Devastated

nolaegghead

But I painted a scenario on what would happen if there was a flat tax.  More wealth disparity,  more poverty, more chaos, more crime.  Rather than an ad hominem attack on my pen-is, what is the counter argument?   Lay it on caz.   We would lay moar tax burden on a large number of people with very little money.  Not a good revenue source.   So what would happen?   Hint: this is a fringe solution, the flat tax,  for a reason. Punish poor lazy out of work people and single mothers sounds delicious,  those lazy fvcks, right.  Maybe you're right.   Poor people are just lazy and people with disabilities are worthless and our retired parents,  fvck them too, ain't working and sucking up da money.  Hey, maybe we can put em all in Detroit?   Build a big assed wall. Send in some trucks to pick up the dead every month.  I'm being sarcastic.

nolaegghead

The hate-based society has been done before and burned down over and over.  Face the social issues and pose some solutions mon.

cazzy

nolaegghead said:

But I painted a scenario on what would happen if there was a flat tax.  More wealth disparity,  more poverty, more chaos, more crime.  Rather than an ad hominem attack on my pen-is, what is the counter argument?   Lay it on caz.   We would lay moar tax burden on a large number of people with very little money.  Not a good revenue source.   So what would happen?   Hint: this is a fringe solution, the flat tax,  for a reason. Punish poor lazy out of work people and single mothers sounds delicious,  those lazy fvcks, right.  Maybe you're right.   Poor people are just lazy and people with disabilities are worthless and our retired parents,  fvck them too, ain't working and sucking up da money.  Hey, maybe we can put em all in Detroit?   Build a big assed wall. Send in some trucks to pick up the dead every month.  I'm being sarcastic.

Oh, I think a flat tax is silly, it's just 1am and I felt like talking **** like you.  

Detroit?  Makes sense to me!  Let them all retire in their $500 homes.  

nolaegghead

Flat tax.   Tell us why it's good, beats a progressive tax, for America and leave my pen-is out of it.  

nolaegghead

Haha...yeah, I'm right there with ya man.  I wouldn't dish it out if I couldn't take it.  Get a good nite sleep brother.

nolaegghead

Like I can forgive a fun-lovin' single teenage mother for having babies and being on welfare, I can forgive anyone on this forum.  Jesus camp and Sunday school leave you ill-equipped to deal with the realities of life.  The chain-mail index of gullibility runs high here.  It is not your fault, you are mostly products of your influential micro-culture.  But now that you see some skyline through that haze (I would hope, but am not optimistic), the whole wide world is not a simple issue where flat tax solves everything.  Be skeptical of everything.  But most of all BBQ sh!t and post it so we can say it looks good.   NOLA out.

Hibby

Nola - I've got to say that I rarely see someone more condescending in their delivery than you are. I've read every one of your posts in this thread and have been convinced of nothing nor swayed in the least by your attacks on anyone that doesn't think in lockstep with you. "Believe this" may be more convincing than "hey stupid, believe this" but I really don't expect you to take my advice or let my advice go without a scathing attack on my intelligence, belief structure, or need for a handjob. Seems that you're just a spiteful **** that's missing 'something' in your life to help rid you of your hate. The most surprising thing in this thread as it relates to you is that you haven't taken the occasional opportunity to remark about your Porsche - since that's a common theme for you. Compensating?

THEBuckeye

nolaegghead said:

Hibby said:

Anybody else get the feeling that all but 3 posters could leave this thread and never return and as long as someone could set up a web-bot to occasionally come in and post something conservative, the thread would go on in perpetuity and there would be more than enough handjobs to go around?

If you mean "stupid" in place of "conservative", then yes.  There is smart conservatism too, but eludes this thread.  Sounds like you need a hand job.  But don't look at me, I only give them to myself.

Good to know.

jonnymack

I'm a FairTax guy. Consumption tax with a "prebate" up to the poverty level for everyone. That means that the very poor still pay no tax. Eliminate the corporate income tax completely and you instantly have 30+% wiggle room on all goods and services (US based corp's) and the amount of investment you would have in America would be absolutely off the charts. The safest economy in the world with 0% taxes on companies? Many, many businesses would move here. In addition, you would not be taxed on savings, investment, income, anything until you spent it.

Want a boat? Great, you will pay a good tax on that. Want a Rolex? Super, you'll pay a good tax on that too. This plan would also bring the cash based economy into the tax paying public. It's too radical to ever happen but to me this is the best idea to really unleash the economy and create real jobs. That's my two cents.

Can't believe this threat is still going. 

henapple

@nolaegghead. ..finally a flat tax answer. "It's not fair". With a progressive tax system, who decides what's fair? 

thetrim

But the Minimax would then be $800...

jonnymack

thetrim said:

But the Minimax would then be $800...

