Newbie Questions about Brisket - How can this be ? and now what ?

Smoking_on_the_Deck

Hi everyone:

This is my first post, so please indulge me and my questions without too much of a hazing.

I am new to this forum and new to using BGE types of cookers (love it!).  But, I have been using a Weber Bullet for over 10 years on and off.  Brisket was rarely attempted and never with good results.

With my new cooker, I finally had a success with a 12 pounder cooked at about 240 or so at the grate for 19 hours.  About 12 hours in, if I remember right, I wrapped it in butcher paper, Franklin style.  I did not actually have butcher paper, but a waiter at a restaurant was nice enough to give me two 24" squares of the butcher paper used to cover tables.  Perfect!

Now, onto this cook.  Yesterday, I bought a 17 3/4 Choice pounder.  Put my rub on (Dizzy Pig Cow Lick) and put the brisket on the cooker at 240 at 4:30 PM.  Pecan and Hickory smoking wood and the BBQ Guru was humming along.  I put two probes in, as I usually do, so I could be more sure of finding the coolest spot to guard against a false reading.

Wow, I got up at 5 this morning all set to wrap the brisket in butcher paper for the rest of the cook (purchased at Costco).  No need!!!!!  The lower probe read 196 and the higher probe read 202!!!!  That was at about 12 3/4 hours. Huh?

We checked it by poking it with a Thermapen probe for tenderness and temperature.  Went through pretty nicely and I got one reading, after lots of pokes, at 188.  So, now it is all wrapped up in foil and towels in a cooler.

On to my questions:

1 How can this be????? Is the variation from one brisket to the next really that big?  I have read here that each brisket is different than the next it is ready when it is ready rather than a per pound formula.  But, this was unusually fast, right?

2. Now, what do I do?  Given we really wanted it for dinner, I do not think it is going to last in the cooler at safe temperatures for 12 hours.  At some point, I will need to start slicing it up.  At some point I will need to put it in the fridge.  Advice here?

3. I as destined to be eating the brisket reheated.  Given all of this, do you have advice on the best way for me to reheat?

I guess this is a good problem to have.  All indications are that it will be nice - fingers crossed - but I know I will not know until I start slicing.  I am just unsure on what the best next steps are.

I have done some forum searching on this but would appreciate any advice you have on my questions in the post.

Thanks!!!!

theyolksonyou

Welcome to the forum. The difference could be temperature variation or fat content. I'm sure others will chime in, but maybe put it in the oven on lowest temp possible?

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Throw lots of towels in the cooler. Maybe throw them in the dryer for 15-20 min first. It will last 12 hrs as long as it's not out in the cold. It can make it a little "fall apart" tender at 12 hrs but it's more than likely it will hold up perfectly fine.

As for the cook temps- I have never had luck with a BBQ Guru doing brisket for some reason. I can't explain it- I'm baffled. They always cook too fast and the last one I did was burned to a crisp on the bottom. The temp readings on the dome and Guru were fine the whole way through the cook.

I do attribute this to user error but I'm right there with you. Mine cook super fast with the GURU although I have to admit this is a fairly small sampling of 2 briskets because I stopped using it after the 2nd disaster.

lousubcap

Welcome aboard and enjoy the journey.  First up-I have had wild variations with timing on brisket cooks-I generally plan for around 1 hr/lb running around 260-280*F on the dome.  Most times they come in a little quicker than that (cooking prime packers) but some run long.  I have FTC'd for about 8 hours in a cheap pre-warmed Igloo cooler and the meat temp was around 150*F.  I don't recommend stretching to 12 hours. 

For your situation (absent pearls of wisdom from @SGH who I believe has a process for the extended hold) I would leave it tightly foil wrapped and put it in the oven at your lowest temp (likely around 170*F) until ready to remove and let rest on the counter, then slice when ready to eat.  The natural juices should keep it moist.  The above are just my thoughts and an attempt to offer another approach to keep from slicing early.  FWIW-

fishlessman

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Throw lots of towels in the cooler. Maybe throw them in the dryer for 15-20 min first. It will last 12 hrs as long as it's not out in the cold. It can make it a little "fall apart" tender at 12 hrs but it's more than likely it will hold up perfectly fine.

As for the cook temps- I have never had luck with a BBQ Guru doing brisket for some reason. I can't explain it- I'm baffled. They always cook too fast and the last one I did was burned to a crisp on the bottom. The temp readings on the dome and Guru were fine the whole way through the cook.

I do attribute this to user error but I'm right there with you. Mine cook super fast with the GURU although I have to admit this is a fairly small sampling of 2 briskets because I stopped using it after the 2nd disaster.

my experiene with huge pieces of meat is that with that huge cold mass in there your chasing temps to get the dome temps up. you really have to fight that urge when doing it manually, i once had a 1000 degree fire under the stone with a dome temp of 170 with 34 pounds pork and brisket in there before i saw what was going on. your guru doesnt fight that urge, it fires up the egg til its up to temp regardless whats in there. with that guru you might have to wait 5 or 6 hours for temps to come up on their own, then turn the guru on

henapple

Welcome

The Cen-Tex Smoker

fishlessman said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Throw lots of towels in the cooler. Maybe throw them in the dryer for 15-20 min first. It will last 12 hrs as long as it's not out in the cold. It can make it a little "fall apart" tender at 12 hrs but it's more than likely it will hold up perfectly fine.

