Uhmmm....

alaskanassasin

The back and forth is always fun to follow, but I think the personal attacks made by "trolls" are childish. fwiw

JohnInCarolina

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Amazing how one of these threads can turn on a dime from discussions of d!ck measuring to legitimately informed and useful information about home mortgage lending.  

That is what makes this forum go round.  We are all from different walks of life, who each have a BBQ problem.  Except @HeavyG .  He doesn't even cook.

No no no, you have that last part wrong.   @HeavyG cooks all the time, he just doesn't share any of his results with the rest of us.  The ingrate!

JohnEggGio

I’m no math major, nor an engineer, but if you go by the old rule of thumb that a 1% fee will buy your interest rate down by .25%, then it would require a rate escalation of only 1/8th to cover the .5% fee.  I doubt moving the 30 year fixed from 3.0% to 3.125% will slow the market significantly.  Just my 2% of $1.00.

Ozzie_Isaac

JohnEggGio said:

I’m no math major, nor an engineer, but if you go by the old rule of thumb that a 1% fee will buy your interest rate down by .25%, then it would require a rate escalation of only 1/8th to cover the .5% fee.  I doubt moving the 30 year fixed from 3.0% to 3.125% will slow the market significantly.  Just my 2% of $1.00.

You are correct, that is why I expect rates to drop back down.  However, right now they are trying to just figure out what is going on and what the actual cost is, all while writing big checks to the government.

No matter the long term outcome, a loan refi costs you 30% more this week than last.  All with little notice or fanfare.

johnmitchell

Wowzer!!!!Awesome thread😂😂😂

Legume

alaskanassasin said:

The back and forth is always fun to follow, but I think the personal attacks made by "trolls" are childish. fwiw

I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t think thetrim or billidiot are troll accounts.  Not sure about that guy with all the degrees though.

lousubcap

Ozzie_Isaac said:

dmchicago said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Amazing how one of these threads can turn on a dime from discussions of d!ck measuring to legitimately informed and useful information about home mortgage lending.  

Maybe we can start comparing the size of our...uh...equity?

This is an interesting suggestion.  Rates are so low, that large equity is tying up significant investment potential.

Some people value no mortgage, others value significant leverage when money is cheap.

I need to know the forum's value, leverage or equity, before I know which lie to make.

I'm shopping topics of perceived value as a hook for the Friday night Zoom session.  This would have to be early on the agenda (and that may be too late) for reasoned conversation.  FWIW-

JohnEggGio

Ozzie_Isaac said:

dmchicago said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Amazing how one of these threads can turn on a dime from discussions of d!ck measuring to legitimately informed and useful information about home mortgage lending.  

Maybe we can start comparing the size of our...uh...equity?

This is an interesting suggestion.  Rates are so low, that large equity is tying up significant investment potential.

Some people value no mortgage, others value significant leverage when money is cheap.

I need to know the forum's value, leverage or equity, before I know which lie to make.

With home mortgage interest rates this low, and home mortgage interest being tax deductible (for those who itemize) - leverage!  

Ozzie_Isaac

JohnEggGio said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

dmchicago said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Amazing how one of these threads can turn on a dime from discussions of d!ck measuring to legitimately informed and useful information about home mortgage lending.  

Maybe we can start comparing the size of our...uh...equity?

This is an interesting suggestion.  Rates are so low, that large equity is tying up significant investment potential.

Some people value no mortgage, others value significant leverage when money is cheap.

I need to know the forum's value, leverage or equity, before I know which lie to make.

With home mortgage interest rates this low, and home mortgage interest being tax deductible (for those who itemize) - leverage!  

I agree completely.  Not sure where to invest right now though.

Botch

JohnEggGio said:
With home mortgage interest rates this low, and home mortgage interest being tax deductible (for those who itemize) - leverage!  

Is that still true?  I thought that tax deduction went away a year or so ago (I retired my mortgage about 9 years ago, so I haven't paid too much attention...) 

SGH

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Biggest issue I have is where to put my money.  

Sure must be nice brother. Unfortunately I will never know. 

Ozzie_Isaac

Botch said:

JohnEggGio said:
With home mortgage interest rates this low, and home mortgage interest being tax deductible (for those who itemize) - leverage!  

Is that still true?  I thought that tax deduction went away a year or so ago (I retired my mortgage about 9 years ago, so I haven't paid too much attention...) 

You have to itemize and it was capped at $10k.  That may be changing.

