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Opened my last bag of Fogo
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Yno
Posts: 529
I know I am in trouble for posting this, but what the heck, I have a thick hide. Can anyone give me an unbiased comparison between Fogo and Rockwood as far as flavor is concerned? I keep hearing that Rockwood is very neutral, but the the reason I have a BGE is to get that charcoal flavor. If I wanted neutral, I could just fire up the gasser. And yes, I know about adding wood chunks - I have a couple of pails of different types.
Rockwood has just become legal in the nanny state of California, where you can smoke dope but everything else causes cancer (Prop 65 stupidity). I have not seen it in stock yet, so I may have to order it. Some of its advantages are that it is marginally less expensive, is American made, and is a forum favorite. It may not have as many Yuge pieces as Fogo, but even with an XL I have to break some of them up.
I purposely did not post this on a Friday night, although since many people are off for the holidays, this may not help much. And I would be more than happy to hear from @stlcharcoal on this subject. Even if you do own the company, your knowledge is respected and your honesty I take for granted based on my eggsperience here.
Let the games begin!
Rockwood has just become legal in the nanny state of California, where you can smoke dope but everything else causes cancer (Prop 65 stupidity). I have not seen it in stock yet, so I may have to order it. Some of its advantages are that it is marginally less expensive, is American made, and is a forum favorite. It may not have as many Yuge pieces as Fogo, but even with an XL I have to break some of them up.
I purposely did not post this on a Friday night, although since many people are off for the holidays, this may not help much. And I would be more than happy to hear from @stlcharcoal on this subject. Even if you do own the company, your knowledge is respected and your honesty I take for granted based on my eggsperience here.
Let the games begin!
XL BGE in San Jose, CA. Also a Pit Barrel Cooker, a Cal Flame P4 gasser, and lots of toys including the first ever Flame Boss 300 in the wild. And a new Flame Boss 500.
Comments
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You're going to get some different responses so my advice is to give it a try and go with whatever floats your boat. Both are very good. I like Fogo, but not nearly as much as some on here. If price is similar, it's Rockwood every time for me.Stillwater, MN
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And I would be more than happy to hear from @stlcharcoal on this subject. Even if you do own the company, your knowledge is respected and your honesty I take for granted based on my eggsperience here.
Oh wait, you wanted my knowledge, not opinion. :P
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Well, gee, @stlcharcoal that sure makes me feel better! I am going to buy some Rockwood, as the only really important opinion (and one that is right 101% of the time) is mine! And Ynette's, of course, but she doesn't look at the minutiae of the process like I do.
XL BGE in San Jose, CA. Also a Pit Barrel Cooker, a Cal Flame P4 gasser, and lots of toys including the first ever Flame Boss 300 in the wild. And a new Flame Boss 500. -
It’s just lump. Try a bag of RW and see if you like it. There’s no long term commitment; It’s not like you’re buying a car or something...
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Disclaimer - This is only my opinion
Here's my breakdown between Fogo, Rockwood, OO and other premium lumps I've tried......
.....I can't taste a difference.
Once you get into the premium lump tier, I just can't tell the difference. OO is no longer available and Fogo is uber-pricey. For those reasons, I opt for Rockwood. Don't get me wrong, I genuinely like the product. But, pricing and availability matters too.
Side bar: When KJ comes to town with Costco's roadshow, I load up on their lump. High quality and relatively inexpensive for premium lump. $21/30 lb bag
XL & MM BGE, 36" Blackstone - Newport News, VA -
Cowboy lump is not neutral.Large, Medium, MiniMax, & 22, and 36" Blackstone
Grand Rapids MI -
For me, Rockwood being "neutral" is for the smoke profile. Food still tastes like it was cooked over charcoal. It doesn't have a bias towards certain smoking wood, like Royal Oak can with hickory/oak or mesquite lump can. That is what makes it neutral and in no way does it compare to cooking on a gas grill.
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Some solid comments above, definitely outside the Friday profile. As you note, try it and go from there.Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win. Life is too short for light/lite beer! Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
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Yno said:the reason I have a BGE is to get that charcoal flavor. If I wanted neutral, I could just fire up the gasser. And yes, I know about adding wood chunks - I have a couple of pails of different types.
