water in Flint, MI

Canugghead

Hey @Fred19Flintstone what's going on? hope you guys are okay.

Fred19Flintstone

I live outside the city so it's never been an issue at home.  I work in Flint and always drank bottled water and brought my coffee in a thermos brewed at home. For some reason nobody liked my coffee.  Could it be the five scoops I use?  My daughter attends The University of Michigan in Flint so she has the same issues.  I make sure she has a bottle of water to take with her each day.

Fellas, this is an unbelievably bad situation.  The water in the city used to come from the City of Detroit.  It's good water, but Flint was teetering on bankruptcy and Detroit's water is expensive.  The State had control of Flint's finances due to the financial emergency and decided to join a new water system to save money.  The problem is the new system is still 2-3 years from completion.  So they decided to get water from the Flint River in the meantime.  The river water corroded the old pipes and lead leached into the water.  Flint has since switched back to Detroit's water which improved the quality, but the damage has already been done and there is still lead in the water in many areas of the city.  The old infrastructure is toast.

i will never forget the day Flint switched to the river water.  I went to the can at work and walked into the stall.  The water in the bowl was brown.  Thinking the previous crap didn't totally wash out, I flushed the bowl.  The water again was brown.  Disgusting.

Fred19Flintstone

The blame game is in full swing.  The state was in control of the finances and made the "suggestion" to city council to make the switch to the river water.  While I don't think any criminal element was involved, there is a liability to be shouldered at the state and city levels.  The city is supposed to ensure the water quality is good and that didn't happen.  In a surprising twist I heard, the EPA knew back in April that the water was contaminated, but the citizenry were not notified.  So the Feds are involved too.  What a freaking mess!

Canugghead

Wow! thanks for sharing your first hand experience. We take so many things for granted until we lose it.

Canugghead

Just finished reading an article in our local paper, no matter what they do going forward, can't imagine what irreversible damages health-wise are already done!

Sardonicus

The important thing to remember is that the change in water sourcing was a cost-saving measure and kept hard-working taxpayers from paying for the health and welfare of lazy takers!

JohnInCarolina

Sardonicus said:

The important thing to remember is that the change in water sourcing was a cost-saving measure and kept hard-working taxpayers from paying for the health and welfare of lazy takers!

What could possibly go wrong?!?!?

Sardonicus

The water in Flint, Michigan is just fine.
Mayor Walling proved that.  Scientifically.



(Note:  Unlike Governor Rick Snyder, Mayor Dayne Walling is a Democrat, proving yet again that assholeosity is a non-partisan affliction.)

Fred19Flintstone

I shoor m glad I got me sum xpert anal-isis frum 1000 miles away fer free!

evie1370

Mr Evie and I were ranting/talking about this yesterday. There is no reason on this earth, in this country, in the 21st Century that anyone should be subjected to lead in the drinking water. Agree with previous comments that the health affects will be felt for quite some time. And of course those responsible will never pay a price. Reprehensible!

JohnInCarolina

Fred19Flintstone said:

I shoor m glad I got me sum xpert anal-isis frum 1000 miles away fer free!

We've been wondering what's wrong with you for awhile now, Fred.  Now it's clear that you've just been drinking the water in Michigan.  I'm sorry for your loss of brain capacity.

Sardonicus

Fred19Flintstone said:

I shoor m glad I got me sum xpert anal-isis frum 1000 miles away fer free!

Fortunately, one needn't be knee-deep in a steaming pile of crap to properly identify the stench.  
(If you/others require proximity for comprehension and "anal-isis", know that most don't.)
  

Fred19Flintstone

John why don't you shut yer pie-hole?  It's awful easy to do your Monday morning quarterbacking throw insults and make disparaging remarks from 1000 miles away.  We are living the problem here.  I'm not sure why you feel you have to tear others down to build yourself up.  It's a douchey thing to do.

HeavyG

The EPA got involved about a year ago warning them about this problem but the state officials basically told them to buzz off.

State/local officials lied about testing data more than a year ago in order to avoid publicizing a problem they were fully aware of. It's quite likely some folks will be prosecuted for that deception now that the U.S. Attorneys office is getting involved.

I always love the irony of folks like Gov. Snyder who came into office during the Tea Party fever of 2010 running to the federal government for help. On the other hand Michigan Congresscritter Justin Amash, another Republican who came into office in 2010 riding the same Tea Party train, has said that he opposes federal aid for Flint. He said that "the U.S. Constitution does not authorize the federal government to intervene in an intrastate matter like this one". My guess is he'll be changing his tune before long.

