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JohnInCarolina

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Mro3UfF2k

The resemblance to some of the conversations here really is uncanny.  

caliking

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

BenfordSlaw said:

This belongs in the bird feeder white grievance post

FTFY

I did not see any racism in that thread.  Perhaps a twinge of classist superiority, but no rascism.

Is that what we’re calling screeds against “illegals” and people who don’t speak English and anchor babies these days?  Classist superiority?

Duly noted.

That is more nationalistic pride than racism.  Come to America via legal means, follow our laws, and learn the language.  That isn't racism.  That is how the world works.  We are the only country that seems to wrapped around the axle on this simple philosophy.

I have lived in a non-western nation.  I have experienced immigration from the other side.

Immigration attitudes/perspectives are often draped in idealism, but it boils down to resources, especially in terms of human capital... which countries have them, and need/want more, vs. which countries don't have the resources, but plenty of people who are seeking them. 

No country with stagnant, or decreasing, population growth has strict anti-immigration policies. They need the labor, skilled, or otherwise.  About a third of US Nobel laureates have been immigrants. A few decades ago, when the US desperately needed doctors, nurses, engineers, and other professionals, it was a cakewalk to come over. But, they're not the only ones needed to keep a country going.

Yes, I noted the "legal means" bit. Counterpoint - it is likely not known exactly how much of an impact undocumented workers have on just the agricultural economy in the US. And, agreed, many illegal immigrants are not upstanding people. But, it's not like we have any dearth of less than upstanding citizens. 

pgprescott

caliking said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

BenfordSlaw said:

This belongs in the bird feeder white grievance post

FTFY

I did not see any racism in that thread.  Perhaps a twinge of classist superiority, but no rascism.

Is that what we’re calling screeds against “illegals” and people who don’t speak English and anchor babies these days?  Classist superiority?

Duly noted.

That is more nationalistic pride than racism.  Come to America via legal means, follow our laws, and learn the language.  That isn't racism.  That is how the world works.  We are the only country that seems to wrapped around the axle on this simple philosophy.

I have lived in a non-western nation.  I have experienced immigration from the other side.

Immigration attitudes/perspectives are often draped in idealism, but it boils down to resources, especially in terms of human capital... which countries have them, and need/want more, vs. which countries don't have the resources, but plenty of people who are seeking them. 

No country with stagnant, or decreasing, population growth has strict anti-immigration policies. They need the labor, skilled, or otherwise.  About a third of US Nobel laureates have been immigrants. A few decades ago, when the US desperately needed doctors, nurses, engineers, and other professionals, it was a cakewalk to come over. But, they're not the only ones needed to keep a country going.

Yes, I noted the "legal means" bit. Counterpoint - it is likely not known exactly how much of an impact undocumented workers have on just the agricultural economy in the US. And, agreed, many illegal immigrants are not upstanding people. But, it's not like we have any dearth of less than upstanding citizens. 

Straw man and a bad one. Nice try. Well, not really. 

The only valid point you make is the one regarding population growth. That is vital. 

Canugghead

Botch said:

pgprescott said:
I take it as a great compliment and satisfaction of a job well done that you have chosen to attempt to hijack my idea and use it against me. I thank you. 

Some day you and the rest of the pack will get an original idea of your own. Til then, I completely sanction you borrowing mine. After all, it’s people like me that make people like you tolerable. 

Hit me up for that NA beer if the Kenosha stuff breaks your way. Cheers cookie!

Have you been interviewed by Jordan Klepper, by chance?  

I see what you did there 

nolaegghead

Canugghead said:

Botch said:

pgprescott said:
I take it as a great compliment and satisfaction of a job well done that you have chosen to attempt to hijack my idea and use it against me. I thank you. 

Some day you and the rest of the pack will get an original idea of your own. Til then, I completely sanction you borrowing mine. After all, it’s people like me that make people like you tolerable. 

Hit me up for that NA beer if the Kenosha stuff breaks your way. Cheers cookie!

