The destruction of Cast Iron and all things Unholy - TOFTT

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Toxarch said:

blasting said:

I've got some obligations, so I decided to wrap in foil to get things moving.  

Here is what is left of the wood.  At first I thought it was just blackened, but in fact it's basically lump - very light and carbonized.  

I'm curious if those would light on fire or if there isn't enough hydrogen atoms left in it to burn.

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

CtTOPGUN said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I wonder if you couldn't light something like an A-Maze-N-Smoker in the ash bin under the fire grate and allow the smoke from that to come up through your lump. 

 That is what I suggested last thread. Personally, the Egg gives me enough smoke flavors to satisfy my tastes. But more is easily added.

  Jim

Great minds think alike

It gives plenty of smoke but it I'm more concerned with the quality of the smoke. smoldering wood over a low fire is not ideal for great q. It's serviceable and I've hit some home runs no doubt. Still- always chasing that thin blue smoke and that true offset flavor. you cant get that with smoldering chunks over a charcoal fire.

Isn't smoldering wood over hot coals the way every stick burner works? That's what most competitive BBQ cooks use.

no- the wood is fully ignited- no smoldering and the coals are wood coals, not carbonized lump. Huge difference. Also, the chemical make up of wood is totally different than lump. When 100% wood is your main fuel instead of a few chunks over lump it's a whole different ballgame. The fact that the egg is so well insulated actually creates a dirty, smoldering fire when you cook low and slow. I can cook for 18 hours and use .5 lb of wood and still have wood left in the lump when the cook is done. A stick burner would burn 5lbs an hour or more of just wood. That's where all the flavor comes from.

A clean fire (for the sake of bbq anyway) needs a lot of airflow and fully ignited fuel and to be burning at over 700 degrees. Plus wood is full of water and when that mixes with the aromatic compounds of the smoke and gasses, that's what creates that clean subtle smoke you can only get from burning wood instead of lump. 

When wood is fully ignited, you can barely see the smoke. It's clear. But when it starts to smolder, you get that thick white smoke that is full of creosote and other unsavory characters.

That's what this whole experiment is about, sending the smoke downward in to the lump to get the clean gasses you want without the creosote etc. That being said, you are still cooking over lump with a tiny bit of wood. Still an entirely different animal altogether form cooking with wood. 

These insulated cookers are all great and make it easy and you can sleep all night but by their very nature, they don't have clean fire (when cooking low and slow).  Wen you shut the draft door to 1/4" and shut the daisy down, you are starving your fire of oxygen. You cannot have a clean fire with restricted airflow. Are they good enough for almost everything that most people do? probably. I've sure enjoyed mine and made some great Q. But there is no question that a stick burner will turn out superior smoke flavor and it's not even close. But do you want to stay up all night and feed the beast every 20-30 minutes? That's what it takes to have a clean fire. 

Focker

Stickburners are an orgy of nutty lactons, for your meat.
Black box being the blue pill, to try and help the little egg that couldn't.

20stone

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

These insulated cookers are all great and make it easy and you can sleep all night but by their very nature, they don't have clean fire (when cooking low and slow).  Wen you shut the draft door to 1/4" and shut the daisy down, you are starving your fire of oxygen. You cannot have a clean fire with restricted airflow. Are they good enough for almost everything that most people do? probably. I've sure enjoyed mine and made some great Q. But there is no question that a stick burner will turn out superior smoke flavor and it's not even close. But do you want to stay up all night and feed the beast every 20-30 minutes? That's what it takes to have a clean fire. 

Agreed.

The deciding factor in getting a LBGE for me back in the day over an offset was that I wanted to cook more often than I would be willing to stay up all night babysitting a fire.

My favorite Houston guys, Blood Brothers BBQ, just took delivery of a Pitmaker trailer that includes a horizontal vault, that they run partially with sticks.  

https://instagram.com/p/BFhl7HLg-EP/embed/

It made really good Q, too.

