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OT - What are you doing right now?

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Comments

  • kl8tonkl8ton Posts: 3,658
    Botch said:
    SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. 
    They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    So do we have another BlueStar owner among us?

    Probably not.  
    Did you do the taste test of pop/ soda with regular ice maker ice and their 3 thousand dollar under counter model ice?!?
    Large, Medium, MiniMax, & 22, and 36" Blackstone
    Grand Rapids MI
  • kl8ton said:
    Botch said:
    SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. 
    They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    So do we have another BlueStar owner among us?

    Probably not.  
    Did you do the taste test of pop/ soda with regular ice maker ice and their 3 thousand dollar under counter model ice?!?
    It was a weird morning, man.

    We are renovating over the next couple of months, so we can’t wait 6-8 months for any items.  With the current chip shortage that makes the options… interesting.
    "A generation of the unteachable is hanging upon us like a necklace of corpses." - George Orwell 

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    Ruining the forum, one post at a time.  

    Living large in the 919
  • SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    I like the bluestar but don’t love it. Honestly it doesn’t do anything my old stove didn’t do and my old oven actually achieved higher temps. I’m kinda a functionality guy so although the bluestar is way heavy duty and looks awesome, it’s really the same thing as a regular gas stove. I do like the way it heats cast iron evenly though, and I couldn’t imagine a sharper looking stove in my kitchen 
      
    South of Columbus, Ohio.
  • kl8tonkl8ton Posts: 3,658
    kl8ton said:
    Botch said:
    SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. 
    They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    So do we have another BlueStar owner among us?

    Probably not.  
    Did you do the taste test of pop/ soda with regular ice maker ice and their 3 thousand dollar under counter model ice?!?
    It was a weird morning, man.

    We are renovating over the next couple of months, so we can’t wait 6-8 months for any items.  With the current chip shortage that makes the options… interesting.
    Almond color fridge.  Avacado green oven.  Harvest orange dishwasher? 


    Large, Medium, MiniMax, & 22, and 36" Blackstone
    Grand Rapids MI
  • kl8ton said:
    kl8ton said:
    Botch said:
    SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. 
    They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    So do we have another BlueStar owner among us?

    Probably not.  
    Did you do the taste test of pop/ soda with regular ice maker ice and their 3 thousand dollar under counter model ice?!?
    It was a weird morning, man.

    We are renovating over the next couple of months, so we can’t wait 6-8 months for any items.  With the current chip shortage that makes the options… interesting.
    Almond color fridge.  Avacado green oven.  Harvest orange dishwasher? 


    Thankfully not that bad.  There are some brands that don't seem to have much of any delay.  

    BlueStar was actually one of them for ranges.  That was definitely part of the upside.  I'm just not sure it's worth several thousand more dollars over other options that will probably end up looking better in our new kitchen, for a variety of reasons.  

    On the fridge, the LG fridges appear to be doing just fine.  LG apparently is one company that somehow circumvented the whole chip issue (they either make their own or they had stockpiled just in time).  We have one now (it just won't fit the new kitchen, and I can convert it into a dry ager) and we like it just fine.

    The dishwashers are another story.  The high end German ones (like Bosch) are not going to be available anytime soon.   So we're looking at Samsung models there.  Never thought the guys who make great TVs would be washing my dishes too but I'm not sure we have too many other quality options there.  

    Then there's a bunch of other stuff like the fume hood for the range, microwave, and beverage fridge.  No real supply issues with any of those right now, but I'm just bracing to be surprised by some BS at some point.
    "A generation of the unteachable is hanging upon us like a necklace of corpses." - George Orwell 

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    Ruining the forum, one post at a time.  

