The destruction of Cast Iron and all things Unholy - TOFTT

The Cen-Tex Smoker

20stone said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

looks that way. his site says $1250 and Amazon is $1500. Not sure if that includes prime though. still looking at it. I can go pick it up if I need to but probably easier to ship.

Sounds like you need a real truck (the kind with an outside hauling space).  You need one anyway to haul all that beef you'll be getting in Bastrop

That may work on our little brown friend but I am immune to your siren's call.

But I do need a truck...

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Focker said:

Is it cheaper going direct through karubecue?

same price on both. He's $1285 with $210 flat rate shipping. Amazon is $1500 free shipping. He said it's clearly better for him if you order from his site so take that for what it's worth. I can pick it up and save to $210 but probably not worth it for me.

Focker

My Chinese lunch omen just now with my bill.  Son read it to me.

blind99

Awesome! I've been interested in hearing more about the Karubeque for awhile. It'll be great to see how it stacks up side by side to the egg. 

Darby_Crenshaw

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Toxarch said:

blasting said:

I've got some obligations, so I decided to wrap in foil to get things moving.  

Here is what is left of the wood.  At first I thought it was just blackened, but in fact it's basically lump - very light and carbonized.  

I'm curious if those would light on fire or if there isn't enough hydrogen atoms left in it to burn.

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

CtTOPGUN said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I wonder if you couldn't light something like an A-Maze-N-Smoker in the ash bin under the fire grate and allow the smoke from that to come up through your lump. 

 That is what I suggested last thread. Personally, the Egg gives me enough smoke flavors to satisfy my tastes. But more is easily added.

  Jim

Great minds think alike

It gives plenty of smoke but it I'm more concerned with the quality of the smoke. smoldering wood over a low fire is not ideal for great q. It's serviceable and I've hit some home runs no doubt. Still- always chasing that thin blue smoke and that true offset flavor. you cant get that with smoldering chunks over a charcoal fire.

Isn't smoldering wood over hot coals the way every stick burner works? That's what most competitive BBQ cooks use.

no- the wood is fully ignited- no smoldering and the coals are wood coals, not carbonized lump. Huge difference. Also, the chemical make up of wood is totally different than lump. When 100% wood is your main fuel instead of a few chunks over lump it's a whole different ballgame. The fact that the egg is so well insulated actually creates a dirty, smoldering fire when you cook low and slow. I can cook for 18 hours and use .5 lb of wood and still have wood left in the lump when the cook is done. A stick burner would burn 5lbs an hour or more of just wood. That's where all the flavor comes from.

A clean fire (for the sake of bbq anyway) needs a lot of airflow and fully ignited fuel and to be burning at over 700 degrees. Plus wood is full of water and when that mixes with the aromatic compounds of the smoke and gasses, that's what creates that clean subtle smoke you can only get from burning wood instead of lump. 

When wood is fully ignited, you can barely see the smoke. It's clear. But when it starts to smolder, you get that thick white smoke that is full of creosote and other unsavory characters.

That's what this whole experiment is about, sending the smoke downward in to the lump to get the clean gasses you want without the creosote etc. That being said, you are still cooking over lump with a tiny bit of wood. Still an entirely different animal altogether form cooking with wood. 

These insulated cookers are all great and make it easy and you can sleep all night but by their very nature, they don't have clean fire (when cooking low and slow).  Wen you shut the draft door to 1/4" and shut the daisy down, you are starving your fire of oxygen. You cannot have a clean fire with restricted airflow. Are they good enough for almost everything that most people do? probably. I've sure enjoyed mine and made some great Q. But there is no question that a stick burner will turn out superior smoke flavor and it's not even close. But do you want to stay up all night and feed the beast every 20-30 minutes? That's what it takes to have a clean fire. 

you can have a small clean fire with limited airflow.  more air flow, the fire grows.  the fuel which isn't lit does not smolder.  but the fuel which is lit burns cleanly.

when you choke back a fire in the BGE you will get a smoldering fire, but only until it dies back to the smaller size.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Darby_Crenshaw said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Toxarch said:

blasting said:

I've got some obligations, so I decided to wrap in foil to get things moving.  

