Please Stay Home

JohnInCarolina

Legume said:

And I would agree with that in general for the Friday zooms.  But if there was interest in something structured and dedicated to that, could be educational and interesting.  And it doesn’t have to be politics, can be spares vs baby backs.  Brisket vs prime rib.

ok, it’s going to prob be politics of some sort, but I’d rather listen to that from folks here than politicians on a stage.

Probably not though.

“Brisket: the ultimate Q or shoe leather?”

Legume

JohnInCarolina said:

Legume said:

And I would agree with that in general for the Friday zooms.  But if there was interest in something structured and dedicated to that, could be educational and interesting.  And it doesn’t have to be politics, can be spares vs baby backs.  Brisket vs prime rib.

ok, it’s going to prob be politics of some sort, but I’d rather listen to that from folks here than politicians on a stage.

Probably not though.

“Brisket: the ultimate Q or shoe leather?”

I’ll tell you what, even when I’ve hit it out of the park (eg waveland ave), it’s nasty shoe leather.

NCSmoky

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

1voyager said:

I'm all for legal immigration. I push back on illegals flooding across the border. I'm patriotic like that.

Human beings aren’t illegal.  Start there, and maybe try growing a soul.

The humans aren't illegal but their actions (illegal entry to foreign country) are. We have laws and if I'm expected to follow them and am punished for violating then I expect others to be held accountable as well. I guess my soul is underdeveloped.

I am guessing you’ve not met very many of them.  And yes, do some work on your compassion for other people who are far less fortunate than you are, thanks.

Laws aren’t based on emotion, they are what they are and you are compliant or not. I’m sure there are many good people breaking our laws by coming here but that doesn’t change the definition of their actions.

So they’re criminals, in your view?

Their actions are criminal as defined by US law. 

What actions?  Living in the US without documentation? 

Entry into the US without going through proper visa process. If they entered with proper visa but did not leave when the visa expired without renewal then that is also a violation of us criminal code. As much as you are emotionally vested in these people you will never prove that they are not in violation of US law. That is the only issue I am addressing 

You do understand that there are civil violations of the law and criminal violations of the law, and that they are handled differently, right?

Yeah... that doesn't answer the question I posed to you.  I can cite case law back at you if you want, and I don't even have to spend half an hour googling for it.  

There's a reason deportation cases are almost entirely processed via civil hearings in the US.  The act of being here "without papers" isn't viewed in and of itself as a crime.   Deportation is a very different consequence from being thrown in jail.   But most Americans tend to view these people as criminals, and wrongfully so. 

It didn’t take me a half hour to google that, I went for a walk, but thanks for the passive aggressive snarky remark. The “WOP” status is just icing on the cake, the initial entry is the first illegal action taken. Civil or criminal it still violates US law. You want to contend that they are not criminals but won’t argue the fact that they broke US law by entering the country illegally. 

JohnInCarolina

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

1voyager said:

I'm all for legal immigration. I push back on illegals flooding across the border. I'm patriotic like that.

Human beings aren’t illegal.  Start there, and maybe try growing a soul.

The humans aren't illegal but their actions (illegal entry to foreign country) are. We have laws and if I'm expected to follow them and am punished for violating then I expect others to be held accountable as well. I guess my soul is underdeveloped.

I am guessing you’ve not met very many of them.  And yes, do some work on your compassion for other people who are far less fortunate than you are, thanks.

Laws aren’t based on emotion, they are what they are and you are compliant or not. I’m sure there are many good people breaking our laws by coming here but that doesn’t change the definition of their actions.

So they’re criminals, in your view?

Their actions are criminal as defined by US law. 

What actions?  Living in the US without documentation? 

Entry into the US without going through proper visa process. If they entered with proper visa but did not leave when the visa expired without renewal then that is also a violation of us criminal code. As much as you are emotionally vested in these people you will never prove that they are not in violation of US law. That is the only issue I am addressing 

You do understand that there are civil violations of the law and criminal violations of the law, and that they are handled differently, right?

Yeah... that doesn't answer the question I posed to you.  I can cite case law back at you if you want, and I don't even have to spend half an hour googling for it.  

There's a reason deportation cases are almost entirely processed via civil hearings in the US.  The act of being here "without papers" isn't viewed in and of itself as a crime.   Deportation is a very different consequence from being thrown in jail.   But most Americans tend to view these people as criminals, and wrongfully so. 

