Wild Yeast

YukonRon

I am inspired. I am doing bread.
Buying a medium.

SciAggie

YukonRon said:

I am inspired. I am doing bread.
Buying a medium.

Or you could build a wood oven...
Just trying to be a friend here. Helping you see the other options available to you. 
Bwaaa Haaa ha ha ha....

YukonRon

SciAggie said:

YukonRon said:

I am inspired. I am doing bread.
Buying a medium.

Or you could build a wood oven...
Just trying to be a friend here. Helping you see the other options available to you. 
Bwaaa Haaa ha ha ha....

Keeping me broke. I have My Beautiful Wife doing a fine job with that. Now my friends are joining the process.
I am doomed.

NPHuskerFL

https://youtu.be/LEw79ntKDAQ

NPHuskerFL

Sourdough. 20% Organic Whole Grain Rye, 88% hydration with a 48hr cold proof. 

Sliced up one loaf for home. And sliced up one and brought to work this morning for everyone to try with some Nutella. Thanks for looking. 

20stone

NPHuskerFL said:

Sourdough. 20% Organic Whole Grain Rye, 88% hydration with a 48hr cold proof. 

Are you proofing based on time or on rise?

I am going to give this a go tonight + a soaker of seeds (including caraway) to go with some pastrami we happen to have lying around.

NPHuskerFL

@20stone I've done both extended bulk ferment cold 33F-40F and warm (indoor ambient at roughly 70F-74F) and same on proofing. This particular loaf I used less levain...about 75g-80g instead of say 100g-200g. Based on rise. Cold fermenting and proofing just allows for wiggle room in the rise factor in case I get busy. But it also gives the dough time to develop structure and deeper more pronounced flavor. When I do bulk ferment in the cooler I pull it out every now and again and do some folds. Extended fermenting versus extended proofing didn't give any discernible flavor or oven spring. Flavor and crumb I definitely see a difference when it is given more time to rise in a cold environment. I think giving more sets of stretching and folding give me a better open crumb. I've used caraway seeds several times and in my experience less is better.  I used dry caraway seeds and just folded them into the dough. It has a nice flavor profile but, if there are too many it can definitely be overpowering.

20stone

NPHuskerFL said:

@20stone I've done both extended bulk ferment cold 33F-40F and warm (indoor ambient at roughly 70F-74F) and same on proofing. This particular loaf I used less levain...about 75g-80g instead of say 100g-200g. Based on rise. Cold fermenting and proofing just allows for wiggle room in the rise factor in case I get busy. But it also gives the dough time to develop structure and deeper more pronounced flavor. When I do bulk ferment in the cooler I pull it out every now and again and do some folds. Extended fermenting versus extended proofing didn't give any discernible flavor or oven spring. Flavor and crumb I definitely see a difference when it is given more time to rise in a cold environment. I think giving more sets of stretching and folding give me a better open crumb. I've used caraway seeds several times and in my experience less is better.  I used dry caraway seeds and just folded them into the dough. It has a nice flavor profile but, if there are too many it can definitely be overpowering.

Thanks for the feedback.  A couple of follow ups:

• If I am reading this right, you are doing your bulk rise cold, and folding along the way.  The normal "no knead" approach has  3 -4 folds in the first hour or so, and then nothing after that.  For the long bulk rise, are you folding every several hours?
• You mentioned a cold proof as well.  I am anticipating levain today, mix dough this evening and bulk rise in the fridge.  Shape tomorrow night?  If so, I'd be tempted to final proof on the counter so I can bake Wed AM.  Does that timing make sense?
• Re caraway and other seeds, I understand that doing a soaker keeps the seeds (if you use a lot of them) from screwing up your hydration.  We may be going a little heavier handed than we normally would, as this is going straight into Rueben production

NPHuskerFL

@20stone Didn't notice the notification until now. Eating supper and then I'll respond. Here's a crumb shot from each of these loaves. Both looked identical on the crumb structure imho. 

caliking

NPHuskerFL said:

@20stone Didn't notice the notification until now. Eating supper and then I'll respond. Here's a crumb shot from each of these loaves. Both looked identical on the crumb structure imho. 