As for the cook temps- I have never had luck with a BBQ Guru doing brisket for some reason. I can't explain it- I'm baffled. They always cook too fast and the last one I did was burned to a crisp on the bottom. The temp readings on the dome and Guru were fine the whole way through the cook.

I do attribute this to user error but I'm right there with you. Mine cook super fast with the GURU although I have to admit this is a fairly small sampling of 2 briskets because I stopped using it after the 2nd disaster.

my experiene with huge pieces of meat is that with that huge cold mass in there your chasing temps to get the dome temps up. you really have to fight that urge when doing it manually, i once had a 1000 degree fire under the stone with a dome temp of 170 with 34 pounds pork and brisket in there before i saw what was going on. your guru doesnt fight that urge, it fires up the egg til its up to temp regardless whats in there. with that guru you might have to wait 5 or 6 hours for temps to come up on their own, then turn the guru on

Interesting. These were stable as far as i can tell. I always let it roll at least an hour before i add anything on a low and slow. I light it, then go do all the meat prep etc and come back and fiddle with the temps until stable. One of the cooks I added the guru like 8 hrs in and the other I don't remember. I was highly intoxicated both times but that is the one constant in all my cooks.

Smoking_on_the_Deck

Thanks everyone - for both the welcoming and the suggestions.

It has been in my toweled (cheapie igloo) cooler for about 4 hours or so and the internal temperature is approaching 150.  So, I will probably slice it up soon.  I doubt if I will put it in the oven at 170, as suggested, only because it seems like it would be for very many hours.  It is only 10 am here (west coast).

The temperature was rock steady the entire time as far as I can tell (I did not get up in the middle of the night but it was that way for a few hours before I hit the sack and the same when I got up).  I did have a little trouble for the first 1/2 hour.  The pit thermometer kept giving weird reasons - the cable had to be extended straight.  The dome was steady at 220 or so and the grid temperature was steady at 240.

On Cen-Tex Smoker's remark about things cooking unexpectedly fast with the BBQ Guru (mine is the CyberQ), I used it for our Thanksgiving turkey.  I think we kept it at 350 - it also finished much sooner than expected - but it was great.

Thanks everyone, getting the knife out soon...........

The Cen-Tex Smoker

if you slice it it's going to dry out in minutes. i would cool it and reheat it whole if it's not too late.

If you do slice it, get some decent sauce and nobody will probably notice. 

I find the best way to reheat sliced leftover brisket is in a foodsaver bag or ziploc in warm water. tap water temp is usually perfect.

Good luck- I'm sure it will be awesome no matter what. Very few people get to eat good brisket so even a near miss if initially cooked properly will be better than most.

Smoking_on_the_Deck

Oops, sliced.

About 1/2  is now sliced and vacuum sealed in food saver bags and in the freezer.  A bunch of the point is back on the smoker for an attempt at burnt ends.  It is cut up (but really very shredded) and basted with finishing sauce.

The rest is in the fridge in 2 containers - point and flat.  

We will judge at dinner but it is very tender, pull apart - but a little dry.  I would have wanted to pull it a little sooner I guess but I woke up at 5 and got the surprise already. 

While I have you folks.....................can I ask for some coaching on smoke rings?  I put a very good amount of wood in and let the billowing go away and then put the meat on.  It was still smoking, greatly diminished, but I did not not much of a ring at all.  My theory is that to keep the temperature this low, the lump barely burns and so the smoke wood barely burns.  But, I don't know.......

Thank you.

SGH

Smoking_on_the_Deck said:

On Cen-Tex Smoker's remark about things cooking unexpectedly fast with the BBQ Guru (mine is the CyberQ), I used it for our Thanksgiving turkey.  I think we kept it at 350 - it also finished much sooner than expected - but it was great.

Welcome aboard my friend. I have been reading this post with interest. I have a theory as to why your grub is cooking faster with the guru. I have a very large insulated vertical smoker that I have been playing around with trying to find a way to conserve fuel. I have been experimenting with a convection fan inside of the unit. To some degree I feel you are experiencing the same affect with the guru as I am with the convection fan. When the guru cycles on, you are forcing 5 cubic feet per minute of air into the egg, thus creating a turbulence. Depending on the fan on your guru you could be forcing 10 cubic feet per minute into the egg even farther enhancing the turbulence. When the egg is natural drafting, it does not pull near about 5 cubic feet per minute to hold sub 300 degree temps. While I do not have a guru myself, I feel the turbulence created in the egg by it is akin to the convection fan in the vertical. The forced draft causes turbulence that the natural draft does not. Using the convection fan in my vertical, I can reduce cooking time considerably when running the same temp. I feel that this is the same phenomenon that you are seeing with the guru on your egg. 

stemc33

+1 on the convection effect. Especially if fan was cycling frequently. Just my theory/thought and have no idea if it's what caused faster finish time than expected.