It didn’t take me a half hour to google that, I went for a walk, but thanks for the passive aggressive snarky remark. The “WOP” status is just icing on the cake, the initial entry is the first illegal action taken. Civil or criminal it still violates US law. You want to contend that they are not criminals but won’t argue the fact that they broke US law by entering the country illegally. 

How did people who entered with a visa enter the country illegally?  There are many ways to become undocumented, and overstaying a visa is one of the most common.

And I would just point out that we have a lot of laws in this country.  It’s also against the law to speed, but we don’t call people who get speeding tickets “criminals” now, do we?

lousubcap

I am firmly in the camp of no politics or religion for the Friday Zoom therapy sessions.  There has never been a shortage of free-flowing discussions in the two I have joined.  Just my opinion and we all know what that's worth  

caliking

lousubcap said:

I am firmly in the camp of no politics or religion for the Friday Zoom therapy sessions.  There has never been a shortage of free-flowing discussions in the two I have joined.  Just my opinion and we all know what that's worth  

+1.

thetrim

JohnInCarolina said:

FlyOverCountry said:

His memory of who?  Zoe Baird?

I love the photobomb.  Haha.  I wonder if Biden penetrated her too???  The lady, not the photobomber. 

thetrim

The Friday night zooms are super kewl..  i couldn't join this week, because the wife and daughter were out of town.  It was just my son and me at home, so we spent some QT together...

YukonRon

1voyager said:

YukonRon said:

DMW said:

https://twitter.com/TheBushCenter/status/1256607729151619073

What happened to the Republican party?

Leadership. Faith. Direction. Compasion. 

Gone.

Anyone following the cheeto....this is what you need to stand up and demand. You will never get it, because you have bowed to a monarchy. 

America depends on you. You put Trump in office.

History will define you.

The Republican party finally got some balls, that's what happened. 

The Democrat party has been exposed as the true party of hate. Look no further than calling President Trump names, such as the one you mentioned. The blistering hatred for President Trump is repulsive.

Where's the leadership, faith, direction and compassion in the democrat party? There is none. Leadership mode is attack and deflect. Faith as long as it isn't Christian. Direction? Seriously? Democrats have no direction. Compassion? Sure. Compassion for illegals at the expense of US citizens.

I helped put President Trump in office and I'm proud of it.

I am thinking balls must have replaced brains, for the republican party, and those supporting that fiasco.

I am glad you take pride in electing a president who destroyed the greatest economy, cost americans trillions in savings and investments, jeopardized the security of our country, and above all, takes no responsibility (Lots of balls there, huh?) For the infected and dead.

So I understand your attacking and deflecting in your response.

Trump has done nothing but lie, attack, deflect, and blame since he has been in office. So please save that sermon for the rest of your fellow trumpluddites.

I do not judge people by their choice of faith. I leave that to the Christians.

Do not play the Christian card with me. Not in the way the republicans have treated those seeking a better life and security by coming here to survive.

Nor preach to me the sanctity of  life, when republicans are telling people to sacrifice their lives for the betterment of corporate America, as the republican representitive has done in Indiana, and the Republican Lt Governor of Texas has done. (Real christian leadership there).

Compassion. Tell me about it. Put UV light inside of you and inject disinfectants. That is compassion right? Am I confusing that with sarcasm? Even better, make people go into situations ravaged with Covid19, risk their lives to make hamburger. Truly compassilnate there.

Give me a break.

You have hit zero credibility on every point you have stated, other than your proud stance in helping to elect the worst president in the entire history of our country. You totally got me there.

You find the blistering hate repulsive? Pick out just one of the 68,000 who died, and go be with the family which bears the loss everyday. Their anger is far more blistering than mine.

Your whole response was nothing but blame and deflect, typical of your president and party.

dmchicago

caliking said:

lousubcap said:

I am firmly in the camp of no politics or religion for the Friday Zoom therapy sessions.  There has never been a shortage of free-flowing discussions in the two I have joined.  Just my opinion and we all know what that's worth  

+1.

+2

Legume

caliking said:

lousubcap said:

I am firmly in the camp of no politics or religion for the Friday Zoom therapy sessions.  There has never been a shortage of free-flowing discussions in the two I have joined.  Just my opinion and we all know what that's worth  

+1.

I’ve only made one of the Friday nights, and wasn’t suggesting to burn those down with politics, at all.  The medium is good, people here like to debate and that can go better F2F than it does on a forum.  Much of what’s posted here is closer to shouting match than discussion & debate.  But, like is often said here, nobody is going to change minds on a bbq forum anyway.