Have you been interviewed by Jordan Klepper, by chance?  

I see what you did there 

Hahaha

caliking

pgprescott said:

caliking said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

BenfordSlaw said:

This belongs in the bird feeder white grievance post

FTFY

I did not see any racism in that thread.  Perhaps a twinge of classist superiority, but no rascism.

Is that what we’re calling screeds against “illegals” and people who don’t speak English and anchor babies these days?  Classist superiority?

Duly noted.

That is more nationalistic pride than racism.  Come to America via legal means, follow our laws, and learn the language.  That isn't racism.  That is how the world works.  We are the only country that seems to wrapped around the axle on this simple philosophy.

I have lived in a non-western nation.  I have experienced immigration from the other side.

Immigration attitudes/perspectives are often draped in idealism, but it boils down to resources, especially in terms of human capital... which countries have them, and need/want more, vs. which countries don't have the resources, but plenty of people who are seeking them. 

No country with stagnant, or decreasing, population growth has strict anti-immigration policies. They need the labor, skilled, or otherwise.  About a third of US Nobel laureates have been immigrants. A few decades ago, when the US desperately needed doctors, nurses, engineers, and other professionals, it was a cakewalk to come over. But, they're not the only ones needed to keep a country going.

Yes, I noted the "legal means" bit. Counterpoint - it is likely not known exactly how much of an impact undocumented workers have on just the agricultural economy in the US. And, agreed, many illegal immigrants are not upstanding people. But, it's not like we have any dearth of less than upstanding citizens. 

Straw man and a bad one. Nice try. Well, not really. 

The only valid point you make is the one regarding population growth. That is vital. 

I think you just helped make my point. Hard to tell.

Ozzie_Isaac

caliking said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

BenfordSlaw said:

This belongs in the bird feeder white grievance post

FTFY

I did not see any racism in that thread.  Perhaps a twinge of classist superiority, but no rascism.

Is that what we’re calling screeds against “illegals” and people who don’t speak English and anchor babies these days?  Classist superiority?

Duly noted.

That is more nationalistic pride than racism.  Come to America via legal means, follow our laws, and learn the language.  That isn't racism.  That is how the world works.  We are the only country that seems to wrapped around the axle on this simple philosophy.

I have lived in a non-western nation.  I have experienced immigration from the other side.

Immigration attitudes/perspectives are often draped in idealism, but it boils down to resources, especially in terms of human capital... which countries have them, and need/want more, vs. which countries don't have the resources, but plenty of people who are seeking them. 

No country with stagnant, or decreasing, population growth has strict anti-immigration policies. They need the labor, skilled, or otherwise.  About a third of US Nobel laureates have been immigrants. A few decades ago, when the US desperately needed doctors, nurses, engineers, and other professionals, it was a cakewalk to come over. But, they're not the only ones needed to keep a country going.

Yes, I noted the "legal means" bit. Counterpoint - it is likely not known exactly how much of an impact undocumented workers have on just the agricultural economy in the US. And, agreed, many illegal immigrants are not upstanding people. But, it's not like we have any dearth of less than upstanding citizens. 

Well written, and I agree.  I have worked with both documented and undocumented workers.  I had a girlfriend whose uncle was undocumented.  His brother owned the landscaping company he worked for.  He was a great guy, and it always was sad because he was never at family gatherings.  He was aftaid to travel if not necessary for fear of being deported.

Growing up 60 minutes from the Southern Border, I have a very conflicted view.  I have worked with some fantastic undocumented workers, and I have also run across coyotes and smugglers while hunting, hiking, and camping.  This is not an easy right/wrong situation.  I don't have answers to be honest.

I also have friends who went through the decade long process to become citizens.  Watching them pay thousands of dollars and years and years to become citizens is impressive.