I like the Karubeque concept.  One nit is that they don't appear to accommodate thermometer wires through the door seal.  From the videos, it looks like they have a precision metal to metal fit, instead of having fiber that can deflect a little to handle the thermo lead.  I would also be curious what they have for a dripping drain. 

smokeyw

I agree that a stick burner is a much cleaner fire than any smoker where you have to restrict the air to maintain temps. However, I'm not sure that it will produce a more superior smoke flavor. I cook in competitions and have seen many, stick burner cooks beaten by cooks using gravity feed vertical smokers which you have to restrict the air on to maintain the temp. In fact most contests are probably not won by stick burners today. There are still quite a few and I know some that do very well with them but there are more vertical smokers today.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

20stone said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

These insulated cookers are all great and make it easy and you can sleep all night but by their very nature, they don't have clean fire (when cooking low and slow).  Wen you shut the draft door to 1/4" and shut the daisy down, you are starving your fire of oxygen. You cannot have a clean fire with restricted airflow. Are they good enough for almost everything that most people do? probably. I've sure enjoyed mine and made some great Q. But there is no question that a stick burner will turn out superior smoke flavor and it's not even close. But do you want to stay up all night and feed the beast every 20-30 minutes? That's what it takes to have a clean fire. 

Agreed.

The deciding factor in getting a LBGE for me back in the day over an offset was that I wanted to cook more often than I would be willing to stay up all night babysitting a fire.

My favorite Houston guys, Blood Brothers BBQ, just took delivery of a Pitmaker trailer that includes a horizontal vault, that they run partially with sticks.  

https://instagram.com/p/BFhl7HLg-EP/embed/

It made really good Q, too.

I like the Karubeque concept.  One nit is that they don't appear to accommodate thermometer wires through the door seal.  From the videos, it looks like they have a precision metal to metal fit, instead of having fiber that can deflect a little to handle the thermo lead.  I would also be curious what they have for a dripping drain. 

There are port holes in the side now for thermo wires.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

smokeyw said:

I agree that a stick burner is a much cleaner fire than any smoker where you have to restrict the air to maintain temps. However, I'm not sure that it will produce a more superior smoke flavor. I cook in competitions and have seen many, stick burner cooks beaten by cooks using gravity feed vertical smokers which you have to restrict the air on to maintain the temp. In fact most contests are probably not won by stick burners today. There are still quite a few and I know some that do very well with them but there are more vertical smokers today.

Gravity fed are some of the best when it comes to a very hot fire in a small area. That is the whole reason they came about- to have complete combustion even though the fire is small. Verticals are great too but that does not change the science behind clean fire and that's all i'm looking for.

I'm not a comp guy but I don't judge good bbq by who wins competitions. If someone were to put peach preserves on my ribs at Franklins i would punch them in the face.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

20stone said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

These insulated cookers are all great and make it easy and you can sleep all night but by their very nature, they don't have clean fire (when cooking low and slow).  Wen you shut the draft door to 1/4" and shut the daisy down, you are starving your fire of oxygen. You cannot have a clean fire with restricted airflow. Are they good enough for almost everything that most people do? probably. I've sure enjoyed mine and made some great Q. But there is no question that a stick burner will turn out superior smoke flavor and it's not even close. But do you want to stay up all night and feed the beast every 20-30 minutes? That's what it takes to have a clean fire. 

Agreed.

The deciding factor in getting a LBGE for me back in the day over an offset was that I wanted to cook more often than I would be willing to stay up all night babysitting a fire.

My favorite Houston guys, Blood Brothers BBQ, just took delivery of a Pitmaker trailer that includes a horizontal vault, that they run partially with sticks.  

https://instagram.com/p/BFhl7HLg-EP/embed/

It made really good Q, too.

I like the Karubeque concept.  One nit is that they don't appear to accommodate thermometer wires through the door seal.  From the videos, it looks like they have a precision metal to metal fit, instead of having fiber that can deflect a little to handle the thermo lead.  I would also be curious what they have for a dripping drain. 

sweet rig! they finally stepped up. 