JohnInCarolina

Another inside look at yet another lost month, chaos, and gross negligence:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/34-days-of-pandemic-inside-trumps-desperate-attempts-to-reopen-america/2020/05/02/e99911f4-8b54-11ea-9dfd-990f9dcc71fc_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_30days719pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

dbCooper

It is important to note the "put muscle to the meat" workers in packing plants are now deemed Essential.  An outsized percentage of them are immigrants, largely Hispanic.  A not so big secret, some amount of these workers are undocumented.  Enforcement against these workers is lax even in "normal" times, research why if interested. 

Given the current difficulties in the meat processing sector it may be more appropriate to champion these people, rather than calling for their arrest/deportation. 

Realize also that many people can't, or won't, do the work in these plants. 

Botch

The Democrat party has been exposed as the true party of hate.

I don't remember the neo-nazis coming out of the woodwork and descending on Charlottesville, during the last democratic administration....    

Acn

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

1voyager said:

I'm all for legal immigration. I push back on illegals flooding across the border. I'm patriotic like that.

Human beings aren’t illegal.  Start there, and maybe try growing a soul.

The humans aren't illegal but their actions (illegal entry to foreign country) are. We have laws and if I'm expected to follow them and am punished for violating then I expect others to be held accountable as well. I guess my soul is underdeveloped.

I am guessing you’ve not met very many of them.  And yes, do some work on your compassion for other people who are far less fortunate than you are, thanks.

Laws aren’t based on emotion, they are what they are and you are compliant or not. I’m sure there are many good people breaking our laws by coming here but that doesn’t change the definition of their actions.

So they’re criminals, in your view?

Their actions are criminal as defined by US law. 

What actions?  Living in the US without documentation? 

Entry into the US without going through proper visa process. If they entered with proper visa but did not leave when the visa expired without renewal then that is also a violation of us criminal code. As much as you are emotionally vested in these people you will never prove that they are not in violation of US law. That is the only issue I am addressing 

You do understand that there are civil violations of the law and criminal violations of the law, and that they are handled differently, right?

Yeah... that doesn't answer the question I posed to you.  I can cite case law back at you if you want, and I don't even have to spend half an hour googling for it.  

There's a reason deportation cases are almost entirely processed via civil hearings in the US.  The act of being here "without papers" isn't viewed in and of itself as a crime.   Deportation is a very different consequence from being thrown in jail.   But most Americans tend to view these people as criminals, and wrongfully so. 

It didn’t take me a half hour to google that, I went for a walk, but thanks for the passive aggressive snarky remark. The “WOP” status is just icing on the cake, the initial entry is the first illegal action taken. Civil or criminal it still violates US law. You want to contend that they are not criminals but won’t argue the fact that they broke US law by entering the country illegally. 

I assume you are just as passionate about your desire to punish, to the fullest extent of the law, those who employ these aliens.

NCSmoky

Acn said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

NCSmoky said:

JohnInCarolina said:

1voyager said:

I'm all for legal immigration. I push back on illegals flooding across the border. I'm patriotic like that.

Human beings aren’t illegal.  Start there, and maybe try growing a soul.

The humans aren't illegal but their actions (illegal entry to foreign country) are. We have laws and if I'm expected to follow them and am punished for violating then I expect others to be held accountable as well. I guess my soul is underdeveloped.

I am guessing you’ve not met very many of them.  And yes, do some work on your compassion for other people who are far less fortunate than you are, thanks.

Laws aren’t based on emotion, they are what they are and you are compliant or not. I’m sure there are many good people breaking our laws by coming here but that doesn’t change the definition of their actions.

So they’re criminals, in your view?

Their actions are criminal as defined by US law. 

What actions?  Living in the US without documentation? 

Entry into the US without going through proper visa process. If they entered with proper visa but did not leave when the visa expired without renewal then that is also a violation of us criminal code. As much as you are emotionally vested in these people you will never prove that they are not in violation of US law. That is the only issue I am addressing 

You do understand that there are civil violations of the law and criminal violations of the law, and that they are handled differently, right?

Yeah... that doesn't answer the question I posed to you.  I can cite case law back at you if you want, and I don't even have to spend half an hour googling for it.  

There's a reason deportation cases are almost entirely processed via civil hearings in the US.  The act of being here "without papers" isn't viewed in and of itself as a crime.   Deportation is a very different consequence from being thrown in jail.   But most Americans tend to view these people as criminals, and wrongfully so. 