If I had one suggestion, we need to change our immigration and naturalization process.  It shouldn't be willy-nilly, but it also shouldn't be as onerous and costly as it is.

nolaegghead

 I don't see a strawman argument in Caliking's response.  Can you enlighten us, Pete?

dmchicago

nolaegghead said:

 I don't see a strawman argument in Caliking's response.  Can you enlighten us, Pete?

nolaegghead said:

 I don't see a strawman argument in Caliking's response.  Can you enlighten us, Pete?

He may post something. But he won’t enlighten anyone. 

Ozzie_Isaac

nolaegghead

JohnInCarolina said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Mro3UfF2k

The resemblance to some of the conversations here really is uncanny.  

I just watched this and uncanny resemblance is an understatement.

pgprescott

nolaegghead said:

 I don't see a strawman argument in Caliking's response.  Can you enlighten us, Pete?

No one is arguing for strict anti immigration policies. There, straw man. 

I am surprised you couldn’t see it. The others, not so much. 

How many people lock there doors and windows at night? 

Is that because they never want someone to enter their house? 

Maybe it’s so they can control who comes in and how many?
Additionally, maybe some of the millions of people in this country which are able bodied could do those jobs, even if they don’t want to do so. This might help solve several problems leading all the way to the crime problem that is currently unrelated to the border. 

Idle minds and idle time are not healthy things for a society. 

pgprescott

Also, the Supreme Court may resolve the population issue shortly. There will have to be some adjusting if that happens. Not sure how that’s gonna go. 

pgprescott

dmchicago said:

nolaegghead said:

 I don't see a strawman argument in Caliking's response.  Can you enlighten us, Pete?

nolaegghead said:

 I don't see a strawman argument in Caliking's response.  Can you enlighten us, Pete?

He may post something. But he won’t enlighten anyone. 

I try to make you guys do a little thinking for yourselves in the hopes you can get there on your own. I thinking you just aren’t motivated to do so. It’s that cognitive dissonance thing again. It’s a pandemic all it’s own. 

JohnInCarolina

Ozzie_Isaac said:

caliking said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

BenfordSlaw said:

This belongs in the bird feeder white grievance post

FTFY

I did not see any racism in that thread.  Perhaps a twinge of classist superiority, but no rascism.

Is that what we’re calling screeds against “illegals” and people who don’t speak English and anchor babies these days?  Classist superiority?

Duly noted.

That is more nationalistic pride than racism.  Come to America via legal means, follow our laws, and learn the language.  That isn't racism.  That is how the world works.  We are the only country that seems to wrapped around the axle on this simple philosophy.

I have lived in a non-western nation.  I have experienced immigration from the other side.

Immigration attitudes/perspectives are often draped in idealism, but it boils down to resources, especially in terms of human capital... which countries have them, and need/want more, vs. which countries don't have the resources, but plenty of people who are seeking them. 

No country with stagnant, or decreasing, population growth has strict anti-immigration policies. They need the labor, skilled, or otherwise.  About a third of US Nobel laureates have been immigrants. A few decades ago, when the US desperately needed doctors, nurses, engineers, and other professionals, it was a cakewalk to come over. But, they're not the only ones needed to keep a country going.

Yes, I noted the "legal means" bit. Counterpoint - it is likely not known exactly how much of an impact undocumented workers have on just the agricultural economy in the US. And, agreed, many illegal immigrants are not upstanding people. But, it's not like we have any dearth of less than upstanding citizens. 

Well written, and I agree.  I have worked with both documented and undocumented workers.  I had a girlfriend whose uncle was undocumented.  His brother owned the landscaping company he worked for.  He was a great guy, and it always was sad because he was never at family gatherings.  He was aftaid to travel if not necessary for fear of being deported.

Growing up 60 minutes from the Southern Border, I have a very conflicted view.  I have worked with some fantastic undocumented workers, and I have also run across coyotes and smugglers while hunting, hiking, and camping.  This is not an easy right/wrong situation.  I don't have answers to be honest.

