Pfizer/Moderna Vaccine

lousubcap

@fishlessman - that is a bit harsh but humorous in a sick sort of way!  

JustBuggin

I'll start off by saying I don't generally get the flu vaccine but for Covid I will. A day or two of felling like crap versus weeks and potential death seems like a no brainer to me. Plus I figure by the time my age/health group can get it many thousands or even millions of other people both old and high risk will already have tested it for me so side effects and impacts will be better known.

As for the anti-vaccine people I could care less what they do. Me and mine will get the vaccine when we can so we will be protected. If people don't, they will get Covid. Seems pretty close to survival of the fittest to me.

alaskanassasin

I will get the vaccine, not sure when but I will when it is appropriate. 

CTMike

Due to severe asthma, my wife is severely immuno-compromised due to long term high dose steroids. I inject her with a biologic (Xolair) every two weeks, and a nurse comes once a month to give her an IgG infusion to help boost her immunity. 

We will both be getting the immunization once her pulmonologist and immunologist tell us it’s safe for her/us to do so and is available to us. I imagine she will be eligible long before I will. 

Gulfcoastguy

I found out today that my next door neighbor was one of the first people to receive the Pfizer vaccine in my town. She is an intensive care nurse and for the last 9 months has been dealing exclusively with Covid patients according to the front page of today's paper. She said that she lost two patients within an hour  of each other one day. 

Mark_B_Good

Will we even have a choice ... really?  Don't get it ... no travelling, no restaurants, not allowed in many places ... so unless you're prepared to live a lonely life, and possibly limit your career choices .... do we really have a choice?

QDude

alaskanassasin said:

Kayak said:

alaskanassasin said:

I don't understand the mind set that you have to go out a vaccinate people who don't want it. I also don't understand locking everyone in their home.

  IMO if you want the vaccine go get it, if you don't for whatever reason then don't.

 Along the same lines why lock everyone in their homes, I know there are exceptions to everything but it seems that if you are in a high risk category you should take the necessary precautions to protect yourself and family.  If you are not, don't have any reason to contact anyone who is you should be able to go to work.

 This will be a wildly unpopular position on this forum, enter the trolls in 3...2...1..

Well,  since only a troll could disagree with you, why bother pointing out the explanations that have been available to everyone for 11 months now. You seem to be resistant to lernin.

Ahh see, we obviously disagree so you attack my intelligence. 

Unfortunately, we see that on both sides of the political spectrum.  The rabid dems and republicans seem to respond with insults when you have a different viewpoint.  It really is sad because this kind of talk divides us more and more.

Legume

pgprescott said:

The problem is only in small part the anti vaccine folks. There has been a full blown concerted effort by media talking heads and political actors and political “experts” who hate Cheeto man to discredit the efficacy of the vaccine. These are the ones responsible if there is a reluctance among the general public. Any carnage going forward due to reluctance of participation is on their hands. 

 As for the Anti Vaccine crowd, what are you gonna do? It’s their body, their choice. Right? 

We watch different news, or hear it differently perhaps.

The Cheeto related concerns stemmed from the playing fast and loose with science and medicine, politicizing it.  When you see hydroxychloroquin, sunshine, bright lights and disenfectant pushed over the recommendations of scientists and doctors and you see political pressure applied to science-based agencies, people get wary - will a vaccine or therapy be pushed through that isn’t well vetted.

FDA has spoken, I will take the vaccine when available to me.  Safety and efficacy profiles will continue to evolve as we go from 10s of thousands with short duration exposure to 100s of thousands and millions with longer term exposure.  We know now what we know now, more data over time helps complete the picture where rare adverse events emerge and we see which slices of the population and which underlying conditions impact the reaction to the vaccine.  There is more risk now d/t what we don’t know, but that will change quickly and the trade off is risk of COVID. At this point you have to toss your own coin, but being part of a society should weigh into that personal calculation.

I am fully supportive of businesses and schools restricting people that have not taken the vaccine.  Online learning at this point is far from a 100% substitute for in person, but there is no reason we can’t keep unvaxxed kids out of schools and force them to online.  Greater good has to be balanced with individual freedom or we don’t have a society.

nolaegghead

Nurses and doctors will be required to receive the vaccine in order to work.  If they refuse, they will be required to wear a ton of PPE, at the very least (when no one else is).   It's been this way for the flu. 

Many private companies will be the same.  Sick employees and customers is not good for business.

Kayak

QDude said:

alaskanassasin said:

Kayak said:

alaskanassasin said:

I don't understand the mind set that you have to go out a vaccinate people who don't want it. I also don't understand locking everyone in their home.

  IMO if you want the vaccine go get it, if you don't for whatever reason then don't.

 Along the same lines why lock everyone in their homes, I know there are exceptions to everything but it seems that if you are in a high risk category you should take the necessary precautions to protect yourself and family.  If you are not, don't have any reason to contact anyone who is you should be able to go to work.