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FOGO is great stuff. Amazon.ca had large bags for <$1/pound CDN a few years ago, bought three before they raised the price to >$4/pound CDN.
No Rockwood up here, but I have burned a couple of bags I picked up in the USA. Still for $18 for 8Kg (about $14US), Maple Leaf is pretty hard to beat.Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad! -
@johnnyp nailed it. Not much difference IMO. Also, basque maple leaf is good if you can get it. At that point it's availability and price.
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Skiddymarker said:FOGO is great stuff. Amazon.ca had large bags for <$1/pound CDN a few years ago, bought three before they raised the price to >$4/pound CDN.
No Rockwood up here, but I have burned a couple of bags I picked up in the USA. Still for $18 for 8Kg (about $14US), Maple Leaf is pretty hard to beat.
http://www.dicksonbbq.com/fogo-super-premium-charcoal.html
canuckland -
Alright I'm back......I was busy earlier and didn't have time to write a serious reply.
A few things about US made charcoal vs. the south of the border stuff. It all has to do with the process which is ultimately regulated by the government. You don't have OSHA, the EPA, the DNR, minimum wage, etc down south.
Basically you're not going to be allowed to harvest a tree in the US for charcoal. Not because the government won't let you, but because of the cost. Because of all the rules and regs, wood is worth a lot more as lumber than it is charcoal......and 6# of wood makes 1# of charcoal. So, all the charcoal industry can get is the scraps (the pieces too knotty, warped, or short for lumber.
Next, the EPA make you burn the smoke to 1500F to incinerate any particulate. So you'll only see clear "smoke" coming off a US charcoal plant. White smoke means a BIG fine. The cost of propane to get it to that temperature is not cheap, nor is the system to maintain it. Missouri is the #1 charcoal producing state in the country and had always fought off these regs......well until the governor's brother sold his charcoal plant, then they were regulate in MO. That's when about half the plants closed. The other half that made the upgrades, and within a year or two, half of those closed.
So, based off those two factors, this is also why you don't see huge chunks of US made charcoal--because the pieces we start with aren't that big to begin with. Then, with the constant draw of the smoke burner, the charcoal burns hot/fast. So with big chunks, it's tough to get them carbonized all the way through. Just like a pork butt, if you want to get to a constant temp all the way through without overcooking (or over-carbonization, thus burning the carbon), then it has to be low and slow. Can't do that in the US.
When you don't have those two governing forces, you can use dirt cheap labor, clear cut any tree in your path, belch out tons of particulate into the atmosphere, then your cost of manufacturing is near nothing. You're burning the wood itself to make charcoal--that's it! They can ship thousands of miles and it's still cheaper, that's why.
As far as the charcoal itself goes, most of the trees down there are some sort of super dense wood like astronium, garrapa, etc......Brazilian walnut or cashew. That's what my deck is made out of: TigerDeck = Brazilian cashew. Hard as a rock. The density doesn't make it burn any longer or differently if it's the same BTU/#. The only thing that changes is that it's a higher BTU/volume. Charcoal is sold by weight, so 20# of it is going to be smaller in physical size than our 20# bag. But if it has the same carbonization, then it's the same amount of BTU/# which is what's important.
The thing is, some people confuse "dense charcoal" for underkilned charcoal. I can hand you a piece of wood charred on the outside and it's "heavy and dense"......because still full of water and NOT "charcoal." Easiest test, try to break it apart by hand or drop it on the ground. If it comes apart, then it's probably at least 80% carbon. If you hear the metallic sound and don't see a bunch of white smoke for 20-30+ minutes on startup, then it's charcoal. Otherwise, if it doesn't break or goes "thud", you have "charred wood".
Building on that......if you have undercarbonized wood that of the walnut, cashew, or some other dense species, that stuff is BITTER. It has uses, but not many. On the other had, with US made hardwood charcoal, you're getting oak, hickory, maple, pecan, etc. So if you do happen to have some undercarbonized charcoal in the bag, or just are burning through those remaining tars/liquors in the charcoal, you're getting a smoke that is already used in American style BBQ. No one is going to complain about a little oak or hickory flavor in the background......but they will taste walnut. Ours is primarily oak, since that's mostly what comes out of the Mark Twain Forest, but there's a little of the hickory, maple, pecan, etc. No walnut--we couldn't afford it anyway!!