Ozzie_Isaac

SGH said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Biggest issue I have is where to put my money.  

Sure must be nice brother. Unfortunately I will never know. 

Ha!  Ok, reading that, I realize how inaccurate that statement is.  I have corrected it, and fired my social media coordinator.  It sounds conceited, and that was not the intent.  I should really hire a better more empathetic assistant/social media coordinator.  They do not get the vibe of this joint.

JohnEggGio

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Botch said:

JohnEggGio said:
With home mortgage interest rates this low, and home mortgage interest being tax deductible (for those who itemize) - leverage!  

Is that still true?  I thought that tax deduction went away a year or so ago (I retired my mortgage about 9 years ago, so I haven't paid too much attention...) 

You have to itemize and it was capped at $10k.  That may be changing.

The $10,000 limit is on “SALT” (state and local taxes), not home mortgage interest.  I wouldn’t invest anywhere just now.  

Ozzie_Isaac

JohnEggGio said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Botch said:

JohnEggGio said:
With home mortgage interest rates this low, and home mortgage interest being tax deductible (for those who itemize) - leverage!  

Is that still true?  I thought that tax deduction went away a year or so ago (I retired my mortgage about 9 years ago, so I haven't paid too much attention...) 

You have to itemize and it was capped at $10k.  That may be changing.

The $10,000 limit is on “SALT” (state and local taxes), not home mortgage interest.  I wouldn’t invest anywhere just now.  

Doh!  You are correct sir.  2020 limit is mortgage interest on up to $750k in mortgage debt.  There are implications to your standard deductions for itemizing, so actual net benefit is less than it appears.

The SALT limit doesn't bother me.  Keeps my taxes from subsidizing high property tax locales like California and New York.

Gulfcoastguy

SGH said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Biggest issue I have is where to put my money.  

Sure must be nice brother. Unfortunately I will never know. 

Just don’t put it with the brisket.

JohnEggGio

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnEggGio said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Botch said:

JohnEggGio said:
With home mortgage interest rates this low, and home mortgage interest being tax deductible (for those who itemize) - leverage!  

Is that still true?  I thought that tax deduction went away a year or so ago (I retired my mortgage about 9 years ago, so I haven't paid too much attention...) 

You have to itemize and it was capped at $10k.  That may be changing.

The $10,000 limit is on “SALT” (state and local taxes), not home mortgage interest.  I wouldn’t invest anywhere just now.  

Doh!  You are correct sir.  2020 limit is mortgage interest on up to $750k in mortgage debt.  There are implications to your standard deductions for itemizing, so actual net benefit is less than it appears.

The SALT limit doesn't bother me.  Keeps my taxes from subsidizing high property tax locales like California and New York.

The effect of the SALT limit varies substantially from state to state - some of the east coast states with heavy income and real estate taxes were heavily impacted.  My wife is from Long Island - there, real estate taxes on a relatively modest home can well exceed $10k.  Sure, the standard deduction was about doubled, but there were/are many losers (loser with respect to itemized deductions, but winner with respect to maximum incremental tax rate and AMT).

Disclaimer: I am not a qualified  tax or investment advisor.  I am just a clown on a bbq forum.  My advice should not be considered on any topic beyond drip pans for long low and slow cooks, and crab cakes.

JohnEggGio

@Ozzie_Isaac You’re right, though.  The increased Standard Deduction, and the level of other itemized deductions an individual has (SALT, medical, charitable...) all must be considered, but one does not need JIC’s credentials to model it.

SGH

Ozzie_Isaac said:

SGH said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Biggest issue I have is where to put my money.  

Sure must be nice brother. Unfortunately I will never know. 

Ha!  Ok, reading that, I realize how inaccurate that statement is.  I have corrected it, and fired my social media coordinator.  It sounds conceited, and that was not the intent.  I should really hire a better more empathetic assistant/social media coordinator.  They do not get the vibe of this joint.

To late my friend. Your secret is out now. Now we know who has Ron’s money 

Ozzie_Isaac

JohnEggGio said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnEggGio said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Botch said:

JohnEggGio said:
With home mortgage interest rates this low, and home mortgage interest being tax deductible (for those who itemize) - leverage!  

Is that still true?  I thought that tax deduction went away a year or so ago (I retired my mortgage about 9 years ago, so I haven't paid too much attention...) 

You have to itemize and it was capped at $10k.  That may be changing.

