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Still My Nemesis

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  • tarheelmatt
    tarheelmatt Posts: 9,867
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    I'm by no means a Centex or Cazzy, but I've made many mistakes.  I've cut my teeth on mostly choice briskets until recently with Costco primes.  

    Keep at it buddy, you'll get it.  
    ------------------------------
    Thomasville, NC
    My YouTube Channel - The Hungry Hussey
    Instagram
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    My Photography Site
  • Focker
    Focker Posts: 8,364
    edited July 2017
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    That is a great looking PR but it's just not the same. I don't eat a lot of brisket anymore but I still enjoy cooking them for others and I still very much appreciate the great bites I get at our local spots from time to time. Something magic about the perfect bark/salt/fat ratios and it's hard to do. I think that is where the chase lies with most. Telling someone to cook a prime rib with mashed potatoes because they can't nail a brisket is like telling someone to cook a pork chop with applesauce if they don't know how to do a shoulder. 
    No sir, you're using a poor analogy.
    Loins and shoulders are both actually great cuts, like PR, unlike brisket...which was my point.

    Those ratios you speak of pertain to cooking in general bud.  I don't see the magic in brisket, that is all.  And I've cooked, and viewed enough pics from posts through the years to lead to that conclusion.  My money, time, and effort is best used elsewhere.  It simply doesn't do anything for me, it's one dimensional.  

    I know I'm in the minority, but if I were to come down there, which I will at some point, waiting at Franklins wouldn't be at the top of my foodie list in Austin.  

    Whatever floats your boat, it's all gravy. 
    But it's okay to quit brisket.
    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 31,187
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    The journey is most of the fun, in my view, although actually nailing a brisket is pretty friggin awesome as well.
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
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    It is shocking to me how many of the new egg owners that we deal with rush right into cooking a brisket flat no less???? I always advise poultry and pork until they have at least gained a level of competence with the egg. They just do not understand the what they are up against. They often rush out and buy an inferior grade of brisket and proceed to frustrate themselves
  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 31,187
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    It is shocking to me how many of the new egg owners that we deal with rush right into cooking a brisket flat no less???? 
    AND THEN THEY BOIL IT!
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
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    It is shocking to me how many of the new egg owners that we deal with rush right into cooking a brisket flat no less???? 
    AND THEN THEY BOIL IT!
    Oh the horror!!!
  • Focker
    Focker Posts: 8,364
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    It is shocking to me how many of the new egg owners that we deal with rush right into cooking a brisket flat no less???? I always advise poultry and pork until they have at least gained a level of competence with the egg. They just do not understand the what they are up against. They often rush out and buy an inferior grade of brisket and proceed to frustrate themselves
    Solid advising for new eggers.  
    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 31,187
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    cazzy said:
    It is shocking to me how many of the new egg owners that we deal with rush right into cooking a brisket flat no less???? I always advise poultry and pork until they have at least gained a level of competence with the egg. They just do not understand the what they are up against. They often rush out and buy an inferior grade of brisket and proceed to frustrate themselves

    Great advice!  IMO, the first cook should almost always be a Boston Butt.  It's the easiest and most unchallenging cook there is, so it's perfect for someone new to the egg or BBQ game.
    Well and let's be honest, some people never get much beyond this.  Some folks have and always will be the "path of least resistance" types.
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
  • theyolksonyou
    theyolksonyou Posts: 18,459
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    cazzy said:
    It is shocking to me how many of the new egg owners that we deal with rush right into cooking a brisket flat no less???? I always advise poultry and pork until they have at least gained a level of competence with the egg. They just do not understand the what they are up against. They often rush out and buy an inferior grade of brisket and proceed to frustrate themselves

    Great advice!  IMO, the first cook should almost always be a Boston Butt.  It's the easiest and most unchallenging cook there is, so it's perfect for someone new to the egg or BBQ game.
    Well and let's be honest, some people never get much beyond this.  Some folks have and always will be the "path of least resistance" types.
    Or the "I don't like this so all you guys are **** idiots" camp. 
  • SSQUAL612
    SSQUAL612 Posts: 1,186
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    And when all else fails just keep in mind...it'll all make a turd. 
    Tyler, TX   XL BGE 2016, KJ Classic 2019,  MES, 18.5 WSM,  Akorn Jr,  36"&17" Black Stone, Adj Rig, Woo, Grill Grates, SS Smokeware Cap, KAB,  FB 300, Thermapen 
  • theyolksonyou
    theyolksonyou Posts: 18,459
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    SSQUAL612 said:
    And when all else fails just keep in mind...it'll all make a turd. 
    Lmao
  • Focker
    Focker Posts: 8,364
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    cazzy said:
    It is shocking to me how many of the new egg owners that we deal with rush right into cooking a brisket flat no less???? I always advise poultry and pork until they have at least gained a level of competence with the egg. They just do not understand the what they are up against. They often rush out and buy an inferior grade of brisket and proceed to frustrate themselves

