Once again...Zero bark...Frustrated

Tbonez3858

I've had my egg about five years and I am still unable to obtain a decent bark on my pork butts. I've cooked low and slow... I've used higher heat turbo... I've used water in the pan... I've used no water in the pan. I've wrapped and I've not wrapped. I've used sugar filled rubs and I've used minimalist rubs (salt/pepper/paprika/onion salt/garlic). I've used virtually every combination of the above.  I've read just about every suggestion on this forum and so for no success.

I've literally never been able to get a butt past golden brown/red-ish and I've cooked 100s of them. Im able to easily achieve a decent bark on my fathers Yoder pellet and or my old webber by doing nothing more than yard bird rub and 275 until the bone wiggles free. The only difference I can find that Im doing between my cooks and the rest of you is that Im using a WOO like extension from the ceramic store and a indirect stone and not the plate setter. Its indirect cooking and when I measure is only about an inch worth of difference between grate height from the plate setter compared to my rig with a stone. I will use the plate setter for the next cook but I think my time with the egg is closing out. It shouldn't be this hard to get a decent bark on a butt when I can throw it on a Weber or Yoder and knock it out of the park with zero difficulty, stress or experimentation.

I dont mean to come across as a negative Nancy but anyone have any suggestions before I give up hope? Im tired of roasting pork butts instead of smoking them....The meat is good but without bark, its money down the drain. 

For me... Bark = good BBQ.

bikesAndBBQ

Define what you mean by good bark?  Is it color or texture you are going for?  Also, what specific temperatures, internal temperature, rubs and wood have you used? 

SGH

@Tbonez3858
When it comes to bark, we all like something a little different. With that said, this is the “look” that I like for bark. 

If you like the looks of the above bark, I will gladly tell you how to achieve it. It’s actually very, very simple.  
If that’s not what you are looking for, maybe one of the Bark Gods will help you out. 

Edit: The above was cooked on a large BGE using Rockwood lump and the plate setter. No voodoo or trickery. Just meat and heat.  

johnnyp

That's sexy

dmourati

I think the shared wisdom is no water pan, no foil if you are trying to optimize your butt for bark. If you can commit to a lower temp <350F you can include sugar in your rub which should help.

I think I would isolate it down to the rub variable and run everything else as a constant: temp, no foil, no water pan, etc.

MaskedMarvel

From what you’ve posted - the first thing that comes to
mind is: are you opening the lid a lot? Maybe that could be venting surface temps that could be  cooling the surface?

my bark is usually dramatic...

Tbonez3858

SGH said:

When it comes to bark, we all like something a little different. With that said, this is the “look” that I like for bark. 

If you like the looks of the above bark, I will gladly tell you how to achieve it. It’s actually very, very simple.  
If that’s not what you are looking for, maybe one of the Bark Gods will help you out. 

Edit: The above was cooked on a large BGE. 

If I could get anywhere close to that I would be a happy guy. My best results are almost zero texture and the color of a hotdog after its been boiled - LOL

Please do tell.

Tbonez3858

bikesAndBBQ said:

Define what you mean by good bark?  Is it color or texture you are going for?  Also, what specific temperatures, internal temperature, rubs and wood have you used? 

Low and slow - 225-235 until bone wiggles free. No water in the pan. I've used numerous rubs. I typically use Yard bird and add a little sugar. When I run low and slow I will use rap at 165 so I don't pick up too much smoke.

Turbo - 350 until bone wiggles free. No water in the pan. Same rubs as above.

 The following is exactly what Im after....I typically use one of the following methods...

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/84/4b/27/844b27cc497d2186cbd847bec27d401e.jpg

hoosier_egger

Using a CGS AR here. Something doesn't add up

Wolfpack

You aren’t wrapping are you?  

I would suggest calibrating your dome thermo but if you have tried turbo then that eliminates the low heat idea.  

What internal temp temp are you looking for?

fishlessman

the only time i had zero bark was from a cook where i lit the fire from below the lump instead of on top. it was white/tan when done. basting washes it away as well but not like that hideous tan butt.  i get a thick meteor looking type butt normally, indirect 235 dome, no pan, no water, lump lit on top

Tbonez3858

MaskedMarvel said:

From what you’ve posted - the first thing that comes to
mind is: are you opening the lid a lot? Maybe that could be venting surface temps that could be  cooling the surface?

my bark is usually dramatic...
f

I definitely opened the lid more than I should back in the day. I have a cyberq wifi and I literally open the lid to check on the butt at 165. If its low and slow I foil at that point. If its a turbo I check to make sure everything is ok and then let her roll until 200 and start checking the bone.

dmourati

Ohh, just thought of one more pro-bark tip: trim the fat cap. If you expose more of the meat you'll have a better chance for the bark to adhere over more surface area. More surface area means more bark potential.