The $10,000 limit is on “SALT” (state and local taxes), not home mortgage interest.  I wouldn’t invest anywhere just now.  

Doh!  You are correct sir.  2020 limit is mortgage interest on up to $750k in mortgage debt.  There are implications to your standard deductions for itemizing, so actual net benefit is less than it appears.

The SALT limit doesn't bother me.  Keeps my taxes from subsidizing high property tax locales like California and New York.

The effect of the SALT limit varies substantially from state to state - some of the east coast states with heavy income and real estate taxes were heavily impacted.  My wife is from Long Island - there, real estate taxes on a relatively modest home can well exceed $10k.  Sure, the standard deduction was about doubled, but there were/are many losers (loser with respect to itemized deductions, but winner with respect to maximum incremental tax rate and AMT).

Disclaimer: I am not a qualified  tax or investment advisor.  I am just a clown on a bbq forum.  My advice should not be considered on any topic beyond drip pans for long low and slow cooks, and crab cakes.

The problem with that, is it is essentially a direct transfer of taxes from the federal government to the state.  California/New York/East Coast have very high taxes and the federal government gets less from those States because of the bottomless federal tax deduction  It softened the high tax blow for their people.  Other better managed States with lower property taxes have a  populace with significantly less fedral tax deduction.

Therefore, I indirectly subsidize bad policies and high taxes in those states.

nolaegghead

Oh REALLY?

this is pretty common knowledge...that the blue states subsidize the red...

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

TEXASBGE2018

nolaegghead said:

Oh REALLY?

this is pretty common knowledge...that the blue states subsidize the red...

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

An interesting article from a not very conservative publication

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/finance/502321-no-blue-states-do-not-bailout-red-states%3famp

Ozzie_Isaac

nolaegghead said:

Oh REALLY?

this is pretty common knowledge...that the blue states subsidize the red...

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

So many words.  Lots of numbers and "ratios" calculated with magic equations.  How did they build their "dependency" equations?  What were their assumptions?

Also, it seems more dependent on income levels then actual political party in the Governor mansion.  Which is interesting in and of itself.  Does poverty/wealth impact who is in power, or does who is in power affect poverty/wealth?

Which states seem to have unsustainable debt loads and what are their political leanings?  Illinois jumps to mind as massively indebt, poorly run, and on the verge of bankruptcy.

Hopefully, I successfully distracted you, because that article flew in the face of my world view and I have some thinking to do.

nolaegghead

TEXASBGE2018 said:

nolaegghead said:

Oh REALLY?

this is pretty common knowledge...that the blue states subsidize the red...

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

An interesting article from a not very conservative publication

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/finance/502321-no-blue-states-do-not-bailout-red-states%3famp

Read it all.  Argument is, well, there is more poverty in the red states so it's not fair to say the blue states subsidize the red because they're all getting the same fed dollars, it's just diluted in the blue states because rich people pay more taxes.  Sounds like spin to me.

nolaegghead

To back up what I just stated:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income#States_and_territories_ranked_by_per_capita_income

Ozzie_Isaac

nolaegghead said:

To back up what I just stated:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income#States_and_territories_ranked_by_per_capita_income

Well fvck.  Lets remove the top 5% and then redo the numbers.

A single person earning a billion is equivalent to 10,000 people earning 100,000.  Although, I think a billionaire's tax returns probably show very little income. 🤔

This stuff is complicated. I need sound bites.

Ozzie_Isaac

Ozzie_Isaac said:

nolaegghead said:

To back up what I just stated:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income#States_and_territories_ranked_by_per_capita_income

Well fvck.  Lets remove the top 5% and then redo the numbers.

A single person earning a billion is equivalent to 10,000 people earning 100,000.  Although, I think a billionaire's tax returns probably show very little income. 🤔

This stuff is complicated. I need sound bites.

I figured it out.  All the red states are being sucked dry by massive government mandated wealth redistribution.  Dems and their policies are stealing the money and giving it back to their voters through high paying Union jobs and jobs in academia.  Hence the high per capita income in blue states.

nolaegghead

Don't forget the satanic Dem deep state runs a pedophile sex ring that drinks the blood of children to live for centuries.  Only Donald Trump can fix this.  Must be true, I read it on the interwebs.

JohnInCarolina

I’m trying to imagine Melania teaching at a community college and... nope.

thetrim

If only that were true, Johnny Boy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M4_Ommfvv0