On the "why do I want a neutral charcoal rather than gas" argument...... C'mon, the BGE is a far better cooker than gas with ANY charcoal. Gas grills are very drafty and despite what they say, you can't smoke anything. If you do, all the moisture is gone. The flare ups are crazy--it's a amateur's grill. On charcoal, that's fine if you like smokey charcoal and food. Some people love that, others don't. They want a light taste, but not overpowering. Pork butts repels a lot of smoke, but poultry and fish suck it up like a sponge. If you're trying to really impart a light wood like apple, peach, alder into a piece of fish and taste it, those flavors are easily going to be overpowered by the oak, hickory, or whatever is in an undercarbonized charcoal. Charcoal is [ideally] a fuel, not a taste. So ours is set up to be as neutral as possible, imparting only the minimum taste, allowing you to control the flavor profile and intensity of the smoke.
In doing that, we make a very brittle charcoal. 80-85% carbon makes it the Lay's Potato chip of the charcoal world. Every time you move the bag it breaks down a little. But just like the chips, it's all still the same. The fines are useable. Use them to top dress a charcoal pile, pour them around the side.....they're still 11,500+ BTU/# and will burn when the heat and O2 hit them. Otherwise dump them in the garden, compost pile, or in the yard. We sell the fines for that purpose (and animal feed & other industrial/manufacturing uses), so it's not like we're trying to pawn them off on anyone.
I'll sum it up by reiterating that I don't think we're better than anyone else.....that's just how I see it. I'm selfish and that's how I wanted the charcoal for my BGE. So if you're like me, you'll like ours better. If you don't like it, then I'm here to listen why. It's an all natural product, so every bag is different--try a couple bags of each and make your decision. "Different smokes for different folks" is what it comes down to.
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Thanks for this. I used a SA product for years and loved it. My supplier closed, and I ordered Rockport when shipping started. Because of the concerns you voiced, I'll never go back.*******Owner of a large and a beloved mini in Philadelphia
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@stlcharcoal - thanks for the insights into the industry. Very informative and enjoyable read. As I mentioned in another thread, learn something new here dang near every day.Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win. Life is too short for light/lite beer! Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
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Stlcharcoal - Great stuff! Thanks for all the knowledge you bring to this wonderful site and for producing a marvelous product.Stillwater, MN
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That was an excellent write up. Rockwood for me for 3 reasons. First, it is the best out there in my opinion. Second, it is 100% American Made. Last, they are an small business and we should always help to keep them moving forward. I run 2 different small business and appreciate all the business I can get and I am sure Rockwood does as well. ThanksLarge, Med and a Yoder YS480 . 1 Beautiful Wife, 2 Dogs and always looking for a MM
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sticharcoal, really interesting and informative response...made me proud that yesterday I bought bag 3 and 4 of rockwood ..actually ordered it ...at babes hardware in Venice Florida (not Italy)... Bringing a bag up to a fellow egg person in the frozen tundra of western North Carolina.happy new year to u and family!Sarasota Fl. and Lake Toxaway N.C. (and Novembers on the island of Kauai) (and April in France.... Don't hate on me for that)
BGE medium and minimax
HOW BOUT THEM GATORS ! -
@Bowne1 - Welcome aboard and enjoy the journey. Above all, have fun.
What hasn't been said here is that in addition to being active and extremely helpful on the forum @stlcharcoal is a great ambassador for his company and forum charcoal knowledge provider.
When Firecraft changed their business model a few months back and exited the mail order lump charcoal delivery business, Rockwood stepped up and is now directly providing that order fulfillment. I am always one to try a new product to see how I like it but I keep a few hundred pounds of Rockwood around as the main-stay. (My snow storm bread and milk equivalent I guess-but it doesn't spoil FWIW-
No affiliation here.
Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win. Life is too short for light/lite beer! Seems I'm livin in a transitional period. -
I had very good luck with Fogo until the last bag I purchased in early December from Amazon. It was very smoky with a terrible off-flavor. I thought that it might be fire management, but I had the same problems on my medium BGE and a KJ Classic. When I replaced it with Rockwood, there were no problems. It appears that I got a bad bag of Fogo. I will probably try again, as I did not have any previous problems and the lump sizes were quite large. My first purchase of Rockwood was the last bag in the store and the lump sizes were very small. By the end of a 5-hour cook in the KJ Classic (equivalent to a large BGE), there was not enough left to maintain a temperature of 300 for a turbo-butt. Had to move it inside to foil in the oven. On the plus side, the Rockwood did give a nice clean burn without any off-taste.
