OT: Smithfield Farms piece in RS

JohnInCarolina

Someone mentioned this article in one of the other threads, I think it was @alaskanassasin, and I tracked it down:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/why-is-china-treating-north-carolina-like-the-developing-world-122892/

Doesn't paint a pretty picture.  On some level, you know these large hog farms are pretty gross, and well... that's hog farming I guess.  But there would appear to be a lot more to it, and not much of it sounds very good to me.  

I buy Smithfield stuff all the time, and never really thought twice about it.  It's ubiquitous in NC, and I think many Costcos throughout the US carry their spares.   I'm going to look into this more on my own, and I'm sure there's more than one side to all of this ... but after reading this article, I may soon start looking elsewhere for pork products.

I hope this won't be taken as a political thread.  I don't intend it to be one.  Yes, Rolling Stone has a bias, like any other outlet, but there are plenty of facts there that are troubling all by themselves.   I think it's just important to be aware that things like this are going on, sometimes in your own back yard.  The county mentioned in the piece is all of about 90 minutes from my house, but it might as well have been in another country.  

Apologies for the downer on a Sunday afternoon.   

Eoin

High density factory farming is not a nice thing, but it does the job of producing cheap protein for the masses. This is one of the sticking points for us in the UK regarding a future trade deal with the USA, which is that US farmers will always out compete our farmers because of the allowed scale of factory farms and the low regulations. I suppose if you look at it like this article does, that's a good thing - we get the cheap meat, you get the sh1t (literally).

The other interesting point regarding Chinese investment that applies to all nations running a trade deficit with China and also attracting 'investment' from China is that we are buying cheap appliances from them with a very limited life span and selling them actual land and assets. Effectively, we in the West are swapping our land and infrastructure assets (China is building a nuclear power station here in the UK) for TVs, fridges and washing machines.

HeavyG

China is buying up farmland and farming/ranching operations all over the world. Food security in a changing climate when you have a billion+ people to feed requires some forward thinking. China is certainly thinking long term by buying up a lot of those resources all over the planet.

I wouldn't be surprised that they can source pork cheaper from the US in the quantities they want than many other places on the planet. China itself produces a helluva lot more pork than we do but I'm guessing they are finding it harder to be able to expand their internal production enough to keep up with the demands from their growing middle class.

I think anytime anyone takes a close look at any of the "Big Ag" type of operations you'll find many of the same problems. In my mind the largest problem with large scale hog farming is those damn waste lagoons. Those should be eliminated by law ASAP.

I don't know how long you've been in North Carolina but the problems NC had with overflowing/breached sewage lagoons about 20 years ago were terrible.

The "gig economy" the article mentions also applies to the folks that raise chickens. I've never felt that sort of arrangement is fair but there doesn't seem to be much action to change that practice.

I don't think Smithfield is any better or worse than any of the other big operators. If you find Smithfield's practices distasteful (so to speak) what are your choices? I'm sure you can find a local small scale heritage breed farm. Just be prepared for sticker shock.

Killit_and_Grillit

Communist Bacon. I’ve never felt so conflicted. 

I read up on this last year. From everything I saw it sounded like the new ownership has been running it more efficiently with less environmental dings. But then again buying a company is like buying a pre owned car. You treat it like it’s new...until one day you don’t. 

caliking

#growyourown

JohnInCarolina

HeavyG said:

I don't think Smithfield is any better or worse than any of the other big operators. If you find Smithfield's practices distasteful (so to speak) what are your choices? I'm sure you can find a local small scale heritage breed farm. Just be prepared for sticker shock.

Yeah I hear you.  I’m not going to grow my own anytime soon, despite @caliking’s prodding. We do have a pretty good farmer’s market here in town on the weekends and I’ve obtained some really good stuff there in the past.  I think I’m just going to try and hit it up more often.  It’s more expensive for sure, but I don’t mind paying more to support small, local farmers.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

This is why I eat very little factory farmed meat. I pay 10X in some cases for local pasture raised but I would rather eat less of the good stuff. 

GATraveller

I gave up Smithfield when they sold out. Didn't like it one bit. I'm lucky to have such a great butcher shop so close to home. 

tarheelmatt

GATraveller said:

I gave up Smithfield when they sold out. Didn't like it one bit. I'm lucky to have such a great butcher shop so close to home. 

Hopefully he don't buy Smithfield... 