Your bread never disappoints. I've got a loaf in the oven as we speak.

NPHuskerFL

Thanks @caliking

NPHuskerFL

@20stone
I have nothing etched in stone. I'm experienced but, no expert. My knowledge is both reading and doing but, mostly trial and error. I do my best at documenting  each loaf  and its outcome.  I find this helps me. Error equates to a fail for me and happy birds and wildlife. Lately, knock on wood, I've had no sourdough bird feed.

·Bulk ferment cold or an ambient room. Folds every 30-60 minutes for however long you want. Meaning do however many sets of stretch and folds or slap and folds you like. Looking for gluten development. Then cover for the bulk ferment and leave. 

·Bulk should roughly double in size or at least close to it. Then I typically remove it from the cooler, let it warm up a bit and then do a couple of stretch and folds.  Next divide into two equal parts. Obviously all steps can be done at room ambient as well as in a cooler (refrigerator). Next I preshape, bench rest, final shape and place into a banneton. If you're using a brotform, I prefer using a 50/50 mix of APF or BF and rice flour to coat the  boule or batard. Clearly you do not need to use a banneton if you don't have one. 
Yes, the timing makes sense. Obviously you know the finger test as far as knowing when the dough is ready to bake. It's kind of like a brisket in the respect that it's ready when it's ready.

In respect to the seeds, I don't think you'll drastically sway hydration. That'll be a stellar Ruben!  I did this about 8 months ago but for the life of me can't remember what seeds I put in the dough besides caraway. 

Legume

I was just thinking @20stone...

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/herbs/caraway/caraway-growing.htm

20stone

Thanks for the tips. I am still getting my feel of it.

Giving another a go tonight w 20% rye, 15% WW and the rest AP, plus some caraway for pastrami duty. 

I thought about going with the cold bulk rise, but realized I'm getting on a plane tomorrow night, so, maybe I need to go faster. @20stonespice got the levain rocking earlier, and I mixed it up around 8p. Into bannetons in the AM, and hopefully we'll have pretty boules before I jet.

20stone

Preshaped


First loaf out.  My lame game is lame.

Pics of a slice, and more Rueben to come. 

caliking

That's a beaut!

caliking

Last night's loaf. Whole wheat starter, spelt, sprouted wheat flour, BF. Overnight proof.  Baked in a loaf pan because I'm shooting for sourdough sandwich bread. 



I may need to use a bigger loaf pan though.

20stone

Now I just need to get off my call and go eat!

20stone

One last one, 'cus it was sooo tasty. 

NPHuskerFL

@20stone That crust color is fantastic! Oven or BGE baked?  What was your base flour?

@caliking Dig the loaf pan loaf man

20stone

NPHuskerFL said:

@20stone That crust color is fantastic! Oven or BGE baked?  What was your base flour?

Thanks. They were cooked in the oven in a Dutch oven. 

The flours are:
- 675g - KA AP (incl that in the 250g of levain)
- 200g - Whole Foods bulk whole rye flour
- 125g - WW home ground winter wheat (ground by one of my sisters in her home)

frisky starter (KA AP)
12 hour bulk
4ish hour proof

I'm very happy with how they turned out, particularly after the Josey seed recipe debacle. 

20stone

Legume said:

I was just thinking @20stone...

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/herbs/caraway/caraway-growing.htm

Enough with the voices, already. I'm still trying to find a place to put the dairy cow. 

EggDan

Very helpful post everyone. I am a few months in to my starter and it seems to be more robust every time I use it.

I have only used a Dutch Oven for baking bread. I score and spritz the dough with water and I get a pretty good oven spring. I also preheat the DO for 25 minutes at 500, then reduce the oven to 475. Covered for 20 minutes and about 15 minutes uncovered.  

Does anyone else use a similar temp and timing in the Dutch Oven? I now cook to color vs internal temp. 

20stone

EggDan said:

Does anyone else use a similar temp and timing in the Dutch Oven? I now cook to color vs internal temp. 

