San Berardino Massacre

coooltroy

@DMW, I said, "I could only wish your life would be affected in a way to better understand why joking about this stuff is wrong".  I WOULD NEVER WISH SOMEONE TO BE AFFECTED BY A TRAGEDY.  ITs beyond horrible.  I only wish something, news, social media, conversation, whatever can bring people that JOKE about these people being murdered to empathize and respect human life. 

Sardonicus

I dunno, Troy.  
I'm thinking:  "misnomer".

nolaegghead

This thread is like...and this can go on either way.  I'm out of it.

Some Conservatives Couldn't Believe The Shooting At Planned Parenthood Had Anything To Do With Planned Parenthood

Remembering the long afternoon when abortion foes desperately hoped the shooter wasn't one of their own.

Posted: 11/30/2015 06:57 PM EST

We now know that the alleged gunman in Friday's shooting spree in Colorado Springs said "no more baby parts" upon his arrest. That's inconvenient for Twitter conservatives, who spent a portion of Friday desperately hoping that a shooting at a Planned Parenthood had nothing to do with Planned Parenthood or opposition to legal abortion.

Initially, it was legitimately difficult to know for sure what was happening and why. It wasn't fully clear whether the shooter was at the clinic or merely near it. A lot still needed to be sorted out. But not everyone was particularly charitable about it:

The Huffington Post

Although it's fine to caution the media to refrain from speculating in haste, it's another thing entirely to accuse journalists of attempting to enforce a specific, slanted narrative. But some did just that readily.

To be fair, some early news reports definitely suggested that Planned Parenthood was not the target of the attack:

The Huffington Post

Huffington Post

But the notion that the gunman was specifically motivated by the existence of Planned Parenthood was far from idle speculation. Colorado Springs has long been a hotbed for anti-abortion rights activists, including their more violent varietals, and Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains has historically been a target of anti-abortion militants. Concluding that there was a link between the gunman and the anti-abortion movement may have been premature, but it was near the blade of Occam's razor.

At some point, the tenor of anti-abortion conservatives' stance shifted from "the media should not speculate" to "the media's speculation needs to conform to our specific needs and wants and insecurities."

The Huffington Post

 Twitter's armchair media critics had moments they'd go on to regret:

The Huffington Post

The Huffington Post

Some seemed taken in by initial reports that the shooting was happening at a nearby bank:

The Huffington Post

Others experienced a range of disposable emotions:

The Huffington Post

Others insisted that we remember the real victims:

the Huffington Post

Some owned up to their mistakes and apologized:

The Huffington Post

Investigators have so far been oddly reluctant to make a connection between the shooter's "baby parts" comment and anti-abortion motives. But at least one anti-abortion rights organization is eager to dispel any suggestion that its rhetoric could have inspired the attack:

David Daleiden, who produced the shocking videos showing Planned Parenthood abortion clinics selling aborted babies and their body parts, strongly condemned the shooting.

 

“The Center for Medical Progress does not support vigilante violence against abortion providers. There are people at Planned Parenthood who I still consider friends and my thoughts and prayers are with them at this time for no one to be injured.”

 

“We only visited the Denver clinic in Colorado. PPRM CEO Vicki Cowart says Planned Parenthood still doesn’t know the full details of what is going on in Colorado Springs.”

Maybe this would be a good time to dust off that old Department of Homeland Security report, "Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment."

from

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/planned-parenthood-shooting-deniers_5658f474e4b08e945feb410e

coooltroy

I have had friends and family affected by this.  I wish I hadn't clicked into this thread.  I can't believe there are jokes about this.  Stunned.

HeavyG

coooltroy said:

I have had friends and family affected by this.  I wish I hadn't clicked into this thread.  I can't believe there are jokes about this.  Stunned.

Dark humor is a well known and widely employed coping mechanism.

If that bothers you then yeah...you should probably not read more of this thread.

HeavyG

RRP said:

ah SH!T! I was careful tonight when I revealed to my birthday-girl wife of 71 years young - that one of now dead *SSHOLES was a woman! Obviously not all women are the type we grew up with! The older women said I want to make your babies so lay me! Now some twits/twats say who can I KILL?  Of course being CA - the land of fruit and nuts - why is this even questioned behavior out there?

Statistically, most murderers are men but history is full of female murderers/serial killers.

Google "Jolly Jane". A nurse that killed 30 some patients back in the early 1900's. You know, back in the good old days.

No, she wasn't from California. Plus, Cali doesn't even come close to being the state with the highest rate of gun related murders (or even "normal murders").

victor1

None of this is a joking matter.  I tend to avoid these topics but this is becoming too common and can happen anywhere.  Is anyone concerned that the right always offers prayers and sympathy and the left wants to do something to try to stop some of this? 

henapple

Planned Parenthood shooting... Christian terrorist 
Sam Bernardino shooting.... Gunmen 

Acn

henapple said:

Planned Parenthood shooting... Christian terrorist 
Sam Bernardino shooting.... Gunmen 

A little too facile there - the PP shooter specifically mentioned " no more dead babies" when firing, his intent seems clear.  