JohnnyTarheel

You would be surprised how many butcher shops buy from Smithfield....

Philly35

Wel here in Iowa, the pig manure has to be contained. It is kept in what is called a slurrystore. Pretty much a big tank. It vents out through the top so usually there is no odor. I kind of find it hard to believe that there’s no liners beneath those pits because that would never fly here. You would get fined big time. And pig manure makes great fertilizer. 

Teefus

Nice hit piece written by a team of West coast left wingers. Hardly biased at all.

GATraveller

JohnnyTarheel said:

You would be surprised how many butcher shops buy from Smithfield....

I asked.....and no Smithfield.

NPHuskerFL

Teefus said:

Nice hit piece written by a team of West coast left wingers. Hardly biased at all.

Agree.  It's left-wing written. And John even prefaced that  Rolling Stone magazine is known for where they stand politically. But, this data is factually based.  

JohnInCarolina

Teefus said:

Nice hit piece written by a team of West coast left wingers. Hardly biased at all.

If you have a different piece that discusses what has happened from a different perspective, by all means post it here.  Otherwise your comment is fairly useless.  

johnnyp

Finally got around to reading this.  Pretty alarming. 

alaskanassasin

 This is a pretty big deal, factory farmers all over have been following this case.

 https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article210747979.html

  I was just surprised to find out China owns Smithfield, I really should not be though.

  Imagine trying to sell your house right after you find out they are building a factory hog farm on the other side of the road.  Or you wait.... Imagine trying to show your house while they are spraying thousands of gallons per acre liquid hog manure on the field adjacent to your front porch.

Teefus

NPHuskerFL said:

Teefus said:

Nice hit piece written by a team of West coast left wingers. Hardly biased at all.

Agree.  It's left-wing written. And John even prefaced that  Rolling Stone magazine is known for where they stand politically. But, this data is factually based.  

Yup. Livestock farming is mean. Livestock farming is loud. Livestock farming smells bad. Livestock farming may harm our environment. Livestock farming is cruel. Livestock farming creates manure. All factually based. So what?

Farm kid here.

Where I grew up, people moved out from the city to find paradise and immediately started bitching about sounds and smells and dirt and dust and mud and slow tractors. It's the country. It's zoned AG. If you don't want a farm across the street, move somewhere not zoned AG.

JohnInCarolina

Teefus said:

NPHuskerFL said:

Teefus said:

Nice hit piece written by a team of West coast left wingers. Hardly biased at all.

Agree.  It's left-wing written. And John even prefaced that  Rolling Stone magazine is known for where they stand politically. But, this data is factually based.  

Yup. Livestock farming is mean. Livestock farming is loud. Livestock farming smells bad. Livestock farming may harm our environment. Livestock farming is cruel. Livestock farming creates manure. All factually based. So what?

Farm kid here.

Where I grew up, people moved out from the city to find paradise and immediately started bitching about sounds and smells and dirt and dust and mud and slow tractors. It's the country. It's zoned AG. If you don't want a farm across the street, move somewhere not zoned AG.

The piece has quite a bit more to it than complaints over manure.  To be frank if this is all you took away from it, I wonder whether you even read it.  I am also wondering the same about the folks who are agreeing with you.  

YukonRon

Thank you for posting this link.

The article presents a landscape painted with a flawed brush. There is much more at risk than noise, odor, dirt and dust.

However, foreign investment for control of resources is nothing new in the United States. We have allowed this practice to continue from the inception of our country, as we are capitalists, after all.

But the point made is valid. There is a moral responsibility to be a good neighbor and citizen to the natives of the area. You should respect their communities, culture, land and people.

Clearly, we in the USA have a stellar record in how we deal with other countries, taking and using their number one resource; cheap labor.

Add to that, the colonization of America, and how we treated the Native Americans. Not a good position to point and cry foul from.

The obligation of the health and welfare of our people should come first, and decisions effecting food stocks for national security should not be far behind.

We are weak in this area, especially when capitalist functions override individual guarantees of health and welfare for our people.

Smithfields and China have treated our people poorly, no doubt, but even the US owned corp farms are less than reputable. They have been hiring illegal immigrants to work in their facilities at unfair wages, as they have done in poultry processing facilities, for years, amongst other unsavory practices.

Enjoy the bratwurst, just do not dig down too far, to witness the sausage being made. It is not a beautiful sight. 

The bottom line, is we can do better. We should do better.