Here is what is left of the wood.  At first I thought it was just blackened, but in fact it's basically lump - very light and carbonized.  

I'm curious if those would light on fire or if there isn't enough hydrogen atoms left in it to burn.

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

CtTOPGUN said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I wonder if you couldn't light something like an A-Maze-N-Smoker in the ash bin under the fire grate and allow the smoke from that to come up through your lump. 

 That is what I suggested last thread. Personally, the Egg gives me enough smoke flavors to satisfy my tastes. But more is easily added.

  Jim

Great minds think alike

It gives plenty of smoke but it I'm more concerned with the quality of the smoke. smoldering wood over a low fire is not ideal for great q. It's serviceable and I've hit some home runs no doubt. Still- always chasing that thin blue smoke and that true offset flavor. you cant get that with smoldering chunks over a charcoal fire.

Isn't smoldering wood over hot coals the way every stick burner works? That's what most competitive BBQ cooks use.

no- the wood is fully ignited- no smoldering and the coals are wood coals, not carbonized lump. Huge difference. Also, the chemical make up of wood is totally different than lump. When 100% wood is your main fuel instead of a few chunks over lump it's a whole different ballgame. The fact that the egg is so well insulated actually creates a dirty, smoldering fire when you cook low and slow. I can cook for 18 hours and use .5 lb of wood and still have wood left in the lump when the cook is done. A stick burner would burn 5lbs an hour or more of just wood. That's where all the flavor comes from.

A clean fire (for the sake of bbq anyway) needs a lot of airflow and fully ignited fuel and to be burning at over 700 degrees. Plus wood is full of water and when that mixes with the aromatic compounds of the smoke and gasses, that's what creates that clean subtle smoke you can only get from burning wood instead of lump. 

When wood is fully ignited, you can barely see the smoke. It's clear. But when it starts to smolder, you get that thick white smoke that is full of creosote and other unsavory characters.

That's what this whole experiment is about, sending the smoke downward in to the lump to get the clean gasses you want without the creosote etc. That being said, you are still cooking over lump with a tiny bit of wood. Still an entirely different animal altogether form cooking with wood. 

These insulated cookers are all great and make it easy and you can sleep all night but by their very nature, they don't have clean fire (when cooking low and slow).  Wen you shut the draft door to 1/4" and shut the daisy down, you are starving your fire of oxygen. You cannot have a clean fire with restricted airflow. Are they good enough for almost everything that most people do? probably. I've sure enjoyed mine and made some great Q. But there is no question that a stick burner will turn out superior smoke flavor and it's not even close. But do you want to stay up all night and feed the beast every 20-30 minutes? That's what it takes to have a clean fire. 

you can have a small clean fire with limited airflow.  more air flow, the fire grows.  the fuel which isn't lit does not smolder.  but the fuel which is lit burns cleanly.

when you choke back a fire in the BGE you will get a smoldering fire, but only until it dies back to the smaller size.

was hoping you would chime in. I almost recited the candle anecdote but figured you could do it better than me. I think also in a small fire situation when you have wood chunks mixed in, many of them are on the periphery of the actual hot area so they smolder instead of ignite

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Focker said:

My Chinese lunch omen just now with my bill.  Son read it to me.

I've been telling my wife that for years. It does not work. Buy it.

Focker

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Focker said:

My Chinese lunch omen just now with my bill.  Son read it to me.

I've been telling my wife that for years. It does not work. Buy it.

Lmao!
The only dealbreakers for me are the constant babysitting and all the moving electrical parts.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Focker said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Focker said:

My Chinese lunch omen just now with my bill.  Son read it to me.

I've been telling my wife that for years. It does not work. Buy it.

Lmao!
The only dealbreakers for me are the constant babysitting and all the moving electrical parts.

