heroin

HeavyG

henapple said:

Notice the spike during the Obama administration? 

I heard that Obama has a large team of Muslim jihadi heroin dealers going around the country offering cheap drugs to everyone as another facet of his master plan to destroy 'Murica.

DoubleEgger

@YukonRon Very powerful message my friend. Thank you for having the courage to speak out and your efforts to help save others from the pain you and your family have endured. 

johnnyp

President Gustavo Fring

bgebrent

DoubleEgger said:

@YukonRon Very powerful message my friend. Thank you for having the courage to speak out and your efforts to help save others from the pain you and your family has endured. 

Ditto!  Well said brother Double!

YukonRon

DoubleEgger said:

@YukonRon Very powerful message my friend. Thank you for having the courage to speak out and your efforts to help save others from the pain you and your family has endured. 

@DoubleEgger  Thank you for your kind words. There are many like me, and more added to the list everyday. 
I appreciate your kindness more than you know.

DoubleEgger

YukonRon said:

DoubleEgger said:

@YukonRon Very powerful message my friend. Thank you for having the courage to speak out and your efforts to help save others from the pain you and your family has endured. 

@DoubleEgger  Thank you for your kind words. There are many like me, and more added to the list everyday. 
I appreciate your kindness more than you know.

If you help one person stay off of the list, then you've done a fantastic job. 

bgebrent

Ron, I stand in your shoes brother.  Survived but still working our way out of the woods.

YukonRon

bgebrent said:

Ron, I stand in your shoes brother.  Survived but still working our way out of the woods.

@bgebrent  I am hoping you and your family make it. I am so sorry anyone has to go through this battle. I suppose God selects the fiercest soldiers to fight the ugliest battles. You ever need anything, let me know. 
Thank you for the support.

bgebrent

YukonRon said:

bgebrent said:

Ron, I stand in your shoes brother.  Survived but still working our way out of the woods.

@bgebrent  I am hoping you and your family make it. I am so sorry anyone has to go through this battle. I suppose God selects the fiercest soldiers to fight the ugliest battles. You ever need anything, let me know. 
Thank you for the support.

Ron, there's no way we don't prevail, thankfully.  And forever you know I appreciate the amazing offer and would reciprocate 1000 times.  Looking forward to shaking hands brother!  Brent

thetrim

@YukonRon so sorry for your losses and so sad to hear your story.  I have many friends that are pain physicians and fight the battle everyday of how to treat those truly in pain and try and find the frauds.   I haven't been personally touched anywhere nearly as profoundly as you and others.  I hope there are fairer skies ahead! 

YukonRon

thetrim said:

@YukonRon so sorry for your losses and so sad to hear your story.  I have many friends that are pain physicians and fight the battle everyday of how to treat those truly in pain and try and find the frauds.   I haven't been personally touched anywhere nearly as profoundly as you and others.  I hope there are fairer skies ahead! 

Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate them more than you will ever know.
peace

blasting

This is quite the thread.  Ron, and many of you commenting are sure impressive individuals.  Great community we have here.

It has been an eyeopener for sure.  

MaC122

YukonRon said:

I lost my son to heroin. I lost my Godson to heroin, my ex wife was an enabler, and got caught up in the scene as well. I lost my best friend, the father of my Godson, to a grief stricken suicide due to the loss of his son, his name sake, to heroin.
This event is a very sad, ugly story, that was just as mind blowing the further I got involved. It actually got attention from The FBI, and Homeland Security. I was able to help in the apprehension of the scum POS that sold this poison.
Long story. Cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars, my home, everything.
I have vowed to fight this. I do what I can. Everyday. Every MFing day.
Dipwads like Nate are clueless.

man,wow. I cant imagine. I just see it from the medic side. This stuff effects me every day, but not how you are going through. Im sorry @Yukonron

MaC122

Look...I seemed to touch a chord with a bunch of people on this thread. I never knew that heroin affected so many members, my self included. We need a place to talk about this. It affects the people, their families, and the people that respond to them. Im tired of going to young people that are dead.