NPHuskerFL

@Teefus I eat meat... Beef, Pork, poultry, fish, mollusks Etc and although I do believe in humanely processing all of these and limiting waste.  The "alarming" part to me is US family farms (not one or two) Etc being sold off to China. And for the record I have no political agenda in this subject.

GATraveller

Leave it to Rolling Stone to make pig farming racist.

johnnyp

GATraveller said:

Leave it to Rolling Stone to make pig farming racist.

.

JohnInCarolina

GATraveller said:

Leave it to Rolling Stone to make pig farming racist.

Well when you have minority communities being disproportionately affected by the environmental impacts, while simultaneously being denied loans to improve their own farms explicitly because of their race... it's a little difficult to conclude otherwise.  That being said, those aspects are relatively minor given the entire piece.  

Like I wrote upstream, RS has a bias, sure.  But some of the aspects of the article that some of you are focusing on are just bizarre to me.  

fishlessman

JohnInCarolina said:

  But some of the aspects of the article that some of you are focusing on are just bizarre to me.  

did the author spell a word wrong some place in the article

alaskanassasin

I can agree with whoever I want!
 My neighbor is a 3000 cow dairy owned by a India born Canadian. The guy is awesome, I really don’t  know a nicer person around here.  I moved here, the dairy was here before me. 

 You can see one of the silver barns in the photo. 
  
  

nolaegghead

Teefus said:

NPHuskerFL said:

Teefus said:

Nice hit piece written by a team of West coast left wingers. Hardly biased at all.

Agree.  It's left-wing written. And John even prefaced that  Rolling Stone magazine is known for where they stand politically. But, this data is factually based.  

Yup. Livestock farming is mean. Livestock farming is loud. Livestock farming smells bad. Livestock farming may harm our environment. Livestock farming is cruel. Livestock farming creates manure. All factually based. So what?

Farm kid here.

Where I grew up, people moved out from the city to find paradise and immediately started bitching about sounds and smells and dirt and dust and mud and slow tractors. It's the country. It's zoned AG. If you don't want a farm across the street, move somewhere not zoned AG.

The bubble you live in must smell like manure, and you seem to find that perfectly fine.

GATraveller

The "racist" slant of the article is not my lone take-away. 
I hate that Smithfield sold out.  I've said that several times in the past and felt my concerns were dismissed.   Sadly, I think we (as a country) have a fairly long history of outsourcing dirty industry to other places where regulation isn't as tight and costly.  Now that the shoe is on the other foot it kinda stings.
These farms practices are color blind......seeing only green $$.  They exist where land is cheap, plentiful and sparsely populated.  If wealthy caucasian males preferred to live in these same areas the farm practices would continue unchanged.
 

TEXASBGE2018

Thanks for sharing John. This is truly crazy to think about. This is an area that everyone regardless of political slant should come to an agreement on. Food  is vital to life and regardless of anyone's desire to make money it shouldn't come at the expense of peoples health or destroying the environment to the extent that it sometimes does. I live in the country and there are cattle farms all around me. Granted generally cattle aren't housed the same as pigs or chickens so there is not much of any kind of stench or environmental hazards noticed in our neighborhood. But the idea that someone who lives say a half a mile away from one of these places cant even stay inside their own house without smelling or inhaling pig shite is insane. Its a dirty job I get it. But shouldn't we as a country demand that our livestock and crops stay here so that we can better control these types of things? I'm pretty sure this is one of many reasons why as I said the other day I am noticing an off flavor in the meats I'm buying as well. Because they are pumping these animals full of god knows what. My god how progressive of me

TEXASBGE2018

I just wish livestock farming and processing could go back to being a regional thing. What I mean is you would only be allowed to process and sell it in your region. Some of the larger producing states could sell to other smaller producing states but nothing going over seas. We could control the process better and probably prevent a lot of this stuff from happening. It’s a shame that some farmers feel this is the only way they can earn a living is to sell out. This seems to me to have become a relatively recent trend too. I’m too young to know how it was back in the 1950s and 1960s other than what my parents and grandparents have told me but it doesn’t seem like we used to have these problems so widespread.

JohnInCarolina

The only "political" thing I'll say about the piece is that it's just astonishing to me that China would seek to purchase a company like Smithfield in the US because our regulations around hog farming are more lax than theirs.  I don't know if that's really true but if it is, WTF are we doing?