I hear you but I have my eggs for when I don't want to do that. It cooks way faster than a BGE because it's a convection oven. The parts are super simple, cheap, and replaceable. It's a thermostat and a fan motor. $20-$30 to rebuild the whole thing. I'll risk it

HeavyG

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

HeavyG said:

Interesting thread. I recall reading about the cast iron smoke pot technique on another forum many moons ago. What was most entertaining was the somewhat lengthy discussion on the optimum size/arrangement/quantity of holes to drill in the bottom of the pot.

This idea is the driving force behind the way the Karubecue operates. As it turns out I just got my Karubecue a few weeks ago but life has intervened and prevented me from actually firing it up yet.

For my 60th birthday a few weeks ago I decided to get another cooker and was considering a number of options - a Lone Star Grillz vertical insulated cabinet, a Komodo Kamado, an interesting cooker called the Hephaestus, a Yoder YS640, or a Grillworks 26.

However, I had been reading about the Karubecue for a year or so and I was intrigued by the idea behind it and folks that use them rave about the smoke quality/finished results and I don't really need the capacity the other cookers offered. I'd never used a stick burner smoker before and I liked the idea of burning actual wood (thus avoiding all those tedious arguments over which is "the best" lump ).

So I decided to go with the Karubecue as a dedicated smoker. No grilling, no baking, no rotisserie-ing (since I can already do all those on my other cookers) - just a dedicated wood fired smoker.

Upthread there were a couple of questions regarding the Karubecue. One was a concern about feeding probe wires into the unit. You can do that thru the small openings at the corners of the main cook chamber. You do not want to try and feed them thru the door. The Karubecue is very well built with fairly tight tolerances and the front door seals and locks shut nicely. You could feed wires thru the door but it is not the suggested practice.

Smaller probes will feed thru the openings in the frame, however, the Type K probes I use are too large so I will be drilling a couple holes and mounting a couple stainless steel cable glands on the side of the cabinet so I can feed the probes thru those. Or not. Since the cook temp is thermostatically controlled I may just use  my instant read to probe occasionally. The Karubecue recovers temp quickly so popping the door open now and then isn' much of a concern.

To check the cooking chamber temp you don't need to feed a probe into the chamber. The control unit on top of the cook chamber has a probe hole near the exhaust fan so one can just put a probe or Thermopop or the like in that and check the exhaust gas temp.

Somebody else had asked about a drip pan. The designers method is to just let it drip onto the bottom of the main chamber and the grease will run to the front and drip out the small gaps in the corners of the frame and you place a drip pan there to collect the grease. Doesn't seem much different from big smokers I've seen that hang a bucket off a ball valve to collect grease as it flows from the cook chamber. Many people just stick a drip pan on the bottom of the cook chamber. I plan on doing it both ways depending upon what is being cooked.

Anyway, I hope to finally fire this baby up in the next couple of weeks and also, my apologies for hijacking the thread.

when are you firing that thing up? I talked to him last night- he's 4 weeks backordered but I want one bad. Please let me know how you like it but I might not wait that long. I've been looking for a manageable "stick" (twig?) burner for 2 years. This seems to be it for me. Portable, easy to use and I can just add another if I want more capacity. Still $1000 less that the pitmaker I was looking at if I get 2 of them.

Soon I hope. I've had some unexpected medical issues and hospital stays pop up the past few weeks but hope to get all that behind me in a couple more weeks. It's killing me seeing it just sitting out on my patio all nice and shiny and not being up to use it just yet.

I ordered mine from Amazon in early April and it gave an estimated delivery date of late May but the thing arrived in just a couple weeks. I wasn't even able to unbox it for a couple of weeks after it arrived because I didn't expect it to show up so soon.

I also had plans to use it in a slightly different configuration. One of my knees is a little wonky and the idea of keeping the KBQ at ground level and working with the shelves that low was a little too low for my liking. So I contacted Bill to get some dimensions and do some brainstorming. What I came up with was mounting it on a stainless steel prep table which I cut the legs down enough so the bottom of the cooker is elevated about 20" above grade. I also took the wheels off the KBQ so I could bolt it to the table. 