    Living large in the 919
  • SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    I like the bluestar but don’t love it. Honestly it doesn’t do anything my old stove didn’t do and my old oven actually achieved higher temps. I’m kinda a functionality guy so although the bluestar is way heavy duty and looks awesome, it’s really the same thing as a regular gas stove. I do like the way it heats cast iron evenly though, and I couldn’t imagine a sharper looking stove in my kitchen 
      
    Man I got an entire lecture on burner design and BTUs this morning.  But I am kind of with you on functionality.  I'm not sure I really saw anything that blew me away.  Our current oven is pretty basic and I've never had an issue cooking anything on it. 

    The sales guy pointed out to my wife that the oven could fit a full-size cookie tray.  She was like "that's your fastball when you want us to pay almost twice as much?"  It kind of went downhill from there, lol.
    "A generation of the unteachable is hanging upon us like a necklace of corpses." - George Orwell 

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    Ruining the forum, one post at a time.  

    Living large in the 919
  • U_tardedU_tarded Posts: 1,887
    kl8ton said:
    kl8ton said:
    Botch said:
    SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. 
    They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    So do we have another BlueStar owner among us?

    Probably not.  
    Did you do the taste test of pop/ soda with regular ice maker ice and their 3 thousand dollar under counter model ice?!?
    It was a weird morning, man.

    We are renovating over the next couple of months, so we can’t wait 6-8 months for any items.  With the current chip shortage that makes the options… interesting.
    Almond color fridge.  Avacado green oven.  Harvest orange dishwasher? 


    Thankfully not that bad.  There are some brands that don't seem to have much of any delay.  

    BlueStar was actually one of them for ranges.  That was definitely part of the upside.  I'm just not sure it's worth several thousand more dollars over other options that will probably end up looking better in our new kitchen, for a variety of reasons.  

    On the fridge, the LG fridges appear to be doing just fine.  LG apparently is one company that somehow circumvented the whole chip issue (they either make their own or they had stockpiled just in time).  We have one now (it just won't fit the new kitchen, and I can convert it into a dry ager) and we like it just fine.

    The dishwashers are another story.  The high end German ones (like Bosch) are not going to be available anytime soon.   So we're looking at Samsung models there.  Never thought the guys who make great TVs would be washing my dishes too but I'm not sure we have too many other quality options there.  

    Then there's a bunch of other stuff like the fume hood for the range, microwave, and beverage fridge.  No real supply issues with any of those right now, but I'm just bracing to be surprised by some BS at some point.
    Went down the appliance rabbit hole last fall.  Ended up with the GE cafe line because it was in stock.  We had a Samsung dishwasher in our last place, worked great until it didn’t right about the 2 year mark. 
  • kl8tonkl8ton Posts: 3,658
    SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    I like the bluestar but don’t love it. Honestly it doesn’t do anything my old stove didn’t do and my old oven actually achieved higher temps. I’m kinda a functionality guy so although the bluestar is way heavy duty and looks awesome, it’s really the same thing as a regular gas stove. I do like the way it heats cast iron evenly though, and I couldn’t imagine a sharper looking stove in my kitchen 
      
    Man I got an entire lecture on burner design and BTUs this morning.  But I am kind of with you on functionality.  I'm not sure I really saw anything that blew me away.  Our current oven is pretty basic and I've never had an issue cooking anything on it. 

    The sales guy pointed out to my wife that the oven could fit a full-size cookie tray.  She was like "that's your fastball when you want us to pay almost twice as much?"  It kind of went downhill from there, lol.
    We had a Wolf.  Wouldn't do it again.  
    Large, Medium, MiniMax, & 22, and 36" Blackstone
    Grand Rapids MI
  • SonVoltSonVolt Posts: 3,035
    SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    I like the bluestar but don’t love it. Honestly it doesn’t do anything my old stove didn’t do and my old oven actually achieved higher temps. I’m kinda a functionality guy so although the bluestar is way heavy duty and looks awesome, it’s really the same thing as a regular gas stove. I do like the way it heats cast iron evenly though, and I couldn’t imagine a sharper looking stove in my kitchen 
      
    Man I got an entire lecture on burner design and BTUs this morning.  But I am kind of with you on functionality.  I'm not sure I really saw anything that blew me away.  Our current oven is pretty basic and I've never had an issue cooking anything on it. 