sctdg

My son installed radios in cars .From lying under dash boards all day he developed back issues .Goes to doctor and doc gives him drugs for pain like it was candy .Now at 27 he is full blown addicted ,buying it where ever he can . One day I get the call ,he is found at a friends house lying in his own puke and not breathing . Paramedics bring him back and they loose him again on way to hospital,they bring him back one more time and emergency room doctor tells me and my ex he won't survive night .Well he did and was in a coma for about 2 months . Went to a rehab and had to learn everything all over again ,feeding himself,walking ,talking like he was a new born .I was retired at the time and rehab let me get involved with process and was there every day for 18 months. .I basically kicked his ass and made him fight to come back to some semblance of normal .It was tough love taken to the extreme and the rehab could not believe the progress he made . He was diagnosed with Traumatic Brain injury due to lack of oxygen .Two neurologists said he would be confined to a wheel chair and need 24/7 care . He is now 35 newly married and is a union electrician,doing solar panel work.Doc said his recovery was off the charts,couldn't even guess a prognosis . What I am trying to say is that if anyone has this happen in their family (and it seems to be happening a lot) ,don't baby or feel sorry for the addict . Trying to reason with an addict will not work ,unfortunately the only way they find the path to recovery is the tough way like my son .When you can bring someone back with a drug like Narcan I don't think they learn a thing .  A good friend of mine was a vice president for the rehab my son went to and told me stories of the same addicts coming there more than once after OD's . We live in very screwed up times with this perverted idea of tolerance taken way to far .The doc that gave the pills to my son should never had been practicing medicine,my ex and her wanting to ignore what her son was doing enabled him big time and the government clinic he had been going to for Methadone did nothing but get him through the times when he couldn't find any on the street . My son was lucky (if you can call it that) that he was in a coma long enough that his memory about doing drugs was wiped out, otherwise who knows where he would be now .

MaC122

@sctdg amazing story. Im glad your son is ok. Narcan saves lives but its only temporary

nolaegghead

@sctdg I'm terribly sorry your son had the misfortune of addiction.  You were the saint and helped him.  Kicked his ass back into biological normalcy after brain damage. 

I just want to ask you, as you said, you can't reason with an addict, it will not work.  As I agree, the biological and mental urge is very strong, addicted to opiates.  Then you work an argument that Narcan doesn't "teach them a lesson".  So the assumption is they need to just die (as Narcan can save them),  or they should pay a price that costs society by nearly dying and having severe brain damage?  The road to redemption that you paint is sick, in my opinion.

The cure to this tragedy is not a sick miracle cure from "you deserved it" brain damage.  It is prevention, treatment and support.  Yes, you can not argue with an addict, especially when they are in DTs.  But you can be humane about it.  And use the best medical facilities, treatment and family support, even if it does have to intervene and get tough.  Be smart about it.  Killing people by withholding narcan is a terrible position, in morality, and a failure in societal response to a terrible problem.   The doctor blaming is normal, I understand.

The person that needs tough love is you.

northGAcock

A few thoughts after sleeping on this.

1. Talking about this is a good thing. Like anything else, our opinions, experiences and paradigms are different as we view the problem. It is OK to disagree, but until you have experienced this battle, it is difficult to understand and grasp.
2. Our job, regardless of our approach, is to keep these kids alive. Without sustaining life, it is impossible it have recovery. 
3. The only one who can truly change or is the addict. Until they are ready....there is really little we can do.
4. Each day we encounter the addict, we have to determine if we are talking with our son / daughter / spouse.....or the addict. You have to adjust your communication accordingly. As stated....you can't reason with an addict. 

We have to be realistic about where we are with our family members.....but Never give up.....never give up.

fishlessman

nolaegghead said:

@sctdg I'm terribly sorry your son had the misfortune of addiction.  You were the saint and helped him.  Kicked his ass back into biological normalcy after brain damage. 

I just want to ask you, as you said, you can't reason with an addict, it will not work.  As I agree, the biological and mental urge is very strong, addicted to opiates.  Then you work an argument that Narcan doesn't "teach them a lesson".  So the assumption is they need to just die (as Narcan can save them),  or they should pay a price that costs society by nearly dying and having severe brain damage?  The road to redemption that you paint is sick, in my opinion.

