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Told chicken cooks another 25 degrees while resting

DynaGlideDynaGlide Posts: 54
edited August 28 in EggHead Forum
So I'm at a local BBQ supply store, which I'll leave anon for now, let's just say it's very famous on this forum. I'm checking out some of the CGS accessories to see if I want to change up how I've been doing things with my R&B combo by incorporating a spider and stone to free up space on my R&B setup. The employee is very friendly and helpful, probably because I'm the only one there. Then we start talking chicken and turkey, what level to cook it on the grates, indirect, direct, spatchcock, the usual stuff. Then they tell me they cook the breast meat to 140 on a whole chicken before removing and it'll go another 25 by the time its served. This is raised direct, spatchcocked.

I decided to leave without getting into an argument since they were being so helpful and friendly but in all the meats I've cooked the 'only' cut that I've found an appreciable temperature rise in after cooking is prime rib. And in that instance it's about 10 degrees. I've learned to ignore any and all Internet and cookbook recipes that suggest pulling meat early to allow it to "continue to cook" as I believe this to be complete bs. This is in regards to the smaller stuff i.e. breasts, steaks, etc up to a few pounds. And even if it did continue to cook it'd be a few degrees at most.

I was just shocked to hear such a belief from someone who clearly knows their way around a BGE at a big name store. I'm open to being told I'm wrong but I just can't imagine how that'd be so. What say you?
2006 Blue Weber Performer Slow n' Sear and Rotisserie; LG BGE w/ AR R&B -- Alexandria, VA

Comments

  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 25,040
    chicken would be very doubtful, but a big turkey cooked at say 375/400 dome, yes, especially if someone foiled it when you are not looking as it rested
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 9,478
    edited August 28
    Raised, direct at 400-425, I would pull around 140 internal and never look back especially if the bird was not fresh out of the fridge.
    There are other factors to think about.

    The actual cooking temp.
    Temp of the bird when put on grill.
    Size of the bird.

    If you ever get the chance to watch @Mickey turbo cook ANYTHING...I know he gets a 25 degree run after it's pulled.lol

    Thank you,
    Darian

    Galveston Texas
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 5,386
    it depends on how hard you are on the accelerator to get there..like a PI control with no D to hit the breaks  like @Photo Egg turbo will overshoot more than say a sous vide which will not carry aver as you are cooking @ the desired target temp
    Visalia, Ca
  • JNDATHPJNDATHP Posts: 392
    I do 3lb chickens, spatchcocked regularly at 350*. Pull at 150* breast temperature and leave the probe in so as to not let the juices pour out. The temperature gets up to about 160* most of the time while it is resting. 
    Michael
    Large BGE
    Reno, NV
  • DynaGlideDynaGlide Posts: 54
    Well guess I learned some things. I still have trouble picturing 25 degrees on a small bird. Only one way to find out. .like @JNDATHP did I'll leave a probe in next time while they rest.
    2006 Blue Weber Performer Slow n' Sear and Rotisserie; LG BGE w/ AR R&B -- Alexandria, VA

  • DobieDobie Posts: 2,858
    Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat. 
    Jacksonville FL
  • lkapigian said:
    it depends on how hard you are on the accelerator to get there..like a PI control with no D to hit the breaks  like @Photo Egg turbo will overshoot more than say a sous vide which will not carry aver as you are cooking @ the desired target temp
    A reference to a PID loop on a cooking forum! A first for me. Well played.
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,491
    edited August 30
    Carryover temp it's relative to outdoor ambient. If it is close to 100F outside your carryover is going to be greater than say on a 70F or 0F day.  It is very subjective to the outdoor temperature. Cooking steak on a regular basis you see this. I don't find it hard to believe at all that you see this much rise in carryover temp. (25° is pushing it though)

    APL had a video segment somewhere where he speaks of carryover cooking. I am paraphrasing here but basically think of it as a driving force with a ton of momentum. Once you take it off the grill and the heat is removed that momentum doesn't come to a screeching halt. And depending on the outdoor temperature that momentum can drop off quickly or have a gradual slow down. At any rate you have to think about this especially if you're trying to get a specific internal target temperature.
    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
  • SmokeyPittSmokeyPitt Posts: 10,308
    No way there is a 25 degree carry over unless you are cooking a 20 lb chicken at 500 degrees on a hot summer day.  =)


    Which came first the chicken or the egg?  I egged the chicken and then I ate his leg. 