    The sales guy pointed out to my wife that the oven could fit a full-size cookie tray.  She was like "that's your fastball when you want us to pay almost twice as much?"  It kind of went downhill from there, lol.

    That was actually one of the selling points for me, lol. I could never fit large pans in my GE Profile because the stupid convection fan housing took up too much room, so the ability to fit a full sheet pan in a 30” oven was nice. Also I’m a broiler freak and it’s the only one that had a massive IR broiler that I was aware of.  I liked the open burners too, tho I have feeling they’re going to be a nightmare to clean. 

    Then… well my wife found out about their custom colors and finishes and I couldn’t talk her out of it. 

    It’s definitely a vanity appliance that probably won’t function any better than my GE, except for the improved broiler. 

    South of Nashville  -  BGE XL  -  Alfresco 42" ALXE  -  Alfresco Versa Burner  - Sunbeam Microwave 
  • SonVoltSonVolt Posts: 3,035
    Love our new GE Cafe counter depth fridge. Freezer on bottom. Water dispenser INSIDE the fridge. The way you don’t lose all the storage space in the door due to the ice maker. 
    South of Nashville  -  BGE XL  -  Alfresco 42" ALXE  -  Alfresco Versa Burner  - Sunbeam Microwave 
  • We probably have the ugliest kitchen cabinets on the forum.  I'm planning on a kitchen remodel but I'm too busy making the workspace to make the cabinets.  Plus other priorities like leaky roof, etc.
    If you want to post an ugliest kitchen thread, I am game. Just saying. 
  • U_tarded said:
    kl8ton said:
    kl8ton said:
    Botch said:
    SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. 
    They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    So do we have another BlueStar owner among us?

    Probably not.  
    Did you do the taste test of pop/ soda with regular ice maker ice and their 3 thousand dollar under counter model ice?!?
    It was a weird morning, man.

    We are renovating over the next couple of months, so we can’t wait 6-8 months for any items.  With the current chip shortage that makes the options… interesting.
    Almond color fridge.  Avacado green oven.  Harvest orange dishwasher? 


    Thankfully not that bad.  There are some brands that don't seem to have much of any delay.  

    BlueStar was actually one of them for ranges.  That was definitely part of the upside.  I'm just not sure it's worth several thousand more dollars over other options that will probably end up looking better in our new kitchen, for a variety of reasons.  

    On the fridge, the LG fridges appear to be doing just fine.  LG apparently is one company that somehow circumvented the whole chip issue (they either make their own or they had stockpiled just in time).  We have one now (it just won't fit the new kitchen, and I can convert it into a dry ager) and we like it just fine.

    The dishwashers are another story.  The high end German ones (like Bosch) are not going to be available anytime soon.   So we're looking at Samsung models there.  Never thought the guys who make great TVs would be washing my dishes too but I'm not sure we have too many other quality options there.  

    Then there's a bunch of other stuff like the fume hood for the range, microwave, and beverage fridge.  No real supply issues with any of those right now, but I'm just bracing to be surprised by some BS at some point.
    Went down the appliance rabbit hole last fall.  Ended up with the GE cafe line because it was in stock.  We had a Samsung dishwasher in our last place, worked great until it didn’t right about the 2 year mark. 
    Good to know - thanks.  
    "A generation of the unteachable is hanging upon us like a necklace of corpses." - George Orwell 

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    Ruining the forum, one post at a time.  

    Living large in the 919
  • LegumeLegume Posts: 11,738
    Same story for dishwasher, motor went bad right about warranty period.

    Have them put your current one in and order and wait for a Bosch to do a switch.