The cure to this tragedy is not a sick miracle cure from "you deserved it" brain damage.  It is prevention, treatment and support.  Yes, you can not argue with an addict, especially when they are in DTs.  But you can be humane about it.  And use the best medical facilities, treatment and family support, even if it does have to intervene and get tough.  Be smart about it.  Killing people by withholding narcan is a terrible position, in morality, and a failure in societal response to a terrible problem.   The doctor blaming is normal, I understand.

The person that needs tough love is you.

whats happening up here is users are getting narcan kits and doing higher doses, so where does this end. the problem is bad up here and the papers have stopped reporting it all together with the daily od's. ive seen several arrests since last summer and it was a weekly event watching cars get stripped every friday on the highways as it was getting trafficked between portland maine and lawrence mass. im sure ive been on camera as i make that same trip weekly to camp.  theres even an undercover 100 feet from where i sit

GATraveller

I think addiction to anything is a major problem EVERYWHERE.  It has wrecked my family and many around me.  So many folks don't discuss addiction because it's looked at as a sign of weakness or they feel it makes you "less than".      

I'll leave this here:

In recent years, public health experts have focused extensively on overdose deaths from heroin and prescription painkillers, which have risen rapidly since the early 2000s. But in 2014, more people died from alcohol-induced causes (30,722) than from overdoses of prescription painkillers and heroin combined (28,647), according to the CDC.

Anyone with children needs to stay vigilant and educate them to the dangers of ALL drugs as society tells them otherwise!

sctdg

What happened with my son is only one experience with the problem of drug addiction and how it affects everyone associated . I guess in some families it promotes sadness and in some cases it produces anger . Addiction can show up in many forms,my father was addicted to gambling and I dealt with that from when I was a child.If he had a buck it went to the horses or cards . It was no wonder my son fell into drug addiction ,probably in his genes . All I know is my experience and the only way an addict ,be it drug ,gambling ,booze etc will change is when they are facing the very end of life as they know it . People that I know that do drug counseling told me not to put my son in a drug program because the coma wiped out his memory of what he was doing and to try and work on the addicted part of his life could actually restart things .I worry about him every day ,there isn't a day that goes by that I don't think that he might take a step backwards . The whole addiction thing sucks for everyone involved it is the very worst part of human nature . 

chadpsualum

GalanteNate_OneEa said:

Spaightlabs said:

GalanteNate_OneEa said:

JohnInCarolina said:

There are charts that will state all kinds of facts, like that face that the population has grown.

You trolling for the 'd.ick of the day' award, or what is your agenda?

My point was that your chart shows one thing, OD growth.

All that means is the number of OD death is higher.  No percentage of pop.  It is a common fact that cops pull over more red cars than any other color. What does that prove? Cops hate red?  Or how about most dumba$$es that like to speed drive red cars?  The world may never know.

From 2008 to 2014 the # here has gone up 2.5x's.  Do you think the population has more than doubled in that time?  If not, it's safe to say the % is higher in 2014 than in 2008.  Common sense here.

YukonRon

Nate is seeing and dealing with this frustrating issue in a manner most of us can't relate to. He made statements last night from frustration and anger, with our present direction in fighting the problem.
He vented. Anyone effected by this poison needs to do it or you will literally kill yourself.
I have, on numerous occasions, without trying as hard, infuriated people much more than Nate ever will, with my comments.
This issue, requires everyone to cut some slack. It is very emotional to everyone involved.
Just keep fighting the problem, not those who have invested their lives to stop it.
Peace to all. Thank you for the kindness and support.

nolaegghead

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

@sctdg I'm terribly sorry your son had the misfortune of addiction.  You were the saint and helped him.  Kicked his ass back into biological normalcy after brain damage. 

I just want to ask you, as you said, you can't reason with an addict, it will not work.  As I agree, the biological and mental urge is very strong, addicted to opiates.  Then you work an argument that Narcan doesn't "teach them a lesson".  So the assumption is they need to just die (as Narcan can save them),  or they should pay a price that costs society by nearly dying and having severe brain damage?  The road to redemption that you paint is sick, in my opinion.