I also have friends who went through the decade long process to become citizens.  Watching them pay thousands of dollars and years and years to become citizens is impressive.

If I had one suggestion, we need to change our immigration and naturalization process.  It shouldn't be willy-nilly, but it also shouldn't be as onerous and costly as it is.

Personal contact with undocumented people tends to change one’s perspective on these issues.  The wife works with Dreamers as well as lots of undocumented high school students and their families.  We’ve had them over our house many times for dinner.  Their stories are chilling.  

We had been providing safe harbor for immigrants from Nicaragua for more than 30 years, going back to Reagan.  These are folks who had moved here to escape a war zone, settled in and established families, had kids here who had grown up to be in high school.  A few years ago the US government decided we would no longer allow them to stay, so a bunch of kids ended up having their parents deported back to a country they hadn’t been in for 30+ years.  Unnecessarily cruel, in my opinion.

pgprescott

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

caliking said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

BenfordSlaw said:

This belongs in the bird feeder white grievance post

FTFY

I did not see any racism in that thread.  Perhaps a twinge of classist superiority, but no rascism.

Is that what we’re calling screeds against “illegals” and people who don’t speak English and anchor babies these days?  Classist superiority?

Duly noted.

That is more nationalistic pride than racism.  Come to America via legal means, follow our laws, and learn the language.  That isn't racism.  That is how the world works.  We are the only country that seems to wrapped around the axle on this simple philosophy.

I have lived in a non-western nation.  I have experienced immigration from the other side.

Immigration attitudes/perspectives are often draped in idealism, but it boils down to resources, especially in terms of human capital... which countries have them, and need/want more, vs. which countries don't have the resources, but plenty of people who are seeking them. 

No country with stagnant, or decreasing, population growth has strict anti-immigration policies. They need the labor, skilled, or otherwise.  About a third of US Nobel laureates have been immigrants. A few decades ago, when the US desperately needed doctors, nurses, engineers, and other professionals, it was a cakewalk to come over. But, they're not the only ones needed to keep a country going.

Yes, I noted the "legal means" bit. Counterpoint - it is likely not known exactly how much of an impact undocumented workers have on just the agricultural economy in the US. And, agreed, many illegal immigrants are not upstanding people. But, it's not like we have any dearth of less than upstanding citizens. 

Well written, and I agree.  I have worked with both documented and undocumented workers.  I had a girlfriend whose uncle was undocumented.  His brother owned the landscaping company he worked for.  He was a great guy, and it always was sad because he was never at family gatherings.  He was aftaid to travel if not necessary for fear of being deported.

Growing up 60 minutes from the Southern Border, I have a very conflicted view.  I have worked with some fantastic undocumented workers, and I have also run across coyotes and smugglers while hunting, hiking, and camping.  This is not an easy right/wrong situation.  I don't have answers to be honest.

I also have friends who went through the decade long process to become citizens.  Watching them pay thousands of dollars and years and years to become citizens is impressive.

If I had one suggestion, we need to change our immigration and naturalization process.  It shouldn't be willy-nilly, but it also shouldn't be as onerous and costly as it is.

Personal contact with undocumented people tends to change one’s perspective on these issues.  The wife works with Dreamers as well as lots of undocumented high school students and their families.  We’ve had them over our house many times for dinner.  Their stories are chilling.  

We had been providing safe harbor for immigrants from Nicaragua for more than 30 years, going back to Reagan.  These are folks who had moved here to escape a war zone, settled in and established families, had kids here who had grown up to be in high school.  A few years ago the US government decided we would no longer allow them to stay, so a bunch of kids ended up having their parents deported back to a country they hadn’t been in for 30+ years.  Unnecessarily cruel, in my opinion.

Literally a billion kids around the world with this “story”. I think again, we can all agree it’s chilling and or tragic on at least some level. You simply cannot make policy on the border based upon that. Responsible leaders have to consider the ramifications of the policies on the citizenry. Heck, there are literally millions of stories like that of actual citizen in the inner cities and rural areas scattered throughout the country. 

