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Eoin said:

pgprescott said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

caliking said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

JohnInCarolina said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

BenfordSlaw said:

This belongs in the bird feeder white grievance post

FTFY

I did not see any racism in that thread.  Perhaps a twinge of classist superiority, but no rascism.

Is that what we’re calling screeds against “illegals” and people who don’t speak English and anchor babies these days?  Classist superiority?

Duly noted.

That is more nationalistic pride than racism.  Come to America via legal means, follow our laws, and learn the language.  That isn't racism.  That is how the world works.  We are the only country that seems to wrapped around the axle on this simple philosophy.

I have lived in a non-western nation.  I have experienced immigration from the other side.

Immigration attitudes/perspectives are often draped in idealism, but it boils down to resources, especially in terms of human capital... which countries have them, and need/want more, vs. which countries don't have the resources, but plenty of people who are seeking them. 

No country with stagnant, or decreasing, population growth has strict anti-immigration policies. They need the labor, skilled, or otherwise.  About a third of US Nobel laureates have been immigrants. A few decades ago, when the US desperately needed doctors, nurses, engineers, and other professionals, it was a cakewalk to come over. But, they're not the only ones needed to keep a country going.

Yes, I noted the "legal means" bit. Counterpoint - it is likely not known exactly how much of an impact undocumented workers have on just the agricultural economy in the US. And, agreed, many illegal immigrants are not upstanding people. But, it's not like we have any dearth of less than upstanding citizens. 

Well written, and I agree.  I have worked with both documented and undocumented workers.  I had a girlfriend whose uncle was undocumented.  His brother owned the landscaping company he worked for.  He was a great guy, and it always was sad because he was never at family gatherings.  He was aftaid to travel if not necessary for fear of being deported.

Growing up 60 minutes from the Southern Border, I have a very conflicted view.  I have worked with some fantastic undocumented workers, and I have also run across coyotes and smugglers while hunting, hiking, and camping.  This is not an easy right/wrong situation.  I don't have answers to be honest.

I also have friends who went through the decade long process to become citizens.  Watching them pay thousands of dollars and years and years to become citizens is impressive.

If I had one suggestion, we need to change our immigration and naturalization process.  It shouldn't be willy-nilly, but it also shouldn't be as onerous and costly as it is.

Personal contact with undocumented people tends to change one’s perspective on these issues.  The wife works with Dreamers as well as lots of undocumented high school students and their families.  We’ve had them over our house many times for dinner.  Their stories are chilling.  

We had been providing safe harbor for immigrants from Nicaragua for more than 30 years, going back to Reagan.  These are folks who had moved here to escape a war zone, settled in and established families, had kids here who had grown up to be in high school.  A few years ago the US government decided we would no longer allow them to stay, so a bunch of kids ended up having their parents deported back to a country they hadn’t been in for 30+ years.  Unnecessarily cruel, in my opinion.

Literally a billion kids around the world with this “story”. I think again, we can all agree it’s chilling and or tragic on at least some level. You simply cannot make policy on the border based upon that. Responsible leaders have to consider the ramifications of the policies on the citizenry. Heck, there are literally millions of stories like that of actual citizen in the inner cities and rural areas scattered throughout the country. 

Everybody has sympathy for those in horrible conditions. Absolutely it will have a profound affect on anyone who interacts or even observes these conditions. 

I would argue we would be in a much better position to deal with those people in a legal and orderly fashion if the insanity was stopped at the border. It doesn’t promote the sympathetic environment you need to gain “buy in” from the citizenry. Once that’s done, you do as Ozzie suggests and streamline the system for orderly entry. Nobody would argue. Well, I’m sure some, but not many. The disorder is intentional and severely detrimental to the country as a whole. 

Literally billions, correct. Maybe if we in the west bombed fewer of them, supported fewer murderous dictators and insisted that our multi-national businesses created actual wealth in poor countries rather than just use them for cheap labour and low employment / environmental standards, fewer of these people would be forced to travel thousands of miles just to find somewhere safe to live with enough to eat.

nolaegghead said:

Pete, try reading what you wrote in the prior two posts with some kind of objectivity (if possible). 

Now take what you said about a sophomore in HS. 

See the similarities? 

That said, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy your show.

Kayak said:

I must be getting old, as I'm starting to avoid the threads that just irritate me instead of feeling like jumping in. It doesn't seem to matter, either, if it's because the people commenting are smarter or dumber than me. There are a lot more of the former then the latter, but the latter are more painful to read. The only poster missing from this thread is the gibbering sociopath who thinks everyone else is going to he!!.