Everything about San Bernadino has mentioned possibility of terrorism, however given that he was a former employee of the organization holding the banquet and was there and left angrily, it seems prudent to try and determine intent.

stlcharcoal

Acn said:

henapple said:

Planned Parenthood shooting... Christian terrorist 
Sam Bernardino shooting.... Gunmen 

A little too facile there - the PP shooter specifically mentioned " no more dead babies" when firing, his intent seems clear.  

Everything about San Bernadino has mentioned possibility of terrorism, however given that he was a former employee of the organization holding the banquet and was there and left angrily, it seems prudent to try and determine intent.

This is not some dude getting pissed that he just got laid off so he went out to his car and got a gun.  He and his wife/fiancée had a pipe bomb factory going in there house, they had dropped their baby off in the morning saying they had doctors appointments, and then came back to the party wearing cameras to film the whole thing.  This was planned, and had been planned for a while.  Work place violence, sure you can call it that, but there's a hell of a lot more to it as more is being reported about these folks.

HendersonTRKing

Terrorism.  Domestic terrorism, but terrorism just the same.  

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism

When are we as a people going to do something about it?  Aside from offering prayers, that is.

Davec433

Gov. Brown signed 11 new gun regulations into law.

http://m.sfgate.com/news/article/Jerry-Brown-signs-11-gun-related-laws-vetoes-4889448.php

DoubleEgger

It's hard to combat crazy. Domestic or international. 

nolaegghead

<diatribe>

SWMBO is the youngest of 8, daughter or a Marine Col, grew up in Southern LA, got a 357 Mag S&W from her dad (used to belong to a dead guy).  Part of who you are is where you grew up and the culture you're in.

My parents hated guns.  But I like 'em.  I have, we have, a bunch of them.  Mechanical stuff is cool. 

Horses have left the barn with guns here in the USA.  Gun lobbyists and special interest groups peddle fear to the pitchfork and torch carrying peasants.  Ain't nobody gonna take your guns away as a law abiding citizen, but many think it's gonna be the next liberal president, or at the very least, take the ammo away.

In context of protecting your domicile/family, provided you get the jump on someone breaking in while you're asleep, it's a pacifier to your daily life.  If that makes people sleep better, great. 

I have no problem with gun ownership.  I have been on both sides of a barrel.

So crazy people, or people that go crazy...however you describe aggressors that commit crimes with guns, they are universally recognized as the complicit party....and  by virtue of their act, they are unhinged in some degree.   So you have criminals, they'll get guns because the horse left the barn.  And you have "law-abiding citizens", who have the right to carry/own guns.

Everyone criminal is a law-abiding citizen before they aren't.  Right?  So it seems to me that's where we try to mitigate something that's hard to control.

So that's what we should do, right?  If you are a law abiding citizen, and you threaten someone with violence or exhibit some symptoms, that can be identified, you need to give up your right to bear arms.  Say you threaten your ex-GF.  Or you send physical threatening tweets to someone, or your shrink sees something in your behavior.   What signs you may exhibit that point to a higher probability of you going off the reservation and go violent.  This is a legitimate area to tackle.

Suicide - people are going to do it, guns are very efficient doing it.  If someone wants to kill themselves, although it's against the law, that's just gonna happen.  Better it works than have a burden on medical resources.  Better yet we can intervene and fix someone broken who can be an asset to society.

But all the bravado and ideology about not addressing the issue - plain stupidity.  I'm not saying ban guns, but have a discussion about it and try to mitigate senseless violence without an ideological bent, and without special interests buying inaction of our elected leaders.

People - you know how smart the average one it. Half are stoopider.   They can go from calm to rage in a nanosecond.    They can all have guns.  I'm a misanthropic person insofar as the world is a bit too populated and filled with ideological people that make it difficult for other people who are focused on thriving in their own right.  One part of me says, let the Darwinian process works.  And it does, people who are emphatically into guns are more often victims of them.  Another part of me wants to protect one from the other.  I am somewhat torn.

</diatribe>

Davec433

Syed Rizwan Farook -- one-half of the couple behind the San Bernardino shooting massacre -- was apparently radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the FBI for international terrorism, law enforcement officials said Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html

nolaegghead

Davec433 said:

Syed Rizwan Farook -- one-half of the couple behind the San Bernardino shooting massacre -- was apparently radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the FBI for international terrorism, law enforcement officials said Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html

What a relief!!!