With it mounted to the table which is on 4" casters I can easily maneuver the whole thing around on my patio and can move it aside when not in use. I found a rain cover for a portable generator that fits over the cooking chamber perfectly (with the fire box removed) and will keep that over the chamber when it is not in use to prevent rain from getting in there and mixing with any grease in it and making a mess.

If I ever wanted/needed to take it somewhere sans table I can easily unbolt it from the table in 5 minutes and put the two wheels back on.

I'm stoked and can't wait to use it. The babysitting part does not bother me. In fact that is part of what attracted me - real flame laden logs (okay...baby logs in this case). I've been around/using kamados since the late 1960's so I thought it was finally time to add a little more involvement in my smoking.

Since the KBQ functions similarly  to a convection oven most folks are finding cooking times are actually quite a bit less than more traditional cookers. I'm mainly a pork (mostly baby backs), chicken, fish kinda guy so most of my cooks aren't going to be all that long anyway.

I've never had much interest in brisket so I have never cooked one but I am planning on doing some briskets. One fellow on another forum has been doing briskets combining sous vide with the KBQ. He smokes it on the KBQ until the brisket hits 140°F-ish then takes it out and lets it cool. Then he vac bags it and puts in in the hot tub at 190°F-ish for a few hours and then finishes it back in the KBQ for a couple or more hours to finish it off. Using the sous vide step he avoids many hours of having to be home and stoking the fire. His results have looked mighty impressive. I'm looking forward to trying that technique but I'm also wanting to do one strictly in the KBQ.

Focker

The more I think about it, the more I'm content with the bullet and FB.  I'm on board with the science.  Questioning whether the extra work will produce a discernable difference in end product.

And the guru experience I have weathered, has left an impact when it comes to pit electronics, durability, and trust.  

I too, have no interest in brisket, so that narrows it down.  Quite simply, it doesn't fill a void in my current lineup.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy staying up late by the campfire getting buzzed occasionally when fall camping, one hour hikes to my tree with 60 plus lbs of gear on my back, setting up and tearing down my highwall pup every flight.  
The older, smarter, and more worn out I get....helping people with these same issues as we age, all of that will eventually fade with the MuthaFockin' wind.  All I can do is have fun enjoying it now.  I guess if I was retarded..err I mean retired, the babysitting may be warranted.  But I truly enjoy a restful sleep on an overnighter.

Look forward to reviews, trials, tribulations.
I'm not 100% ruling one out, but getting  closer.  

Legume

Has anyone with a two-egg + dryer vent cold smoking setup just tried running with a hotter/cleaner smoke wood fire in the feeder egg, or combine that with a small lump fire in the main egg that the smoke would pass through?

YukonRon

Just a large soup can filled with smoking wood, and an old soldering iron under a pan of ice which has a grate on top of the pan holding the mushrooms and other things I cold smoke. I actually do it in the Weber. Works great.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Legume said:

Has anyone with a two-egg + dryer vent cold smoking setup just tried running with a hotter/cleaner smoke wood fire in the feeder egg, or combine that with a small lump fire in the main egg that the smoke would pass through?

A maze n smoker. So easy and produces nice smoke wit no heat. $30. 

Legume

Sorry, I wasn't so clear.  I do have an A maze n smoker.  I meant to produce more smoke at a hotter temp - like brisket temps, not cold smoking.  Either cleaner smoke from a hotter fire in the smaller egg, or run dirtier smoke through a burning fire in the big egg.

DMW

Legume said:

Sorry, I wasn't so clear.  I do have an A maze n smoker.  I meant to produce more smoke at a hotter temp - like brisket temps, not cold smoking.  Either cleaner smoke from a hotter fire in the smaller egg, or run dirtier smoke through a burning fire in the big egg.

Create an offset smoker by using two eggs, one for the firebox, one for the cooking chamber. Interesting idea.

Legume

Yes that, or pass the smoke through another fire - like the drilling holes in CI thing.

blasting

Ok,  got the skillet in, heating up while burning off the voc of a fresh load of RW.   Prepping butt #2 now.   We'll see if this makes any difference.