    Great advice!  IMO, the first cook should almost always be a Boston Butt.  It's the easiest and most unchallenging cook there is, so it's perfect for someone new to the egg or BBQ game.
    Well and let's be honest, some people never get much beyond this.  Some folks have and always will be the "path of least resistance" types.
    Or the "If you don't like this, you are a**** idiot" camp. 
    FTFU
    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • Focker
    Focker Posts: 8,364
    edited July 2017
    Options
    Focker said:
    That is a great looking PR but it's just not the same. I don't eat a lot of brisket anymore but I still enjoy cooking them for others and I still very much appreciate the great bites I get at our local spots from time to time. Something magic about the perfect bark/salt/fat ratios and it's hard to do. I think that is where the chase lies with most. Telling someone to cook a prime rib with mashed potatoes because they can't nail a brisket is like telling someone to cook a pork chop with applesauce if they don't know how to do a shoulder. 
    No sir, you're using a poor analogy.
    Loins and shoulders are both actually great cuts, like PR, unlike brisket...which was my point.

    Those ratios you speak of pertain to cooking in general bud.  I don't see the magic in brisket, that is all.  And I've cooked, and viewed enough pics from posts through the years to lead to that conclusion.  My money, time, and effort is best used elsewhere.  It simply doesn't do anything for me, it's one dimensional.  

    I know I'm in the minority, but if I were to come down there, which I will at some point, waiting at Franklins wouldn't be at the top of my foodie list in Austin.  

    Whatever floats your boat, it's all gravy. 
    But it's okay to quit brisket.
    I agree that it is ok to quit. Most people do when they can't get it right. I guess my point was he was asking for help to get better. The fact you don't like it is fine. I don't like eating it much either these days. A lot of years chasing so I've kind of had my fill. I still like helping others that are interested in trying to get better. It's a long way from making chicken salad from chicken sh*t. A perfect brisket is the holy grail for many people who want to be good at doing bbq. It's still a ton of fun to nail one even after all the years of doing them. 
    For the record I have gotten it right, and still quit.

    For me, I like to follow recipes, but ad lib too.  Or learn the techniques, flavor bases, and create your own, like stir frying.

    But repeatablility, consistency is huge.  This is where the cut itself, and cooking technique, come into play.  The trim job alone, speaks volumes about what you're getting into.  

    Age, smoke a PR until it hits 120, rest, slice, done.
    No silly brisket jiggle, no hanging a slice on a knife for a good measure fallacy.  No probe until it feels like butter nonsense.  Foil, no foil, paper, how long to ftc....and you thought the nonsense was over after the cook. lol      

    If you cook ten briskets, and are lucky to only nail one, why go through the trouble of beating your head on the wall, hoping the brisket gods show mercy?

    Serving yourself, family, friends, guests, boot leather 9/10 times sucks.
    In a way, I'm helping.  ;)
    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,722
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    There is a lot of brisket knowledge here (some of it may have a questionable pedigree...) and for the first several years of smoking protein all I could find were flats.  When you hit the very infrequent home-run (or triple) it was enough to keep you in the game.  I have hosed up more than my fair share but once I found a solid packer source the entire landscape changed.  Yup, still hosed a few but the hit to strike-out ratio went way up.   As I mentioned above, when you bring it home it is quite rewarding.  
    I appreciate the challenge that every cut brings to the game.  Never gets old for me.  
    Off soap-box.  
    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • cazzy
    cazzy Posts: 9,136
    edited July 2017
    Options
    Focker said:
    That is a great looking PR but it's just not the same. I don't eat a lot of brisket anymore but I still enjoy cooking them for others and I still very much appreciate the great bites I get at our local spots from time to time. Something magic about the perfect bark/salt/fat ratios and it's hard to do. I think that is where the chase lies with most. Telling someone to cook a prime rib with mashed potatoes because they can't nail a brisket is like telling someone to cook a pork chop with applesauce if they don't know how to do a shoulder. 
    No sir, you're using a poor analogy.
    Loins and shoulders are both actually great cuts, like PR, unlike brisket...which was my point.