Davec433

nolaegghead said:

<diatribe>

So that's what we should do, right?  If you are a law abiding citizen, and you threaten someone with violence or exhibit some symptoms, that can be identified, you need to give up your right to bear arms.  Say you threaten your ex-GF.  Or you send physical threatening tweets to someone, or your shrink sees something in your behavior.   What signs you may exhibit that point to a higher probability of you going off the reservation and go violent.  This is a legitimate area to tackle.

I hate to say this but the government is already taking some service members who have PTSD guns away. You can either keep your guns or sign away your earned benefits. Good luck sueing since the whole thing is illegal. It sounds like a good idea but thought crime isn't illegal yet.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/january092014/vet-gun-rights-tk.php

nolaegghead

The US military is still slow to identify and tread PTSD.  Where people are threats to themselves or others, they shouldn't own guns, and they should be treated.  They can get the right back when they're not a threat.  Really this is common sense.  But it is a shame that the Veteran's administration is really not readily identifying, treating and helping vets with PTSD.  There have been a number of articles on this and I think you're losing your focus on the problem at hand - mitigation.  The treatment issue is another problem altogether.  Your point is that once in the military - they, to a certain degree - own parts of you for life.  For example, you cannot just divulge secrets you were privy to after you're out. 

HeavyG

Davec433 said:

Syed Rizwan Farook -- one-half of the couple behind the San Bernardino shooting massacre -- was apparently radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the FBI for international terrorism, law enforcement officials said Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html

You should also note that he was born and raised in the USA.

HendersonTRKing

DoubleEgger said:

It's hard to combat crazy. Domestic or international. 

So . . . try or don't try?

nolaegghead

HendersonTRKing said:

DoubleEgger said:

It's hard to combat crazy. Domestic or international. 

So . . . try or don't try?

Some try...others send prayers to the victims.

Davec433

Only thing that's important was that he been radicalized. Media is having a hard time saying the words "Islamic Terrorism."

nolaegghead

Wait for it.....wait for it......when they gonna say it?.....when?  I'm waiting...still waiting...it's like super duper important that they say it....

fishlessman

trumps approach hasnt been tried here yet have to do something

YukonRon

HeavyG said:

Davec433 said:

Syed Rizwan Farook -- one-half of the couple behind the San Bernardino shooting massacre -- was apparently radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the FBI for international terrorism, law enforcement officials said Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html

You should also note that he was born and raised in the USA.

To Pakistani parents, living the American dream. Then he left the USA for Saudi Arabia. Would those facts mean anything? I mean since there is more unrest in Saudi Arabia, almost on a continual basis, than any other country around the world? Typically, it is a place people are brought, to teach hatred of the west? I just don't know.

nolaegghead

Probably for hajj

nolaegghead

Davec433 said:

nolaegghead said:

<diatribe>

So that's what we should do, right?  If you are a law abiding citizen, and you threaten someone with violence or exhibit some symptoms, that can be identified, you need to give up your right to bear arms.  Say you threaten your ex-GF.  Or you send physical threatening tweets to someone, or your shrink sees something in your behavior.   What signs you may exhibit that point to a higher probability of you going off the reservation and go violent.  This is a legitimate area to tackle.

I hate to say this but the government is already taking some service members who have PTSD guns away. You can either keep your guns or sign away your earned benefits. Good luck sueing since the whole thing is illegal. It sounds like a good idea but thought crime isn't illegal yet.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/january092014/vet-gun-rights-tk.php

Hey, whatever happened to Chris Kyle, anyway?

YukonRon

nolaegghead said:

Davec433 said:

nolaegghead said:

<diatribe>

So that's what we should do, right?  If you are a law abiding citizen, and you threaten someone with violence or exhibit some symptoms, that can be identified, you need to give up your right to bear arms.  Say you threaten your ex-GF.  Or you send physical threatening tweets to someone, or your shrink sees something in your behavior.   What signs you may exhibit that point to a higher probability of you going off the reservation and go violent.  This is a legitimate area to tackle.

I hate to say this but the government is already taking some service members who have PTSD guns away. You can either keep your guns or sign away your earned benefits. Good luck sueing since the whole thing is illegal. It sounds like a good idea but thought crime isn't illegal yet.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/january092014/vet-gun-rights-tk.php

Hey, whatever happened to Chris Kyle, anyway?

The guy shot by the ex marine with PTSD and likely schizophrenia because he was afraid Chris Kyle, with a confirmed 160 Kills, was going to take his soul? That Chris Kyle? It did not turn out for him so well.

Durangler

Terrorist hit. No doubt. No question.
What now? Where next? Why?
Who has the intel?
Time to profile?

nolaegghead

I'm skeerd.  Actually, I'm not.  If you are terrorized, then the terrorists win.  Don't let the terrorists win.  Don't be skeerd.