From what I have read the karubecue has a crap drain system. You really need to put a hotel pan in the bottom or it will leak out. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

smokeyw said:

I agree that a stick burner is a much cleaner fire than any smoker where you have to restrict the air to maintain temps. However, I'm not sure that it will produce a more superior smoke flavor. I cook in competitions and have seen many, stick burner cooks beaten by cooks using gravity feed vertical smokers which you have to restrict the air on to maintain the temp. In fact most contests are probably not won by stick burners today. There are still quite a few and I know some that do very well with them but there are more vertical smokers today.

Gravity fed are some of the best when it comes to a very hot fire in a small area. That is the whole reason they came about- to have complete combustion even though the fire is small. Verticals are great too but that does not change the science behind clean fire and that's all i'm looking for.

I'm not a comp guy but I don't judge good bbq by who wins competitions. If someone were to put peach preserves on my ribs at Franklins i would punch them in the face.

I'm not saying the cooks are not talented- I'm saying that BBQ as food is different than bbq in comps. Different beast altogether.

smokeyw

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

smokeyw said:

I agree that a stick burner is a much cleaner fire than any smoker where you have to restrict the air to maintain temps. However, I'm not sure that it will produce a more superior smoke flavor. I cook in competitions and have seen many, stick burner cooks beaten by cooks using gravity feed vertical smokers which you have to restrict the air on to maintain the temp. In fact most contests are probably not won by stick burners today. There are still quite a few and I know some that do very well with them but there are more vertical smokers today.

Gravity fed are some of the best when it comes to a very hot fire in a small area. That is the whole reason they came about- to have complete combustion even though the fire is small. Verticals are great too but that does not change the science behind clean fire and that's all i'm looking for.

I'm not a comp guy but I don't judge good bbq by who wins competitions. If someone were to put peach preserves on my ribs at Franklins i would punch them in the face.

Good food is good food. I don't care what it is cooked on. My analogy was only made because I don't think you necessarily have to have a hot fire to have good smoke flavor. However, I do believe you have to have clean smoke.

20stone

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

From what I have read the karubecue has a crap drain system. You really need to put a hotel pan in the bottom or it will leak out. 

Do you think that it would benefit from a water pan as well?  If so, maybe you just stick a hotel pan with water in the very bottom to serve both purposes.

Photo Egg

smokeyw said:

Toxarch said:

blasting said:

I've got some obligations, so I decided to wrap in foil to get things moving.  

Here is what is left of the wood.  At first I thought it was just blackened, but in fact it's basically lump - very light and carbonized.  

I'm curious if those would light on fire or if there isn't enough hydrogen atoms left in it to burn.

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

CtTOPGUN said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I wonder if you couldn't light something like an A-Maze-N-Smoker in the ash bin under the fire grate and allow the smoke from that to come up through your lump. 

 That is what I suggested last thread. Personally, the Egg gives me enough smoke flavors to satisfy my tastes. But more is easily added.

  Jim

Great minds think alike

It gives plenty of smoke but it I'm more concerned with the quality of the smoke. smoldering wood over a low fire is not ideal for great q. It's serviceable and I've hit some home runs no doubt. Still- always chasing that thin blue smoke and that true offset flavor. you cant get that with smoldering chunks over a charcoal fire.

Isn't smoldering wood over hot coals the way every stick burner works? That's what most competitive BBQ cooks use.

Actually, some cooks with offset stick burners use smoldering wood. However, one very famous pitmaster I know (4 world championships) builds a very small and hot fire in his offset. He never closes the door and you usually don't even see any smoke. He or his one team member sit in front of the door on the firebox continuously maintaining the fire.

Agree.
I have a small custom off set and was taught to always keep a little flame going with the wood. The goal was to NOT have smoldering wood creating smoke in the fire box. The smoke flavor from my little stick burner always seemed cleaner, less bitter than my other cookers.

blasting

I tried the pork again last night.  Very good, but not much smoke flavor - less than usual.  In thinking about this, I may have screwed up.  I filled up with Rockwood, and lit it.  I let it burn for about an hour, then I put the skillet on with the food.

