Told chicken cooks another 25 degrees while resting

DynaGlide · August 2019

So I'm at a local BBQ supply store, which I'll leave anon for now, let's just say it's very famous on this forum. I'm checking out some of the CGS accessories to see if I want to change up how I've been doing things with my R&B combo by incorporating a spider and stone to free up space on my R&B setup. The employee is very friendly and helpful, probably because I'm the only one there. Then we start talking chicken and turkey, what level to cook it on the grates, indirect, direct, spatchcock, the usual stuff. Then they tell me they cook the breast meat to 140 on a whole chicken before removing and it'll go another 25 by the time its served. This is raised direct, spatchcocked.

I decided to leave without getting into an argument since they were being so helpful and friendly but in all the meats I've cooked the 'only' cut that I've found an appreciable temperature rise in after cooking is prime rib. And in that instance it's about 10 degrees. I've learned to ignore any and all Internet and cookbook recipes that suggest pulling meat early to allow it to "continue to cook" as I believe this to be complete bs. This is in regards to the smaller stuff i.e. breasts, steaks, etc up to a few pounds. And even if it did continue to cook it'd be a few degrees at most.

I was just shocked to hear such a belief from someone who clearly knows their way around a BGE at a big name store. I'm open to being told I'm wrong but I just can't imagine how that'd be so. What say you?

fishlessman · August 2019

chicken would be very doubtful, but a big turkey cooked at say 375/400 dome, yes, especially if someone foiled it when you are not looking as it rested

Photo Egg · August 2019

Raised, direct at 400-425, I would pull around 140 internal and never look back especially if the bird was not fresh out of the fridge.
There are other factors to think about.

The actual cooking temp.
Temp of the bird when put on grill.
Size of the bird.

If you ever get the chance to watch @Mickey turbo cook ANYTHING...I know he gets a 25 degree run after it's pulled.lol

lkapigian · August 2019

it depends on how hard you are on the accelerator to get there..like a PI control with no D to hit the breaks like @Photo Egg turbo will overshoot more than say a sous vide which will not carry aver as you are cooking @ the desired target temp

JNDATHP · August 2019

I do 3lb chickens, spatchcocked regularly at 350*. Pull at 150* breast temperature and leave the probe in so as to not let the juices pour out. The temperature gets up to about 160* most of the time while it is resting.

DynaGlide · August 2019

Well guess I learned some things. I still have trouble picturing 25 degrees on a small bird. Only one way to find out. .like @JNDATHP did I'll leave a probe in next time while they rest.

Dobie · August 2019

Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat.

JethroBodeen · August 2019

lkapigian said:

it depends on how hard you are on the accelerator to get there..like a PI control with no D to hit the breaks like @Photo Egg turbo will overshoot more than say a sous vide which will not carry aver as you are cooking @ the desired target temp

A reference to a PID loop on a cooking forum! A first for me. Well played.

NPHuskerFL · August 2019

Carryover temp it's relative to outdoor ambient. If it is close to 100F outside your carryover is going to be greater than say on a 70F or 0F day. It is very subjective to the outdoor temperature. Cooking steak on a regular basis you see this. I don't find it hard to believe at all that you see this much rise in carryover temp. (25° is pushing it though)

APL had a video segment somewhere where he speaks of carryover cooking. I am paraphrasing here but basically think of it as a driving force with a ton of momentum. Once you take it off the grill and the heat is removed that momentum doesn't come to a screeching halt. And depending on the outdoor temperature that momentum can drop off quickly or have a gradual slow down. At any rate you have to think about this especially if you're trying to get a specific internal target temperature.

SmokeyPitt · August 2019

No way there is a 25 degree carry over unless you are cooking a 20 lb chicken at 500 degrees on a hot summer day.

SmokeyLopey · August 2019

Not a chicken, but was surprised to have 9° carryover on a 1 1/2" thick ribeye, cooked at 400° this evening.

Dondgc · August 2019

Dobie said:

Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat.

