OT - OT - OT OT 2018 World Cup, Who ya got? If you even care OT - OT - OT - OT

TideEggHead

The_Stache said:

TideEggHead said:

That Belgium game this morning was certainly fun to watch!

The last goal by Tunisia was pretty unexpected but overall a GREAT action filled game to watch!

For sure, it’s also nice to see a team not quit even though they were down 4 goals.

Foghorn

Yep.  Great game.  I've believed that Belgium is not deep enough.  But I may be wrong.

Question - as a coach do you look at Batshuayi's performance and say "You had a lot of chances and blew almost all of them so I'm not going to play you as much - because I can find someone who can convert those opportunities" - or "you created a lot of chances and I'm confident that you will convert them if given enough opportunity so I'm going to figure out a way to get you in the game more"?

The_Stache

Foghorn said:

Yep.  Great game.  I've believed that Belgium is not deep enough.  But I may be wrong.

Question - as a coach do you look at Batshuayi's performance and say "You had a lot of chances and blew almost all of them so I'm not going to play you as much - because I can find someone who can convert those opportunities" - or "you created a lot of chances and I'm confident that you will convert them if given enough opportunity so I'm going to figure out a way to get you in the game more"?

Batshuayi is a ME player... two goals lost by his non-passing!

The_Stache

Viva MEXICO!!!

CPFC1905

Strikers tend to fall in to categories (poacher, quick, hold-up, aerial threat) and as such are beholden to how the rest of the team services them.  To that end, goals scored (or not) is not the sole factor.   Coaches look at work off the balll, too. In some formations a sole striker will be expected to hold the ball up and feed others. Certainly a hard working striker who pressures the opposition and is involved in 'assists' will stay in the starting XI.  
if you look at Spain in their pomp, they played with no recognised forward but had a very fluid front five / seven.  

The_Stache

@CPFC1905... Lakaku the model of modest team striker with no gumption to be a "ME" player...

Eoin

That was entertaining.

Eoin

Gutted.

YEMTrey

Wow, just wow!

RockyTopDW

Amazing goal for Germany by Kroos. 

Foghorn

CPFC1905 said:

Strikers tend to fall in to categories (poacher, quick, hold-up, aerial threat) and as such are beholden to how the rest of the team services them.  To that end, goals scored (or not) is not the sole factor.   Coaches look at work off the balll, too. In some formations a sole striker will be expected to hold the ball up and feed others. Certainly a hard working striker who pressures the opposition and is involved in 'assists' will stay in the starting XI.  
if you look at Spain in their pomp, they played with no recognised forward but had a very fluid front five / seven.  

I get that.  But nobody has answered my question.  Do you credit Batshuayi for creating opportunities - or do you blame him for missed chances?  Obviously, the answer - on a language level - is "both".  But a coach has to decide who to play.  Do you play him more - or less?

thetrim

Germany survives,

CPFC1905

Foghorn said:

CPFC1905 said:

Strikers tend to fall in to categories (poacher, quick, hold-up, aerial threat) and as such are beholden to how the rest of the team services them.  To that end, goals scored (or not) is not the sole factor.   Coaches look at work off the balll, too. In some formations a sole striker will be expected to hold the ball up and feed others. Certainly a hard working striker who pressures the opposition and is involved in 'assists' will stay in the starting XI.  
if you look at Spain in their pomp, they played with no recognised forward but had a very fluid front five / seven.  

I get that.  But nobody has answered my question.  Do you credit Batshuayi for creating opportunities - or do you blame him for missed chances?  Obviously, the answer - on a language level - is "both".  But a coach has to decide who to play.  Do you play him more - or less?

It is highly subjective and 'both' is the answer, along with the third option of adapting their role.  The saying in football is 'form is temporary, class is permanent'.  Deducing what represents a brief run of good form compared to ambient quality is the tricky bit.  In Micky B's case, the team won't be built around him, unlike at club level. 

Two case studies;
Batshuayi : Lukaku and friends are scoring for fun.  Leave him on the bench as ultimately there is no need to play him.   Coming on as a sub means he'll join a situation, as opposed to a projection - compared to the starters. Batshuayi wins because he can run at a tired defence and will have seen how is team is playing.  His conversion rate will improve, but each striker has a 'mean' rate over time.  Some are more clinical than others, but those who play amongst better teams will get more chances and inevitable score more.  Strikers carrying weak teams often appear worse than they actually are.  
See here: https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-conversion-rates-top-scorers-europes-top-five-leagues/
 

Benteke : Had a very low scoring season with Palace.  Hodgson tried both the options you describe, to moderate effect.  3 goals and 6 assists is not enough for a player of his value and experience. Although Palace had no other available strikers, Hodgson dropped him and played a fluid frontline with Zaha and Townsend (wingers) stepping inside & sharing the role.  Whether by novelty or quality of those two - it worked quite well,  with CM's pushing in to the Number 10 role.    Benteke remained part of Hodgson's plans because he added great value in the 'hold-up, target, assist' role that big centre-forwards are known for.  In match footage he can be seen often creating the space that set's up the official 'assist'.  
The threadbare nature of Palace's squad, at times, gave Hodgson no option  but when the better players came back - he stuck with Benteke for the additional roles he performs.  Therefore he kept playing an ineffective striker.

