OT: Smithfield Farms piece in RS

DoubleEgger

I’ve been in a Smithfield plant. If you think what goes on outside is bad, you ought to venture inside. 

JohnInCarolina

DoubleEgger said:

I’ve been in a Smithfield plant. If you think what goes on outside is bad, you ought to venture inside. 

I can only imagine.  Hard pass.

alaskanassasin

Apparently making it easier. A non regulated barn around here is 2500 or less head of pigs. So they simply put smaller operations all over. 

HeavyG

I'm old enough to remember a few decades ago when Japan was buying up a LOT of US companies. The air was thick with the predictors of doom and gloom and how allowing that would be the ruination of the US. Didn't happen.

Seems like we're going thru that again if China or Russia buys a US company. A significant percentage of "American steel" is made in mills owned by Russia/India/Brazil/etc.

I think there are a lot of "American" brands/companies whose foreign ownership would surprise many (most?) Americans. Take a look at Budweiser - what's more "American" than a can of Bud?

I have no idea if our hog farming regs are less restrictive than those in China. China (and India) have, until recently, set aside any environmental concerns as they have focused on allowing their economies to grow. As China has become wealthier they are starting to pay attention to and regulate the waste products produced by their industries. I'll assume that some of those regulations apply to their agricultural sector.

Teefus

NPHuskerFL said:

@Teefus I eat meat... Beef, Pork, poultry, fish, mollusks Etc and although I do believe in humanely processing all of these and limiting waste.  The "alarming" part to me is US family farms (not one or two) Etc being sold off to China. And for the record I have no political agenda in this subject.

Agreed on all points. 

Teefus

GATraveller said:

Leave it to Rolling Stone to make pig farming racist.

Someone had to do it....

HoustonEgger

For those so inclined, the Netflix documentary "Rotten" is pretty interesting. I just finished the Chicken episode and it provided great insight into JBS Swift and it's dominance in the meat market. The earlier episodes on honey, garlic and peanuts were equally as interesting

DoubleEgger

China owns over a trillion dollars of US notes. While I sympathize with the plight of the environment in regards to pig farming, this is a needle in the haystack of the bigger picture of our country’s insatiable addiction to spending money we don’t have. 

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

Teefus

GATraveller said:

I hate that Smithfield sold out....
 

Me too. That hurt. In addition to preferring American ownership I have a family connection. No, I didn’t get any cash. It’s back a few generations. 

Teefus

DoubleEgger said:

I’ve been in a Smithfield plant. If you think what goes on outside is bad, you ought to venture inside. 

The first time I saw a slaughterhouse operation I was horrified. We took 4H hogs there to have them converted into food when I was 12. Between multiple exposures to that and butchering all manner of critters on the farm I numbed to it somewhat. Not sure if that’s good or bad. It just is. 

HeavyG

DoubleEgger said:

China owns over a trillion dollars of US notes. While I sympathize with the plight of the environment in regards to pig farming, this is a needle in the haystack of the bigger picture of our country’s insatiable addiction to spending money we don’t have. 

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

Yeah, but the simple fact is nobody really cares about that.

I would have fully expected that with the GOP holding the Oval Office and the Congress that now would be the time that the "party of fiscal responsibility" would make the debt and deficits their number one priority.

I shocked, shocked I tell you, that this hasn't proven to be true.

DoubleEgger

Teefus said:

DoubleEgger said:

I’ve been in a Smithfield plant. If you think what goes on outside is bad, you ought to venture inside. 

The first time I saw a slaughterhouse operation I was horrified. We took 4H hogs there to have them converted into food when I was 12. Between multiple exposures to that and butchering all manner of critters on the farm I numbed to it somewhat. Not sure if that’s good or bad. It just is. 

It’s not the physical acts that are going on there, I’m talking about the physical conditions of the place. I’ve been to a lot of nasty places over the years, but Smithfield was the second nastiest place I’ve been. Curtis Packing in Greensboro is the hands down winner. Chicken plants don’t even make my Top 10... 