It didn’t take me a half hour to google that, I went for a walk, but thanks for the passive aggressive snarky remark. The “WOP” status is just icing on the cake, the initial entry is the first illegal action taken. Civil or criminal it still violates US law. You want to contend that they are not criminals but won’t argue the fact that they broke US law by entering the country illegally. 

I assume you are just as passionate about your desire to punish, to the fullest extent of the law, those who employ these aliens.

Your assumption is correct.

JohnInCarolina

 My own view is that these people mostly come here to better their lives and those of their family, number one, and that while there's a rejoinder for them to "get in line" the reality is that the line does not exist and that relatively few paths to legal citizenship are available to people who didn't happen to have the good fortune to simply be born here.  We rely on them, perhaps now more than ever, to process our meat, pick our fruits and vegetables, wash dishes, work a factory floor, etc.  I just think we should put their lives and stories in context rather than viewing them as lawless criminals.  This is especially true for the Dreamers who were brought here as very young children by their parents, who have come out of the shadows in exchange for us not deporting them, and are actually required to stay out of any kind of legal trouble to retain their DACA status.

I guess I would just like to understand the view that the "Democrat party" cares more about "illegal immigrants" than citizens, which is the claim that started all of this mess.    Is advocating more paths to citizenship really caring about them more than regular citizens?  Or suggesting they should be able to purchase health insurance?  What is it, exactly, that indicates a genuine preference for them?  

Dobie

dbCooper said:

It is important to note the "put muscle to the meat" workers in packing plants are now deemed Essential.  An outsized percentage of them are immigrants, largely Hispanic.  A not so big secret, some amount of these workers are undocumented.  Enforcement against these workers is lax even in "normal" times, research why if interested. 

Given the current difficulties in the meat processing sector it may be more appropriate to champion these people, rather than calling for their arrest/deportation. 

Realize also that many people can't, or won't, do the work in these plants. 

Don’t deport instead exploit, got it. 

lousubcap

What's the over/under on this thread remaining untouched by The Buffalo??  
At the current pace and with the new normal Monday on the horizon I'm setting 30 hours tops.  

JohnInCarolina

lousubcap said:

What's the over/under on this thread remaining untouched by The Buffalo??  
At the current pace and with the new normal Monday on the horizon I'm setting 30 hours tops.  

Seems to be letting the cattle roam free a little these days, Frank.  I don't see why that would change abruptly vis-a-vis this thread.  It's not as though he's being specifically called out or that there are more flags than usual.  

dmchicago

My wife works in the staffing industry. Mostly light industrial. manufacturing and distribution.

According to her, there are 2 types of clients. Those that insist on E-Verify and the other 90%.

lousubcap

I hope you are right but the general flavor seems to have gotten a bit more caustic the last few pages.  Independent of the above line, I don't have any idea the buffalo's various sentencing criteria.  

JohnInCarolina

dmchicago said:

My wife works in the staffing industry. Mostly light industrial. manufacturing and distribution.

According to her, there are 2 types of clients. Those that insist on E-Verify and the other 90%.

I wonder which side of the ledger the various golf courses, hotels, resorts, and vineyards currently run by these two clowns tend to fall on?  

DMW

JohnInCarolina said:

 My own view is that these people mostly come here to better their lives and those of their family, number one, and that while there's a rejoinder for them to "get in line" the reality is that the line does not exist and that relatively few paths to legal citizenship are available to people who didn't happen to have the good fortune to simply be born here.  We rely on them, perhaps now more than ever, to process our meat, pick our fruits and vegetables, wash dishes, work a factory floor, etc.  I just think we should put their lives and stories in context rather than viewing them as lawless criminals.  This is especially true for the Dreamers who were brought here as very young children by their parents, who have come out of the shadows in exchange for us not deporting them, and are actually required to stay out of any kind of legal trouble to retain their DACA status.

I guess I would just like to understand the view that the "Democrat party" cares more about "illegal immigrants" than citizens, which is the claim that started all of this mess.    Is advocating more paths to citizenship really caring about them more than regular citizens?  Or suggesting they should be able to purchase health insurance?  What is it, exactly, that indicates a genuine preference for them?  

Spaightlabs

1voyager said:

JohnInCarolina said:

1voyager said:

YukonRon said:

DMW said:

https://twitter.com/TheBushCenter/status/1256607729151619073

What happened to the Republican party?