Everybody has sympathy for those in horrible conditions. Absolutely it will have a profound affect on anyone who interacts or even observes these conditions. 

I would argue we would be in a much better position to deal with those people in a legal and orderly fashion if the insanity was stopped at the border. It doesn’t promote the sympathetic environment you need to gain “buy in” from the citizenry. Once that’s done, you do as Ozzie suggests and streamline the system for orderly entry. Nobody would argue. Well, I’m sure some, but not many. The disorder is intentional and severely detrimental to the country as a whole. 

JohnInCarolina

Food for thought:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/04/real-immigration-crisis-people-overstaying-their-visas/587485/

JohnInCarolina

And it’s sinking.  That’s a shame.  

lousubcap

Coulda been nuked...

caliking

Ozzie_Isaac said:

caliking said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

BenfordSlaw said:

This belongs in the bird feeder white grievance post

FTFY

I did not see any racism in that thread.  Perhaps a twinge of classist superiority, but no rascism.

Is that what we’re calling screeds against “illegals” and people who don’t speak English and anchor babies these days?  Classist superiority?

Duly noted.

That is more nationalistic pride than racism.  Come to America via legal means, follow our laws, and learn the language.  That isn't racism.  That is how the world works.  We are the only country that seems to wrapped around the axle on this simple philosophy.

I have lived in a non-western nation.  I have experienced immigration from the other side.

Immigration attitudes/perspectives are often draped in idealism, but it boils down to resources, especially in terms of human capital... which countries have them, and need/want more, vs. which countries don't have the resources, but plenty of people who are seeking them. 

No country with stagnant, or decreasing, population growth has strict anti-immigration policies. They need the labor, skilled, or otherwise.  About a third of US Nobel laureates have been immigrants. A few decades ago, when the US desperately needed doctors, nurses, engineers, and other professionals, it was a cakewalk to come over. But, they're not the only ones needed to keep a country going.

Yes, I noted the "legal means" bit. Counterpoint - it is likely not known exactly how much of an impact undocumented workers have on just the agricultural economy in the US. And, agreed, many illegal immigrants are not upstanding people. But, it's not like we have any dearth of less than upstanding citizens. 

Well written, and I agree.  I have worked with both documented and undocumented workers.  I had a girlfriend whose uncle was undocumented.  His brother owned the landscaping company he worked for.  He was a great guy, and it always was sad because he was never at family gatherings.  He was aftaid to travel if not necessary for fear of being deported.

Growing up 60 minutes from the Southern Border, I have a very conflicted view.  I have worked with some fantastic undocumented workers, and I have also run across coyotes and smugglers while hunting, hiking, and camping.  This is not an easy right/wrong situation.  I don't have answers to be honest.

I also have friends who went through the decade long process to become citizens.  Watching them pay thousands of dollars and years and years to become citizens is impressive.

If I had one suggestion, we need to change our immigration and naturalization process.  It shouldn't be willy-nilly, but it also shouldn't be as onerous and costly as it is.

It takes $$ either way. Coyotes, and other human traffickers, don't work for free, and they're not cheap, from what I've heard. 

US citizenship isn't necessarily the romantic idea that its often made out to be. Four close friends (all university faculty), who all had Green Cards, applied for US citizenship after Trump became President. There was real concern that they may end up having issues because of the xenophobia he was drumming up. 

The "legal" road to US citizenship will become easier, depending on which sectors need more labor, in the future. That's how its typically been in the past. 

caliking

pgprescott said:

dmchicago said:

nolaegghead said:

 I don't see a strawman argument in Caliking's response.  Can you enlighten us, Pete?

nolaegghead said:

 I don't see a strawman argument in Caliking's response.  Can you enlighten us, Pete?

He may post something. But he won’t enlighten anyone. 

