Do you?  The war crimes seem fairly confined to one bad actor in this crisis, at least at the moment.  

That was a “What if the Russians did what we did in the Vietnam War” comparison John. They might even one up us. In Afghanistan they air dropped small mines disguised as childrens toys after all.

JohnInCarolina

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Well we are already moving military equipment up to the Ukrainian border. They have to pick it up and carry it the rest of the way. Those of us old enough to remember how the US reacted to the Ho Chi Mingh Trail being used to carry supplies to Viet Long in South Viet Nam remember how we reacted to it. We sprayed Agent Orange on it to defoliate the trees, invented gunships with night vision to shoot up the trucks, dropped listening devices on the trail, and dropped land mines on it. The Russians did much the same thing to the supply lines in Afghanistan( google butterfly mines). But we didn't threaten to use nukes.

Well, that's not encouraging, since most of that interdiction was in countries that weren't Vietnam, and we proceeded to commit some war crimes bombing the bejesus out of them.

I don't think there's really any risk of the US committing war crimes helping out Ukraine here.  Do you?  The war crimes seem fairly confined to one bad actor in this crisis, at least at the moment.  

That was a “What if the Russians did what we did in the Vietnam War” comparison John. They might even one up us. In Afghanistan they air dropped small mines disguised as childrens toys after all.

I think I got the point you were trying to make just fine, Gulfcoastguy.  My question was more directed at Kayak's response.  

Kayak

JohnInCarolina said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Well we are already moving military equipment up to the Ukrainian border. They have to pick it up and carry it the rest of the way. Those of us old enough to remember how the US reacted to the Ho Chi Mingh Trail being used to carry supplies to Viet Long in South Viet Nam remember how we reacted to it. We sprayed Agent Orange on it to defoliate the trees, invented gunships with night vision to shoot up the trucks, dropped listening devices on the trail, and dropped land mines on it. The Russians did much the same thing to the supply lines in Afghanistan( google butterfly mines). But we didn't threaten to use nukes.

Well, that's not encouraging, since most of that interdiction was in countries that weren't Vietnam, and we proceeded to commit some war crimes bombing the bejesus out of them.

I don't think there's really any risk of the US committing war crimes helping out Ukraine here.  Do you?  The war crimes seem fairly confined to one bad actor in this crisis, at least at the moment.  

That was a “What if the Russians did what we did in the Vietnam War” comparison John. They might even one up us. In Afghanistan they air dropped small mines disguised as childrens toys after all.

I think I got the point you were trying to make just fine, Gulfcoastguy.  My question was more directed at Kayak's response.  

My response was the "what if the Russians did what we did" to Gulfcoastguys post. The Russians are the ones who would want to interdict war material coming into Ukraine, not us. That interdiction would be taking place in Poland. So far, we're dropping it at the door and making them come get it, and the rumors of jets being given to them have been false.

JohnInCarolina

Kayak said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Well we are already moving military equipment up to the Ukrainian border. They have to pick it up and carry it the rest of the way. Those of us old enough to remember how the US reacted to the Ho Chi Mingh Trail being used to carry supplies to Viet Long in South Viet Nam remember how we reacted to it. We sprayed Agent Orange on it to defoliate the trees, invented gunships with night vision to shoot up the trucks, dropped listening devices on the trail, and dropped land mines on it. The Russians did much the same thing to the supply lines in Afghanistan( google butterfly mines). But we didn't threaten to use nukes.

Well, that's not encouraging, since most of that interdiction was in countries that weren't Vietnam, and we proceeded to commit some war crimes bombing the bejesus out of them.

I don't think there's really any risk of the US committing war crimes helping out Ukraine here.  Do you?  The war crimes seem fairly confined to one bad actor in this crisis, at least at the moment.  

That was a “What if the Russians did what we did in the Vietnam War” comparison John. They might even one up us. In Afghanistan they air dropped small mines disguised as childrens toys after all.

I think I got the point you were trying to make just fine, Gulfcoastguy.  My question was more directed at Kayak's response.  

My response was the "what if the Russians did what we did" to Gulfcoastguys post. The Russians are the ones who would want to interdict war material coming into Ukraine, not us. That interdiction would be taking place in Poland. So far, we're dropping it at the door and making them come get it, and the rumors of jets being given to them have been false.

Thanks.  I clearly misread it.

Eoin

Kayak said:

Eoin said:

Kayak said:

Another perspective. Certainly worth considering, but I'm sure it won't be.

Putin’s Nuclear Threat – Consortium News

Lots of what ifs in there. If Russia has nukes, why does it need a buffer state at all? This seems more like Vlad's war than Russia's war.

So, what if NATO troops start moving military equipment into Ukraine? Does that not seem likely to get them shot at? What happens then?
At this point, who cares why they did it, we need to be careful about what we (NATO) do.

Russia has pushed Ukraine into the arms of NATO and the EU. Russia wants Ukraine in its economic orbit, but offers nothing in return. Being tied to a sinking, corrupt economy or joining a huge free trade bloc? Easy decision. Russia also wants to have political control over Ukraine. NATO is a mutual defence pact, not political control. Easy decision. Russia's problem is its own inability to have an open economy and democratic politics. Nobody wants to join 'Greater Russia' because it's a failure.

lousubcap

@Eoin - well said and succinct.  

nolaegghead

I concur ^^^

Gulfcoastguy

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Well we are already moving military equipment up to the Ukrainian border. They have to pick it up and carry it the rest of the way. Those of us old enough to remember how the US reacted to the Ho Chi Mingh Trail being used to carry supplies to Viet Long in South Viet Nam remember how we reacted to it. We sprayed Agent Orange on it to defoliate the trees, invented gunships with night vision to shoot up the trucks, dropped listening devices on the trail, and dropped land mines on it. The Russians did much the same thing to the supply lines in Afghanistan( google butterfly mines). But we didn't threaten to use nukes.

