OT - I’m done with Sous Vide

nolaegghead

Man, if I made a final decision on my big green egg based on my first cook, I would have beat the crap out of it with a mallet and moved on.  

(my first BGE cook sucked, fed it to the neighbor's dogs)

If any of you tried my SV dishes, not knowing it was partially cooked with SV, you would swear it was just perfectly cooked on a smoker or grill.  

Sure, there's a problem with people thinking more this or that in a SV is better, but even though the window is large in hitting your targets via SV, there are an infinite scenarios where you can screw up. 

I have spent countless (hyperbole, but many) cooks experimenting with the extremes, learning the trends with time and temperature.  I've screwed up many, many times.  But I learned.  Reading the meat texture and quality, evaluating what your target is and adjusting the cook parameters, not just the SV, but the entire process from salt, temp, time in water, time on smoker or grill...it's an arduous process, but I feel fairly proficient with it and I use it to cut some corners with time in big cooks, or for doing something specific that's difficult or impossible with an oven or grill. 

I remember vividly how Little Steven got one, used it once to cook a roast or something for, like, 48 hours at some temp under 130.  He basically created a rotten sack of meat.  Upon opening, he almost puked, chucked it in his neighbor's trash can and put the unit in the attic. (some creative story telling may be involved here).  

Anyway, you're eating some of your best meals in fine restaurants with food made from this tool.  It is a tool.  Just because you have a table saw doesn't mean you're going to make a beautiful shaker table.  

caliking

@blind99 re: salmon what temp and times have you tried? 135F x 40mins , then quick sear in a pan usually does it for me. 

And you’re not alone as far as SV yogurt goes  

HeavyG

When I was a kid I took a piano lesson. At the end of the lesson I couldn't play Chopin’s “Etude in G# minor, Op.25; No.6” so I quit. Stupid piano.

Focker

When called to the carpet, always defer to Serious Eats, or Rose McGowan.

johnnyp

JohnInCarolina said:

It really depends on how the breast is going to be used.  Here's a pretty good guide:

https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast.html

But different people prefer different textures when it comes to chicken.  What I do isn't necessarily what everyone else will like.  That's why there's a lot of value in exploring on your own.  

Then some people just like dry chicken, because that's what they grew up eating, and the added value of SV is probably minimal.  Nothing wrong with that either.  Certain tastes are acquired.  

John, do you have an opinion to seasonings in the bag?  There is a school of thought that when you season in-bag, it is merely a surface treatment and only salt permeates the meat. 

I'm inclined to agree with the food science, but also sometimes feel that my SV food can come out bland.

http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/dye.html

johnnyp

@nolaegghead same question ^^^

fishlessman

what temp and time for chicken thighs that will later get fried with breading. if theres one chicken dish i want to get right its a buffalo sauced fried chicken sandwich with thigh meat. most directions i see are for breast meat.

johnnyp

fishlessman said:

what temp and time for chicken thighs that will later get fried with breading. if theres one chicken dish i want to get right its a buffalo sauced fried chicken sandwich with thigh meat. most directions i see are for breast meat.

When you say later...how much later.

One of the cool things with SV protein is the ability for prolonged hold times.  If you process to pasteurization, you can shock cold and it will keep for a couple weeks in the fridge.  (as long as you don't open the bag and introduce outside pathogens)

Then, you can take an already-cooked chicken thigh, bread it, fry it to golden brown and be done.  This method doesn't require you worrying about the doneness of the chicken and the IT only needs to be mouth-hot for the eater's comfort.

Use this resource for pasteurization times.

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Table_5.1

SonVolt

johnnyp said:

JohnInCarolina said:

It really depends on how the breast is going to be used.  Here's a pretty good guide:

https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast.html

But different people prefer different textures when it comes to chicken.  What I do isn't necessarily what everyone else will like.  That's why there's a lot of value in exploring on your own.  

Then some people just like dry chicken, because that's what they grew up eating, and the added value of SV is probably minimal.  Nothing wrong with that either.  Certain tastes are acquired.  

John, do you have an opinion to seasonings in the bag?  There is a school of thought that when you season in-bag, it is merely a surface treatment and only salt permeates the meat. 

I'm inclined to agree with the food science, but also sometimes feel that my SV food can come out bland.

http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/dye.html

This is a misinterpretation of the findings. Yes, only salt works itself into the interior, but - whatever else you add is still flavoring the protein. Think of rubs... they're also just "surface treatments" but they provide a lot of flavor.  If I add a few sprigs of thyme or rosemary in the SV bag then there's a very pronounced thyme or rosemary flavor in the final product. Do I really care if it only permeated the meat by .0002 of an inch? I think a better interpretation of the food science is that, for example, a 24 hour marinade isn't going pack in more flavor than say a 1 hour marinade, except for the salt brine. 

fishlessman

johnnyp said:

fishlessman said:

what temp and time for chicken thighs that will later get fried with breading. if theres one chicken dish i want to get right its a buffalo sauced fried chicken sandwich with thigh meat. most directions i see are for breast meat.

When you say later...how much later.