I didn't think much of it, but about 2.5 hours into the actual cook, white smoke started for a while.  I'm thinking I should have put the skillet in to heat up with the lump, in order for the butt to get smoke right from the beginning.  However, if that white smoke was the smoldering of the smoke wood, that was not the goal anyway.

In any case, I will put another butt on this afternoon, and give this another fair try before calling it busted.

CtTOPGUN

 Just curious...

 Has anyone actually measured the temp of the burning lump in various spots? I am not convinced it is a "low" fire. I would think it would be real hot, just small due to restricting airflow. (as long as you started a small fire to begin with)

    Jim

Focker

blasting said:

I tried the pork again last night.  Very good, but not much smoke flavor - less than usual.  In thinking about this, I may have screwed up.  I filled up with Rockwood, and lit it.  I let it burn for about an hour, then I put the skillet on with the food.

I didn't think much of it, but about 2.5 hours into the actual cook, white smoke started for a while.  I'm thinking I should have put the skillet in to heat up with the lump, in order for the butt to get smoke right from the beginning.  However, if that white smoke was the smoldering of the smoke wood, that was not the goal anyway.

In any case, I will put another butt on this afternoon, and give this another fair try before calling it busted.

I don't think you screwed up at all.
Not sure what you are looking for bud?  
It is a much milder, sweeter, cleaner smoke.  
Also, not sure if a pork butt is the best canvas.

HeavyG

Interesting thread. I recall reading about the cast iron smoke pot technique on another forum many moons ago. What was most entertaining was the somewhat lengthy discussion on the optimum size/arrangement/quantity of holes to drill in the bottom of the pot.

This idea is the driving force behind the way the Karubecue operates. As it turns out I just got my Karubecue a few weeks ago but life has intervened and prevented me from actually firing it up yet.

For my 60th birthday a few weeks ago I decided to get another cooker and was considering a number of options - a Lone Star Grillz vertical insulated cabinet, a Komodo Kamado, an interesting cooker called the Hephaestus, a Yoder YS640, or a Grillworks 26.

However, I had been reading about the Karubecue for a year or so and I was intrigued by the idea behind it and folks that use them rave about the smoke quality/finished results and I don't really need the capacity the other cookers offered. I'd never used a stick burner smoker before and I liked the idea of burning actual wood (thus avoiding all those tedious arguments over which is "the best" lump ).

So I decided to go with the Karubecue as a dedicated smoker. No grilling, no baking, no rotisserie-ing (since I can already do all those on my other cookers) - just a dedicated wood fired smoker.

Upthread there were a couple of questions regarding the Karubecue. One was a concern about feeding probe wires into the unit. You can do that thru the small openings at the corners of the main cook chamber. You do not want to try and feed them thru the door. The Karubecue is very well built with fairly tight tolerances and the front door seals and locks shut nicely. You could feed wires thru the door but it is not the suggested practice.

Smaller probes will feed thru the openings in the frame, however, the Type K probes I use are too large so I will be drilling a couple holes and mounting a couple stainless steel cable glands on the side of the cabinet so I can feed the probes thru those. Or not. Since the cook temp is thermostatically controlled I may just use  my instant read to probe occasionally. The Karubecue recovers temp quickly so popping the door open now and then isn' much of a concern.

To check the cooking chamber temp you don't need to feed a probe into the chamber. The control unit on top of the cook chamber has a probe hole near the exhaust fan so one can just put a probe or Thermopop or the like in that and check the exhaust gas temp.

Somebody else had asked about a drip pan. The designers method is to just let it drip onto the bottom of the main chamber and the grease will run to the front and drip out the small gaps in the corners of the frame and you place a drip pan there to collect the grease. Doesn't seem much different from big smokers I've seen that hang a bucket off a ball valve to collect grease as it flows from the cook chamber. Many people just stick a drip pan on the bottom of the cook chamber. I plan on doing it both ways depending upon what is being cooked.