Tbonez3858

This is my current low and slow that I wrapped at 165. This is the "bark" I get regardless of rub and regardless if I wrap or not...Temp is currently at 183 and climbing. I have another three four hours to go with the wrap but its been smoking forever at 225-235 and there should be a ridiculous bark with the amount of rub and the sugar content when I wrapped at165.

Carolina Q

Don't know. Whether I smoke 'em at 250°, 350° or somewhere in between, I always get a great bark. On my large egg or my Akorn Jr.

Maybe it's your smoke wood. Are you using any? I most often use hickory, but also hickory and oak, once or twice just oak. Seems like more bark (and flavor) with straight hickory.

Akorn Jr Mojo Criollo marinade, no sugar except from the oranges...


Others with more American rub (sugars, s&p, chill pwder, paprika, cumin)...




In looking for these pics, I found them in one of my earlier posts, a reply to YOUR post - from last year! With the same issue! Answers then were to stop foiling and no water in drip pan. In skimming thru that thread, I noticed you said something about using Parkay. You still doing that? I've never heard of anyone doing that. Wonder if that might have an impact.

fishlessman

Tbonez3858 said:

show previous quotes

MaskedMarvel said:

From what you’ve posted - the first thing that comes to
mind is: are you opening the lid a lot? Maybe that could be venting surface temps that could be  cooling the surface?

my bark is usually dramatic...
f

I definitely opened the lid more than I should back in the day. I have a cyberq wifi and I literally open the lid to check on the butt at 165. If its low and slow I foil at that point. If its a turbo I check to make sure everything is ok and then let her roll until 200 and start checking the bone.

if its low and slow, DO NOT foil til you are happy with the bark. i never foil

Tbonez3858

Carolina Q said:

Don't know. Whether I smoke 'em at 250°, 350° or somewhere in between, I always get a great bark. On my large egg or my Akorn Jr.

Maybe it's your smoke wood. Are you using any? I most often use hickory, but also hickory and oak, once or twice just oak. Seems like more bark (and flavor) with straight hickory.

Akorn Jr Mojo Criollo marinade, no sugar except from the oranges...


Others with more American rub (sugars, s&p, chill pwder, paprika, cumin)...




In looking for these pics, I found them in one of my earlier posts, a reply to YOUR post - from last year! With the same issue! Answers then were to stop foiling and no water in drip pan. In skimming thru that thread, I noticed you said something about using Parkay. You still doing that? I've never heard of anyone doing that. Wonder if that might have an impact.

Yep...I took all of the suggestions and tried them. My current butt has no water in the drip pan. That's why Im frustrated. I use mainly apple wood and or very light mesquite. I've never tried hickory. I apologize for the ignorance but how does the type of wood you smoke with effect the bark? I had no idea the wood you smoke with could impact bark....I don't use parkay and never have. I think that's a suggestion someone gave to me but I never tried it.

...and your shoulders look AWESOME!

What bugs me is that I can easily get a good bark on my Pops Yoder doing the same things Im doing on my BGE. It doesn't make any sense. 225 degrees in an enclosure should have similar results...

Carolina Q

Tbonez3858 said:

show previous quotes

When I run low and slow I will use rap at 165 so I don't pick up too much smoke.

Just saw this. Does this mean WRAP? If it does, stop. I thought that had already been discussed. If you want less smoke, use less smoke wood.

Tbonez3858

Carolina Q said:

show previous quotes

Tbonez3858 said:

When I run low and slow I will use rap at 165 so I don't pick up too much smoke.

Just saw this. Does this mean WRAP? If it does, stop. I thought that had already been discussed. If you want less smoke, use less smoke wood.

I've done wrap and no wrap with zero difference in result. If I don't wrap I get the same amount of bark but too much smoke and bitterness.

Tbonez3858

Wolfpack said:

You aren’t wrapping are you?  

I would suggest calibrating your dome thermo but if you have tried turbo then that eliminates the low heat idea.  

What internal temp temp are you looking for?

I start checking the bone at 200 and usually find the bone starts to pull or wiggle at 205...

jtcBoynton

Tbonez3858 said:

This is my current low and slow that I wrapped at 165. This is the "bark" I get regardless of rub and regardless if I wrap or not...Temp is currently at 183 and climbing. I have another three four hours to go with the wrap but its been smoking forever at 225-235 and there should be a ridiculous bark with the amount of rub and the sugar content when I wrapped at165.

Foil prevents bark, foil destroys bark, foil will foil your attempts to get bark.

Thick fat caps are not your friend when going for bark.  

Low temps in an egg are not your friend for getting good bark (aim for 275ºish).

Try a set up of indirect stone, air gapped drip pan (dry), grate, and then butt).

