OT: Gas Stoves And Indoor Air Pollution

CTMike

I can’t seem to find the original thread discussing this, so I am starting a new one. 

In that thread, this study was linked/discussed:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/gas-stoves-air-pollution-1.6394514

Then I came across this study from Massachusetts correlating 30 years of data linking natural gas stoves to a marked increase in childhood asthma:

https://www.massmed.org/Publications/Vital-Signs---Member-Publication/Connection-Between-Natural-Gas-Stoves-and-Pediatric-Asthma/

From what I can find propane (what we use) produces lower amounts of benzene and nitrous oxide than natural gas, but I’m not taking any chances considering how severe SWMBO’s asthma is. We installed this range in 2014, and her asthma got markedly worse in 2016. I know that is not enough evidence to absolutely correlate one to the other, but as I said above, I’m not taking any chances.  

So with all that said, I am looking at 36” wide induction ranges. I was considering Wolf, but not available until November, and I’m not willing to wait that long. Models that have a 4 to 6 week lead time are:

Fisher & Paykel RIV3-365
Bertazzoni MAST365INSXT
Bosch HIS8655SS

ILVE UMI09NS3SSC

Anyone have any experience with any of the above brands? 

My cookware is all induction capable so no worries there. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

I had that Bosch and had to go back to gas when we sold that house. I cannot tell you how much I miss my Bosch induction and how much I hate gas after having induction. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

We have a Thermador 48” double oven gas range built into our current house. I would have to rebuild my entire kitchen to go back to induction. I am seriously considering it. 

CTMike

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I had that Bosch and had to go back to gas when we sold that house. I cannot tell you how much I miss my Bosch induction and how much I hate gas after having induction. 

Thanks for the input. The Bosch is the cheapest of those listed, but it also has the smallest size oven at 3.7 cu ft. The F&P and Bertazzoni will both fit a full size sheet pan.

CTMike

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

We have a Thermador 48” double oven gas range built into our current house. I would have to rebuild my entire kitchen to go back to induction. I am seriously considering it. 

I wanted to go with a 48” when we put in this range, but SWMBO was not willing to lose 12” of cabinetry. 😡

Pook

CTMike said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I had that Bosch and had to go back to gas when we sold that house. I cannot tell you how much I miss my Bosch induction and how much I hate gas after having induction. 

Thanks for the input. The Bosch is the cheapest of those listed, but it also has the smallest size oven at 3.7 cu ft. The F&P and Bertazzoni will both fit a full size sheet pan.

I have gas and it does seem to smell uo the house 

CTMike

Pook said:

CTMike said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I had that Bosch and had to go back to gas when we sold that house. I cannot tell you how much I miss my Bosch induction and how much I hate gas after having induction. 

Thanks for the input. The Bosch is the cheapest of those listed, but it also has the smallest size oven at 3.7 cu ft. The F&P and Bertazzoni will both fit a full size sheet pan.

I have gas and it does seem to smell uo the house 

I have 1,200 cfm worth of range hood ventilation that  should exhaust the combustion byproducts but I’m just not willing to take the chance.

alaskanassasin

Pook said:

CTMike said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I had that Bosch and had to go back to gas when we sold that house. I cannot tell you how much I miss my Bosch induction and how much I hate gas after having induction. 

Thanks for the input. The Bosch is the cheapest of those listed, but it also has the smallest size oven at 3.7 cu ft. The F&P and Bertazzoni will both fit a full size sheet pan.

I have gas and it does seem to smell uo the house 

It should not. You might need to adjust your burner airflow 

nolaegghead

Or eat less beans.

Canugghead

https://davidsuzuki.org/story/fossil-gas-is-not-healthy-for-children-and-other-living-things/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9819315/

A recent analysis of 27 studies on the effects of gas appliances on children concluded 12.7 per cent of current childhood asthma in the U.S. can be attributed to gas stove use — ranging from three per cent in Florida to 21.1 per cent in Illinois. (The percentage of homes with gas stoves is much higher in Illinois than in Florida.)

We're using our portable induction cooktop as much as possible instead of the gas top, too bad the oven is gas too. We may eventually switch back to full electric, buy new or resurrect our old electric glass top.

alaskanassasin

I dunno, I grew up with a wood stove that heated the house, a propane space heater in the kitchen and gas stove for cooking. I think there are bigger environmental hazards to worry about than the stove I use for 20 minutes a day.

Canugghead

alaskanassasin said:

I dunno, I grew up with a wood stove that heated the house, a propane space heater in the kitchen and gas stove for cooking. I think there are bigger environmental hazards to worry about than the stove I use for 20 minutes a day.