I try to make you guys do a little thinking for yourselves in the hopes you can get there on your own. I thinking you just aren’t motivated to do so. It’s that cognitive dissonance thing again. It’s a pandemic all it’s own. 

Bless your heart, @pgeprescott. Not being able to see the forest for the trees is one of your more endearing qualities. 

nolaegghead

pgprescott said:

nolaegghead said:

 I don't see a strawman argument in Caliking's response.  Can you enlighten us, Pete?

No one is arguing for strict anti immigration policies. There, straw man. 

I am surprised you couldn’t see it. The others, not so much. 

How many people lock there doors and windows at night? 

Is that because they never want someone to enter their house? 

Maybe it’s so they can control who comes in and how many?
Additionally, maybe some of the millions of people in this country which are able bodied could do those jobs, even if they don’t want to do so. This might help solve several problems leading all the way to the crime problem that is currently unrelated to the border. 

Idle minds and idle time are not healthy things for a society. 

Making a strawman argument is making a context switch.  Cali's just replying in kind.

Botch

May be pertinent to the discussion:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZqEL1_E2OY
 

Eoin

Langner91 said:

You all can argue this all you want, but as a first generation American, I can say with conviction that if the USA isn't the best country, then why do people die trying to get here?

My aunt didn't die while my grandmother (and father) left everything they knew and tried to get to any other country on that list.  Ironically, they were fleeing one of the countries that ranked higher in that "poll" that was posted.

Change my mind.

People die trying to get to lots of rich or safe countries because where they come from has no opportunities or isn't safe.

Eoin

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

caliking said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

BenfordSlaw said:

This belongs in the bird feeder white grievance post

FTFY

I did not see any racism in that thread.  Perhaps a twinge of classist superiority, but no rascism.

Is that what we’re calling screeds against “illegals” and people who don’t speak English and anchor babies these days?  Classist superiority?

Duly noted.

That is more nationalistic pride than racism.  Come to America via legal means, follow our laws, and learn the language.  That isn't racism.  That is how the world works.  We are the only country that seems to wrapped around the axle on this simple philosophy.

I have lived in a non-western nation.  I have experienced immigration from the other side.

Immigration attitudes/perspectives are often draped in idealism, but it boils down to resources, especially in terms of human capital... which countries have them, and need/want more, vs. which countries don't have the resources, but plenty of people who are seeking them. 

No country with stagnant, or decreasing, population growth has strict anti-immigration policies. They need the labor, skilled, or otherwise.  About a third of US Nobel laureates have been immigrants. A few decades ago, when the US desperately needed doctors, nurses, engineers, and other professionals, it was a cakewalk to come over. But, they're not the only ones needed to keep a country going.

Yes, I noted the "legal means" bit. Counterpoint - it is likely not known exactly how much of an impact undocumented workers have on just the agricultural economy in the US. And, agreed, many illegal immigrants are not upstanding people. But, it's not like we have any dearth of less than upstanding citizens. 

Well written, and I agree.  I have worked with both documented and undocumented workers.  I had a girlfriend whose uncle was undocumented.  His brother owned the landscaping company he worked for.  He was a great guy, and it always was sad because he was never at family gatherings.  He was aftaid to travel if not necessary for fear of being deported.

Growing up 60 minutes from the Southern Border, I have a very conflicted view.  I have worked with some fantastic undocumented workers, and I have also run across coyotes and smugglers while hunting, hiking, and camping.  This is not an easy right/wrong situation.  I don't have answers to be honest.

I also have friends who went through the decade long process to become citizens.  Watching them pay thousands of dollars and years and years to become citizens is impressive.

If I had one suggestion, we need to change our immigration and naturalization process.  It shouldn't be willy-nilly, but it also shouldn't be as onerous and costly as it is.

Personal contact with undocumented people tends to change one’s perspective on these issues.  The wife works with Dreamers as well as lots of undocumented high school students and their families.  We’ve had them over our house many times for dinner.  Their stories are chilling.  