Weber Kettle, Weber Genesis Silver B, Medium Egg, KJ Classic (Black) -
After reading the above article about south of the border lump, I thought I would share my 2 cents worth. I burn Jealous Devil Paraguay axe breaker lump. Why? Because it rocks Rockwood and any other USA lump. Its super hard, does NOT break apart if you drop it, its not full of water, & its not uncarbonized. Burns hotter than any USA lump and longer. Its made in hand built brick kilns. Just like it's been done for 1000's of years. So if that's bad then I guess I'm bad. It also has a unique smell that I love. It ships out of CA. Give it a shot and see if I am right. You be the judge. If regulations are too strict here then maybe its time to move south. If you cant beat them, join them.
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ROlin said:After reading the above article about south of the border lump, I thought I would share my 2 cents worth. I burn Jealous Devil Paraguay axe breaker lump. Why? Because it rocks Rockwood and any other USA lump. Its super hard, does NOT break apart if you drop it, its not full of water, & its not uncarbonized. Burns hotter than any USA lump and longer. Its made in hand built brick kilns. Just like it's been done for 1000's of years. So if that's bad then I guess I'm bad. It also has a unique smell that I love. It ships out of CA. Give it a shot and see if I am right. You be the judge. If regulations are too strict here then maybe its time to move south. If you cant beat them, join them.
Glad you like their product. Did you get a free bag by leaving them a 5-star review on Amazon?
JD promotional email from 1/27/17......
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stlcharcoal said:ROlin said:After reading the above article about south of the border lump, I thought I would share my 2 cents worth. I burn Jealous Devil Paraguay axe breaker lump. Why? Because it rocks Rockwood and any other USA lump. Its super hard, does NOT break apart if you drop it, its not full of water, & its not uncarbonized. Burns hotter than any USA lump and longer. Its made in hand built brick kilns. Just like it's been done for 1000's of years. So if that's bad then I guess I'm bad. It also has a unique smell that I love. It ships out of CA. Give it a shot and see if I am right. You be the judge. If regulations are too strict here then maybe its time to move south. If you cant beat them, join them.
Glad you like their product. Did you get a free bag by leaving them a 5-star review on Amazon?
JD promotional email from 1/27/17......
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ROlin said:Burns hotter than any USA lump and longer.Stillwater, MN
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I’d love to have a beer with you guys and have @stlcharcoal be the keynote speaker.
The gang at work got me me a bag of jealous devil for my birthday. Now I’m even more intrigued than before to try it out!
im down to my last bag of Rockwood...Large BGE and Medium BGE
36" Blackstone - Greensboro! -
That dude has an agenda. I’m betting he’s in bed with the lump he’s pushing.
3 comments. 1 was a RW neg. the other 2 were pro jealous devil.
Personally, I don’t appreciate the bullsh!t.XL & MM BGE, 36" Blackstone - Newport News, VA -
Skiddymarker said:FOGO is great stuff. Amazon.ca had large bags for <$1/pound CDN a few years ago, bought three before they raised the price to >$4/pound CDN.
No Rockwood up here, but I have burned a couple of bags I picked up in the USA. Still for $18 for 8Kg (about $14US), Maple Leaf is pretty hard to beat.
@Skiddymarker My folks just arrived for the winter, and I'd asked my dad to bring me a bag of the Maple Leaf. I've only tried it once, but it seemed like high quality, clean burning lump. Very neutral and comparable to Rockwood. Sparked a little more on start up, but not significantly.
Interestingly enough, high quality lump is the one thing I've found that is cheaper in Canada vs. the US. On everything else, you guys seem to get the shaft.Phoenix -
blasting said:
Interestingly enough, high quality lump is the one thing I've found that is cheaper in Canada vs. the US. On everything else, you guys seem to get the shaft.
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MaskedMarvel said:I’d love to have a beer with you guys and have @stlcharcoal be the keynote speaker.
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