To each his own, at 20 minutes a day you should have zero worries. We otoh burn too much gas, yesterday's MSM brisket took 3.5 hours to steam 

Canugghead

Honoured to earn a Dislikowart awart.

Legume

We always had electric, until a move in 2002.  No known asthma in either family.  My wife has developed some mild asthma in the past 5 years and my daughter developed asthma about 2010ish.  100% anecdotal, it could be any number of things, not necessarily gas stove. However, we'll have solar and a new electric panel by the time we redo the kitchen, so it will be easy to swap to induction at that time.  Maybe they can come up with something that looks better than a 90's style smoked glass top by then.

CTMike

So my evidence is likely anecdotal as well, but I am not willing to take the chance. She has been intubated 6 - 7 times in the last 4 years or so, along with several other severe exacerbations that were able to be resolved with BiPap, steroids, and continuous nebs. It is amazing to see how many people come running and how well trained the team is when Code Blue goes out over the paging system. It is almost like watching a well choreographed dance routine. 

We decided to go with the Bertazzoni, might be delivered as soon as this Friday. 

If anyone in New England area is interested in a dual fuel 36” Kitchenaid commercial with steam function let me know. 😎

Canugghead

CTMike said:

So my evidence is likely anecdotal as well, but I am not willing to take the chance. She has been intubated 6 - 7 times in the last 4 years or so, along with several other severe exacerbations that were able to be resolved with BiPap, steroids, and continuous nebs. It is amazing to see how many people come running and how well trained the team is when Code Blue goes out over the paging system. It is almost like watching a well choreographed dance routine. 

We decided to go with the Bertazzoni, might be delivered as soon as this Friday. 

If anyone in New England area is interested in a dual fuel 36” Kitchenaid commercial with steam function let me know. 😎

IIRC @GrateEggspectations was thinking of getting a new gas range? Perhaps you can bring it to Ottawa next time you visit your loved ones, I'm sure he'll give you a skid of Maple Leaf lumps and 10 gallons of maple syrup in return 

Edit: and three cases of La Bomba.  OK just j/k on a quiet Sunday night.

CTMike

Canugghead said:

CTMike said:

So my evidence is likely anecdotal as well, but I am not willing to take the chance. She has been intubated 6 - 7 times in the last 4 years or so, along with several other severe exacerbations that were able to be resolved with BiPap, steroids, and continuous nebs. It is amazing to see how many people come running and how well trained the team is when Code Blue goes out over the paging system. It is almost like watching a well choreographed dance routine. 

We decided to go with the Bertazzoni, might be delivered as soon as this Friday. 

If anyone in New England area is interested in a dual fuel 36” Kitchenaid commercial with steam function let me know. 😎

IIRC @GrateEggspectations was thinking of getting a new gas range? Perhaps you can bring it to Ottawa next time you visit your loved ones, I'm sure he'll give you a skid of Maple Leaf lumps and 10 gallons of maple syrup in return 

Edit: and three cases of La Bomba.  OK just j/k on a quiet Sunday night.

Sounds tempting, but what is La Bomba?

Canugghead

https://www.google.com/search?q=la+bomba+eggheadforum.com+site:eggheadforum.com&rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA1028CA1028&biw=1003&bih=534&sxsrf=AJOqlzV1x980xJqC1Pqb9pKSh45eqWRt3Q:1678665849736&ei=eWgOZJvOLMCJptQPpaqKgAo&ved=0ahUKEwjb7q3Nzdf9AhXAhIkEHSWVAqAQ4dUDCA8&oq=la+bomba+eggheadforum.com+site:eggheadforum.com&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQDEoECEEYAFAAWKgVYL0xaABwAHgAgAFjiAGUBZIBATiYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

RRP

Though our furnace is natural gas as well as our hot water heater our stove is an electric JENN AIR with a down draft fan centered in my kitchen island.

! can NEVER EVER have a gas stove here...SO I AM JEALOUS!!!...

And due to my age etc etc etc I will have to live here until I die and keep on cooking on my electric stove inside, but thankfully using lump charcoal cooking outside!

LONG LIVE outdoor grills!!!

Mr1egg

I have a kitchen aid induction and I love it, have had it for 8 years with no problems. Wife loves to use it and it's super easy to clean. 

flyer_egger

10 years Electrolux Induction  love it would never go back to gas....  only drawback, not able to slide pan back and forth. 
Hot enough to WOK cook, nothing lost to gas. 
Using all Scanpan CTX and cast.

ksmyrl

Admittedly not answering your question here but we switched to induction via a 36 in induction cooktop in 2019. Wish I had switched sooner. Expectations far exceeded with induction...and I liked the excuse to replace all the pots and pans except for the cast iron. You'll love it.