One of the cool things with SV protein is the ability for prolonged hold times.  If you process to pasteurization, you can shock cold and it will keep for a couple weeks in the fridge.  (as long as you don't open the bag and introduce outside pathogens)

Then, you can take an already-cooked chicken thigh, bread it, fry it to golden brown and be done.  This method doesn't require you worrying about the doneness of the chicken and the IT only needs to be mouth-hot for the eater's comfort.

Use this resource for pasteurization times.

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Table_5.1

i havent zeroed in on the texture part with boneless thighs.  where im at is multiple bags loosely paked in one layer trying to keep them flat while in the water bag,  then an iced water bath to cool, then in the fridge for a day or two and fry. have seen a vid were the fridge part the thighs are additionally pressed between pans or plates. first couple of tries i just put them in the bag and they balled up, no good for the sandwich.  its texture that i dont have down, almost thinking i need to waste a pack of thighs and pull them out in intervals of hours to see where i need to be

JohnInCarolina

johnnyp said:

JohnInCarolina said:

It really depends on how the breast is going to be used.  Here's a pretty good guide:

https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast.html

But different people prefer different textures when it comes to chicken.  What I do isn't necessarily what everyone else will like.  That's why there's a lot of value in exploring on your own.  

Then some people just like dry chicken, because that's what they grew up eating, and the added value of SV is probably minimal.  Nothing wrong with that either.  Certain tastes are acquired.  

John, do you have an opinion to seasonings in the bag?  There is a school of thought that when you season in-bag, it is merely a surface treatment and only salt permeates the meat. 

I'm inclined to agree with the food science, but also sometimes feel that my SV food can come out bland.

http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/dye.html

I generally add seasoning in the bag, but I don’t think you get a whole lot of penetration like you would say with a long marinade.   Without any, however, I agree with you - it’s fairly bland.

johnnyp

SonVolt said:

johnnyp said:

JohnInCarolina said:

It really depends on how the breast is going to be used.  Here's a pretty good guide:

https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast.html

But different people prefer different textures when it comes to chicken.  What I do isn't necessarily what everyone else will like.  That's why there's a lot of value in exploring on your own.  

Then some people just like dry chicken, because that's what they grew up eating, and the added value of SV is probably minimal.  Nothing wrong with that either.  Certain tastes are acquired.  

John, do you have an opinion to seasonings in the bag?  There is a school of thought that when you season in-bag, it is merely a surface treatment and only salt permeates the meat. 

I'm inclined to agree with the food science, but also sometimes feel that my SV food can come out bland.

http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/dye.html

This is a misinterpretation of the findings. Yes, only salt works itself into the interior, but - whatever else you add is still flavoring the protein. Think of rubs... they're also just "surface treatments" but they provide a lot of flavor.  If I add a few sprigs of thyme or rosemary in the SV bag then there's a very pronounced thyme or rosemary flavor in the final product. Do I really care if it only permeated the meat by .0002 of an inch? I think a better interpretation of the food science is that, for example, a 24 hour marinade isn't going pack in more flavor than say a 1 hour marinade, except for the salt brine. 

Perhaps I phrased my question wrong.   I'm not implying that seasoning your food doesn't provide value. 

Rather, I'm asking if anyone believes there is a discernable difference to seasoning in the bag, versus SVing the protein naked, then seasoning for the finishing phase of cooking. 

SonVolt

Yes, there is a discernible difference. Try adding a few springs of rosemary to a steak with a small pat of butter. The Rosemary flavor will be much more pronounced than added after the fact, during basting or whatever. 

Killit_and_Grillit

@johnnyp I did this a few months ago to appease my curiosity. I cooked one pork tenderloin then seasoned and seared and one seasoned, cooked, seared. 

I used Mickeys coffee rub. The coffee flavor was way more intense when it sat in the Sous Vide. But, much saltier. Now I try to leave salt out of the bag. 

I also seasoned that brisket I tried your way before. Used DP Red Eye on it. After 3 days it was pretty intense. 

blind99

caliking said:

@blind99 re: salmon what temp and times have you tried? 135F x 40mins , then quick sear in a pan usually does it for me. 

And you’re not alone as far as SV yogurt goes  

@caliking 120, per kenji/chefsteps.  Funny you say 135, that's the IT I go for when I do salmon, so I'll give it a whirl. 

We eat salmon about once a week. Season w raging river, flesh side down in cast iron, then flip and into the oven for about 15 minutes.  super easy.  or essentially same process on the egg minus the CI.

caliking

fishlessman said:

johnnyp said:

fishlessman said:

what temp and time for chicken thighs that will later get fried with breading. if theres one chicken dish i want to get right its a buffalo sauced fried chicken sandwich with thigh meat. most directions i see are for breast meat.

When you say later...how much later.

One of the cool things with SV protein is the ability for prolonged hold times.  If you process to pasteurization, you can shock cold and it will keep for a couple weeks in the fridge.  (as long as you don't open the bag and introduce outside pathogens)

Then, you can take an already-cooked chicken thigh, bread it, fry it to golden brown and be done.  This method doesn't require you worrying about the doneness of the chicken and the IT only needs to be mouth-hot for the eater's comfort.