 This will be a wildly unpopular position on this forum, enter the trolls in 3...2...1..

Well,  since only a troll could disagree with you, why bother pointing out the explanations that have been available to everyone for 11 months now. You seem to be resistant to lernin.

Ahh see, we obviously disagree so you attack my intelligence. 

Unfortunately, we see that on both sides of the political spectrum.  The rabid dems and republicans seem to respond with insults when you have a different viewpoint.  It really is sad because this kind of talk divides us more and more.

Unfortunately for the world, different viewpoints aren't always equally right viewpoints. If Mr. Assasin hasn't picked up any reason why healthy, low-risk people should get vaccinated or quarantine, maybe he does have a problem learning, or feels he knows better than others. Does he place his opinion above or on the same level as public health professionals? Maybe. Would you? You don't seem to have a problem heading off disagreement with insults (see "trolls" above), and, you don't seem to have a problem with there being a right and a wrong answer to a question. We'd still be swinging from the trees if that were true.

nolaegghead

Everyone please try to keep politics out of this. 

QDude

nolaegghead said:

Everyone please try to keep politics out of this. 

Good one Carey!

alaskanassasin

Got it, all medical professionals are in agreement on everything and in your view and we handled the pandemic perfectly so yes you are right

RyanStl

blind99 said:

nolaegghead said:

Great info @blind99

i'll report back wednesday.  shouldn't be too bad, but they say the 2nd dose is pretty unpleasant.  

This is true with my and my wife's experience with the Moderna vaccine. Wife was stuck on the couch for two days with flu like symptoms. I just didn't feel that great for one day, but arm was sore for a week. We are in the phase 2 study. We both joined the study with no worries.

QDude

alaskanassasin said:

Got it, all medical professionals are in agreement on everything and in your view and we handled the pandemic perfectly so yes you are right

Please report back about any issues or non-issues with it.

nolaegghead

pgprescott

I’ll take it, but aren’t we simplifying it a bit? What about HIPA laws? How long before there’s a lawsuit? You can’t ask people about medical issues, can you? You think it’s ok for restaurants to ask for vaccination paperwork? What about other infectious diseases? What about blood-borne things? I’m not judging one way or another, but it’s a slippery slope and I can see it being a tricky one at that. I would think that by spring there would be enough vaccinations along with the natural herd effect that things would really start to diminish. Even if some choose not to participate. At least I hope so. 

pgprescott

Legume said:

pgprescott said:

The problem is only in small part the anti vaccine folks. There has been a full blown concerted effort by media talking heads and political actors and political “experts” who hate Cheeto man to discredit the efficacy of the vaccine. These are the ones responsible if there is a reluctance among the general public. Any carnage going forward due to reluctance of participation is on their hands. 

 As for the Anti Vaccine crowd, what are you gonna do? It’s their body, their choice. Right? 

We watch different news, or hear it differently perhaps.

The Cheeto related concerns stemmed from the playing fast and loose with science and medicine, politicizing it.  When you see hydroxychloroquin, sunshine, bright lights and disenfectant pushed over the recommendations of scientists and doctors and you see political pressure applied to science-based agencies, people get wary - will a vaccine or therapy be pushed through that isn’t well vetted.

FDA has spoken, I will take the vaccine when available to me.  Safety and efficacy profiles will continue to evolve as we go from 10s of thousands with short duration exposure to 100s of thousands and millions with longer term exposure.  We know now what we know now, more data over time helps complete the picture where rare adverse events emerge and we see which slices of the population and which underlying conditions impact the reaction to the vaccine.  There is more risk now d/t what we don’t know, but that will change quickly and the trade off is risk of COVID. At this point you have to toss your own coin, but being part of a society should weigh into that personal calculation.

I am fully supportive of businesses and schools restricting people that have not taken the vaccine.  Online learning at this point is far from a 100% substitute for in person, but there is no reason we can’t keep unvaxxed kids out of schools and force them to online.  Greater good has to be balanced with individual freedom or we don’t have a society.

Those things I mentioned were widely viewed on news channels you view. It’s fact. It’s verifiable because it’s on video tape. You can try and play games with stupid distractions, but we were told a vaccine was impossible by the end of the year and if it happened it would be unsafe. Repeatedly. It was “impossible”. Fact. No vaccine was ever going to be offered without FDA approval. That’s a red herring. The vaccine was pushed through. It was pushed through by eliminating all obstacles such as market risk. Burdensome regulations which only served to slow the process. By coordinating with private sector forces and as mentioned, eliminating their risk. It’s called incentive. Incentive without risk is very appealing. 

Now I would say the onus is on those people to apologize and correct the record so people feel safe. Unless they stand by the months of statements to the contrary.  Again, verifiable fact. On video. Repeatedly! It is really hard to pretend that’s not the case. It’s fact. On video. Repeatedly. Over and over again. Night after night. After night after night. I can see why we don’t want to discuss how we got to this point. Because it’s embarrassing and ugly. 