JohnInCarolina

Fred19Flintstone said:

John why don't you shut yer pie-hole?  It's awful easy to do your Monday morning quarterbacking throw insults and make disparaging remarks from 1000 miles away.  We are living the problem here.  I'm not sure why you feel you have to tear others down to build yourself up.  It's a douchey thing to do.

  I'm just giving you the business Fred.  

Homebrewguy

It wasn't Tea Party fever that elected Governor Snyder.  It was a the failures of the prior governor and the terrible economic position she put that state in and the failed leadership of several cities in the state as well.

MelSharples

Save it for Friday guys/gals...

gerhardk

Google "Walkerton Ontario Water".  Quite a few people died from contaminated water the result of cost savings by our conservative common sense revolution.  The water testing use to be done by a provincial lab but to save a few dollars they out sourced it to a private lab but they forgot to tell them that if they found the water to be contaminated to call the Ministry of the Environment, the rest is history.

Gerhard

kl8ton

People in west Michigan collected water for the folks in Flint:

http://woodtv.com/2016/01/16/gr-water-drive-collects-more-than-1k-cases-for-flint-residents/

YukonRon

Yet, those that were in the military, during humanitarian missions, escorting those who would haul in fresh water, and water treatment plants, at risk of death, just to watch them get destroyed within hours of establishing them. Yet we will not step up for our own citizens, humanitarily, or legally.

nolaegghead

Give the Republicans a break.   Even Rick Perry didn't want to get rid of the EPA.

nolaegghead

http://youtu.be/rQX2lwKS3Pg

JohnInCarolina

A piece on the emails that were released is pretty damning:

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/21/10804970/flint-water-crisis-snyder-emails

Sardonicus

JohnInCarolina said:

A piece on the emails that were released is pretty damning:

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/21/10804970/flint-water-crisis-snyder-emails

I "shoor" hope you didn't get that info "frum 1000 miles away"!
  

Sardonicus

Since these guys are NOT "frum 1000 miles away", they must be right.
  

GOP lead-poisoning truthers say Flint water crisis ‘vastly overstated’ — and might even be ’a hoax’

TRAVIS GETTYS
20 JAN 2016 AT 09:45 ET                   

L. Brooks Patterson (WJBK)

A Michigan Republican suggested that Flint’s water crisis wasn’t all that bad — and might even be a hoax — during a lunch meeting of business leaders and elected officials.

Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson said Tuesday during the Detroit Economic Club luncheon that the water crisis had been “vastly overstated,” reported the Detroit Free Press.

Blood testing has found dangerously high levels of lead in Flint’s children after the cash-strapped city stopped buying pretreated Lake Huron water from Detroit and instead began drawing highly corrosive water from the Flint River.

Patterson, however, said a GOP political analyst and former lawmaker who lives in Flint had opened a debate on the scandal during a radio interview.

“I think, well, that’s the other side,” Patterson said. “Let’s wait and see what the facts show.”

Bill Ballenger said during an appearance on WJR-AM that tests on his own blood had found no elevated lead levels.

BillBallenger (WJBK)

“This has been a vastly overblown crisis, perpetuated by a lot of politicians with an axe to grind and, for that matter, the news media, and some national figures, some political, some entertainers who don’t know what they’re talking about,” Ballenger told WJR’s Frank Beckmann.

Ballenger said scientists had not collected enough data to determine the seriousness of the contaminated water, which runs brown from the tap.

“I had my blood tested just yesterday, and I have no elevated blood-lead level — it’s way down there,” Ballenger said.

“The idea that the entire population of Flint has been poisoned and that we all have elevated blood-levels because of this is just a total canard,” Ballenger said. “It’s just a crock, and for this to be perpetuated as a story is doing a lot of damage to Flint as a community.”

Ballenger’s anecdotal data was good enough for Patterson to doubt whether Flint’s poor children, who don’t even have access to bottled water because the city lacks a single grocery store, had been exposed to contaminated water.

“He was adamant that he lives in Flint, he drinks the water, he showers in that water,” Patterson said during the business luncheon.

Patterson said Ballenger had described the water crisis as “a hoax,” and said the situation was “one of the most overblown scandals in the history of the state.”

Ballenger stood by his remarks, saying that long-term results would not be known for years, but Patterson’s office said his comments had been misinterpreted by reporters.