Well, that's not encouraging, since most of that interdiction was in countries that weren't Vietnam, and we proceeded to commit some war crimes bombing the bejesus out of them.

I don't think there's really any risk of the US committing war crimes helping out Ukraine here.  Do you?  The war crimes seem fairly confined to one bad actor in this crisis, at least at the moment.  

That was a “What if the Russians did what we did in the Vietnam War” comparison John. They might even one up us. In Afghanistan they air dropped small mines disguised as childrens toys after all.

I think I got the point you were trying to make just fine, Gulfcoastguy.  My question was more directed at Kayak's response.  

My response was the "what if the Russians did what we did" to Gulfcoastguys post. The Russians are the ones who would want to interdict war material coming into Ukraine, not us. That interdiction would be taking place in Poland. So far, we're dropping it at the door and making them come get it, and the rumors of jets being given to them have been false.

Thanks.  I clearly misread it.

Btw I did not click dislike. 

nolaegghead

Russia is becoming more and more like North Korea....in terms of in the more extreme they (Putin) gets, the more the world eschews and isolates them, and ultimately, the more they will have to suckle China's teat.

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/wjhenn/status/1498701670515187718?s=20&t=PWs7XhuGzSp3Q9vLF548Gw

Good to see cooler heads prevailing on this issue, at least so far.   I’d like nothing more than us being able to do more to help out Ukraine, but escalating in the direction of WW3 is not going to work out for anyone in the end.

JohnInCarolina

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Kayak said:

Gulfcoastguy said:

Well we are already moving military equipment up to the Ukrainian border. They have to pick it up and carry it the rest of the way. Those of us old enough to remember how the US reacted to the Ho Chi Mingh Trail being used to carry supplies to Viet Long in South Viet Nam remember how we reacted to it. We sprayed Agent Orange on it to defoliate the trees, invented gunships with night vision to shoot up the trucks, dropped listening devices on the trail, and dropped land mines on it. The Russians did much the same thing to the supply lines in Afghanistan( google butterfly mines). But we didn't threaten to use nukes.

Well, that's not encouraging, since most of that interdiction was in countries that weren't Vietnam, and we proceeded to commit some war crimes bombing the bejesus out of them.

I don't think there's really any risk of the US committing war crimes helping out Ukraine here.  Do you?  The war crimes seem fairly confined to one bad actor in this crisis, at least at the moment.  

That was a “What if the Russians did what we did in the Vietnam War” comparison John. They might even one up us. In Afghanistan they air dropped small mines disguised as childrens toys after all.

I think I got the point you were trying to make just fine, Gulfcoastguy.  My question was more directed at Kayak's response.  

My response was the "what if the Russians did what we did" to Gulfcoastguys post. The Russians are the ones who would want to interdict war material coming into Ukraine, not us. That interdiction would be taking place in Poland. So far, we're dropping it at the door and making them come get it, and the rumors of jets being given to them have been false.

Thanks.  I clearly misread it.

Btw I did not click dislike. 

No worries.  I have two serial dislikers, and to me it’s quite obvious who they are.  I don’t even pay attention to those at this point.  Some folks just don’t have anything better to do.  

dmchicago

That was me just 'cause.

Kayak

Eoin said:

Kayak said:

Eoin said:

Kayak said:

Another perspective. Certainly worth considering, but I'm sure it won't be.

Putin’s Nuclear Threat – Consortium News

Lots of what ifs in there. If Russia has nukes, why does it need a buffer state at all? This seems more like Vlad's war than Russia's war.

So, what if NATO troops start moving military equipment into Ukraine? Does that not seem likely to get them shot at? What happens then?
At this point, who cares why they did it, we need to be careful about what we (NATO) do.

Russia has pushed Ukraine into the arms of NATO and the EU. Russia wants Ukraine in its economic orbit, but offers nothing in return. Being tied to a sinking, corrupt economy or joining a huge free trade bloc? Easy decision. Russia also wants to have political control over Ukraine. NATO is a mutual defence pact, not political control. Easy decision. Russia's problem is its own inability to have an open economy and democratic politics. Nobody wants to join 'Greater Russia' because it's a failure.

Succinct anyway, but does that have anything to do with what I said? As far as I can tell, they have invaded Ukraine and the economics of it all are a moot point. I just don't want any NATO troops getting shot at and Polish civilians catching the misses. Thankfully it seems no one in charge on our side wants to get in there either, as long as the Chicken Hawks don't get in charge.

And what's with all the inappropriate dislikes? 

JohnInCarolina

dmchicago said:

That was me just 'cause.

lousubcap

The next level of escalation:
https://tass.com/defense/1414199  

JohnInCarolina

Some of you might be interested in this.  Michael McFaul, our ambassador to Russia from 2012-2014, will be speaking at Duke tonight at 6pm.  He will be talking about Putin's "endgame".  

It is in person but it will also be live-streamed.  Registration is free.  Check it out if you're interested:

https://ags.duke.edu/mc-events/michael-mcfaul/?mc_id=458

@lousubcap