  • SmokeyLopeySmokeyLopey Posts: 220
    Not a chicken, but was surprised to have 9° carryover on a 1 1/2" thick ribeye, cooked at 400° this evening.
  • DondgcDondgc Posts: 468
    Dobie said:
    Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat. 
    Do you have some references to back up the "chicken cooked to 155 for a minute" is safe? 
    New Orleans LA
  • GulfcoastguyGulfcoastguy Posts: 2,498
    I cook chicken breast to 155F. I might risk 150F with turkey but it is bigger with more heat carryover.
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 9,478
    Dondgc said:
    Dobie said:
    Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat. 
    Do you have some references to back up the "chicken cooked to 155 for a minute" is safe? 
    • Once Heated, Chicken is Pasteurized at:
    • 140°F (60.0°C) for 30 minutes
    • 145°F (62.8°C) for 12 minutes
    • 150°F (65.6°C) for 4 minutes

    In the past the "recommended cooking times" that the US Government put out were designed to produced pasteurized food instantly. For example, at the generally recommended chicken temperature of 165°F (73.8°C) it will be pasteurized in less than a second. That short amount of time is why the government recommends it, so if a cook pulls a piece of chicken off the grill right as it hits the temperature, it'll still be safe to eat. But chicken cooked to 165°F (73.8°C) and held for one second, is just as safe as chicken cooked to 140°F (60.0°C) and held for 30 minutes.

    Thank you,
    Darian

    Galveston Texas
  • 1911Man1911Man Posts: 232
    I do turkey breast sections about once a week for sammich meat on my BGE (smoking them). I pull when the probe reads 165F in the thickest part. I also leave the probe in the breast so that I don't loose juices (as already mentioned). I have seen it continue to increase in temp to about 172-175F depending if I cover it in foil, or leave it uncovered. This is anything from a 6# to almost 10# section. That's also over the entire year (I bring them inside when done). Of course, I don't let the house get above about 80-85F inside in the summer and usually it's about 70F in the winter (depending). That's also when cooking the section at anything from 250-350F. 

    Personally, I've never seen any meat rise more than 10F once removed from the heat. I've had beef roasts (made from a tenderloin) increase about 5-7F once pulled (baked at 325F).

    IMO, if someone claims a bird would increase 25F once removed from the heat, and not placed into a cooler (or something to actively trap the heat) I'd call total BS on them.
    Egg #1: Medium BGE with CGS Woo Ring, stone with stainless pan and Smokeware chimney cap.
    Living free in the 603 (Pelham).
  • DobieDobie Posts: 2,858
    Photo Egg said:
    Dondgc said:
    Dobie said:
    Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat. 
    Do you have some references to back up the "chicken cooked to 155 for a minute" is safe? 
    • Once Heated, Chicken is Pasteurized at:
    • 140°F (60.0°C) for 30 minutes
    • 145°F (62.8°C) for 12 minutes
    • 150°F (65.6°C) for 4 minutes

    In the past the "recommended cooking times" that the US Government put out were designed to produced pasteurized food instantly. For example, at the generally recommended chicken temperature of 165°F (73.8°C) it will be pasteurized in less than a second. That short amount of time is why the government recommends it, so if a cook pulls a piece of chicken off the grill right as it hits the temperature, it'll still be safe to eat. But chicken cooked to 165°F (73.8°C) and held for one second, is just as safe as chicken cooked to 140°F (60.0°C) and held for 30 minutes.

    Thank you Darian


    Jacksonville FL
  • DondgcDondgc Posts: 468
    Dobie said:
    Photo Egg said:
    Dondgc said:
    Dobie said:
    Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat. 
    Do you have some references to back up the "chicken cooked to 155 for a minute" is safe? 
    • Once Heated, Chicken is Pasteurized at:
    • 140°F (60.0°C) for 30 minutes
    • 145°F (62.8°C) for 12 minutes
    • 150°F (65.6°C) for 4 minutes

    In the past the "recommended cooking times" that the US Government put out were designed to produced pasteurized food instantly. For example, at the generally recommended chicken temperature of 165°F (73.8°C) it will be pasteurized in less than a second. That short amount of time is why the government recommends it, so if a cook pulls a piece of chicken off the grill right as it hits the temperature, it'll still be safe to eat. But chicken cooked to 165°F (73.8°C) and held for one second, is just as safe as chicken cooked to 140°F (60.0°C) and held for 30 minutes.