DoubleEgger

HeavyG said:

DoubleEgger said:

China owns over a trillion dollars of US notes. While I sympathize with the plight of the environment in regards to pig farming, this is a needle in the haystack of the bigger picture of our country’s insatiable addiction to spending money we don’t have. 

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

Yeah, but the simple fact is nobody really cares about that.

I would have fully expected that with the GOP holding the Oval Office and the Congress that now would be the time that the "party of fiscal responsibility" would make the debt and deficits their number one priority.

I shocked, shocked I tell you, that this hasn't proven to be true.

Overspending is a bipartisan issue. The fight is over what to spend someone else’s money on. 

DMW

DoubleEgger said:

HeavyG said:

DoubleEgger said:

China owns over a trillion dollars of US notes. While I sympathize with the plight of the environment in regards to pig farming, this is a needle in the haystack of the bigger picture of our country’s insatiable addiction to spending money we don’t have. 

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

Yeah, but the simple fact is nobody really cares about that.

I would have fully expected that with the GOP holding the Oval Office and the Congress that now would be the time that the "party of fiscal responsibility" would make the debt and deficits their number one priority.

I shocked, shocked I tell you, that this hasn't proven to be true.

Overspending is a bipartisan issue. The fight is over what to spend someone else’s money on. 

And also, who to/not collect taxes from.

JohnInCarolina

DoubleEgger said:

China owns over a trillion dollars of US notes. While I sympathize with the plight of the environment in regards to pig farming, this is a needle in the haystack of the bigger picture of our country’s insatiable addiction to spending money we don’t have. 

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

No argument there.  I wasn’t suggesting this was the biggest issue we face, only that I thought folks here would be interested in it.

gonepostal

I remember reading when they sold...and every time i pick up Smithfield products that's always in the back of my mind. That being said...i still scoop up their products pretty often. Thanks for posting...
I'm constantly looking for new sources of either local or better meat options and have had some pretty good luck lately. 

JohnInCarolina

DoubleEgger said:

China owns over a trillion dollars of US notes. While I sympathize with the plight of the environment in regards to pig farming, this is a needle in the haystack of the bigger picture of our country’s insatiable addiction to spending money we don’t have. 

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

The other thing I will say about this is that because China does own so much of our debt, they have considerable leverage when it comes to purchasing companies like Smithfield.  We aren’t exactly in all that great a position to block a whole lot of what they want to do when it comes to matters like this.  It’s an aspect that’s almost never discussed.

baychilla

JohnInCarolina said:

The only "political" thing I'll say about the piece is that it's just astonishing to me that China would seek to purchase a company like Smithfield in the US because our regulations around hog farming are more lax than theirs.  I don't know if that's really true but if it is, WTF are we doing?  

It's probably to offset their shrimp farming.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-12-15/how-antibiotic-tainted-seafood-from-china-ends-up-on-your-table

GATraveller

I agree.  If people are disturbed by the livestock issue then they'd be even more freaked out about the fish/seafood farms.  Disgusting!

Dobie

I don’t by farmed seafood and I stopped buying Smithfield spare ribs a couple years ago, they’re crap. As for who owns a company I could care less it’s a free market mostly but it’s hard to believe our EPA is more lax than Chinas equivalent seeing the toxic foods that come from China back to the US. 

fishlessman

have not been enjoying spares lately, look forward to the cook, buy a rack and cook it, eat maybe 1 or two ribs and im done. thought maybe my tastes were changing but maybe its those smithfeild racks. 

Philly35

GATraveller said:

The "racist" slant of the article is not my lone take-away. 
I hate that Smithfield sold out.  I've said that several times in the past and felt my concerns were dismissed.   Sadly, I think we (as a country) have a fairly long history of outsourcing dirty industry to other places where regulation isn't as tight and costly.  Now that the shoe is on the other foot it kinda stings.
These farms practices are color blind......seeing only green $$.  They exist where land is cheap, plentiful and sparsely populated.  If wealthy caucasian males preferred to live in these same areas the farm practices would continue unchanged.
 

Land is not cheap. You’d be surprised at what people pay for farm land. And btw, there are plenty of wealthy Caucasian males all over the country side here. They’re called farmers. 