Do you have some references to back up the "chicken cooked to 155 for a minute" is safe?

Gulfcoastguy · August 2019

I cook chicken breast to 155F. I might risk 150F with turkey but it is bigger with more heat carryover.

Photo Egg · August 2019

Dondgc said:

Dobie said:

Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat.

Do you have some references to back up the "chicken cooked to 155 for a minute" is safe?

Once Heated, Chicken is Pasteurized at:
140°F (60.0°C) for 30 minutes
145°F (62.8°C) for 12 minutes
150°F (65.6°C) for 4 minutes

In the past the "recommended cooking times" that the US Government put out were designed to produced pasteurized food instantly. For example, at the generally recommended chicken temperature of 165°F (73.8°C) it will be pasteurized in less than a second. That short amount of time is why the government recommends it, so if a cook pulls a piece of chicken off the grill right as it hits the temperature, it'll still be safe to eat. But chicken cooked to 165°F (73.8°C) and held for one second, is just as safe as chicken cooked to 140°F (60.0°C) and held for 30 minutes.

1911Man · August 2019

I do turkey breast sections about once a week for sammich meat on my BGE (smoking them). I pull when the probe reads 165F in the thickest part. I also leave the probe in the breast so that I don't loose juices (as already mentioned). I have seen it continue to increase in temp to about 172-175F depending if I cover it in foil, or leave it uncovered. This is anything from a 6# to almost 10# section. That's also over the entire year (I bring them inside when done). Of course, I don't let the house get above about 80-85F inside in the summer and usually it's about 70F in the winter (depending). That's also when cooking the section at anything from 250-350F.

Personally, I've never seen any meat rise more than 10F once removed from the heat. I've had beef roasts (made from a tenderloin) increase about 5-7F once pulled (baked at 325F).

IMO, if someone claims a bird would increase 25F once removed from the heat, and not placed into a cooler (or something to actively trap the heat) I'd call total BS on them.

Dobie · August 2019

Photo Egg said:

Dondgc said:

Dobie said:

Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat.

Do you have some references to back up the "chicken cooked to 155 for a minute" is safe?

Once Heated, Chicken is Pasteurized at:
140°F (60.0°C) for 30 minutes
145°F (62.8°C) for 12 minutes
150°F (65.6°C) for 4 minutes
In the past the "recommended cooking times" that the US Government put out were designed to produced pasteurized food instantly. For example, at the generally recommended chicken temperature of 165°F (73.8°C) it will be pasteurized in less than a second. That short amount of time is why the government recommends it, so if a cook pulls a piece of chicken off the grill right as it hits the temperature, it'll still be safe to eat. But chicken cooked to 165°F (73.8°C) and held for one second, is just as safe as chicken cooked to 140°F (60.0°C) and held for 30 minutes.

Thank you Darian

Dondgc · August 2019

Dobie said:

Photo Egg said:

Dondgc said:

Dobie said:

Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat.

Do you have some references to back up the "chicken cooked to 155 for a minute" is safe?

Once Heated, Chicken is Pasteurized at:
140°F (60.0°C) for 30 minutes
145°F (62.8°C) for 12 minutes
150°F (65.6°C) for 4 minutes
In the past the "recommended cooking times" that the US Government put out were designed to produced pasteurized food instantly. For example, at the generally recommended chicken temperature of 165°F (73.8°C) it will be pasteurized in less than a second. That short amount of time is why the government recommends it, so if a cook pulls a piece of chicken off the grill right as it hits the temperature, it'll still be safe to eat. But chicken cooked to 165°F (73.8°C) and held for one second, is just as safe as chicken cooked to 140°F (60.0°C) and held for 30 minutes.

Thank you Darian

The skin would reach 155 and be there for some time before the internal temp reached that point. Since I assume nearly all of the bacteria is on the skin, it would seem then that by the time the internal temp reaches 155 any bacteria on the outside would certainly be dead?

Photo Egg · September 2019

Dondgc said:

Dobie said:

Photo Egg said:

Dondgc said:

Dobie said:

Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat.