I honestly don't believe that would happen. People don't factor in the taxes built into the price of everything you buy. For instance, if a company sells a grill at $1,000, that grill is priced to provide profit at the current draconian US tax rates (39%+applicable state tax say another 5-6%). If you remove the taxes, some companies may try to keep that extra margin but competition (in theory) should prevent that because Company B will sell their comparable grill for 44% less and capture the market. In my opinion, there will only be a slight increase in costs of goods and you will get to keep all of your wages. Think about that the next time you look at the "gross wages" line of your paycheck.

Again, just my two cents, I'm not super psycho on this stuff and know that this theory would be incredibly difficult to implement if it ever came to light. That being said I do salivate at the thought of how economically powerful this country would become if this plan were enacted. 

JohnInCarolina

henapple said:

@nolaegghead. ..finally a flat tax answer. "It's not fair". With a progressive tax system, who decides what's fair? 

Unfortunately, Congress.  And they tend to not favor the little guy (surprise surprise).  

Our current tax system is flatter than most appreciate, what with capital gains taxes being so low.  This is basically what made Warren Buffett point out that he pays an effective tax rate that is lower than his secretary's.  Is that "fair" ? 

henapple

@nolaegghead @JohnInCarolina I don't understand why you assume that all conservative people are homophobic, racist, pro-war, bible thumpers that hate poor people. That anyone that believes in God is an idiot that believes that the earth is 6000 years old. 

According to Whitehouse.gov 46% of our budget goes towards benefits. It's working as well as Al Sharpton being the spokesman for the black community. Half our budget goes to help poor people. The rich (above 114k) pays for that. 

JohnInCarolina

jonnymack said:

I'm a FairTax guy. Consumption tax with a "prebate" up to the poverty level for everyone. That means that the very poor still pay no tax. Eliminate the corporate income tax completely and you instantly have 30+% wiggle room on all goods and services (US based corp's) and the amount of investment you would have in America would be absolutely off the charts. The safest economy in the world with 0% taxes on companies? Many, many businesses would move here. In addition, you would not be taxed on savings, investment, income, anything until you spent it.

It's pretty debatable actually.  Many nominally US companies pay very little tax as it is.  There's this notion that we have high corporate tax rates, and that this has stifled business.  I think Apple has paid something ridiculous in an effective rate, for example - like 4%.  They're able to do that by navigating both US and international laws.  

Most major corporations these days are very effective at sheltering profits, regardless of where they happen to call "home".  So the decision of where to place manufacturing plants is much more dictated by the cost of labor and availability of skilled workers, rather than the particular country's tax laws.   

JohnInCarolina

henapple said:

@nolaegghead @JohnInCarolina I don't understand why you assume that all conservative people are homophobic, racist, pro-war, bible thumpers that hate poor people. That anyone that believes in God is an idiot that believes that the earth is 6000 years old. 

I certainly don't believe that all conservatives fall into these stereotypes.  Heck, a lot of poor people are conservatives, and I don't think they hate themselves, even if they do vote that way.  

henapple said:

According to Whitehouse.gov 46% of our budget goes towards benefits. It's working as well as Al Sharpton being the spokesman for the black community. Half our budget goes to help poor people. The rich (above 114k) pays for that. 

I'm not sure where the 46% number comes from.  Here's a chart from 2010 which I doubt has changed much:

THEBuckeye

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2563275

JohnInCarolina said:

henapple said:

@nolaegghead. ..finally a flat tax answer. "It's not fair". With a progressive tax system, who decides what's fair? 

Unfortunately, Congress.  And they tend to not favor the little guy (surprise surprise).  

Our current tax system is flatter than most appreciate, what with capital gains taxes being so low.  This is basically what made Warren Buffett point out that he pays an effective tax rate that is lower than his secretary's.  Is that "fair" ? 

Apple and Orange. The secretary was income tax rates. His is a capital gains rate based on  investment capital that has already had taxes paid on it. 

Tax Tax Tax then you die Tax

Fair?

henapple

Loopholes. Everyone or entity that can uses them. Republican and Democrats....but mainly the rich. I'm far from rich but as a SMALL business owner I use every one I can. 

saluki2007

JohnInCarolina said:

jonnymack said:

I'm a FairTax guy. Consumption tax with a "prebate" up to the poverty level for everyone. That means that the very poor still pay no tax. Eliminate the corporate income tax completely and you instantly have 30+% wiggle room on all goods and services (US based corp's) and the amount of investment you would have in America would be absolutely off the charts. The safest economy in the world with 0% taxes on companies? Many, many businesses would move here. In addition, you would not be taxed on savings, investment, income, anything until you spent it.

It's pretty debatable actually.  Many nominally US companies pay very little tax as it is.  There's this notion that we have high corporate tax rates, and that this has stifled business.  I think Apple has paid something ridiculous in an effective rate, for example - like 4%.  They're able to do that by navigating both US and international laws.  

Most major corporations these days are very effective at sheltering profits, regardless of where they happen to call "home".  So the decision of where to place manufacturing plants is much more dictated by the cost of labor and availability of skilled workers, rather than the particular country's tax laws.   

Your comment on cost of labor is true, but if they call their "home" Sweden due to tax laws, that money will never come to the US to invest in better facilities or infrastructure.