    Those ratios you speak of pertain to cooking in general bud.  I don't see the magic in brisket, that is all.  And I've cooked, and viewed enough pics from posts through the years to lead to that conclusion.  My money, time, and effort is best used elsewhere.  It simply doesn't do anything for me, it's one dimensional.  

    I know I'm in the minority, but if I were to come down there, which I will at some point, waiting at Franklins wouldn't be at the top of my foodie list in Austin.  

    Whatever floats your boat, it's all gravy. 
    But it's okay to quit brisket.
    I agree that it is ok to quit. Most people do when they can't get it right. I guess my point was he was asking for help to get better. The fact you don't like it is fine. I don't like eating it much either these days. A lot of years chasing so I've kind of had my fill. I still like helping others that are interested in trying to get better. It's a long way from making chicken salad from chicken sh*t. A perfect brisket is the holy grail for many people who want to be good at doing bbq. It's still a ton of fun to nail one even after all the years of doing them. 

    Kind of reminds me of why they invented Participation Trophies.  It was too hard and too competitive, so June said "hey, let's give little Johnny a trophy so he doesn't quit and go play Dungeons & Dragons in his basement."

    So, if it gets a wittle tough, smoke a BB or in Focker's case...a Prime Rib.
    Just a hack that makes some $hitty BBQ....
  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 31,187
    Options
    The point is to learn and gradually get better.   The fact that it's not easy is part of what makes it rewarding, at least in my opinion.  

    If after years trying 9/10 are still coming out lousy, well, sometimes it is the Indian and not the arrow.
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
  • ColtsFan
    ColtsFan Posts: 6,388
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    The point is to learn and gradually get better.   The fact that it's not easy is part of what makes it rewarding, at least in my opinion.  

    If after years trying 9/10 are still coming out lousy, well, sometimes it is the Indian and not the arrow.
    Absolutely agree. It wouldn't be as nearly rewarding if it were a simple, easy process
    ~ John - https://www.instagram.com/hoosier_egger
    XL BGE, LG BGE, KJ Jr, PK Original, Ardore Pizza Oven, King Disc 
    Bloomington, IN - Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoosiers!

  • Focker
    Focker Posts: 8,364
    Options
    The point is to learn and gradually get better.   The fact that it's not easy is part of what makes it rewarding, at least in my opinion.  

    If after years trying 9/10 are still coming out lousy, well, sometimes it is the Indian and not the arrow.
    Let me guess, you're nailing 9 out of 10 right?
    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    Options
    Focker said:
    Focker said:
    That is a great looking PR but it's just not the same. I don't eat a lot of brisket anymore but I still enjoy cooking them for others and I still very much appreciate the great bites I get at our local spots from time to time. Something magic about the perfect bark/salt/fat ratios and it's hard to do. I think that is where the chase lies with most. Telling someone to cook a prime rib with mashed potatoes because they can't nail a brisket is like telling someone to cook a pork chop with applesauce if they don't know how to do a shoulder. 
    No sir, you're using a poor analogy.
    Loins and shoulders are both actually great cuts, like PR, unlike brisket...which was my point.

    Those ratios you speak of pertain to cooking in general bud.  I don't see the magic in brisket, that is all.  And I've cooked, and viewed enough pics from posts through the years to lead to that conclusion.  My money, time, and effort is best used elsewhere.  It simply doesn't do anything for me, it's one dimensional.  

    I know I'm in the minority, but if I were to come down there, which I will at some point, waiting at Franklins wouldn't be at the top of my foodie list in Austin.  

    Whatever floats your boat, it's all gravy. 
    But it's okay to quit brisket.
    I agree that it is ok to quit. Most people do when they can't get it right. I guess my point was he was asking for help to get better. The fact you don't like it is fine. I don't like eating it much either these days. A lot of years chasing so I've kind of had my fill. I still like helping others that are interested in trying to get better. It's a long way from making chicken salad from chicken sh*t. A perfect brisket is the holy grail for many people who want to be good at doing bbq. It's still a ton of fun to nail one even after all the years of doing them. 
    For the record I have gotten it right, and still quit.

    For me, I like to follow recipes, but ad lib too.  Or learn the techniques, flavor bases, and create your own, like stir frying.

    But repeatablility, consistency is huge.  This is where the cut itself, and cooking technique, come into play.  The trim job alone, speaks volumes about what you're getting into.  

    Age, smoke a PR until it hits 120, rest, slice, done.
    No silly brisket jiggle, no hanging a slice on a knife for a good measure.  No probe until it feels like butter nonsense.  Foil, no foil, paper, how long to ftc....and you thought the nonsense was over after the cook. lol      

    If you cook ten briskets, and are lucky to only nail one, why go through the trouble of beating your head on the wall, hoping the brisket gods show mercy?