We had been providing safe harbor for immigrants from Nicaragua for more than 30 years, going back to Reagan.  These are folks who had moved here to escape a war zone, settled in and established families, had kids here who had grown up to be in high school.  A few years ago the US government decided we would no longer allow them to stay, so a bunch of kids ended up having their parents deported back to a country they hadn’t been in for 30+ years.  Unnecessarily cruel, in my opinion.

Literally a billion kids around the world with this “story”. I think again, we can all agree it’s chilling and or tragic on at least some level. You simply cannot make policy on the border based upon that. Responsible leaders have to consider the ramifications of the policies on the citizenry. Heck, there are literally millions of stories like that of actual citizen in the inner cities and rural areas scattered throughout the country. 

Everybody has sympathy for those in horrible conditions. Absolutely it will have a profound affect on anyone who interacts or even observes these conditions. 

I would argue we would be in a much better position to deal with those people in a legal and orderly fashion if the insanity was stopped at the border. It doesn’t promote the sympathetic environment you need to gain “buy in” from the citizenry. Once that’s done, you do as Ozzie suggests and streamline the system for orderly entry. Nobody would argue. Well, I’m sure some, but not many. The disorder is intentional and severely detrimental to the country as a whole. 

Literally billions, correct. Maybe if we in the west bombed fewer of them, supported fewer murderous dictators and insisted that our multi-national businesses created actual wealth in poor countries rather than just use them for cheap labour and low employment / environmental standards, fewer of these people would be forced to travel thousands of miles just to find somewhere safe to live with enough to eat.

Legume

So would you call that corporate and colonial greed @Eoin.  I like the RCA.  As the Oracle of Illinois recently posted in a different thread:

Problem solving is an advanced skill. It’s most important component is properly identifying the actual problem. It’s a very common error to mistake a symptom or reaction as the actual problem when in reality it’s not the problem

In fairness, I think he’s stuck in a pretty swift current and is still working his way upstream on the problem part.

Eoin

Legume said:

So would you call that corporate and colonial greed @Eoin.  I like the RCA.  As the Oracle of Illinois recently posted in a different thread:

Problem solving is an advanced skill. It’s most important component is properly identifying the actual problem. It’s a very common error to mistake a symptom or reaction as the actual problem when in reality it’s not the problem

In fairness, I think he’s stuck in a pretty swift current and is still working his way upstream on the problem part.

Here in the UK we certainly have a large responsibility for colonial greed over the centuries.

Treating immigration as the problem and trying to stop it is doomed to failure if the underlying problems aren't addressed.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Eoin said:

Legume said:

So would you call that corporate and colonial greed @Eoin.  I like the RCA.  As the Oracle of Illinois recently posted in a different thread:

Problem solving is an advanced skill. It’s most important component is properly identifying the actual problem. It’s a very common error to mistake a symptom or reaction as the actual problem when in reality it’s not the problem

In fairness, I think he’s stuck in a pretty swift current and is still working his way upstream on the problem part.

Here in the UK we certainly have a large responsibility for colonial greed over the centuries.

Treating immigration as the problem and trying to stop it is doomed to failure if the underlying problems aren't addressed.

Eoin

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Eoin said:

Legume said:

So would you call that corporate and colonial greed @Eoin.  I like the RCA.  As the Oracle of Illinois recently posted in a different thread:

Problem solving is an advanced skill. It’s most important component is properly identifying the actual problem. It’s a very common error to mistake a symptom or reaction as the actual problem when in reality it’s not the problem

In fairness, I think he’s stuck in a pretty swift current and is still working his way upstream on the problem part.

Here in the UK we certainly have a large responsibility for colonial greed over the centuries.

Treating immigration as the problem and trying to stop it is doomed to failure if the underlying problems aren't addressed.

Eddie Izzard is a star.

pgprescott

I’m headed out to a “justice for Jussie” rally. Please pray for this justice. There’s nothing I’d like to see more than true justice for Jussie. 🙏