We do 475F, 30 w lid and then lid off until done (by smell as well).  We don't spritz, but may give it a try.

NPHuskerFL

@EggDan Preheat egg or oven to 500-550 with CI DO for about 20+ minutes. I use a DO with a flat lid. I find it easier to flip ìt upside down using the lid as the bottom and vice versa. It's much easier to turn out the loaf on to the lid, score the loaf, place the bottom over the lid and then place into your oven or egg. Yes, a quick spritz does help with spring but not completely necessary on a high hydration dough especially in a DO. The spritz definitely comes into play when using just a stone. As soon as I place the DO in I dial it in to 500. After 20 minutes remove the top or DO lid and then go for another 15-25 minutes at 425-450 (color more than IT)  
Some adjustments to temp and overall process are made using the egg but, relatively the same. Likewise I do some tweaks when I use a stone in lieu of a DO. 

20stone

NPHuskerFL said:

@EggDan Preheat egg or oven to 500-550 with CI DO for about 20+ minutes. I use a DO with a flat lid. I find it easier to flip ìt upside down using the lid as the bottom and vice versa. It's much easier to turn out the loaf on to the lid, score the loaf, place the bottom over the lid and then place into your oven or egg. 

Nice trick!  I may grab another DO with a flat lid just for that purpose.  My "quickly flip a banneton over into the DO where it gets stuck.  Use fingernails to pull it back out.  Hope it's not in there too crooked" method is not nearly as smooth

NPHuskerFL

@20stone Thanks man! And I'd love to fib and say I did it this way from day one. However, after turning out batards that stick slightly and then fall sideways into the blazing hot DO & not to mention burning the hell out of my hands trying to get decent scoring game with a lame or even with the razor out of the lame. I was about at my wits end and all ready to buy a cast iron combo cooker and realized I could just do the old fliparoo. It works great and I use the mess out of this 5-quart Lodge DO our Son gave me as a gift a few Christmases ago. What's more as I can use the lid on several other pans and I can use it in the Mini Max as a makeshift set up.

caliking

20stone said:

NPHuskerFL said:

@EggDan Preheat egg or oven to 500-550 with CI DO for about 20+ minutes. I use a DO with a flat lid. I find it easier to flip ìt upside down using the lid as the bottom and vice versa. It's much easier to turn out the loaf on to the lid, score the loaf, place the bottom over the lid and then place into your oven or egg. 

Nice trick!  I may grab another DO with a flat lid just for that purpose.  My "quickly flip a banneton over into the DO where it gets stuck.  Use fingernails to pull it back out.  Hope it's not in there too crooked" method is not nearly as smooth

I got tired of playing that game too. 

An easy method that works for me is:
- When you're ready to bake, place a piece of parchment over the dough while its still in the banneton.
- place a plate over the paper
- grab the banneton and plate, and invert.
- lift the banneton off and score the dough.
- transfer dough to hot DO by using the parchment as a sling. Adjust as needed. 
- Bake!

I spritz water behind the pleats of parchment paper once its in the DO (between paper and the wall of the DO). Gives that burst of steam, and  helps to keep the banneton rings nice and pretty looking. And the bottom crust is not adversely affected in any way by using the paper. 

I bake in this  5qt combo cooker because I thought i would use the lid on the egg. Haven't done that yet. So now I kinda wish i had bought the combo cooker with the longer handle, as it would be easier to maneuver.

EggDan

Thanks for the information. Any benefit of going true Cast Iron Dutch Oven vs an Enameled Dutch Oven? I’m assuming no, but thought I would ask anyways.

Not sure if that Lodge is thicker. I typically use a Sams Club DO that I bought years ago vs my Le Crueset. 

NPHuskerFL

EggDan said:

Thanks for the information. Any benefit of going true Cast Iron Dutch Oven vs an Enameled Dutch Oven? I’m assuming no, but thought I would ask anyways.

Not sure if that Lodge is thicker. I typically use a Sams Club DO that I bought years ago vs my Le Crueset. 

No unless it's for purist reasons. It's the same vessel with enameled finish.