    Serving yourself, family, friends, guests, shoe leather 9/10 times sucks.
    In a way, I'm helping.  ;)
    Ha!  That would suck. I get it. 
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
  • Focker
    Focker Posts: 8,364
    edited July 2017
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    Would love to see a highlight reel of all these nailed briskets.

    From what I recall, the Brisket Throwdown post didn't make me a believer.  :o

    Post 'em up!
    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • cazzy
    cazzy Posts: 9,136
    edited July 2017
    Options
    Focker said:
    Would love to see a highlight reel of all these nailed briskets.

    From what I recall, the Brisket Throwdown post didn't make me a believer.

    Post 'em up!

    Focker said:
    For the record I have gotten it right, and still quit.

    I think it makes more sense for us to start here.  Post 'em up and make us a believer that you're not just a quitter.
    Just a hack that makes some $hitty BBQ....
  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 31,187
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    Focker said:
    The point is to learn and gradually get better.   The fact that it's not easy is part of what makes it rewarding, at least in my opinion.  

    If after years trying 9/10 are still coming out lousy, well, sometimes it is the Indian and not the arrow.
    Let me guess, you're nailing 9 out of 10 right?
    Hardly, it's just that 9/10 are a long way from  shoe leather.  I've learned a lot and, on average, my briskets are now a lot better than they were when I started.  That's all.  It probably helps that I'm not a complete idiot.
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
  • thetrim
    thetrim Posts: 11,373
    Options
    Keep at it and you'll get it.  I hosed e up until I started bringing HEB primes back home in my carry on bags when visiting family from Texas.  They've all came out maybe not perfect but pretty darn spectacular!
    =======================================
    XL 6/06, Mini 6/12, L 10/12, Mini #2 12/14 MiniMax 3/16 Large #2 11/20 Legacy from my FIL - RIP
    Tampa Bay, FL
    EIB 6 Oct 95
  • 20stone
    20stone Posts: 1,961
    edited July 2017
    Options
    ColtsFan said:
    @tarheelmatt Costco Prime. Wrapped in paper at 165. Pulled at 205, FTC for 2 hours 
    YBMV, but 205 is usually too far for brisket I do.  Normally, the fattier/better they are, the lower temp to done.  My cheaty brisket in the other thread was an SRF black, and it came off at 189F (wrapped in paper at 160ish). 

    http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/comment/2169625#Comment_2169625

    I am also a strong advocate of a water pan.  I started using them for plate ribs, and find it makes a real difference. Injecting, however, is heresy (though I'll still have a bite if you don't tell me).

    You might just start giving em a shake at 190 and keep testing til it feels right. 

    Good luck.  It's a trickey one to get right. 
    (now only 16 stone)

    Joule SV
    GE induction stove
    Gasser by the community pool (currently unavailable)
    Scale (which one of my friends refuses to use)
    Friends with BGEs and myriad other fired devices (currently unavail IRL)
    Occasional access to a KBQ and Webber Kettle
    Charcuterie and sourdough enthusiast
    Prosciuttos in an undisclosed location

    Austin, TX
  • thetrim
    thetrim Posts: 11,373
    Options
    I was having issues with keeping my temps low (I don't use a flameboss because that's cheating - HAHAHA), so I added a water pan and that helped me greatly.  I know, I know, you don't need it but I use it.  Maybe that's cheating too!
    =======================================
    XL 6/06, Mini 6/12, L 10/12, Mini #2 12/14 MiniMax 3/16 Large #2 11/20 Legacy from my FIL - RIP
    Tampa Bay, FL
    EIB 6 Oct 95
  • Focker
    Focker Posts: 8,364
    edited July 2017
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    Didn't get pics of the pemmican I made with the point.

    Let's see that perfect doneness/nonsense indicator hanging pic again @Cazzy=)

    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
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    Focker said:
    The point is to learn and gradually get better.   The fact that it's not easy is part of what makes it rewarding, at least in my opinion.  

    If after years trying 9/10 are still coming out lousy, well, sometimes it is the Indian and not the arrow.
    Let me guess, you're nailing 9 out of 10 right?
    Hardly, it's just that 9/10 are a long way from  shoe leather.  I've learned a lot and, on average, my briskets are now a lot better than they were when I started.  That's all.  It probably helps that I'm not a complete idiot.
    Hey John, don't sell yourself short, your a tremendous idiot! Lol. That said, I bet you've cooked some really good brisket too. JKOC. A little Caddy Shack humor to lighten you biotches up a bit. Cheers!