    We bought a Bosch fridge 2 years ago, could not be happier.  It doesn’t have internet though.
    I do not have any broken or spare parts for any size egg.
  • lousubcaplousubcap Posts: 24,375
    No kitchen or other appliance comments here.  Enjoying the ESPN 2 Manning brothers even though I don't care about the game. (Lions-Packers).  Guests in the first half-Gronkowski and Favre.  Hopefully some defense commentators going forward.  Beats the main-stream broadcast (ESPN) hands-down.  
    Louisville; "indeterminate Jim" here.  Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!
  • Legume said:
    Same story for dishwasher, motor went bad right about warranty period.

    Have them put your current one in and order and wait for a Bosch to do a switch.

    We bought a Bosch fridge 2 years ago, could not be happier.  It doesn’t have internet though.
    Good to know on the Bosch fridge.  Those appear to be available.  I'm not sure they're really worth the extra cost compared to the LG, but the wife seemed to like it, so...

    On the dishwasher I think I actually prefer a Miele.  There may be less of a lead time on one of those, we're looking into it.  
    "A generation of the unteachable is hanging upon us like a necklace of corpses." - George Orwell 

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    Ruining the forum, one post at a time.  

    Living large in the 919
  • SGHSGH Posts: 28,107
    I’m kinda a functionality guy 
    Me too brother Alaskan. I still do 95% of my cooking on a Bayou Classic triple burner that I paid about 50 bucks for 30 years ago. It’s definitely not a BlueStar, Viking or Wolf by any means. But it works for me 👍

    Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.

    Status- Standing by.

    The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. 

  • lousubcap said:
    No kitchen or other appliance comments here.  Enjoying the ESPN 2 Manning brothers even though I don't care about the game. (Lions-Packers).  Guests in the first half-Gronkowski and Favre.  Hopefully some defense commentators going forward.  Beats the main-stream broadcast (ESPN) hands-down.  
    They are hard on each other. When Eli said “That’s not a forehead that’s a five head”, I just saved spitting out my beer.
    LBGE, 36" Blackstone, Anova Pro
    Charleston, SC
  • KayakKayak Posts: 501
    kl8ton said:
    kl8ton said:
    Botch said:
    SonVolt said:
    Spent the morning at an appliance center.  The sales guy who showed us various models of ranges, fridges, etc. certainly knew his stuff but he just kept talking and talking.  So many details.  He took five minutes to explain to us how the screws on top of a BlueStar range are there so you can level the burners.  


    Though I still haven’t used our new Bluestar Platinum range yet, I’m convinced we made the right decision vs going with say Wolf or Viking. It’s an absolute beast. 
    They’re really nice.  It seems like overkill for us and how we use our range, but I appreciated the build quality for sure.
    So do we have another BlueStar owner among us?

    Probably not.  
    Did you do the taste test of pop/ soda with regular ice maker ice and their 3 thousand dollar under counter model ice?!?
    It was a weird morning, man.

    We are renovating over the next couple of months, so we can’t wait 6-8 months for any items.  With the current chip shortage that makes the options… interesting.
    Almond color fridge.  Avacado green oven.  Harvest orange dishwasher? 


    Thankfully not that bad.  There are some brands that don't seem to have much of any delay.  

    BlueStar was actually one of them for ranges.  That was definitely part of the upside.  I'm just not sure it's worth several thousand more dollars over other options that will probably end up looking better in our new kitchen, for a variety of reasons.  

    On the fridge, the LG fridges appear to be doing just fine.  LG apparently is one company that somehow circumvented the whole chip issue (they either make their own or they had stockpiled just in time).  We have one now (it just won't fit the new kitchen, and I can convert it into a dry ager) and we like it just fine.

    The dishwashers are another story.  The high end German ones (like Bosch) are not going to be available anytime soon.   So we're looking at Samsung models there.  Never thought the guys who make great TVs would be washing my dishes too but I'm not sure we have too many other quality options there.  

    Then there's a bunch of other stuff like the fume hood for the range, microwave, and beverage fridge.  No real supply issues with any of those right now, but I'm just bracing to be surprised by some BS at some point.
    You might look at AJMadison.com. There used to be another big online retailer too, but I can't remember who they were.