DMW

JohnInCarolina said:

henapple said:

@nolaegghead @JohnInCarolina I don't understand why you assume that all conservative people are homophobic, racist, pro-war, bible thumpers that hate poor people. That anyone that believes in God is an idiot that believes that the earth is 6000 years old. 

I certainly don't believe that all conservatives fall into these stereotypes.  Heck, a lot of poor people are conservatives, and I don't think they hate themselves, even if they do vote that way.  

henapple said:

According to Whitehouse.gov 46% of our budget goes towards benefits. It's working as well as Al Sharpton being the spokesman for the black community. Half our budget goes to help poor people. The rich (above 114k) pays for that. 

I'm not sure where the 46% number comes from.  Here's a chart from 2010 which I doubt has changed much:

Yeah, 46% is a bit low.
SS + Unemployment/Welfare + Medicare + Medicaid = 56.74%

JohnInCarolina

DMW said:Yeah, 46% is a bit low.

SS + Unemployment/Welfare + Medicare + Medicaid = 56.74%

SS and Medicare are "the poor" ?  OK.  

GATraveller

Only fair to point out that 74% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

JohnInCarolina

GATraveller said:

Only fair to point out that 74% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

YukonRon

Here is the thing, our USA corporate tax law, Government oversights, (EPA, OSHA, etc.) have driven many corporations to register in tax free havens such as the Bahamas to save profitability. Many companies do this. With the entitlements the government stipulates the companies must provide, they have to do something.

We have not created a level playing field for business in The USA. We do not have a level playing field for any taxes.

It could be much worse. Much of Europe is an example of overburdened personal tax structure.

DMW

JohnInCarolina said:

DMW said:Yeah, 46% is a bit low.

SS + Unemployment/Welfare + Medicare + Medicaid = 56.74%

SS and Medicare are "the poor" ?  OK.  

Some of each does. Granted that 100% of SS and Medicare are not "the poor", but it also isn't 0%.

Ladeback69

MAN, this has become the everything thread now.   

jonnymack

JohnInCarolina said:

It's pretty debatable actually.  Many nominally US companies pay very little tax as it is.  There's this notion that we have high corporate tax rates, and that this has stifled business.  I think Apple has paid something ridiculous in an effective rate, for example - like 4%.  They're able to do that by navigating both US and international laws.  

Most major corporations these days are very effective at sheltering profits, regardless of where they happen to call "home".  So the decision of where to place manufacturing plants is much more dictated by the cost of labor and availability of skilled workers, rather than the particular country's tax laws.   

See that's just it, if you had the US at 0% taxes, all of those companies come home. There is no reason to have all of the foreign shell games that result in those lower taxes. Think of the significant amount of money Apple has to spend to maintain that sweet tax rate, many millions of dollars that they wouldn't have to spend at all if there were no corp tax here.  Plus, any and all of that foreign cash can be repatriated which triggers huge investment in the US. I work at what would be considered a mid-sized company ($300mm revenue) and we pay over 40% in total taxes. Smaller business who can't afford the complexity of a multi-national tax structure or don't have any foreign earnings are stuck in the US, paying US taxes. 0% would bring all the large multinationals back into the US. Foreign companies would look to domicile here.  

NPHuskerFL

Kept quiet for a bit. Hopefully I don't misuse a word or misspell. Politics on both sides are corrupt to a certain extent. I favor the Fair Tax idea and believe it would be fair across the board. Religion, whether you believe or not shouldn't be mocked. I'm as guilty of this as anybody in poking fun at Allah etc but, these are people's ideological beliefs and should be respected. Just as I respect those that choose to be Pagan, Mormon, Scientology,Witchcraft, Buddhist, Hinduism, yes even (non radical) Islamic etc.  As a conservative I have my own beliefs and as a liberal you have yours. Which one is right & which one is wrong is debatable I guess.  The key is working together to achieve a common goal. I'm not saying we're all going to hold hands and sing Kumbaya by the BGE but, our COMMON goals can be achieved together.  

Legume

I'm certainly on board with tax reform of some kind, I'm just not schooled enough to make a suggestion or pick a winner.

Like the ideological name calling that I think is a waste of time, I think this too is the wrong argument to have, or at least not the discussion I would focus on.

I see it this way, I'm on a budget and I'm (stupidly) shopping for all of my food, toilet paper, etc. at Whole Foods, because, who doesn't like a nice organic, free-range roll to buff their rear with.  At some point, I'm going to spend more than I can or should on these items.  So what makes more sense as a solution, 1) go to my employer and tell them I need more money because I have to have that organic tp, or 2) change my spending habits and focus on value.

Our government, elected and otherwise, are not bringing us good value for the $ they already collect.  Let's fix that.  Streamlined tax code might be a great place to start, far too many people employed just to make that work and could be a two-fer.  When our elected officials spend recklessly it is because of self-serving political motivations (re-election & reciprocity), not because of a desire to govern well.

DoubleEgger

This has gotten excruciatingly boring and I have a BS in Economics....