Eoin

CPFC1905 said:

Foghorn said:

CPFC1905 said:

Strikers tend to fall in to categories (poacher, quick, hold-up, aerial threat) and as such are beholden to how the rest of the team services them.  To that end, goals scored (or not) is not the sole factor.   Coaches look at work off the balll, too. In some formations a sole striker will be expected to hold the ball up and feed others. Certainly a hard working striker who pressures the opposition and is involved in 'assists' will stay in the starting XI.  
if you look at Spain in their pomp, they played with no recognised forward but had a very fluid front five / seven.  

I get that.  But nobody has answered my question.  Do you credit Batshuayi for creating opportunities - or do you blame him for missed chances?  Obviously, the answer - on a language level - is "both".  But a coach has to decide who to play.  Do you play him more - or less?

It is highly subjective and 'both' is the answer, along with the third option of adapting their role.  The saying in football is 'form is temporary, class is permanent'.  Deducing what represents a brief run of good form compared to ambient quality is the tricky bit.  In Micky B's case, the team won't be built around him, unlike at club level. 

Two case studies;
Batshuayi : Lukaku and friends are scoring for fun.  Leave him on the bench as ultimately there is no need to play him.   Coming on as a sub means he'll join a situation, as opposed to a projection - compared to the starters. Batshuayi wins because he can run at a tired defence and will have seen how is team is playing.  His conversion rate will improve, but each striker has a 'mean' rate over time.  Some are more clinical than others, but those who play amongst better teams will get more chances and inevitable score more.  Strikers carrying weak teams often appear worse than they actually are.  
See here: https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-conversion-rates-top-scorers-europes-top-five-leagues/
 

Benteke : Had a very low scoring season with Palace.  Hodgson tried both the options you describe, to moderate effect.  3 goals and 6 assists is not enough for a player of his value and experience. Although Palace had no other available strikers, Hodgson dropped him and played a fluid frontline with Zaha and Townsend (wingers) stepping inside & sharing the role.  Whether by novelty or quality of those two - it worked quite well,  with CM's pushing in to the Number 10 role.    Benteke remained part of Hodgson's plans because he added great value in the 'hold-up, target, assist' role that big centre-forwards are known for.  In match footage he can be seen often creating the space that set's up the official 'assist'.  
The threadbare nature of Palace's squad, at times, gave Hodgson no option  but when the better players came back - he stuck with Benteke for the additional roles he performs.  Therefore he kept playing an ineffective striker.

Woy is a canny operator. Lambert isn't. Using sparse resources well is why you stayed up.

Eoin

I was hoping for 5, just not expecting it in the first half. 

Acn

Eoin said:

I was hoping for 5, just not expecting it in the first half. 

England has looked better than anyone so far.

Acn

And of course we’re reminded that Panama qualified ahead of the US in CONCACAF.  What an embarrassment the USMNT was last year.

CPFC1905

Well, I say!  
Makes the next match interesting.  Both teams through could mean dead rubber.  I think a draw means it will come down to 'fair play', i.e yellow and red cards - then drawing lots.

thetrim

I wish the Belgium England game meant something.   Belgium is the better side would be my guess.  There coach already said he’d be sitting three of his starters.  We‘ll see what happens.  

Eoin

Wait and see if Martinez actually rests players. Boring second half, especially after the great start. Looking forward to the real action in the knock out phase.

thetrim

Uruguay takes the 1A spot.  Russia gets the 2A spot

thetrim

I don't know what to think of Christiano Ronaldo (or ME for that matter) when he has ME pulling for an Iran victory! 

thetrim

Iran v Portugal.  Great match!

lousubcap

Dang- two great finishes this PM. 

thetrim

yeah there was.  I'm glad I'm "working" out of the home office.  Kinda hard to keep track of two at once.

xfire_ATX

Unbelievable Spain and Portugal went 1-2-0.

The_Stache

thetrim said:

yeah there was.  I'm glad I'm "working" out of the home office.  Kinda hard to keep track of two at once.

I'm retired and trying to keep up with two matches on two channels and it's kinda hard to keep up!!!

lousubcap

The_Stache said:

thetrim said:

yeah there was.  I'm glad I'm "working" out of the home office.  Kinda hard to keep track of two at once.

I'm retired and trying to keep up with two matches on two channels and it's kinda hard to keep up!!!

Fortunately four years before the World Cup goes again.  The PIP feature sucks so the constant "previous channel" exercise gets old.  I was "recording" both so I could fast reverse and then fast forward although I did fumble the choice a few times.  
BTW- with the 2026 "host three nations"  who gets the automatic bid??  

thetrim

@lousubcap wait for it.  They all get an automatic bid..  Seriously.  They're expanding the field to 16 group of three or 48 bids.

bgebrent

DMW said:

DoubleEgger said:

bgebrent said:

Soccer/Football is a fascinating game, assuming you’re pre-frontal cortex exists. It is the Beautiful game. Watch out for Brazil. I’d take them over Germany and Spain. Those 3 and France, a winner comes from those. 

Does the pre-frontal cortex control a person’s grammar? 

Football does not require good grammar.  I’m in football mode.