YukonRon

There is a government web site that lists the amount of money given to Farmers not to raise crops from our tax dollars. If memory serves me correctly some owners get millions per year (multiple location farms) not to raise crops or livestock.
They lease this land to other farmers to grow whatever they need.
I will try to find it and post it, but it was astonishing to me, how much money was supplied to keep the costs of farmed goods, at a certain level.

alaskanassasin

Philly35 said:

GATraveller said:

The "racist" slant of the article is not my lone take-away. 
I hate that Smithfield sold out.  I've said that several times in the past and felt my concerns were dismissed.   Sadly, I think we (as a country) have a fairly long history of outsourcing dirty industry to other places where regulation isn't as tight and costly.  Now that the shoe is on the other foot it kinda stings.
These farms practices are color blind......seeing only green $$.  They exist where land is cheap, plentiful and sparsely populated.  If wealthy caucasian males preferred to live in these same areas the farm practices would continue unchanged.
 

Land is not cheap. You’d be surprised at what people pay for farm land. And btw, there are plenty of wealthy Caucasian males all over the country side here. They’re called farmers. 

  $7,000 to $10,000 a acre around here. But if you want to buy say 20 acres with plans of making it a hog facility you will likely have to pay more in order to find some one who is willing to sell you land that will, well you read the article.

 

GATraveller

Philly35 said:

GATraveller said:

The "racist" slant of the article is not my lone take-away. 
I hate that Smithfield sold out.  I've said that several times in the past and felt my concerns were dismissed.   Sadly, I think we (as a country) have a fairly long history of outsourcing dirty industry to other places where regulation isn't as tight and costly.  Now that the shoe is on the other foot it kinda stings.
These farms practices are color blind......seeing only green $$.  They exist where land is cheap, plentiful and sparsely populated.  If wealthy caucasian males preferred to live in these same areas the farm practices would continue unchanged.
 

Land is not cheap. You’d be surprised at what people pay for farm land. And btw, there are plenty of wealthy Caucasian males all over the country side here. They’re called farmers. 

I wasn't aware we were discussing the demographics of Iowa farmers.  Oddly enough, I was referring to the attached Rolling Stone article about Smithfield and North Carolina. You should read it.  After that check land price/acre in Warsaw, NC vs. Charlotte then tell me farms are more expensive.   

GATraveller

@Philly35 Yet everything you said is correct in a different conversation. 

The_Stache

Article from the Tennessean this morning indicates a similar situation at Tosh Farms "one of the largest pork producers in the US"....  hmmm

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2018/07/17/animal-abuse-tosh-farms-pigs-undercover-video/788684002/

Botch

Finally had a chance to read the OP's article this afternoon, and everyone's comments tonight.  I'm dead tired and have an early flight in the a.m., so will just post a few thoughts.
 
- the "contracted farming" portion of the story really pissed me off, bumping the infrastructure/environmental/legal costs onto the farmers, while the corporations only owned the pigs themselves, skirting risk and responsibility.  But that's the way business works.
 
- We can't really compare "our" environmental laws to China's, as "our" laws are all over the map just in the US.  Note that China isn't buying up hog farms in IA or UT.  The republicans seem to want to force more control to the states, the democrats more to the fed level, and I can't really be sure how (or even if) this plays in....
 
- Regarding taking advantage of cheap labor in desperate markets, reminded me of some "whoa!" articles in Time recently, regarding prison labor.  Some of the bigger donors to congressional incumbents are from private prison operators.  Sweet deal: get cheap labor to build your products, while the housing/feeding/medical/security/infrastructure costs are borne by the taxpayer, just for a few key donations to the right politicians (lookin' your way, mr. sessions).  
 
Have a great weekend folks, see you Sunday or Monday.   

johnnyp

http://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Smithfield-Foods-closing-last-smokehouse-for-Smithfield-ham-488835611.html

johnnyp

I live about an hour from Smithfield and for anyone interested, there is another local VA owned Ham shop called Edwards.

https://www.edwardsvaham.com/

Personally, I prefer their product and have had the opportunity to meet several members of the Edwards family.  Upstanding people and still locally produced.