Anyway, I hope to finally fire this baby up in the next couple of weeks and also, my apologies for hijacking the thread.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

smokeyw said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

smokeyw said:

I agree that a stick burner is a much cleaner fire than any smoker where you have to restrict the air to maintain temps. However, I'm not sure that it will produce a more superior smoke flavor. I cook in competitions and have seen many, stick burner cooks beaten by cooks using gravity feed vertical smokers which you have to restrict the air on to maintain the temp. In fact most contests are probably not won by stick burners today. There are still quite a few and I know some that do very well with them but there are more vertical smokers today.

Gravity fed are some of the best when it comes to a very hot fire in a small area. That is the whole reason they came about- to have complete combustion even though the fire is small. Verticals are great too but that does not change the science behind clean fire and that's all i'm looking for.

I'm not a comp guy but I don't judge good bbq by who wins competitions. If someone were to put peach preserves on my ribs at Franklins i would punch them in the face.

Good food is good food. I don't care what it is cooked on. My analogy was only made because I don't think you necessarily have to have a hot fire to have good smoke flavor. However, I do believe you have to have clean smoke.

I will be the first to admit that I am only regurgitating things I have read on the itnerweb but i've read a lot. See if you can find Dr. Blonder's video on clean smoke. It's on the paid section of Amazing ribs but it may have made it's way to the masses by now. It may not change your mind and I'm not trying to either. You seem interested in this stuff so I'm guessing you will at least enjoy watching it. I think I still have a paid subscription over there. If I do I'll find a way to share it with you if you are interested. It changed my whole world view on BGE's and smoke and fire in general.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

HeavyG said:

Interesting thread. I recall reading about the cast iron smoke pot technique on another forum many moons ago. What was most entertaining was the somewhat lengthy discussion on the optimum size/arrangement/quantity of holes to drill in the bottom of the pot.

This idea is the driving force behind the way the Karubecue operates. As it turns out I just got my Karubecue a few weeks ago but life has intervened and prevented me from actually firing it up yet.

For my 60th birthday a few weeks ago I decided to get another cooker and was considering a number of options - a Lone Star Grillz vertical insulated cabinet, a Komodo Kamado, an interesting cooker called the Hephaestus, a Yoder YS640, or a Grillworks 26.

However, I had been reading about the Karubecue for a year or so and I was intrigued by the idea behind it and folks that use them rave about the smoke quality/finished results and I don't really need the capacity the other cookers offered. I'd never used a stick burner smoker before and I liked the idea of burning actual wood (thus avoiding all those tedious arguments over which is "the best" lump ).

So I decided to go with the Karubecue as a dedicated smoker. No grilling, no baking, no rotisserie-ing (since I can already do all those on my other cookers) - just a dedicated wood fired smoker.

Upthread there were a couple of questions regarding the Karubecue. One was a concern about feeding probe wires into the unit. You can do that thru the small openings at the corners of the main cook chamber. You do not want to try and feed them thru the door. The Karubecue is very well built with fairly tight tolerances and the front door seals and locks shut nicely. You could feed wires thru the door but it is not the suggested practice.

Smaller probes will feed thru the openings in the frame, however, the Type K probes I use are too large so I will be drilling a couple holes and mounting a couple stainless steel cable glands on the side of the cabinet so I can feed the probes thru those. Or not. Since the cook temp is thermostatically controlled I may just use  my instant read to probe occasionally. The Karubecue recovers temp quickly so popping the door open now and then isn' much of a concern.

To check the cooking chamber temp you don't need to feed a probe into the chamber. The control unit on top of the cook chamber has a probe hole near the exhaust fan so one can just put a probe or Thermopop or the like in that and check the exhaust gas temp.

Somebody else had asked about a drip pan. The designers method is to just let it drip onto the bottom of the main chamber and the grease will run to the front and drip out the small gaps in the corners of the frame and you place a drip pan there to collect the grease. Doesn't seem much different from big smokers I've seen that hang a bucket off a ball valve to collect grease as it flows from the cook chamber. Many people just stick a drip pan on the bottom of the cook chamber. I plan on doing it both ways depending upon what is being cooked.