Use this resource for pasteurization times.

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Table_5.1

i havent zeroed in on the texture part with boneless thighs.  where im at is multiple bags loosely paked in one layer trying to keep them flat while in the water bag,  then an iced water bath to cool, then in the fridge for a day or two and fry. have seen a vid were the fridge part the thighs are additionally pressed between pans or plates. first couple of tries i just put them in the bag and they balled up, no good for the sandwich.  its texture that i dont have down, almost thinking i need to waste a pack of thighs and pull them out in intervals of hours to see where i need to be

Try 160F x 2hrs as a starting point and go from there. If you’re experimenting with a whole pack maybe start at 150F x 1hr and try increasing time and temp going forward. 

Also, if keeping them flat is key, run bamboo skewers through the thighs. Clip the ends so just a bit of the skewer is left poking out of the meat. Should keep the bags from getting punctured, and the thighs should stay flat in the fridge. 

Get the oil up to 375F or even 400F before frying, depending on how many you’re frying at once. Lastly, double frying will make them much crunchier. 

caliking

blind99 said:

caliking said:

@blind99 re: salmon what temp and times have you tried? 135F x 40mins , then quick sear in a pan usually does it for me. 

And you’re not alone as far as SV yogurt goes  

@caliking 120, per kenji/chefsteps.  Funny you say 135, that's the IT I go for when I do salmon, so I'll give it a whirl. 

We eat salmon about once a week. Season w raging river, flesh side down in cast iron, then flip and into the oven for about 15 minutes.  super easy.  or essentially same process on the egg minus the CI.

You’ll probably like the higher SV temp then. I tried salmon at 120-125 and it didn’t do anything for me either. 

fishlessman

caliking said:

fishlessman said:

johnnyp said:

fishlessman said:

what temp and time for chicken thighs that will later get fried with breading. if theres one chicken dish i want to get right its a buffalo sauced fried chicken sandwich with thigh meat. most directions i see are for breast meat.

When you say later...how much later.

One of the cool things with SV protein is the ability for prolonged hold times.  If you process to pasteurization, you can shock cold and it will keep for a couple weeks in the fridge.  (as long as you don't open the bag and introduce outside pathogens)

Then, you can take an already-cooked chicken thigh, bread it, fry it to golden brown and be done.  This method doesn't require you worrying about the doneness of the chicken and the IT only needs to be mouth-hot for the eater's comfort.

Use this resource for pasteurization times.

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Table_5.1

i havent zeroed in on the texture part with boneless thighs.  where im at is multiple bags loosely paked in one layer trying to keep them flat while in the water bag,  then an iced water bath to cool, then in the fridge for a day or two and fry. have seen a vid were the fridge part the thighs are additionally pressed between pans or plates. first couple of tries i just put them in the bag and they balled up, no good for the sandwich.  its texture that i dont have down, almost thinking i need to waste a pack of thighs and pull them out in intervals of hours to see where i need to be

Try 160F x 2hrs as a starting point and go from there. If you’re experimenting with a whole pack maybe start at 150F x 1hr and try increasing time and temp going forward. 

Also, if keeping them flat is key, run bamboo skewers through the thighs. Clip the ends so just a bit of the skewer is left poking out of the meat. Should keep the bags from getting punctured, and the thighs should stay flat in the fridge. 

Get the oil up to 375F or even 400F before frying, depending on how many you’re frying at once. Lastly, double frying will make them much crunchier. 

sounds like a plan. maybe 160 x 2 and 4, and 170 x 2 and 4.    might put them on a double skewer and whack them with a frying pan too, they shorten and thicken a bit much in the sousvide.

nolaegghead

johnnyp said:

@nolaegghead same question ^^^

I don't salt pork, it gets weird, to me at least.  Salt on everything else, but not too much.  Seasoning is fine, but I'll always season after SV.  The aromatics can get dull in the bag.  I learned not to use fresh garlic, gets acrid.  Powdered is fine. 

Tbonez3858

I'm not a huge SV fan but I won't ever go without a SV setup. There are very few things I make that I would put up against the professional chef. I'm a French toast connoisseur and I've never eaten as good of French toast as SV French toast...

theyolksonyou

Fried eggs are the best from the SV 

saluki2007

How is this a thing. Won't it cause cancer?

jeffwit

I bought mine from BB&B. That’s prolly why I hate it. 

jeffwit

.

bgebrent

@DoubleEgger's skillset is limited.  Keep that in mind when contemplating this thread.  SV has it's place, a limited place in smoking/grilling.  I does have a place.

blasting

jeffwit said:

I bought mine from BB&B. That’s prolly why I hate it. 

What bothers you more - grills sold at BB&B, or Sous Vide sold at Home Depot.  They both sell towels - crazy but true

johnnyp

bgebrent said:

 I does have a place.

Yes, yes you do

Lit

Did you call Anova? Mine cracked so I called them and they sent me a new one and it wasn’t the WiFi one and they sent me another one now I have two.