    Thank you Darian


    The skin would reach 155 and be there for some time before the internal temp reached that point. Since I assume nearly all of the bacteria is on the skin, it would seem then that by the time the internal temp reaches 155 any bacteria on the outside would certainly be dead? 
    New Orleans LA
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 9,478
    Dondgc said:
    Dobie said:
    Photo Egg said:
    Dondgc said:
    Dobie said:
    Carry over cooking is very real. And you never have to get to 165 either. At 165 the bad stuff is dead instantly, at 155 takes about a minute. I’m pulling around 150 on white meat. 
    Do you have some references to back up the "chicken cooked to 155 for a minute" is safe? 
    • Once Heated, Chicken is Pasteurized at:
    • 140°F (60.0°C) for 30 minutes
    • 145°F (62.8°C) for 12 minutes
    • 150°F (65.6°C) for 4 minutes

    In the past the "recommended cooking times" that the US Government put out were designed to produced pasteurized food instantly. For example, at the generally recommended chicken temperature of 165°F (73.8°C) it will be pasteurized in less than a second. That short amount of time is why the government recommends it, so if a cook pulls a piece of chicken off the grill right as it hits the temperature, it'll still be safe to eat. But chicken cooked to 165°F (73.8°C) and held for one second, is just as safe as chicken cooked to 140°F (60.0°C) and held for 30 minutes.

    Thank you Darian


    The skin would reach 155 and be there for some time before the internal temp reached that point. Since I assume nearly all of the bacteria is on the skin, it would seem then that by the time the internal temp reaches 155 any bacteria on the outside would certainly be dead? 
    What about skinless chicken breast being Sous Vide?
    Thank you,
    Darian

    Galveston Texas
  • 1911Man said:
    I do turkey breast sections about once a week for sammich meat on my BGE (smoking them). I pull when the probe reads 165F in the thickest part. I also leave the probe in the breast so that I don't loose juices (as already mentioned). I have seen it continue to increase in temp to about 172-175F depending if I cover it in foil, or leave it uncovered. This is anything from a 6# to almost 10# section. That's also over the entire year (I bring them inside when done). Of course, I don't let the house get above about 80-85F inside in the summer and usually it's about 70F in the winter (depending). That's also when cooking the section at anything from 250-350F. 

    Personally, I've never seen any meat rise more than 10F once removed from the heat. I've had beef roasts (made from a tenderloin) increase about 5-7F once pulled (baked at 325F).

    IMO, if someone claims a bird would increase 25F once removed from the heat, and not placed into a cooler (or something to actively trap the heat) I'd call total BS on them.
    I'm with you there.
    2006 Blue Weber Performer Slow n' Sear and Rotisserie; LG BGE w/ AR R&B -- Alexandria, VA

  • DondgcDondgc Posts: 468
    A recent episode of the new "Good Eats" touched on what @Dobie brought up about temp plus time = pasteurization. Will certainly change the way I think about (over)cooking chicken. 
    New Orleans LA
  • speed51133speed51133 Posts: 152
    how does a piece of meat continue to rise in temp after you remove it?

    I understand that it does, and have seen it, but HOW does it happen? I mean there is no more energy being input. Where is it coming from? In what form is the energy "stored" in the meat for it to be converted to heat later??


  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 5,386
    how does a piece of meat continue to rise in temp after you remove it?

    I understand that it does, and have seen it, but HOW does it happen? I mean there is no more energy being input. Where is it coming from? In what form is the energy "stored" in the meat for it to be converted to heat later??


    The core is rising from the  heat already traveling towards the cooler area....maybe a better way of saying it is the temp is "equalizing "  and becoming one temp. The larger the mass the greater the core will/can rise
    Visalia, Ca
  • Yeah, it's what @lkapigian said.  There's a temperature gradient when you cook due to convection/radiation/conduction --  the surface of the meat is hotter than the center.  That's why you always put a temperature probe into the "thickest" part of the meat; it'll be the coolest.

    After you remove the meat from the cooking grid, the temperatures equalize and some of the thermal energy from the surface will migrate to the center of the meat
    DFW - 1 LGBE & Happy to Adopt More...
  • ZamfirZamfir Posts: 13
    Good stuff!  Nice explanations.   I will now stop removing the probe until after the meat rests!  Thermal dynamics is cool!  I mean....Hot! Well I guess it just keeps changing. Till it don’t. 
  • speed51133speed51133 Posts: 152
    ok, I got it!! so only thick cuts will noticeably do this. A thin cut skirt would hardly show any temp rise, right?
  • lousubcaplousubcap Posts: 20,039
    Search for 1/2 inch steak cooks here and you will get quite a lesson on thin cuts.  B)  
    Louisville;  "indeterminate Jim" here; L & S BGEs, PBC, Lang 36; Burnin' wood in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer.  
  • YukonRonYukonRon Posts: 14,337
    lousubcap said:
    Search for 1/2 inch steak cooks here and you will get quite a lesson on thin cuts.  B)  
    @lousubcap

    Stir that pot a little more.....some on the sides are not burnt enough yet. =)
    "Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

    XL and MM
    Louisville, Kentucky
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