Smoking_on_the_Deck

Thanks very much for the welcoming words, I appreciate it.

On the convection effect, I was thinking about exactly that earlier today and I think the way you expressed it was much better than I could come up with.  I do believe there is considerably more air movement when the BBQ Guru is running.  Depending on the circumstances, once it is in a pretty steady state, it can be "fan on" as much as 20% of the time for quite a long time.  

Do you believe that it is a negative?  Perhaps it really does cook faster (I do not think I have had \ enough cooks with it to be sure) and, if true, what is the downside?  Would it, for example, be contributing to a drier result?  If there is no downside and it cooks faster, then it is all good?

Thanks.

SGH

Smoking_on_the_Deck said:

Do you believe that it is a negative?  

I myself believe that convection has both positive and negative affects on the cook. That said, I feel that the positive far out weigh the negative. Here are some of the positives: Shorter cook time, more consistent temps throughout the cook chamber, and you can get away with overloading the smoker with forced convection where you can not when totally dependent on natural draft. Again I have been experimenting with a convection fan in Unit #1 and thus far have really been pleased with the results. Now please understand that my conclusions are based on using a massive vertical water smoker, not the egg. But I feel the same applies nonetheless. 

GATraveller

I have found that the DigiQ makes for a quicker cook and SGH is correct with his convection theory (IMO).  Only issue I found (with brisket) is I have to flip it about half way through the cook to keep bottom from toughening up in spots.

SGH

@Smoking_on_the_Deck‌- Just a note: When I do turbo ribs I run 350 degrees for 90 minutes give or take a little. When using the convection fan and all else being equal, the cook time is reduced to 75 minutes, give or take a little. A note: The affect is a little less when when using a massive water pan.

jtcBoynton

Smoke rings develop when the meat is below 140°. Since you had a very quick cook, the time the meat was below this temp was very short. Slow down the cooking speed and you will get more smoke ring.

SGH

@Smoking_on_the_Deck‌- I have a theory on smoke rings as well if you are interested,

Smoking_on_the_Deck

Sure, what is the theory?

SGH

Smoking_on_the_Deck said:

Sure, what is the theory?

Simple. You can't taste a smoke ring so I do don't get to excited over trying to obtain one.

Ladeback69

@Smoke_on_the_Deck, by using cherry wood will help with a smoke ring and if you cook more around 250 to 275 you will have a better smoke ring. Now @SGH‌ is right that you can't taste it, its an appearance thing. Have you tired cooking a brisket on the egg without a pit controller. I have done them on my WSM and my Egg and have never used a controller with success. Give it a try. If you take the time and lock in the temp before going to bed you should be good.

SGH

@Smoking_on_the_Deck‌

To some degree I was messing with you above about the smoke ring. It's rewarding to cut into a chunk of meat that you spent hours cooking and seeing that pretty ring. However on the egg I really don't fuss about it to much just because it's harder to achieve. Please no one misunderstand, I'm not saying it can't be done. It's just a little more work to achieve one versus using a offset wood fired pit. Here are a few tips to achieving a good ring. Of all the woods out there, cherry is the king of the "smoke ring". It consistently produces a more pronounced ring than any other wood. Also the colder your meat is the better at the time you load it into the smoker. I'm not going to elaborate on using Tender Quick because that's cheating. But it's certainly a option when all else fails. Here is a ring that penetrated almost a 1/2 inch deep. It was produced with the use of cherry wood only in Unit #6.

Smoking_on_the_Deck

I had read that a smoke ring really does not matter in terms of taste - but it can be a badge of honor, right?

In case the rules here are "pictures or it didn't happen", here goes....

theyolksonyou

Smoking_on_the_Deck said:

I

In case the rules here are "pictures or it didn't happen", here goes....

rule 1a. Behind don't forget to burp the egg.

looks great.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Well- laidback isn't exactly right and SGH cooked that brisket on a vertical smoker over kingsford. So all things are not as they appear ).

The Cen-Tex Smoker

The smoke ring is not a smoke ring and they are difficult to achieve in the egg without the right conditions.

This is a topic for another day...

SGH

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

SGH cooked that brisket on a vertical smoker over kingsford.

I cooked that on my Weber kettle

SGH

@Smoking_on_the_Deck‌

I would like to mention one word of caution when using cherry wood. While it is a excellent wood for smoking (my third favorite) it can and will over darken poultry skin very easily. The skin will taste fine, but it will look like crap. Most people will be hesitant to eat it. This is not much of a problem on the egg as wood use is very minimal. But on a true wood fired pit burning only cherry can and will over darken it. Just thought that I would share.