CTMike

ksmyrl said:

Admittedly not answering your question here but we switched to induction via a 36 in induction cooktop in 2019. Wish I had switched sooner. Expectations far exceeded with induction...and I liked the excuse to replace all the pots and pans except for the cast iron. You'll love it.

I’m happy to hear all of these positive reviews for induction cooking. Thankfully my cookware (Staub and All-Clad Copper Core) works with induction. I’d like to claim that I was forward looking when I bought the cookware but that wouldn’t be true.  

Ozzie_Isaac

Can you make a roux and other delicate sauces on an induction top?

I love my gas for it rapid response, ability to go very low or high, and quiet operation.  I can use diffusion plates for even better low temp control.

Jstroke

My only fear of induction is shattering/scratching. I’m hard enough on gas grates what with sauté and cast iron, sliding, moving pans, Dutch ovens full of stew. I feel like I would break one in a heartbeat. 

dbCooper

@CTMike - To touch on the reason you wish to convert to induction, if not done already you might consider a air quality test of your residence.  Building materials outgassing and/or unknown mold could be contributors to the asthma issue.  Also, if in a super airtight home, fresh air intake functionality may be a concern.

I can relate to having a better half with a chronic health issue, so tossing a couple ideas that crossed my mind your way.

OT: Your butterfly joint on the stairs was pretty cool.

RRP

I'm NOT trying to start a political feud. This is from the Washington Examiner:

The legacy media and the Left attempted to brush off the initial gas stove controversy and outcry from the Right as nothing more than an unsubstantiated, irrational conspiracy theory. The White House even insisted that President Joe Biden does not support a ban on gas stoves after one of his federal consumer safety officials suggested that such a ban was on the table. 

But, as we are seeing in so many other instances, Republicans were right all along. President Joe Biden’s Department of Energy is, in fact, pushing an extreme regulation that would effectively eliminate nearly all gas stoves. 

The Department of Energy is conducting this gas stove grab through a rule that would impose extreme energy performance standards on residential cooktops. The department’s proposed rule sets requirements for gas cooktops at the maximum technologically feasible or "max-tech" level. Based on the Department of Energy's own analysis, gas cooktops at the max-tech level represent just 4% of current market share and exclude all conventional free-stand ranges. 

Any rule that causes 96% of the products available today to be eliminated from the market is an extreme regulation. In fact, it is essentially an outright ban on gas stoves.

JohnInCarolina

RRP said:

I'm NOT trying to start a political feud. This is from the Washington Examiner:

The legacy media and the Left attempted to brush off the initial gas stove controversy and outcry from the Right as nothing more than an unsubstantiated, irrational conspiracy theory. The White House even insisted that President Joe Biden does not support a ban on gas stoves after one of his federal consumer safety officials suggested that such a ban was on the table. 

But, as we are seeing in so many other instances, Republicans were right all along. President Joe Biden’s Department of Energy is, in fact, pushing an extreme regulation that would effectively eliminate nearly all gas stoves. 

The Department of Energy is conducting this gas stove grab through a rule that would impose extreme energy performance standards on residential cooktops. The department’s proposed rule sets requirements for gas cooktops at the maximum technologically feasible or "max-tech" level. Based on the Department of Energy's own analysis, gas cooktops at the max-tech level represent just 4% of current market share and exclude all conventional free-stand ranges. 

Any rule that causes 96% of the products available today to be eliminated from the market is an extreme regulation. In fact, it is essentially an outright ban on gas stoves.

Ron, any opinion piece written by a Republican member of Congress and published in the Washington Examiner should probably be taken with a very large grain of salt.  

Here's a slightly more balanced piece on the topic:

https://www.eenews.net/articles/doe-rule-may-block-50-of-new-gas-stoves/

Make of it what you will, but I think the outrage is more... well, hot air... than substance.  

lkapigian

It is pretty real here in California , started with the Ultra Low Nox Furnaces a few years ago, put a mandate out there with no equipment to fit the bill, took a couple years to get equipment that would comply, it is garbage and 3 times the cost ....the work around for us ,order non compliant furnaces and an LP Kit, propane is not affected.

Coastal areas in California, good luck in getting a gas range now and or your Gas Fired Furnace replaced, moving forward, many areas new construction are all electric 

I am old enough to remember the last time this was done,late 60's early 70s "Medallion Homes" were all electric and the latest and  greatest , best for the environment , that craze lasted one build phase  

JohnInCarolina

It really does seem like the right to give your kids asthma in the comfort of your own home is something that should be protected. 

lkapigian

JohnInCarolina said:

It really does seem like the right to give your kids asthma in the comfort of your own home is something that should be protected. 

LoL