Anyway, I hope to finally fire this baby up in the next couple of weeks and also, my apologies for hijacking the thread.

when are you firing that thing up? I talked to him last night- he's 4 weeks backordered but I want one bad. Please let me know how you like it but I might not wait that long. I've been looking for a manageable "stick" (twig?) burner for 2 years. This seems to be it for me. Portable, easy to use and I can just add another if I want more capacity. Still $1000 less that the pitmaker I was looking at if I get 2 of them.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

20stone said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

From what I have read the karubecue has a crap drain system. You really need to put a hotel pan in the bottom or it will leak out. 

Do you think that it would benefit from a water pan as well?  If so, maybe you just stick a hotel pan with water in the very bottom to serve both purposes.

check out all the reviews on Amazon. There are many and answers most of the questions. Some awesome pics too. Whole hog (cut up), 3 pig heads, 4 hanging briskets, all kinds of stuff. It's mostly fanboys but they are all owners and have good insight

The Cen-Tex Smoker

just got the final "green light" (the eye roll and "whatever"). Ordering today. Hells to tha yeah!

Focker

That's awesome CT!  I'm not far behind, and will pull the trigger soon.
I need to block this Fockin site. Lol 

Focker

Is it cheaper going direct through karubecue?

Legume

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

just got the final "green light" (the eye roll and "whatever"). Ordering today. Hells to tha yeah!

Will it fit a 30lb brisket?

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Focker said:

Is it cheaper going direct through karubecue?

looks that way. his site says $1250 and Amazon is $1500. Not sure if that includes prime though. still looking at it. I can go pick it up if I need to but probably easier to ship.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Legume said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

just got the final "green light" (the eye roll and "whatever"). Ordering today. Hells to tha yeah!

Will it fit a 30lb brisket?

no but I don't have that many friends

Focker

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Focker said:

Is it cheaper going direct through karubecue?

looks that way. his site says $1250 and Amazon is $1500. Not sure if that includes prime though. still looking at it. I can go pick it up if I need to but probably easier to ship.

For me in IL, amazon is best.

How low can the temp go?

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Focker said:

That's awesome CT!  I'm not far behind, and will pull the trigger soon.
I need to block this Fockin site. Lol 

me too. I'm usually on the giving end when it comes to costing people money on here but I am being paid back in buckets lately. Like being on a roll in Vegas- you know the tide will eventually turn. I should have left the tables long ago. Damnit.

SmokeyPitt

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Focker said:

That's awesome CT!  I'm not far behind, and will pull the trigger soon.
I need to block this Fockin site. Lol 

me too. I'm usually on the giving end when it comes to costing people money on here but I am being paid back in buckets lately. Like being on a roll in Vegas- you know the tide will eventually turn. I should have left the tables long ago. Damnit.

It is funny how this evolved from sacrificing a $30 Lodge skillet to a $1300 smoker in only 3 pages. 

Focker

The nonrusting, lightweight, and smaller footprint is great.  ****, my small with table weighs over 100.
Mobility with the camper taking up the hitch.
I'm sold.

20stone

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

looks that way. his site says $1250 and Amazon is $1500. Not sure if that includes prime though. still looking at it. I can go pick it up if I need to but probably easier to ship.

Sounds like you need a real truck (the kind with an outside hauling space).  You need one anyway to haul all that beef you'll be getting in Bastrop

The Cen-Tex Smoker

SmokeyPitt said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Focker said:

That's awesome CT!  I'm not far behind, and will pull the trigger soon.
I need to block this Fockin site. Lol 

me too. I'm usually on the giving end when it comes to costing people money on here but I am being paid back in buckets lately. Like being on a roll in Vegas- you know the tide will eventually turn. I should have left the tables long ago. Damnit.

It is funny how this evolved from sacrificing a $30 Lodge skillet to a $1300 smoker in only 3 pages. 

so true. damnit. I will say I've been looking for 2 years but...