If I can make it to RD tomorrow, I'll pick up butt #3 and try @The Cen-Tex Smoker idea of putting amazing smoker in the ash area tomorrow night.  That will be 3 butts in 3 days!  That's a lot for just my daughter and me.  If I don't do something "beefy" on the weekend she's gonna revolt!

Anyway, fun experiment, even if we just find out what makes no difference.

BTW, @The Cen-Tex Smoker - have fun with your new smoker!

blasting

whoops.  While posting the egg climbed to 900 degrees.  Rookie mistake, and I'm not waiting for it cool down, so butt #2 will go on tomorrow.

Toxarch

How about making a taller "bin" (?) for the wood chunks to go in on the Karubeque? Then you could load it up with more wood and have to babysit it less.

blind99

@heavyg thanks for posting all the insight. Hope you feel well enough to try the new smoker soon!

@legume you might be able to run cold smoke into the main egg, with the heating fire in the main egg. the one time I let the heat go up in the small egg it burned up the dryer vent!

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Toxarch said:

How about making a taller "bin" (?) for the wood chunks to go in on the Karubeque? Then you could load it up with more wood and have to babysit it less.

I talked to him about that and he's played with it. He says that there is no way to keep the fire from engulfing the whole stack. He's put some serious thought in to this whole deal. Everything is the way it is for a reason. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Well- the deed is done. I am a proud new owner of a Karubecue. Should be here in 3-4 weeks. Can't wait to fire it up. I'll let you know how it works out.

20stone

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Well- the deed is done. I am a proud new owner of a Karubecue. Should be here in 3-4 weeks. Can't wait to fire it up. I'll let you know how it works out.

I gotta guy that will cut custom size sticks for you.  I'll grab the contact info tonight

blasting

The thread has fizzled, but I said I was doing a second test, so here are the results.  

Again the wood in the pan carbonized completely and broke apart in my hand.  The difference with this attempt was I put the skillet in while heating up the lump.  The pork came out delicious, but absolutely no different than using smoke wood mixed with the lump.  As far as I'm concerned, I'm calling it Myth Busted.  Point of interest, there was very little pink color the meat with both of these tests.

On an unrelated note, if anyone has the need for a skillet with lid that has 3 small holes in the bottom and no handle to open the lid... I have a deal for you.

Fun experiment, thanks everyone for input and comments.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

20stone said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Well- the deed is done. I am a proud new owner of a Karubecue. Should be here in 3-4 weeks. Can't wait to fire it up. I'll let you know how it works out.

I gotta guy that will cut custom size sticks for you.  I'll grab the contact info tonight

Thanks. Sounds expensive...like every other guy you have.

20stone

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

20stone said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Well- the deed is done. I am a proud new owner of a Karubecue. Should be here in 3-4 weeks. Can't wait to fire it up. I'll let you know how it works out.

I gotta guy that will cut custom size sticks for you.  I'll grab the contact info tonight

Thanks. Sounds expensive...like every other guy you have.

Not so bad.... and I know you are too damn lazy to split a bunch of wood to "bigger than a Red Bull, smaller than a brick"

Focker

Good news CT.  I'm still on the fence, but may cave in come review time.  I can already smell the Berkwood bacon on the KBQ. Recently put up a Suncast shed with a sliding roof, a perfect place to store it with the 22 WSM.  The KBQ would make it a dirty dozen, far beyond professional help.  And it would be the closest I would get to a stickburner.  Looking forward to your input.  I do think this may shine on the low and slow smokes up to shoulder.  And that task would be dedicated to the WSMs, with a nice sized drip pan to collect all the grease.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

I'll keep you posted. I'm pretty fired up about it. I've always wanted a portable stick burner but no trailer. At 100lbs this thing is perfect for me. I can go play around at local comps or do some catering gigs without dropping $5k on a trailer setup.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

dirty dozen???? Dang. I just have 2 eggs and a jumbo joe for camping. I'm well within the "normal" range