The cure to this tragedy is not a sick miracle cure from "you deserved it" brain damage.  It is prevention, treatment and support.  Yes, you can not argue with an addict, especially when they are in DTs.  But you can be humane about it.  And use the best medical facilities, treatment and family support, even if it does have to intervene and get tough.  Be smart about it.  Killing people by withholding narcan is a terrible position, in morality, and a failure in societal response to a terrible problem.   The doctor blaming is normal, I understand.

The person that needs tough love is you.

whats happening up here is users are getting narcan kits and doing higher doses, so where does this end. the problem is bad up here and the papers have stopped reporting it all together with the daily od's. ive seen several arrests since last summer and it was a weekly event watching cars get stripped every friday on the highways as it was getting trafficked between portland maine and lawrence mass. im sure ive been on camera as i make that same trip weekly to camp.  theres even an undercover 100 feet from where i sit

That's not true of Narcan.  That fallacy has been floating around the interwebs so I can see how you may believe it.

Legume

Years ago I did some work with an anesthesiologist that worked at a prestigious university pain clinic.  He knew his shjt.  He died of accidental overdose, in his bathroom, at home, syringe of narcan sitting right there next to him.  The department chair shared with us that, unfortunately, this is not rare, and that what comes with that level of education and day to day familiarity with opioids is the false confidence that he could control the situation with narcan if he felt himself slipping away.  This could not be further from reality he told us.

Spaightlabs

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/chasing-heroin/

A good watch.

fishlessman

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

@sctdg I'm terribly sorry your son had the misfortune of addiction.  You were the saint and helped him.  Kicked his ass back into biological normalcy after brain damage. 

I just want to ask you, as you said, you can't reason with an addict, it will not work.  As I agree, the biological and mental urge is very strong, addicted to opiates.  Then you work an argument that Narcan doesn't "teach them a lesson".  So the assumption is they need to just die (as Narcan can save them),  or they should pay a price that costs society by nearly dying and having severe brain damage?  The road to redemption that you paint is sick, in my opinion.

The cure to this tragedy is not a sick miracle cure from "you deserved it" brain damage.  It is prevention, treatment and support.  Yes, you can not argue with an addict, especially when they are in DTs.  But you can be humane about it.  And use the best medical facilities, treatment and family support, even if it does have to intervene and get tough.  Be smart about it.  Killing people by withholding narcan is a terrible position, in morality, and a failure in societal response to a terrible problem.   The doctor blaming is normal, I understand.

The person that needs tough love is you.

whats happening up here is users are getting narcan kits and doing higher doses, so where does this end. the problem is bad up here and the papers have stopped reporting it all together with the daily od's. ive seen several arrests since last summer and it was a weekly event watching cars get stripped every friday on the highways as it was getting trafficked between portland maine and lawrence mass. im sure ive been on camera as i make that same trip weekly to camp.  theres even an undercover 100 feet from where i sit

That's not true of Narcan.  That fallacy has been floating around the interwebs so I can see how you may believe it.

i did not read it in the interwebs, ive had employs escorted out of my shop in handcuffs on heroine and others in NA to see it close up. heres a excerpt from mass law on how to get the kits, they have been available since 2012. and that undercover is waiting for a delivery to my neighbors son.
http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/substance-abuse/core-competencies-for-naloxone-pilot-participants.pdf

In 2012 a new law (Chapter 192 of the Acts of 2012) passed in Massachusetts that includes the following

related to naloxone

:



A person acting in good faith may receive a

naloxone prescription, possess naloxone and

administer naloxone to an individual appear

ing to experience an opiate-related overdose.



Naloxone may lawfully be prescribed and dispen

sed to a person at risk of experiencing an

opiate-related overdose or a family member, frie

nd or other person in a position to assist a

person at risk of experiencing an opiate-related overdose

nolaegghead

You guys anti-vaxers too? 

Not worth arguing with anyone that refuses to simply look something up.  Sadly, people die because of this misinformation.  

fishlessman

nolaegghead said:

You guys anti-vaxers too? 

Not worth arguing with anyone that refuses to simply look something up.  Sadly, people die because of this misinformation.  

i did look, most of what i see is some users using it as a safety net. i did not see anything contrary to that. im not anti narcon just saying what im hearing from people that experience this daily

GATraveller

Vaccinations cause autism.........duh!  Jenny McCarthy told me so and she's a good mom.