Leadership. Faith. Direction. Compasion. 

Gone.

Anyone following the cheeto....this is what you need to stand up and demand. You will never get it, because you have bowed to a monarchy. 

America depends on you. You put Trump in office.

History will define you.

The Republican party finally got some balls, that's what happened. 

The Democrat party has been exposed as the true party of hate. Look no further than calling President Trump names, such as the one you mentioned. The blistering hatred for President Trump is repulsive.

Where's the leadership, faith, direction and compassion in the democrat party? There is none. Leadership mode is attack and deflect. Faith as long as it isn't Christian. Direction? Seriously? Democrats have no direction. Compassion? Sure. Compassion for illegals at the expense of US citizens.

I helped put President Trump in office and I'm proud of it.

Somehow I don't doubt that you are.  Is this you, by the way?

Shirt - yes

Flag - no way

Nice attack, BTW.

Snowflake much?

1voyager

Spaightlabs said:

1voyager said:

JohnInCarolina said:

1voyager said:

YukonRon said:

DMW said:

https://twitter.com/TheBushCenter/status/1256607729151619073

What happened to the Republican party?

Leadership. Faith. Direction. Compasion. 

Gone.

Anyone following the cheeto....this is what you need to stand up and demand. You will never get it, because you have bowed to a monarchy. 

America depends on you. You put Trump in office.

History will define you.

The Republican party finally got some balls, that's what happened. 

The Democrat party has been exposed as the true party of hate. Look no further than calling President Trump names, such as the one you mentioned. The blistering hatred for President Trump is repulsive.

Where's the leadership, faith, direction and compassion in the democrat party? There is none. Leadership mode is attack and deflect. Faith as long as it isn't Christian. Direction? Seriously? Democrats have no direction. Compassion? Sure. Compassion for illegals at the expense of US citizens.

I helped put President Trump in office and I'm proud of it.

Somehow I don't doubt that you are.  Is this you, by the way?

Shirt - yes

Flag - no way

Nice attack, BTW.

Snowflake much?

No. 

GATraveller

DMW said:

JohnInCarolina said:

 My own view is that these people mostly come here to better their lives and those of their family, number one, and that while there's a rejoinder for them to "get in line" the reality is that the line does not exist and that relatively few paths to legal citizenship are available to people who didn't happen to have the good fortune to simply be born here.  We rely on them, perhaps now more than ever, to process our meat, pick our fruits and vegetables, wash dishes, work a factory floor, etc.  I just think we should put their lives and stories in context rather than viewing them as lawless criminals.  This is especially true for the Dreamers who were brought here as very young children by their parents, who have come out of the shadows in exchange for us not deporting them, and are actually required to stay out of any kind of legal trouble to retain their DACA status.

I guess I would just like to understand the view that the "Democrat party" cares more about "illegal immigrants" than citizens, which is the claim that started all of this mess.    Is advocating more paths to citizenship really caring about them more than regular citizens?  Or suggesting they should be able to purchase health insurance?  What is it, exactly, that indicates a genuine preference for them?  

What's the source on that....i can't zoom in. 

DMW

GATraveller said:

DMW said:

JohnInCarolina said:

 My own view is that these people mostly come here to better their lives and those of their family, number one, and that while there's a rejoinder for them to "get in line" the reality is that the line does not exist and that relatively few paths to legal citizenship are available to people who didn't happen to have the good fortune to simply be born here.  We rely on them, perhaps now more than ever, to process our meat, pick our fruits and vegetables, wash dishes, work a factory floor, etc.  I just think we should put their lives and stories in context rather than viewing them as lawless criminals.  This is especially true for the Dreamers who were brought here as very young children by their parents, who have come out of the shadows in exchange for us not deporting them, and are actually required to stay out of any kind of legal trouble to retain their DACA status.

I guess I would just like to understand the view that the "Democrat party" cares more about "illegal immigrants" than citizens, which is the claim that started all of this mess.    Is advocating more paths to citizenship really caring about them more than regular citizens?  Or suggesting they should be able to purchase health insurance?  What is it, exactly, that indicates a genuine preference for them?  

What's the source on that....i can't zoom in. 

Here you go:
https://immigrationroad.com/

Sea2Ski

I was fine not commenting on this thread, until a DFD shows up.  WTF? 

JohnInCarolina

Sea2Ski said:

I was fine not commenting on this thread, until a DFD shows up.  WTF? 

A Diagram From Dwayne?