Legume

HIPPA is about privacy, protection. What others do with your information, not what you do with it.

nolaegghead

pgprescott said:

I’ll take it, but aren’t we simplifying it a bit? What about HIPA laws? How long before there’s a lawsuit? You can’t ask people about medical issues, can you? You think it’s ok for restaurants to ask for vaccination paperwork? What about other infectious diseases? What about blood-borne things? I’m not judging one way or another, but it’s a slippery slope and I can see it being a tricky one at that. I would think that by spring there would be enough vaccinations along with the natural herd effect that things would really start to diminish. Even if some choose not to participate. At least I hope so. 

When I was a chef, all the employees had to get a license to work in the industry.  This was in Texas.  I think the health department managed it.  No specific HIPA targeted data was released to the restaurant, just yes you can work there or no, you didn't get your clean bill of health.  (Since there was only one major thing people failed, we all knew anyway when people couldn't get their license).

blind99

Lockdowns have certainly been harmful. I give great credit to the average person to make very good choices. That’s why this virus is scary. No one thinks they’re doing something dumb. But the virus still spreads. If it was so easy to stay safe we wouldn’t have so many cases.  It would be great to say “if you have risk factors take extra precaution” and leave it at that, but that’s not working. People underestimate their risk and over estimate what outcome they think they’ll have with the virus. My most cautious neighbors got it and have zero idea how. 

I don’t think business will reopen based on vaccination, but rather the course of the disease. If hospitals are full, restrictions continue. 

If someone has a better way to reduce cases than masks, restrictions on gatherings, and vaccination, please let us in on the secret. I still believe that vaccination is the only way out of this. I think the vaccines coming out now seem promising and safe so I’ll take it. 

nolaegghead

blind99 said:

Lockdowns have certainly been harmful. I give great credit to the average person to make very good choices. That’s why this virus is scary. No one thinks they’re doing something dumb. But the virus still spreads. If it was so easy to stay safe we wouldn’t have so many cases.  It would be great to say “if you have risk factors take extra precaution” and leave it at that, but that’s not working. People underestimate their risk and over estimate what outcome they think they’ll have with the virus. My most cautious neighbors got it and have zero idea how. 

I don’t think business will reopen based on vaccination, but rather the course of the disease. If hospitals are full, restrictions continue. 

If someone has a better way to reduce cases than masks, restrictions on gatherings, and vaccination, please let us in on the secret. I still believe that vaccination is the only way out of this. I think the vaccines coming out now seem promising and safe so I’ll take it. 

Vaccines are the only way out because we are incapable (and unwilling) of managing spread.  Managing is what they have done in China. Of course that's oversimplifying things, but my point is the vaccine is not the only solution.  The Spanish Flu outbreak is a good example.

Legume

Pete, we were also told the warm weather would make it all go away.  Video, fact, as you say.

Agree with what you said re incentives, etc to deliver these vaccines.  It had never before been done, not even close, so good on everyone involved too to bottom.  People suspicious about the vaccine are not leaning on “a guy on the news said it was impossible” they’re leaning on question of safety, were any shortcuts taken that have created risk to people that take the vaccine.

Legume

And I’ll correct myself, hipaa, not hippa.

nolaegghead

I'm hippa-hopp-a-potamus, my lyrics are bottomless

nolaegghead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FArZxLj6DLk

blind99

Is there any US national vaccination requirement? We have requirements for public schools here locally, and my employer now mandates flu shots. I think some countries require proof of vaccination for some diseases for travelers? 

It’s hard for me to imagine a nationwide covid vaccination mandate. 

QDude

pgprescott said:

I’ll take it, but aren’t we simplifying it a bit? What about HIPA laws? How long before there’s a lawsuit? You can’t ask people about medical issues, can you? You think it’s ok for restaurants to ask for vaccination paperwork? What about other infectious diseases? What about blood-borne things? I’m not judging one way or another, but it’s a slippery slope and I can see it being a tricky one at that. I would think that by spring there would be enough vaccinations along with the natural herd effect that things would really start to diminish. Even if some choose not to participate. At least I hope so. 

I think the real issue will be trying to travel to other countries without proof of a vaccination.  If memory serves me right, herd immunity won't be reached until at least 60% of the population gets the vaccine.  Let's hope enough vaccine is here by then to accomplish this.

QDude

Another player in this is the EEOC.  They just came out with guidance about what employers can do concerning the vaccine requirement.  They must go thru an accomodation process related to disability or religious reasons.

ryantt

@lousubcap sometime I feel guilty that my wife and many of my friends have been working on the frontline while I sit at my desk 90% of the time...safe and away from the sick people.   We’ve all got the same skill set, I chose to take a different path.  I feel guilty that a friend/men’s study member of our church lost his covid battle today.  I feel bad for his wife and 3 kids, I feel guilty I wasn’t at the bedside trying to make things better.  21days on a vent after 7 days on a high flow and he dies alone.