    Bob

    New Cumberland, PA
    XL with the usual accessories

  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 28,085
    We probably have the ugliest kitchen cabinets on the forum.  I'm planning on a kitchen remodel but I'm too busy making the workspace to make the cabinets.  Plus other priorities like leaky roof, etc.
    If you want to post an ugliest kitchen thread, I am game. Just saying. 

    something i can compete in, well theres not much competition......

    ill start with my kitchen rug, 1950's blue indoor outdoor grease stained and torn, what you got.  it kinda matches the harvest gold fridge.  the upper cabinets had floor wax 6 inches up the bottoms, pretty sure they were a road find by the last owner, i tore them off the wall and hung pans on the exposed nails.  theres a ladder in my kitchen that leads to an attic shower.  did i mention theres no hot water, well not since june 7th when the water heater died and i found out my right leg is a giant blood clot. hoping to get the new water heater in soon though, ultra sound tomorrow so maybe next week i can get the heater down the hill.  the kitchen in my camp is another story, that one needs some work
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • We probably have the ugliest kitchen cabinets on the forum.  I'm planning on a kitchen remodel but I'm too busy making the workspace to make the cabinets.  Plus other priorities like leaky roof, etc.
    If you want to post an ugliest kitchen thread, I am game. Just saying. 

    something i can compete in, well theres not much competition......

    ill start with my kitchen rug, 1950's blue indoor outdoor grease stained and torn, what you got.  it kinda matches the harvest gold fridge.  the upper cabinets had floor wax 6 inches up the bottoms, pretty sure they were a road find by the last owner, i tore them off the wall and hung pans on the exposed nails.  theres a ladder in my kitchen that leads to an attic shower.  did i mention theres no hot water, well not since june 7th when the water heater died and i found out my right leg is a giant blood clot. hoping to get the new water heater in soon though, ultra sound tomorrow so maybe next week i can get the heater down the hill.  the kitchen in my camp is another story, that one needs some work

    "A generation of the unteachable is hanging upon us like a necklace of corpses." - George Orwell 

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    Ruining the forum, one post at a time.  

    Living large in the 919
  • @JohnInCarolina I know it isn't a high end brand, but we love our kitchenaid dishwasher.  Our Kenmore Elite went out right when the lockdowns started and we had to get what they had in stock once everything re-opened.  Didn't break the bank obviously and the only way I know it is running is because of the little light.  lol
    Midland, TX XLBGE
  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 28,085


    and to set things right, i dont dance or wear city hats


    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 28,085
    edited September 21
  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 28,085
    and heres to stove top cooking in a dry rot kitchen


    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • bubbajackbubbajack Posts: 861
    Garden City Beach SC

    I drink cheap beer so I can afford good bourbon.

    Salisbury, NC...... XL,L,Mx2,S, MM, Mini BGE, FireDisc x2

    I am locked in a place where now one goes - we have no quarter!
  • Embarking on a 3 hour, yes 3 hour, zoom session on diversity and inclusion.  Hence why I am here on my second screen.  I'm all for diversity, but come on.  3 hours?  Over lunch time of course.
  • Embarking on a 3 hour, yes 3 hour, zoom session on diversity and inclusion.  Hence why I am here on my second screen.  I'm all for diversity, but come on.  3 hours?  Over lunch time of course.
    Isn't that the same duration as the tour the cast of Gilligan's Island departed for, before they shipwrecked?  
    "A generation of the unteachable is hanging upon us like a necklace of corpses." - George Orwell 

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    Ruining the forum, one post at a time.  

    Living large in the 919
  • SGHSGH Posts: 28,107
    Question for y’all. Most seem to prefer cooking on a gas stove. Myself included. However when it comes to ovens I prefer electric. How about y’all? What’s your preference on ovens and why? 

    Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.

    Status- Standing by.

    The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. 

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