Carolina Q

I don't know if the type of smoke wood does affect bark. Just grasping at possible solutions. It does affect color though.

blasting

Tbonez3858 said:

This is my current low and slow that I wrapped at 165. This is the "bark" I get regardless of rub and regardless if I wrap or not...Temp is currently at 183 and climbing. I have another three four hours to go with the wrap but its been smoking forever at 225-235 and there should be a ridiculous bark with the amount of rub and the sugar content when I wrapped at165.

Something is fundamentally wrong.  I've never had a butt look like this off an egg, or any cooker.

I'd go back to basics.

Calibrate thermo
Preheat egg to 250 and stabilize (no water pan)
2-3 chunks of applewood added same time as protien
Mustard slather
Dizzy Dust
Probes inserted
Close lid and leave closed until about 204 Internal Temp

I wouldn't worry about wrapping until you achieve a cook with too much bark for your liking.  If you follow this, you will get bark, and then you can modify the approach to your own liking.  Best of luck.

hoosier_egger

Tbonez3858 said:

This is my current low and slow that I wrapped at 165. This is the "bark" I get regardless of rub and regardless if I wrap or not...Temp is currently at 183 and climbing. I have another three four hours to go with the wrap but its been smoking forever at 225-235 and there should be a ridiculous bark with the amount of rub and the sugar content when I wrapped at165.

This picture looks like it's lacking in the rub dept.. I usually go pretty heavy on butts and use a binder (mustard)

nolaegghead

You should never wrap unless you are in a hurry or you are happy with the bark, and if you do wrap, use paper.

Tbonez3858

jtcBoynton said:

show previous quotes

Tbonez3858 said:

This is my current low and slow that I wrapped at 165. This is the "bark" I get regardless of rub and regardless if I wrap or not...Temp is currently at 183 and climbing. I have another three four hours to go with the wrap but its been smoking forever at 225-235 and there should be a ridiculous bark with the amount of rub and the sugar content when I wrapped at165.

Foil prevents bark, foil destroys bark, foil will foil your attempts to get bark.

Thick fat caps are not your friend when going for bark.  

Low temps in an egg are not your friend for getting good bark (aim for 275ºish).

Try a set up of indirect stone, air gapped drip pan (dry), grate, and then butt).

I dont recall ever smoking a butt without the fat cap so that could be one of my problems. I don't use foil about 60% of the time so I don't think that is my problem. I wonder if the fat cap is dripping all over the meat and preventing the bark. You've suggested trimming and one other forum member suggested the same so I will definitely give that a shot. I will dance around the egg in a chicken suit at this point if it gets me any resemblance of a bark LOL...

blasting

Tbonez3858 said:  I will dance around the egg in a chicken suit at this point 

Please be sure to take a video of the chicken suit dance around the egg.  That's a gif that could come in useful on a Friday night thread.

R2Egg2Q

Are you spritzing or applying a mop?  Are you adding liquid to wrap and if so how much? That butt looks like it either didn’t have enough rub, was wrapped too early, something diluted the rub/bark, or some combination.

VC_Outlaw

To add bark and decrease smoke, I agree with what has been stated above:
1. Use more rub than pictured above
2. Wait for clean blue smoke
3. Do not add any wood, charcoal only
4. Do not foil
Good luck

EggMcMic

I gotta think that the wrapping is making the difference. I have tried a number of ways but I got away from wrapping and a pan of water when I found that my bark suffered. I have also found that when I FTC for longer times it affects by bark. Still there, but less...bark-y? Food for thought.

fishlessman

Tbonez3858 said:

show previous quotes

jtcBoynton said:

Tbonez3858 said:

This is my current low and slow that I wrapped at 165. This is the "bark" I get regardless of rub and regardless if I wrap or not...Temp is currently at 183 and climbing. I have another three four hours to go with the wrap but its been smoking forever at 225-235 and there should be a ridiculous bark with the amount of rub and the sugar content when I wrapped at165.

Foil prevents bark, foil destroys bark, foil will foil your attempts to get bark.

Thick fat caps are not your friend when going for bark.  

Low temps in an egg are not your friend for getting good bark (aim for 275ºish).

Try a set up of indirect stone, air gapped drip pan (dry), grate, and then butt).

I dont recall ever smoking a butt without the fat cap so that could be one of my problems. I don't use foil about 60% of the time so I don't think that is my problem. I wonder if the fat cap is dripping all over the meat and preventing the bark. You've suggested trimming and one other forum member suggested the same so I will definitely give that a shot. I will dance around the egg in a chicken suit at this point if it gets me any resemblance of a bark LOL...

the fat cap, especially if on top, will melt,runnoff, and wash away the rub. cut it off, i cut it completely off