Do you have some references to back up the "chicken cooked to 155 for a minute" is safe?

Once Heated, Chicken is Pasteurized at:
140°F (60.0°C) for 30 minutes
145°F (62.8°C) for 12 minutes
150°F (65.6°C) for 4 minutes
In the past the "recommended cooking times" that the US Government put out were designed to produced pasteurized food instantly. For example, at the generally recommended chicken temperature of 165°F (73.8°C) it will be pasteurized in less than a second. That short amount of time is why the government recommends it, so if a cook pulls a piece of chicken off the grill right as it hits the temperature, it'll still be safe to eat. But chicken cooked to 165°F (73.8°C) and held for one second, is just as safe as chicken cooked to 140°F (60.0°C) and held for 30 minutes.

Thank you Darian

The skin would reach 155 and be there for some time before the internal temp reached that point. Since I assume nearly all of the bacteria is on the skin, it would seem then that by the time the internal temp reaches 155 any bacteria on the outside would certainly be dead?

What about skinless chicken breast being Sous Vide?

DynaGlide · September 2019

1911Man said:

I do turkey breast sections about once a week for sammich meat on my BGE (smoking them). I pull when the probe reads 165F in the thickest part. I also leave the probe in the breast so that I don't loose juices (as already mentioned). I have seen it continue to increase in temp to about 172-175F depending if I cover it in foil, or leave it uncovered. This is anything from a 6# to almost 10# section. That's also over the entire year (I bring them inside when done). Of course, I don't let the house get above about 80-85F inside in the summer and usually it's about 70F in the winter (depending). That's also when cooking the section at anything from 250-350F.

Personally, I've never seen any meat rise more than 10F once removed from the heat. I've had beef roasts (made from a tenderloin) increase about 5-7F once pulled (baked at 325F).

IMO, if someone claims a bird would increase 25F once removed from the heat, and not placed into a cooler (or something to actively trap the heat) I'd call total BS on them.

I'm with you there.

Dondgc · September 2019

A recent episode of the new "Good Eats" touched on what @Dobie brought up about temp plus time = pasteurization. Will certainly change the way I think about (over)cooking chicken.

speed51133 · September 2019

how does a piece of meat continue to rise in temp after you remove it?

I understand that it does, and have seen it, but HOW does it happen? I mean there is no more energy being input. Where is it coming from? In what form is the energy "stored" in the meat for it to be converted to heat later??

lkapigian · September 2019

speed51133 said:

how does a piece of meat continue to rise in temp after you remove it?

I understand that it does, and have seen it, but HOW does it happen? I mean there is no more energy being input. Where is it coming from? In what form is the energy "stored" in the meat for it to be converted to heat later??

The core is rising from the heat already traveling towards the cooler area....maybe a better way of saying it is the temp is "equalizing " and becoming one temp. The larger the mass the greater the core will/can rise

NorthPilot06 · September 2019

Yeah, it's what @lkapigian said. There's a temperature gradient when you cook due to convection/radiation/conduction -- the surface of the meat is hotter than the center. That's why you always put a temperature probe into the "thickest" part of the meat; it'll be the coolest.

After you remove the meat from the cooking grid, the temperatures equalize and some of the thermal energy from the surface will migrate to the center of the meat

Zamfir · September 2019

Good stuff! Nice explanations. I will now stop removing the probe until after the meat rests! Thermal dynamics is cool! I mean....Hot! Well I guess it just keeps changing. Till it don’t.

speed51133 · September 2019

ok, I got it!! so only thick cuts will noticeably do this. A thin cut skirt would hardly show any temp rise, right?

lousubcap · September 2019

Search for 1/2 inch steak cooks here and you will get quite a lesson on thin cuts.

YukonRon · September 2019

lousubcap said:

Search for 1/2 inch steak cooks here and you will get quite a lesson on thin cuts.

@lousubcap

Stir that pot a little more.....some on the sides are not burnt enough yet.

Told chicken cooks another 25 degrees while resting

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