“Patterson never said he agreed with Ballenger’s comments,” his office said in a statement. “He simply noted there are other viewpoints on the subject.”

Both men’s comments contrasted with Republican Gov. Rick Snyder — who has apologized for his administration’s failure to quickly and seriously respond to concerns about the taste, odor and appearance of Flint’s water.

The 77-year-old Patterson is no stranger to controversial remarks, especially when it comes to Oakland County’s less-affluent neighbor.

“Anytime I talk about Detroit, it will not be positive,” he said during a 2014 interview. “Therefore, I’m called a Detroit basher. The truth hurts, you know? Tough ****.”

“I made a prediction a long time ago, and it’s come to pass,” Patterson added in an interviewpublished by the New Yorker. I said, ‘What we’re gonna do is turn Detroit into an Indian reservation, where we herd all the Indians into the city, build a fence around it, and then throw in the blankets and corn.’ ”

smh

fishlessman

how does a city this size not have a grocery or a water treatment plant

Sardonicus

fishlessman said:

how does a city this size not have a grocery or a water treatment plant

Good question.
Answering it would require a Rorschach Test session
that's sure to incite the wrath of THE Buffalo.
(Or the pantywaists who summon Him.)
  

henapple

pgprescott

HeavyG said:

The EPA got involved about a year ago warning them about this problem but the state officials basically told them to buzz off.

State/local officials lied about testing data more than a year ago in order to avoid publicizing a problem they were fully aware of. It's quite likely some folks will be prosecuted for that deception now that the U.S. Attorneys office is getting involved.

I always love the irony of folks like Gov. Snyder who came into office during the Tea Party fever of 2010 running to the federal government for help. On the other hand Michigan Congresscritter Justin Amash, another Republican who came into office in 2010 riding the same Tea Party train, has said that he opposes federal aid for Flint. He said that "the U.S. Constitution does not authorize the federal government to intervene in an intrastate matter like this one". My guess is he'll be changing his tune before long.

I always like when people blame someone who's been around for five minutes for the problems accrued over generations of liberal rule. These problems are the result of decades of bad policy and decision making. Seems like they made a poor call for sure, but why are they in this position to begin with. Hmmmm. 

HeavyG

fishlessman said:

how does a city this size not have a grocery or a water treatment plant

Flint has been a city on the decline for decades. The unemployment rate is about 40% thus the poverty rate is pretty high. It's not unusual for neighborhoods like that to not have a full blown grocery store and instead just have smaller "mom and pop" convenience stores.

My city, which is the most populous city in the state does not have its own water treatment plant. We buy water from a neighboring city. That's solely due to the history of how my area developed over the last century.

Flint does have its own treatment plant but they were buying water from a Detroit water utility. I don't know if that water was fed directly into their distribution system or if it went thru their treatment plant where it was just "polished up" before pumping into the Flint distribution system.

Either way it appears they weren't very skilled at operating that plant and got a lot of bad advice from a bunch of other players in this fiasco.

Or, I guess I should say "what fiasco?" because apparently there is no problem in Flint.

Sardonicus

pgprescott said:

HeavyG said:

The EPA got involved about a year ago warning them about this problem but the state officials basically told them to buzz off.

State/local officials lied about testing data more than a year ago in order to avoid publicizing a problem they were fully aware of. It's quite likely some folks will be prosecuted for that deception now that the U.S. Attorneys office is getting involved.

I always love the irony of folks like Gov. Snyder who came into office during the Tea Party fever of 2010 running to the federal government for help. On the other hand Michigan Congresscritter Justin Amash, another Republican who came into office in 2010 riding the same Tea Party train, has said that he opposes federal aid for Flint. He said that "the U.S. Constitution does not authorize the federal government to intervene in an intrastate matter like this one". My guess is he'll be changing his tune before long.

I always like when people blame someone who's been around for five minutes for the problems accrued over generations of liberal rule. These problems are the result of decades of bad policy and decision making. Seems like they made a poor call for sure, but why are they in this position to begin with. Hmmmm. 

Some might debate your implied premise.  Or ignore it.  Their choice, of course.
I'll only suggest that the decisions made regarding Flint's water supply and subsequent decisions to eschew treatment of same are the only relevant sources of rage and despair currently experienced by Flint's residents/parents.

That rage, it has been suggested by some within 1000 miles of Gunk Zero, is enhanced by the belief that a more-affluent populace would not have experienced like affects.